The same old lies and Christian dribble

sent in by Jim T

Before I start I just want to let everyone know who has posted a comment or testimony by saying that you have really helped me sort out a lot of the thoughts and questions running through my mind. I think my testimony is similar to many others in here and I would like to share it with everyone.

First let me give you a little background to my story. I guess I can begin my story at about 6 years old. My family and I were living in a suburb outside of Detroit called Pontiac which many of you will be familiar with from the car. It was me, my mom, my brother, and my dad. Everything was going fine until my dad decided he wanted more out of life and struggling with his own personal issues succumbed to the bar life and drugs. Well, my mom was not too thrilled with my dad's new habits and after two years of fighting and arguing and not to mention my dad living a destructive lifestyle, my mother finally divorced him. After the divorce, my mother who had always had a bit of a feisty side to her decided she did not want her kids to sit around and watch their dad destroy his life and theirs any longer. So one day my mom pulled out a map and asked my brother and I where we wanted to move to. I said Arizona and my brother said San Diego. We moved to San Diego. Four Years after some great experiences and meeting some great friends we turned back around and moved to Pittsburgh mainly because my brother was drinking heavily and using drugs.

My grandparents had retired from GM and my mom of course wanted to be closer to them so that's why we moved here to Pittsburgh where I met my first girlfriend at the age of 15. Little did I know that she was a Christian which probably would not have bothered me anyway. Her father was basically an assistant pastor at a neighborhood church. He was a very nice guy and I always thought the world of him because he was so humble and so nice. He just seemed like he had great aura to him. Everyone thought that of him. He just had a real nice way about him. My girlfriend and I of course like teenagers do fell in love with each other which led to us basically having sex almost everyday. Shortly into our relationship when I was 15 and her being 17 was invited to a church summer camp which was held by a local church district in western Pennsylvania (at a very nice campsite in New Castle PA). It basically turned out to be an eye opening experience. I remember being memorized by all the kids there who just seemed like they loved God so much. Being the kind person I am which is generally good natured I thought it was the most awesome thing I had ever seen. A few days later during one of the evening services I of course went to the front to receive Jesus as my Lord and Savior which to this day still has an emotional affect on me when I talk about it. At that time in my life I was a very emotional and impressionable young guy. I remember how great I thought it would be to belong to such a great group of people a "family". I was beyond excited which a lot of people probably reading this can relate to. I felt great. To this day I still get emotional talking about the experience because I remember all the feelings I had experienced when I made this decision to become a born again Christian and accept Jesus into my heart.

After camp my girlfriend and I came home and of course continued to have sex even having sex one time in the church basement which to this day I'm not proud of. Her being the Christian youth leader basically ate away at our "Christian conscience" and I ended up breaking off the relationship which after three years was hard.

After that being the great Christian I thought I was and wanted to be I went to study God's word at a Christian University in Lynchburg VA. Take a wild guess at whose college that was. If you guessed Jerry's you get the prize. After about a year and a half and some terrible experiences I decided to come home. To make a long story short I eventually found my way out of Christianity. I like many others in here studied Christian apologetics. While studying apologetics I pretty much read every Christian theologian and book you could possibly name. Being the free thinker I thought I was read a book called The Case Against Christianity by Michael Martin. I thought it was a great book. Hearing the Christian responses to this book probably threw me over the edge. It was the same old lies and Christian dribble that gets force fed down every Christian's throat. After a while the contradictions and lies became too much to swallow just like anyone else who has actually studied the facts knows. I just could not do it any longer. I like many others on this site decided to just walk away from it after ten years at the age of 25. Today being 29 years old with a four year old son, working two jobs I'm a little grateful and a little bitter about my Christian experience. I felt like I should have went to a technical school and could have gotten a good trade or something instead of putting so much energy into chasing after a false hope which was never there.


Anonymous said...

Hi, i have been a lurker here for a while and sort of shy, but after reading your letter i just wanted to tell you that i am from Western PA also, a town call Rochester, we are really close to New Castle.

This site is very interesting i found it when my Husband and his Family got deep into Christianty and tried like heck to get me in their church. Its a long story but he is out of the relegion now for a year and he is back to himself. (NORMAL)

One of these days i will post my experience i had with this cult like church i have been finding out all different things about this place.

Glad you are out of it and take care.

Anonymous said...

Hi Jim..
Heehee.. I usually don't post comments on other people's blogs (okay, to be honest, this is my first time), but I was really moved by your story. It's a sad one, but extremely honest, and I think that's why I felt compelled to leave this comment. I have to admit, I'm a Christian (I'm sorry) and a medical student in Canada. Feel free to delete this comment after you read it or don't even read it.. =) I'm sure I'll get a lot of hate comments after this.. But I think maybe some things defy logic. Yeah, maybe I'm being fed "the same old lies and Christian dribble", but I also believe that the human mind has limitations to what it can understand. Some things are not meant to be rationalized. I have to admit that there are many times I felt that I was being a fool for chasing after a blind faith. There's enough proof out there that God doesn't exist. But I always came back in the end, because there's a God-shaped void and an endogenous feeling that there is something more than just hard facts and figures. They don't mean anything to me. My beliefs mean all the world to me.. maybe it's giving me a false hope, but at least it's hope. And hope is all that's keeping me from killing myself. Lol~

p.s. I hope you don't blame Christianity for the choices YOU made in life. =)


Anonymous said...

Hi anonymous,

I love your honesty. It sounds like you really love your faith even if it doesn't make a whole lot of sense. I understand how you feel; I felt the same way for many years, until I could no longer add things up and the incongruence of the belief system didn't fit in my brain anymore.

I found out that I don't need to believe incomprehensible things to have a Higher Power. I can still trust that a power greater than myself nurtures my soul, but this power doesn't have the angry and bitter attributes of bible-god.

He/She/It makes a lot of sense to me, and I don't have to do any mental gymnastics to feel connected. It doesn't control my every movement and it doesn't demand adoration and complete obedience. It gives me freedom to be who I want to (can) be.

So no, a fulfilling spiritual experience is not limited to those who believe in bible-god.

All the best to you,


Debbie said...

I was searching for another blog when I came upon yours and I knew I had to comment. I have been a christian now for over 15 years. I also accepted the Lord Jesus as my savior. Has everything been perfect? I perfect,? NO....but I try. Is that justification for sin? NO!!! You mentioned that people that were supposed to be christians and leaders (i.e. girlfriend) that failed to keep the standard. Is that unusual? No...we see it all the time....does that change the Bible or it's truths? is still the same. Does the fact that people let down the standard take away the deity of Christ? Absolutely Not!! He is still God. He has given us a free will. You also stated that you still get emotional when you talk about accepting Jesus.....of course you do because it is an emotional experience. It is real and Life changing....well then, you may ask, why hasn't it changed people, why do they still sin and carry on as if nothing happened? The Main reason is that most of these type people only had the "head acceptance" and not the "heart" as YOU DID!! When you truly have the encounter with Jesus, you know it and you change. No...not perfect, but you don't want to do anything to jeopardize your relationship with Jesus. Or Maybe I should say that you don't want to do anything that would dissapoint Him. The reason you felt guilty is because Jesus in you, was letting you know that certain things were wrong and that is why you were not comfortable to do those things. There was absolutely nothing wrong with you! You truly were born again. That is something special that a lot of people proclaim, but as I said before, they did not ever truly submit to God when they were called...they only confessed with their mouth and never allowed Jesus in their heart. That is so sad, there are a lot of good people that struggle needlessly. Are there hypocrites? Of course there are plenty. These are the people that know exactly what they are doing and continue never taking the time to count the cost. Does this relieve us of our responsibility to live right before God? No....when you experience Christ for real, you will never be the same. Are there cults out there? Yes, but again when Jesus is in your heart, He will lead you to all truth. That is why we need to stay in contact with Him through daily prayer. The Point of my response to your blog is this...I knew right away that you truly had the encounter as well as YOU know that you did. I urge you to ask Jesus to forgive you for giving up because of the let down of other people. (He never left you, He is still where you left Him) Then I ask that you ask Him to lead you where He would have you go as far as a church. You need to find someone that is REAL. There are some out there. I pray that you will find someone that you can trust. Don't let people separate you from the joy of the Lord that you once knew. HE is still real and HOLY. He is just waiting for you to return unto Him. Please do....and show your child what a true christian life is suppose to be. God will help you.

Dano said...

If God created some people with a greater proclivity for Going to heaven than others, wouldn't that be basically unfair and immoral?
God by definition, would have to be perfect, so this is impossible! He could not create Ted Bundy, and say "All right Ted, you are going to be a serial killer, and go to hell," that would make God complicit in serial killing.

Therefore whatever happens to the pope when he dies, also happens to Ted.

Anonymous said...

Wow what a moving experience.
Please read this below I admit i'm pretty bad at putting words together.

Ok i'm 22 I grew up in a christian house hold, was away from the faith when I was younger. I'd go out partying and drinking all the time pleasing myself, but the more I did it the more I wanted. I could find the hottest girl one weekend and want another one the next and I was never satisfied.
I was drawn to christianity and realized that I'd never be satisfied with anything this world can offer and all my friends are finding out the same thing.
I will tell you i've seen the power of God and people cured of illnesses and sicknesses.

I think the problem is as Debbie mentioned many people accept Jesus and that's only the beginning. Every day we have to keep obeying God. "If you love me you'll obey me". I don't mean we can be perfect, but i'm talking about totally surrendering to God and making him first, because He says there will be no other Gods before me.
If we put ourselves first and our own selvish desires the flesh will rule and we'll constantly find ourselves sining. Then we have guilt and shame and everything else and the devil wants us to believe that there's nothing wrong with the way we live.

Ok everyone here says they were previously christians, but were they totally surrendered to God.

I'll tell you know from my own experience you might think at the moment you're happy or satisfied with life or you may not. If we don't know God we'll find happiness in ourselves pride, cars, houses, our own intelligence, girlfriend it could be anything. We can have anything and it will never be enough.

.:webmaster:. said...

Debbie and Anony...

I'm no longer a Christian and I don't have any of these controlling cravings that you seem to have.

Perhaps your impression that everyone is just exactly like you is naive.

Religion may give the two of you a sense of purpose, meaning and control over your lives. That's why religion is so popular with some people - but having a nice fantasy that makes you feel good doesn't make that fantasy reality or true. Now, if feelings are what matters to you two, well, then that's a completely different matter.

Anonymous said...

From my prospective it's not about a fantasy. I believe we are spiritual beigns and we can feel the presence of God and of the Devil and i'll admit i've experienced both and one much more pleasent than the other.
I know without doubt that God is real and that's what faith is. It's not easy to believe in something that's unseen. Ok you might say it's just stupid to believe in something you can't see, but for me i've experienced God and being in his presence is one of the greatest experiences I believe you can have on earth.

.:webmaster:. said...

Yes anony - you believe - I get that - you are convinced because you have a feeling and you believe and that's the way it is, and so on...

I do get it.

I've also had powerful experiences that I believed was the real presence of the almighty god with me, around me, in the room with me, etc. I believed - and for many years, believing was enough.

Now at 47 I realize that those experiences were all psychosomatic experiences. The mind is a powerful thing and reality, dreams, and emotions can have a powerful effect on people's perceptions of the world around them.

You might want to quit the preaching on the site for a day or so until you've had a chance to really read a few articles and testimonies. There are thousands of them here - and I doubt you've looked at many.

Have a nice day.

Anonymous said...


I have been a christian now for over 15 years. I also accepted the Lord Jesus as my saviour. Has everything been perfect? I perfect,? NO....but I try


Debbie … it was the trying that kept me clinically depressed when I was a Christian. And it was the realization that if God really loved me, he wouldn’t want me to be so miserable that drove me away from church. After 15 years of bible courses, fasting, praying, studying the bible for one hour a day and being unable to change what the church people told me was wrong about me.

the more I did it the more I wanted. I could find the hottest girl one weekend and want another one the next and I was never satisfied.
I was drawn to christianity and realized that I'd never be satisfied with anything this world can offer and all my friends are finding out the same thing.


I don’t go to church anymore, and I don’t sleep around or drink or go to the pub. I am still the same moral individual I used to be. It is just that now, I don’t do those things because I am afraid of God. I don’t do them because I love myself enough to do only what benefit me, things that make me a better person, such as reading a good book.

Ok everyone here says they were previously christians, but were they totally surrendered to God.


Honey, yes. I surrendered to God completely. Every cell of my being. I have heard every sermon, read every book. I could tell you by heart sermons by David Jeremiah, Chuck Swindoll, or James Dobson. I did my devotions, prayed, studied all versions of the Bible. And I also was able to parrot all the clich├ęs the way you do. It is just that in the end, just like Charles Spurgeon, I was totally depressed, unhappy, and burdened. Further research revealed that I wasn’t alone. Many well-meaning Christians suffer depression as well.

If I were you guys, I would take some time to read the testimonies of people who post here. You seem to have this know-it-all attitude that entitles you to provide your strong opinions before looking at the evidence first. Yes I used to be like that too... a year ago, I would have said exactly what you are saying today. Perhaps one day you will see the light.

Take care of yourselves,


Dave8 said...

Lorena: "If I were you guys, I would take some time to read the testimonies of people who post here. You seem to have this know-it-all attitude that entitles you to provide your strong opinions before looking at the evidence first."

Is this what public education is pumping into our society... Lorena, everyone has an opinion, its just a fact of life, and you need to build a nice bridge, and get over it... I live in a democracy, I don't want your opinion, solicited to me by door-to-door service, I don't want phone calls, personally, I don't care to see the "info-mercials" that stick religious propaganda all over the TV...

You came "here", giving "your" opinion... with "ZERO" evidence to establish a "fact" or "universal truth"... If someone were to say "there is 'no' evidence for 'god'", you would call that an opinion, while standing there drooling without any evidence to discount the statement... If you have 'evidence' of a metaphysical object called god, and you actually believe you can use "physical" evidence to support the notion, then put it out for everyone to see, until then, your opinion is yours, with 'zero' empirical or logical credibility...

Provide the "evidence", and I will personally deconstruct the evidence right in front of your eyes, thanks, and have a nice day...

Jim Lee said...

Hi Jim. The most important part of your journey is the fact that your out of it. Christianity is a crutch that some people just need as some sort of support. You are aware of Apologetics used by Christianity to fool the masses and the devious ways the authors go about their work of deception. Apologetics authors should be totally ashamed of themselves and their devious writings. Christinity is a fraud. Pure and simple.

Anonymous said...

Dave 8:

My comments were not addressed to you. They were addressed to the fundamentalists that posted the nasty comments.

I am sorry to have misled to believe I was talking about us ex-christians.

Please take some time to read who the comments are addressed to.


Dave8 said...

Lorena: "Please take some time to read who the comments are addressed to."

Uh, bowed head with humility... I re-read the post... my apologies, your post was well written, I took the writing out of context... a reasonable mistake ;-) And, your post was well written, take care...

Anonymous said...


If you really have a fancy for deconstruction. Take a shot at the information listed in the following book... The Case for Christ by Lee Strobel, journalist, skeptic and former atheist who addresses the following topics:

1) Can the biographies of Jesus be trusted?
2) Do the biographies of Jesus stand up to scrutiny?
3) Were Jesus’ biographies reliably preserved for us?
4) Is there credible evidence for Jesus outside His biographies?
5) Does archaeology confirm or contradict Jesus’ biographies?
6) Is the Jesus of History the same as the Jesus of faith?
7) Was Jesus really convinced that He was the Son of God?
8) Was Jesus crazy when He claimed to be the Son of God?
9) Did Jesus fulfill the attributes of God?
10) Did Jesus – and Jesus alone – Match the identify of the Messiah?
11) Was Jesus death a sham and His resurrection a hoax?
12) Was Jesus’ body really absent from His tomb?
13) Was Jesus seen alive after His death on the cross?
14) Are there any supporting facts that point to the resurrection?
15) What does the evidence establish – and what does it mean today?

I'm curious as to what type of facts you can present to refute his research, that is, if you really meant what you wrote and you weren't trying to hide behind a "chase away" challenge.

And, oh yeah, one more thing. A lot of the criticism of "religion" is deserved. What tends to get lost here is what the Bible actually says, not what some church group says that the Bible says. That means a concerted effort on the part of each member to study and meditate on it. That isn't what really happens a vast majority of time or church members would expose the contradictions that a number of churches are teaching. Before you give up on "Christianity" you should examine what you really know about what the Bible says, not what some church said the bible said.

Dave8 said...

Anonymous: "I'm curious as to what type of facts you can present to refute his research, that is, if you really meant what you wrote and you weren't trying to hide behind a "chase away" challenge."

First of all anonymous, your childish antics aren't warranted... Are you "curious" for me, and my beliefs, or yours? If you want to find "truth", then do your own research...

"In light of Strobel's frequent reminders that he used to be a hard-nosed, skeptical journalist, I skimmed the table of contents and index to see which critics of Christianity he interviewed. In so doing, I discovered a glaring deficiency in Strobel's journalism: Strobel did not interview any critics of Christian apologetics, even though he attacks such individuals in his book.[2] For example, Strobel devotes an entire chapter to his interview of Greg Boyd (an outspoken faultfinder of the Jesus Seminar), yet Strobel never interviewed a single member of the Jesus Seminar itself! Likewise, he repeatedly criticizes Michael Martin, author of Case Against Christianity, but he never bothered to get Martin's responses to those attacks.[3] This hardly constitutes balanced reporting on Strobel's part; indeed, on this basis, one is tempted to dismiss the entire book."

I don't have to "read" Lee's book, I have done thousands of hours of research, and have quite well deconstructed the bible, while attending a Christian university... There are irrefutable facts that apparently you seem to "miss"...

God by definition is "unknowable"... if you want, look up, Transcendent Metaphysical Objective Reality... this is where the abrahamic god resides, by definition... There can be "no" evidence in this Natural Universe, for a SuperNatural being, its impossible... So, Lee has an opinion, with no evidence, and he has been deconstructed...

If you are attempting to make a point, then "You" present a case, and I'll just deconstruct your comments... I tell you what, if you are truly searching for truth... here's a question...

How much knowledge/information do you have when you are born?

If you don't have any knowledge/information at birth, then how did you learn of god?

See, anonymous, you were told something, and you believed it... and at one time, so did I... well, until I asked for evidence... and I'm still waiting... So, show your intellectual capacity, and provide direct information to support the claim for a SuperNatural god... if you can't, its okay, god has been dead since ancient philosophy... which predates christianity...

Can you provide Natural Evidence for a SuperNatural entity? If you have to think about that, then you have serious issues... You need to go back and figure out what "faith" means by definition... and if Lee doesn't get it, he's a moron also... As a matter of fact, find out what "Lee's" web site is if he has one, and invite his "intellectualness" onto this site, and I will deconstruct him in front of the world... fair?... I am more than sure, he will not show up, his words are camoflauge for the naive, and he would take a publicity rating hit, to have his pants dropped in front of the entire online free world...

Here's a definition or two for you:

Meta - "In epistemology the prefix meta- is used to mean about (its own category). For example, metadata is data about data (who has produced it, when, what format the data is in and so on). Similarly, meta-memory in psychology means an individual's intuition about whether or not they would remember something if they concentrated on recalling it. Any subject can be said to have a meta-theory, which is the theoretical consideration of its foundations and methods."

Meta-Physical means it has its own nice little category, and different than just "Physical"... Therefore, the Meta-Physical epistemologically resides apart and separate by the abrahamic religious standards from Physical reality... Therefore, Meta-Physical concepts, entities, etc., can not be "measured" based on "Physical" standards...

Here is one more definition for you:

Transcendent: "Beyond and outside the ordinary range of human experience or understanding; "philosophers...often explicitly reject the notion of any transcendent reality beyond thought...and claim to be concerned only with thought itself..."- W.P.Alston; "the unknowable mysteries of life"

By sheer definition, your god, can not be "known" using Physical/empirical evidence, or logical reasoning... I'm literate, I understand this... its obvious, whoever is buying Lee's books, are so desperate, that they forget how to speak the english language...

By the way, I have much more secondary or indirect evidence that Santa Clause is true, than Lee has that a "Transcendent Metaphysical God" walked this Physical earth... And, if you knew anything about comparitive religion you would know, the gnostics who lived at the exact same time, who were growing up beside christianity, believed "jesus" to be an "image", because... at least they weren't retarded enough to believe that a "Metaphysical", "Transcendent", "god", was "walking" this physical earth in "Physical" flesh and blood...

If you are curious, look up Ebionites, they were from the region Jesus was said to have lived, and they denied the divinity of jesus... The rabbinical jews, rejected him as their messiah, because he didn't fill "one", exclusive OT prophesy, which "was required" to occur, if the "True" Messiah showed up on the scene of humanity...

If you have "any" intellectual comment to make regarding philosophy, or if you come accross some "empirical" evidence, then present it... Lee is making a living off of the ignorant, but, so do all paid clergy...

If you had a clue about ancient mythology, comparitive religion, and linguistics, then you wouldn't be on this site asking questions, you'd be providing evidence for your god...

Your jesus, (hypothetically) was 33 years old when he departed from the earth, he was only "known" for 3 years during his lifetime, there were 3 points on the cross, and, finally, tertullian, an early church father who "created" the term "trinity" did so, as a "voting" member on the First Council of Nicaea, when they voted on the "divinity" of jesus...

Now, why so many three's?

"Number mysticism is not generally associated with "serious mathematics" but from the early Pythagoreans until the 19th century many venerated mathematicians practised some forms of numerology."

"Pythagoras (approximately 569 BCE – 475 BCE, Greek: ?????????) was an Ionian mathematician and philosopher, known best for the Pythagorean theorem which bears his name.

Known as "the father of numbers", Pythagoras made influential contributions to philosophy and religious teaching in the late 6th century BC."

Number & Property of the number:

1 monad(unity) generator of numbers, the number of reason

2 dyad(diversity, opinion) first true female number

3 triad(harmony = unity + diversity) first true male number

4 (justice, retribution) squaring of accounts

5 (marriage) = first female + first male

6 (creation) = first female + first male + 1 ?

10 (Universe) tetractys

Now, lets see, according to Pythagoras' symbolism, 3 represents "harmony".... hmmmm, hypothetically, Jesus was a male, and so was his father... jesus was supposed to have "lived" to be "33" years old... separate 33 into separate 3's, and you get the sum of 3 + 3 = 6, where "6", is "creation"... the cock crowed "3" times... depending on which version of the cock crowing one wants to take out of context, however, doesn't the cock crow different numbers of times in the bible... I don't want to look, its late, however, I am sure, each number has some significance...

Anonymous, you must be desperate to want to believe in something, and find purpose in your life... that's okay, I don't have the right to take away your "hope"... however, don't come here and attempt to "persuade" me... perhaps, you can find someone else to dupe on another site... If you want to discuss furhter, show up with some facts... The bible is cryptic, and was written with symbolism... read literally and it's totally fractured...

When you finally, take a few courses, regarding comparitive religion, philosophy, etc., let me know, and perhaps we can discuss matters on a more intellectual level, as opposed to you coming on this site, and asking me to deconstruct "someone" elses' comments...

Anonymous said...

Dave8: There's no question that you believe in God. The question is why you're so pissed off at Him. An objective look at your tone can see that. Something turned you against Him and you are trying to use your intellect to rationilize it. Too bad!

south2003 said...

Dave8 saud: "When you finally, take a few courses, regarding comparitive religion, philosophy, etc., let me know, and perhaps we can discuss matters on a more intellectual level, as opposed to you coming on this site, and asking me to deconstruct "someone" elses' comments..."

And this was the reponse he gets:

Anonymous said: "Dave8: There's no question that you believe in God. The question is why you're so pissed off at Him. An objective look at your tone can see that. Something turned you against Him and you are trying to use your intellect to rationilize it. Too bad!"

south2003 said...

Anonymous said: "The question is why you're so pissed off at Him. An objective look at your tone can see that. Something turned you against Him"

Anonymous, I never knew "god" was a male...or should I ask, how do you know "god" is male?

Passerby said...

After all Dave8 said, the only response you have is "there's no question he believes in a god." You were slammed with your measly pitiful arguments and don't even realize it. Why? Because you are brainwashed. But don't worry, most of us at some point in our lives were infected with the Christian meme.

Are you willing to educate yourself about the history of world religions and how they formed, and the myths involved in all of them? If not, then run along little kiddie and put your fingers in your ears and scream at the top of your lungs-----lalalalalala---I can't hear you!

Oh, and btw, this Christmas, when you look at you Christmas tree, wreath and mistletoe, just remember those symblols were all stolen by Christianity from prior religious beliefs. Your Jesus character is not even original.


Passerby said...

Hey South,
Good to see you're still on the boards and making fun of fundies, as usual:-)

Hope you have a festive and wonderful winter solstice.

south2003 said...


Good to see you too :-)

What can Anonymous comment on? NADA.

Look what he/she reverted back to after seemly so edumacated on Lee Strobel's book...whinning like a little bitch: Why are you mad at my god! What a joke.

Anonymous, actually, Dave8 is mad at Apollo for killing Achilles with his bow and arrow.

Dave8 said...

Hello South, and Passerby... Good to see you both, hopy you're both doing well, it appears our Intellectually challenged Anonymous didn't have anything intellectual to add to this conversation... and man I hate Apollo for killing Achilles with those arrows :-)

Anonymous said: "Dave8: There's no question that you believe in God. The question is why you're so pissed off at Him. An objective look at your tone can see that. Something turned you against Him and you are trying to use your intellect to rationilize it. Too bad!"

Well, if your god vanishes so easily with basic logic and reason, perhaps, your god isn't a god after all... Perhaps, the only place a god can reside, is in those places where logic and reason don't exist, for example; your mind... Have a great Solstice Holiday...

Anonymous said...

I've never been called a "fundie" before. I think I'm insulted!

Dave8 said...

Anonymous: "I think I'm insulted!"

After conferring with your self... Let us know what you two work out...

south2003 said...


This is how one deconstructs "someone" elses' comments...

Anonymous said: "I've never been called a "fundie" before. I think I'm insulted!"


Dave8 said...

Hey South, I think there is advanced deconstruction occurring between Anonymous' ear lobes ;-) Lol

Anonymous said...

Please, please, please, the word is "drivel" not "dribble"!!!

Dano said...

If Joseph had sexual intercourse with Mary after God was finished using her (Ah La Michael Jackson), he was screwing the mother of God, or doing a threesome with God, Jesus, and the Holy Ghost, or something. NOW THAT AIN'T NICE!

south2003 said...

Dribble – drool, slobber, ooze

Drivel – foolishness, claptrap, idiocy

Sounds the same to me.

south2003 said...


How many True Christians (TM) go that far in their thinking?


The Roman Catholic Church made a profit knowing that they would not even dear think about it, much less question the nonsense.

Dano said...

It's fun to interject logic into the Bible "dribble," because I know that most of the cult members have never taken a critical look at it, and it must make at least some of them lose a little sleep till they can get to the head cult member, the guy with the perpetual silly grin on his face, and have it explained by quoting some more dribble from the book.

I watch the 700 club for a few minutes every day. I find the stench of hypocrisy, insincerity and phoniness, that you can literally see rising from Pat Robertson, reinforces my disbelief in Christianity.

Anonymous said...

(Well, this is gonna be short and sweet.)Im a christian and I just wanted to say that Im praying for you. I know that we as the body of christ and as individual christians have let you down. Im sry that we have. Just know, again, that I care, my heart goes out to you and I will be praying for you most definately in the future!

Anonymous said...

(Well, this is gonna be short and sweet.)Im a christian and I just wanted to say that Im praying for you. I know that we as the body of christ and as individual christians have let you down. Im sry that we have. Just know, again, that I care, my heart goes out to you and I will be praying for you most definately in the future!

Forever and ever said...

Whats all this
Have a great Solstice Holiday stuff

In Australia today where I live it's over 42 Celsius today.
We celebrate the easter bunnies birthday. On the 25th Although we don't know what date he was born on.

All the bunnies come out to sing songs to the sun.Who is the light of the world That walks on the water.
And if it wasn't for us.The sun wouldn't come back.
So there.And thats fact cause my mum told me that the Tooth Fairy told her so it's true.Just ask father christmas .If you don't believe me.Ha

Dave8 said...

Was thinking of some more 3's, in the bible... 3 wise men, and peter would deny christ 3 times, on the 3'd day of creation the water and land were separated, a property of unity and diversity to create harmony... and finally, the number 6, representing the number of days it took god to "create" the entire universe... The bible is a pit of symbolism... Oh, yeah... and the great pyramids, the big "3" were created over two thousand years prior to Pythagorian numerology, which probably had its influence on his geometric numerology theory... lets see, Giza, 3 major pyramids, created with 4 "3" sided triangles... the 4 sides and square base, meaning retribution and squaring of accounts, i.e., and the 3 sided triangles surrounding 4 sided base representing the enclosure of peace from "all direction"...

Hmmm, did I leave anything out... I suppose I should look at the book of "numbers" in the bible, to see if the biblical writers of the time were influenced by numerology... Oh, one more number, almost forgot... 7... the "divine" number chosen by many religions... the 7 tribes of Israel, and the 7 seals, in the mysterious worship of Mithra there were "seven gates," seven altars, seven mysteries. etc... divine in nature... picked up to become the 7 wonders of the world, there are 7 steps and 14 (twice seven) in many masonic lodges... templars, religions, etc., you name it, there are numbers reflecting on the philosophy of numerology... 7 keys of an octave on a piano, all the way back to the seven-stringed lyre of Apollo. Anyway, divine inspiration of just a reuse of a previous idea over time, and recorded in biblical texts... the Christian clergy of old – a contract with the devil had to contain seven paragraphs, was concluded for seven years and signed by the contractor seven times; all the magical drinks prepared with the help of the enemy of man consisted of seven herbs; that lottery ticket wins, which is drawn out by a seven-year old child. Legendary wars lasted seven years, seven months and seven days; and the combatant heroes number seven, seventy, seven hundred, seven thousand and seventy thousand.

Exodus 1:5 And all the souls that came out of the loins of Jacob were seventy souls: for Joseph was in Egypt already.

Again, 7 represents spiritual or completeness, 7 is found 735 times in the Bible. 7-fold is mentioned 6 times and 7th is found 119 times.

The 7th time Noah’s name occurs is where it is said,

Genesis 6:9 - “Noah was a just man, and PERFECT in his generations.”

Well, enough for symbolism today, one can't read the bible without knowing what the writers's knowledge and beliefs are, and its obvious that many of the authors believed in the phythagorean numerology... Now, are we to believe numbers have divine properties... superstition... but, its plainly obvious that the number 13 is theoretically an unlucky number, etc., etc... I wonder how far our society has truly progressed, there are rarely few people who look at my social security number with many sevens who don't make some kind of spiritual comment to me...

Forever and ever said...

beloved friend

153 fish = 9
666 man = 9
144 in heaven = 9

God 777 = 3
Jesus 888 =6
= 9 = man


Multiply 9 by any number = 9

.:webmaster:. said...

To Forever and ever:

I love german and swiss cuckoo clocks too.

Forever and ever said...

Wisdom.? ? ?

666 + 777 + 888 = 9

Wisdom? ? ?

1 + 1 + 1 = 1

Wisdom.? ?

Now does the sun revolve around the earth
It's not a mating call

feerdy said...

Dear short and sweet,... why do you assume we want you to pray for us? Dose't the bible say to pray in secret as to not be like the hypocrite pharisies? Thats right you are a pride filled hypocrite,.please keep your prayer life secret and with humility,...or you will lose your mansion in the socially racist heaven your destined for...freedy

Anonymous said...

jt i read your testimony and i'll try to make this short & sweet everyone goes thru bad experiences but know in your heart that god loves you and you have a purpose youve been theu alot and have a great testimony use it for god. i know with all my heart my faith is real, trust me i have my own testimony, maybe later i'll tell you its pretty long. I was onn the montell williams show and i made sure i gave all the glory abt my situation to god. he will be faithful to u for get abt other people and worry abt you and your relationship with god. your loving sister in christ . i believe you will fulfill your purpose. you are a strong and bold person use your gifts god has given you dont listen to the devils lies abt your life u knoe he is only here to kill steal and destroy and trust me he wants u! love in christ tab.

Rotating Anode said...


Why would JT use his testimony for god when his testimony plainly explains why that line of thinking is incorrect for him?

You state "in your heart" that "your faith is real", that is great.. For you and you alone. In JT's heart he does not see things in the same light, and he is entitled to the same judgement within himself. Don't you think? Or are you of the mindset that everyone is entitled to their own opinion on the religion question as long as it is the same as yours?

I'm not sure if you are trying to add credibility to yourself by refrencing an appearance on the Montell Williams show, pardon me while I chuckle a bit. I personally don't think Mr. Williams, or Jerry, or Maury are very poor sources of info, but I sense that they may where you got your education outside of the church.

And BTW.. JT is not posessed by a devil that is looking to kill, steal, or otherwise harm him. He is posessed by knowledge, experience, and a peace one finds only by being true to themselves.

Rotating Anode said...

Typo correction... I personally think Mr. Williams, or Jerry, or Maury are very poor sources of info, but I sense that they may where you got your education outside of the church.

J.T. Steeler FAN!!! said...

Thanks to Everyone who has posted a comment on my testimony. It has been great hearing from everyone. I just want everyone who is leaving the church or who is thinking about it to spend some time on this website and absorb all the knowledge and people experiences that you will get from this website. This is a great website with good people who are trying to help others find their way out this maize of madness we call christianity. They are not doing it because they want to convert or deconvert people like christians do for god but they are doing out of the goodness of their hearts because most of them know how tricky this maize is and are willing to help others think thru it. Great Website Dave!!! I thank "God or the Force or something" for you!! LOL!! Everybody Take Care!

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