Life as a slinky

sent in by redwolfd

I'll admit it. I was a Christian at one point in my life. I will not lie to anyone and say that I did not think I was happy either. I was the typical Baptist bible thumping goody two shoes who always stood out as the example for other christians to follow after. I can remember in high school being the leader of teaching sessions to new christians teaching them how to act "proper" because it was more effective when someone who was the same age as the other kids who would show them what was "Christian". I was very good at being the person whom every young person should strive to be like.

Yet I always questioned whether or not what I was doing was true, or why I was even doing it in the first place. I noticed how the favorites got played among the leaders of the church by "promoting" relatives and friends into positions of leadership and forgetting about those who were not of proper lineage. I remember being told as a young man that because I had not been to church for 2 weeks that I would have to step down from a ministry I was involved in. At the same time the man who demoted me, the son of the head pastor, had just been appointed as the youth pastor after being out of the Marine Corp. for about a week(a real christian environment lol). I remember some other people who were in high school being turned the blind eye when they got caught having sex or drinking. Yet you could rest assured that someone who did not matter, like me for instance, would be punished and brought before the church.

When I reached eighteen years of age my father had quit going to church. He became depressed and resorted to alcoholism. I can remember my mother and I begging for help from the church leaders to comfort and love my father like the great Jesus had commanded. All that was ever produced, though, was empty promises from church leaders who cared to much about sticking their heads up their superiors ass than lending a hand to someone who needed it. The reason was simple, my father did not matter. He was not important enough to give a dam about. I realized, at that moment, the games I had been involved in. How I had lived a life of pleasing those whom had thrown me aside when I became of little use them. And for once it was crystal clear to me; The church was nothing more than politics in its most dangerous form. It made you believe that if you simply did what was asked of you in a book which was constantly misqouted that you could be happy and accepted. And in the end all that occurs is the tearing down of a persons individualism and liberties.

I walked away from the church the day that I opened my eyes to this. I have heard people say that I cannot judge my personal relationship with god on others. But would a real god allow his place of worship to be tarnished with corruption and glory of the primitive human? Would a real god who preached reaching out to those who are in need let half of the world starve and those who are not of worldly stature fall to the wayside? Would a real god write to us about how much he loves us while allowing all kinds of evil to ruin peoples lives?

I am now free from the guilt of leaving the political institute which I once embraced. And needless to say I do not worry much about god smiting me with a thunderbolt anymore. All that is left for me to do is to start living very late in life and find out who the hell I am. Yet, suprisingly, I am more at peace with the world and my life than i have ever been. My eyes have been opened to different things that were condemned in the religious realm. I am finally accepting and being accepted and enjoying the things in life that make me happy. Finally, I am becoming whole.

Las Vegas
United States
Joined: Nine years of age
Left: Seventeen years of age
Was: Independent fundamental Baptist
Now: Agnostic
Converted because: Family pressure and conviction from sermons.
De-converted because: The realization of being lied to and treated as a pawn.
email: richdennis84 at yahoo dot com


jimearl said...

Hi Redwolfd and thanks for your comments. I am curious about you age. At first, I thought you were a young man but later you mentioned something about "this late in life." Not that it matters much. No matter when we find the truth, it sure feels good. Do you have a family that suppports your decision? I am married to a Southern Baptist member who is being pulled in two different directions. Our sons are both freethinkers and happy to be free of religion. My wife grew up catholic and when she moved south she tried several different churches before she choose the local baptist church. I have since lost my faith and do not attend at all. So she hears sermons on Sundays and the truth the rest of the week. I believe it's a matter of time before she accepts that religion is not all it's made out to be. Anyway, take care and enjoy your freedom to think. Jimearl

Anonymous said...

Hi redwolfd. Interesting read. My wife and I were considered to by other Christians to be very holy folk. We received many comments from other christians who used to say. "We wish our faith was as strong as yours" As we became bible study freaks we found it hard to justify some New Testament biblical contradiction. So I began to do some independent research to prove that Christianity was the one true religion. Man, what a can of worms awaited me. My wife and I were devastated at what we were finding. It shattered us at the time. We left, and became agnostic. Continual research lead us to become atheist. This was some years ago now and we now laugh about how stupid we were to belief all this Christian hype in the first place. We thought we were happy chappies back then but today we know what true freedom and happiness if about. Hence the introduction of my website. Escape The Dogma. True happiness is when you can give all religions the flick.

Anonymous said...

safqublind arrogance ! 'would a real god allow-?' you want the one who rules the worlds to report to you before he functions? 'we preach not ourselves but christ crucified ' 'let god be true & every man a liar.' the best of men are but men at the best . look at a few glorious sunsets not at your fellow mens foibles and get back tio his love

Anonymous said...

So you go out into the world, rejecting Christ because of the way Chtistians acted toward you because you "did not matter".

And do you matter now?

What have you accomplished?

What are the phonies here going to do but say welcome aboard and pat you on the back and move on?

Do you think you matter to the world now?

Do you thing the world gives a shit about you?

I can name lots of secular organizations you would like to be part of who will not give you the time of day.

The world doesn't give a flying fuck about you, and neither do these people...they will just give you an internet illusion of belonging.

freeman said...

The world does not give a flying fuck about you!
Jesus doesn't give a flying fuck about you because he never existed and never will exist except in the dillusions of christianity!

You are a vile human being!

freeman said...

We offer nothing except welcome to the real world. It is very similar to the movie Matrix when Neo awoke from his imposed slumber.

Anonymous said...

Are you a female, and do you have any nice parts. If you do, Welcome!

Anonymous said...

Hi Redwolfd, We here understand the Politics of Religion. Religion is a disease and a ploy to confuse and decieve. Religions represent mental depravity, because religions were invented by people that were totally insane, it soon becomes obvious to a sane person that religions are from a sick mental baffoon. But there will always be those that try to cover up the veil of insanity for their own personal gain, these people are very dangerous, they will lie to you, straight to your face, as you have already found out. The people that believe that they are living in the Light of a Gods Will, are very dangerous and sick, take GWB, for instance.

All religions are the invention of a sick and demented people, and religions attract the same type of people. Religion is a mental disease that has gotten badly out of control. A simple hoax perpertated by Mary and Joseph, in order to save themselves from being stoned to death, for having a bastard child out of wedlock, was taken much farther than they had imagined.

Then Jesus faked his own death, in order for his prophesies to appear to have become true. Whom moved the stone? Jesus's advisaries that's who, they all knew that if their promised messiah had not appeared to have risen, that they all would have been put to death.

Mary and Joseph and Jesus came from a long line of hoaxers and scam artists, they were all opium-head gypsies.

Anonymous said...

Redwolfd, welcome to the real world! Thank you for your story; it is always encouraging to me to hear the tale of a religionist who discovers the truth and abandons falsehood. The greatest thing you'll ever learn is not to love "God," expecting vast returns, only to be dealt more guilt by your fellow theist; the greatest thing you'll ever learn is to love your fellow man, to love the whole world and universe, and to be satisfied in this alone.

I have to give credit to kr]en for having said it best: religion preaches "not Christ," but death, torment, anguish. If every man (who disputes "god") is a liar, then logically, what was a lie is now the truth. The best of men are but men at best, and it is thus that we non-theists do not abandon man and seek "god" but instead strive to learn from one another and to better ourselves and each other. Redwolfd, you can watch a few sunsets on kr]en's suggestion if you wish, or you can watch each and every sunrise and enjoy every day, see your fellow man's foibles, and seek to improve the world thus.

Anonymous didn't provide a very good case for returning to Christianity, did he/she? Note that instead of disputing that Christianity subjugates its members and makes them feel like they don't matter, Anonymous tries to make the argument that the secular world is simply no different. Oh, and where's that legendary Christian compassion in his/her response? In any case--maybe he/she is right. Maybe the world doesn't care about ordinary people like us. It's all the more important, then, that more people like you and I wake up. It's all the more important that we cease to deceive ourselves with delusions of grandeur in the sky, living life in hopes of another. It's all the more important that we live life for THIS life, for our fellow men, for the world, and do what we can to make it a better place. Each and every person DOES matter, and all it takes is a hint of compassion and love to improve our state.

Don't just take my word for it, though--take a look around you. Take a deep breath, open your eyes, and indulge in the beauty of the world. Take solace in the love of your fellow man. Nothing is more important than this life because it's the only one you're ever going to get.

But I've gone on long enough. Best of luck to you, Redwolfd. I wish you the best. Enjoy your new freedom!



P.S. Revisiting dano's remark--Anonymous, are you a male, and do you have nice parts? If so, welcome!

Anonymous said...

Anonymous 12/07/2005 3:58 PM: "So you go out into the world, rejecting Christ because of the way Chtistians acted toward you because you "did not matter".

More like, rejecting the "tool" called christ that the religious use to impose their views uninvitedly towards people in a free society... Probably not too bad, depending on how one wields the "jesus" tool, however, since there is no evidence of a "jesus", it would seem people are using an "invisible" tool to impose their views and vile on people in a free society... perhaps, that's enough to denounce christ, an unpreditable "word" used in potentially an "infinite" number of ways according to each persons' imagination...

Anonymous 12/07/2005 3:58 PM: "And do you matter now?"

Personally, one matter much more, when they don't see themselves as a true christian, i.e., "I'm a sinner, born of disgusting evil filth, and require a lifelong commitment to deny my sinful ways according to the laws of the church", oh, yeah, and someone promised me the only reason I have any value in life, is because a "tool" called jesus, was used by their god to save mankind, and churches are just borrowing the tool for their own purposes temporarily of course...

Anonymous 12/07/2005 3:58 PM: "What have you accomplished?"

Self-worth, is based on more than what one accomplishes, its based on their perception of who they are as a person... however, religion has already declared everyon sinful, filth, and people are required to work like dogs to work themselves out of the pit of dispair in life, with the caveat, they will never be able to "accomplish" enough to become "worthy", it still takes the "jesus" tool to make a person whole...

Anonymous 12/07/2005 3:58 PM: "What are the phonies here going to do but say welcome aboard and pat you on the back and move on?"

One person finding themselves, and becoming an independent thinker, is one who is on their way to enlightenment and tolerance in society, when someone declares that they are in fact on this journey, I not only celebrate their "freedom", but the "freedom" that they now contribute to society... however, we all know religion restricts "freedoms", don't read Harry Potter, don't dance, don't eat this type bread, don't eat this type meat, etc., etc...

Anonymous 12/07/2005 3:58 PM: "Do you think you matter to the world now?"

Anyone who has to co-dependently look to an external source for validation doesn't have a life, of course, this is required by religious teachings... However, many have no problem with self-acceptance without the need to grovel to other mortal, who wield the "jesus" tool like a wand of power...

Anonymous 12/07/2005 3:58 PM: "Do you thing the world gives a shit about you?"

Well, religious sure doesn't, it only cares about what one can contribute to their cause, based on "accomplishments"... Other than that, care is a Self thing, finding others who are capable of care without tearing them down is just a bonus...

Anonymous 12/07/2005 3:58 PM: "I can name lots of secular organizations you would like to be part of who will not give you the time of day."

However, one must "require" themselves to be co-dependent for that statement to make any sense... I know its hard for you religionists to not see everyone in the world as having to "depend" on some "other" source for your own self-worth, but, lets look at the alternative... One who isn't co-dependent on someone else, or some other organization, isn't really affected by what some religious, or secular organization says... However, it does take a little while to become self-actualized and gaining unconditional love/care for ones self, which leads to increased levels of self-worth, after being "conditioned" by external organizations/religions to be co-dependent for many years... businesses and religions however, like co-dependence, it guarantess repeat customers...

Anonymous 12/07/2005 3:58 PM: "The world doesn't give a flying fuck about you, and neither do these people...they will just give you an internet illusion of belonging. "

One who has accepted themselves and gained self-worth beyond that offered by religion, can no longer "belong" to that environment entirely... belonging, once an Individual gains self-acceptance, becomes a "personal choice" by the Individual, and not a "carrot", held out by religious groups, to draw in members so they can condition them towards co-dependence with their "jesus" tool...

A person belongs to themselves "first", if a person doesn't gain that, they can't belong to anything else with integrity... Probably, why there are so many lost christians running around, they don't belong to themselves first, they must accept that they "first" and foremost belong to the group of unsaved, filthy, sinful, depraved souls who walk this earth, and true belonging can't occur because everyone else also belongs to that group of depraved souls and incapable of providing true belonging, after all, true "belonging" can't occur until after "death" and one is released to a better reality in heaven...

In order to find "true" belonging, beyond that provided by sinful man-kind, according to christianity, one needs to die... Now, that's true "purpose" in life, living in self-inflicted misery via religious influence with the only hope of joy... death... No, thanks, don't want to belong to the death club...

Anonymous said...

I apologize for misquoting kr]em. He said that religion preaches "not ourselves, but Christ crucified." My last comment remains accurate nonetheless--religion preaches "not [man]" but crucifixion, torment, death, and anguish.

Cheers, Redwolfd. Rock on.


Anonymous said...

Anonymous 12/07/2005 8:46 PM: "Are you trying to say Jesus never existed becuse there is a hell of alot more evidence of that then there is of your stupid little evoloution."

Actually, there is more evidence of Santa Clause than a jesus of nazareth... The Jews don't even mention a Jesus concept in their earliest for of the Talmud until after they are persecuted with a jesus tool by the Roman Empire, 600CE, ya' think they would have created an oral tradition by then to ensure no one was going to be lulled into the Roman Church, who voted on the life and divinity of a jesus at the First Council of Nicaea in 325CE... and slapped a bunch of NT writings together to support their story, while ignoring the plethora of gnostic, etc., writings that portrayed and had just as much "evidence" of jesus just being a mortal at best, and many times mythical.

Anonymous 12/07/2005 8:46 PM: "My advice to you redwolf is to join a church that is possibly non-denominational and has looser views that you can grow and find Jesus Christ through yourself and not some jackass who demoted you."

Anonymous, obviously you appear to be a looser connoisseur... must be from the intense experience you have received throughout your life... why would anyone want to listen to you, as a self-proclaimed looser, you've lost your soul, you've lost your savior, you've just "lost" so much, and you are running around trying to get it all back, with baptism, good deeds, etc... hoping that one day, when you "loose" your life, you will finally be able to "find" it all...

Anonymous, since you have to first be a "looser", in order to "find" meaning in life... Why not just go ahead, and do what your jesus idol did, and kill yourself, in order to end on a good note for society... he is your master... be a good little slave, and follow the leader, show us your faith (sarcasm)...

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Anonymous said...

Anonymous 12/07/2005 10:37 PM: "The world doesn't give a flying fuck about any of you."

Actually, you're so egocentric, you delusionally believe you can speak for the world, and it appears that you just don't care about anyone, to include yourself. I care for a lot of people, and its because I have learned to care for myself that I am capable of caring for others. Hopefully, you will someday care for yourself enough to know the entire world isn't out for anti-care. What a tawdry life you must lead.

Anonymous 12/07/2005 10:37 PM: "If you are even able to get born over one third being aborted by killer moms before you get here, you still have to bow down to the world system...and when you are no longer of any use you will be tossed aside?"

God's OK on abortion

Numbers 5:27-28 - "And when he hath made her drink the water, then it shall come to pass, that, if she be defiled, and have done trespass against her husband, that the water that causeth the curse shall enter into her, and become bitter, and her belly shall swell, and her thigh shall rot: and the woman shall be a curse among her people. And if a women be not defiled, but be clean, then she shall be free, and shall conceive seed.


This nonsensical ritual, prescribed by God, to a woman suspected of infidelity, must undergo the drinking of a vile concocttion made of bitter water and dust from the floor of a tabernacle. A priest calls a curse upon the woman's head to insuer that if she has acted in adultery the drinking of the liquid will cause her to have a miscarriage. If she comes clean, then she shall conceive.

It appears God isn't too opposed to abortion for adultery, I wonder if abortion is then okay for saving ones' life or in the cases of rape. Also, read Num. 5:1-25.

Anonymous 12/07/2005 10:37 PM: "So who ya kiddin?"

This thread isn't for you, no ones' trying to convince you of anything, so, you can leave now.

Anonymous 12/07/2005 10:37 PM: "But if it makes you feel better to make some atheist egomaniacs happy to have another poster, go for it."

Now that's an interesting tactic, an Anonymous egomaniac giving advice, and even allowing their target to make a decision freely, with the, "if it makes you feel better" clause. Wow, thanks for the permission to allow someone to live a free life. Hey Anonymous, virtually turn your head sideways, I need to see the door behind you, through your ear holes.

Anonymous said...

why the fwck are u trying to talk about santa clause? (he infact did exist.) and i like how you take a typo and and base your whole argument over it. I understand how u feel ur a small perosn in a big world so u try and be a rebel just for the sake of being one. Your too scared to admit there is a god becuase you cant stand the thought of some one having any type of control over you besides yourself. This arguing is pointless your not going to change my mind and im not going to change yours. I just find it sad that if some one ever has a doubt about faith and comes to this site you twist them around into thinking that there is no such thing as religion.

Anonymous said...

EDIT: You say that jesus was never written about untill... OK stop right there your acknowlegdeing taht there is and was a jesus so you basically made my point. And if im not mistaken the jews were the ones who killed jesus because he claimed to be the Lord and Savior so how can we trust them to portray him correctly in the writings if they obvioulsy didnt belive he was whom he said he was.

Anonymous said...

and if you dont belive in god im curious in all seriousness to find out how you think the universe was created.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous 12/07/2005 11:56 PM: Why the fwck are u trying to talk about santa clause? (he infact did exist.)"

The legend of St. Nicholas may have history, but the myth of Santa Clause trumps your jesus myth.

Anonymous 12/07/2005 11:56 PM: "and i like how you take a typo and and base your whole argument over it."

Actually, I didn't take a typo and use it as an argument premise, perhaps you are projecting based on your sub-conscious desire to be literate. Its okay by me how you type, I didn't expect literacy.

Anonymous 12/07/2005 11:56 PM: "I understand how u feel ur a small perosn in a big world so u try and be a rebel just for the sake of being one."

Sounds to me like you are speaking from someone with extensive experience in looking for the little child inside.

Anonymous 12/07/2005 11:56 PM: "Your too scared to admit there is a god becuase you cant stand the thought of some one having any type of control over you besides yourself."

Nature is in control of our lives, and I have no problem living according to its standards. Religionists think they can control Nature by abiding by religious laws, etc., and then we get murders, exorcisms, the raping of little children, etc.

Anonymous 12/07/2005 11:56 PM: "This arguing is pointless your not going to change my mind and im not going to change yours."

However, your mind, is still subject to Nature, and therefore, you are still being controlled by Nature, no matter what you believe.

Anonymous 12/07/2005 11:56 PM: "I just find it sad that if some one ever has a doubt about faith and comes to this site you twist them around into thinking that there is no such thing as religion."

If someone comes here with doubt about faith, and they ask honest questions and want honest answers. Then, why lie. Religion requires "total" faith, because there is "zero" evidence for a supernatural god. If someone doubts because they want evidence, then they aren't going to find it in religion. Religion is definitely real, however, what religion teaches according to doctrine when taken literally isn't fit for a civil society. Religion is real, just look at all the wars in history, typically based on religion.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous 12/08/2005 12:03 AM: "
EDIT: You say that jesus was never written about untill... OK stop right there your acknowlegdeing taht there is and was a jesus so you basically made my point."

Caveman wrote on the walls in color and made pretty pictures, that doesn't make the pictures real. I have comic books, should I go look to see if superman, i.e., modern day jesus, is out flying the friendly skies. The point, in case you weren't able to read the whole statement, is not that jesus isn't mentioned, its the fact that jesus isn't mentioned in historical writings until 600 years after the fact, according to the Jews. Oh, and if you forgot, jesus of nazareth was supposed to be a Jew. It seems it took the better part of a thousand years for the Jews to mention some dude that was a "god", do you think they missed that, No.

I suppose next you are going to claim that pac-man is a real god also, because you have a video game and can prove it.

Anonymous 12/08/2005 12:03 AM: "And if im not mistaken the jews were the ones who killed jesus because he claimed to be the Lord and Savior so how can we trust them to portray him correctly in the writings if they obvioulsy didnt belive he was whom he said he was."

According to the Christian Bible, and not according to "Me", who believes jesus was a totally fictitious creation of the Roman Empire, you "are" mistaken.

First of all, jesus isn't mentioned "once" in the Old Testament, uh, that means "Zero" times. In the New Testament, the story of a jesus being crucified, went against Jewish law, so the story portrays the Jews as turning a jesus over to the Romans for committing the act of blasphemy. The Romans per the bible, are the ones who "crucified" jesus, not the Jews.

And, why should you trust a Jew who didn't believe the NT jesus was supposed to be Their Jewish Messiah? I dunno, I suppose you should then throw out the Old Testament from your bible, because it was written by the Jews. Oh, and did I mention, that there was "zero" mention of a "jesus" in the Old Testament, perhaps... its because the Jews weren't looking for a "jesus", they were looking for a mortal messiah to bring them into the promised land. And, we both know, that never happened, even after jesus showed up. So much for jesus being "The Jewish Messiah".

Anonymous said...

Anonymous 12/08/2005 12:08 AM: "and if you dont belive in god im curious in all seriousness to find out how you think the universe was created."

In all seriousness, my Universe was created, by mom and pop in a rhythmic horizontal dance. Without them, my Universe would never have existed, thanks ma', and pop, you're my gods. And, what are the odds of one little sperm making it through that tunnell, gosh, its probably the odds of a few enzymes getting together and forming a life chain on earth, but here I am.

Anonymous said...

Too damn many Anonymous's here. Some of you Anonymous's need to learn to push the "OTHER," button and make up a handle so we can tell you apart. On could call himself Jesusanonymous, and one could call himself nonJesusanonymous. All of these Anonymous's are just too confusing for an old agnostic.Come on! "Bible Thumpers" it ain't that tricky!

Jim Arvo said...

Hello Anonymous 12/08/2005 7:49 AM EST,

Does your "Sayonara" indicate that you will not return? If so, that's a pity, because I'd like to see if you could defend any of your statements. Let's take a look at what you said:

Anonymous: "What I find most hilarious and hypocritical about the atheist swarm..."

At this point you've already committed a common error; that of over-generalization. No matter what you say next, it can be challenged simply by pointing out one atheist who does not fit your description. There is nothing common among atheists save ONE thing: a disbelief in gods or goddesses. If you feel the need to persecute an entire group of people simply because they (we) do not subscribe to your belief in god, gods, goddesses, etc., then you are already digging in to an indefensible position.

Anonymous: " that, after telling me there is no God and that I am free, they turn right around and start trying to tell me what to do?"

Case in point... I would NEVER tell you that there is no god, nor would I tell you how to live your life. What I *will* tell you is that I have never seen a single shred of credible evidence for an invisible conscious entity of any kind (therefore I have absolutely no reason to believe they exist). Beyond that, if you make blanket accusations based on one's theological position, or make outright threats of eternal damnation (a popular move among fundamentalists), or make other fantastic claims without any supporting evidence, then I will challenge you. You have the right to state your opinion, and I mine. Agree or disagree?

Anonymous: "Of course, this is always what atheists in power do...brutally."

That's a very careless generalization. How is it that you feel justified in making such a sweeping claim?

Anonymous: "Actually, the atheist is the ultimate egomaniac."

By "the atheist" I presume you mean ALL atheists deserve this label, simply because they do not believe in your god. Do you also level this accusation at those who believe in radically different god from yours (e.g. Hindus, Pagans, and Deists)? I'd love to hear your reasoning.

By the way, here's a little something to think about. I presume you are a Christian. As such, you probably believe that god made the Earth, in fact the entire universe, for the benefit of mankind. You believe that an all powerful being is concerned with your every action and thought. You believe that there is a paradise waiting for you after death, and structure your life accordingly. (Please correct me if I misstate your position.) Well, from my perspective, that's about as ego-centric as it's possible to be without being a Solipsist. As an atheist I view myself as a humble organism on this tiny planet, with a finite (and precious) life. I take responsibility for my own actions, and strive to do right by my fellow human, which includes respecting their right to believe what they wish (so long as they do no harm to others). If you insist that I am nonetheless egomaniacal simply by virtue of my disbelief in invisible conscious entities, then the ball is in your court. I'd be curious to see what kind of argument you can construct.

Anonymous: "No such person is fit for political office and I will never work for one..."

Can you please point out how your position differs from bigotry? To me a bigot is one who disparages an entire class of people based solely on some characteristic that they either have no control over (e.g. sex and race), or that they have every right possess, both legally and ethically (e.g. religious conviction, political affiliation).

Anonymous: "...the one I did work for screwed us over and was the most demanding arrogant prick I ever met."

Well, if that's so, then your former boss is the type of person I would not wish to be around. You know, professing Christians have also been now to be thoroughly awful people too. You can find such people in virtually every segment of society.

Anonymous: "Save me from your tetimonies."

There's actually a very simple solution that seems to work for everybody. How about this: We will continue to share our respective points of view, and you simply choose to not read them. Problem solved?

Clairikine said...

God "let things happen" because a) Romans 8:28: "God works through all things for the good of those who love him", and that means you, Redwolfd. B), we have freedom to act and think and feel what we want to, and people more often than not wind up using that freedom to hurt people, because all have sinned.

webmdave said...


If you didn't have your GOD restraining your behavior, what horrific thing is it you want to do to others. What kind of pain is it that you want to do that your GOD is keeping you from doing? Who is that you want to hurt?

To make a blanket statement like the one you've made certainly implies that you have some sort of deep yearning to inflict pain on others. If that's so, then it is good thing you have a deity to keep your evil yearnings at bay.

For me, after leaving Christianity, I didn't get one single urge to hurt other people. I guess I must be the exception, huh?

Anonymous said...

When people come on here saying (repeating)" All have sinned " you're just exposing your religious insanity. All has breathed air, why don't you say that, you dumbass? What friggin sins has anyone committed? If we are born in sin, it was because your father was humping your mother and thinking about another woman at the exact moment of ejaculation, is that a sin? You moronic jackass? What has, all have sinned, got to do with anything, if your ignorant God created all sin, then your dumbass God created and allowed all sin in the first place. If you wrap yourself up in the Bible, you wrap yourself up in insanity.

Trenchcoat, your're a typical religious moronic jackass!!!

Anonymous said...

Redwolfd, I, too, find greater inner peace without christianity. Christianity caused me confusion and inner turmoil. I couldn't believe in it, yet I denied that inner voice telling me that christianity is nonsense. This led to inner strife between that part of me that did not believe in it and that part of me that convinced me TO believe in it. I'm happier without christianity. I was divided within myself and denying it. How anybody can find inner peace and believe in christianity is beyond me.

Congratulations on leaving the faith.

Christianity is nonsense.

Anonymous said...

im a beliver in GOD,CHRIST and the HOLY SPIRIT who would dwell in any man or woman who seeks the truth. Granted, you and your family were treated most unfairly,and I do sympathize with that.
but please understand like so many others who have writen,that religion is a falsehood,this does not mean and im also talking about the others who have,uncontrolably filthy mouths,it does not mean there isnt any GOD, the proof is in the OLD TESTAMENT.
If there wasen't any GOD, would a people such as the JEWS write about there failures in life and there PROPHETS when they said something was going to happen and it did happen,for example, when the jews were taken to babylon, can you dispute this truth? There are also babylonian writings to prove it! Another example, you think one hundred men could take on one thousand men who had far more technical warfare at that time? GOD definitely had a hand in this! For those of you who don't belive,belive in yourselves.
You have all the ill gotten gains of the WORLD,my concience tells me different.Just because religion has failed, that doesent mean GOD has failed. Man has failed GOD, BLESSED MAY HE BE FOREVER!
I can understand how you all may feel,I too am having trouble with different winds of CHURCH DOGMA,and all kinds of INTERPERTATIONS.Also I know you may say that im some kind of crazy fanatic,or I don't care what you think.
I would like you all to keep this in mind,that we are all responsible for our own lot in life,and WE WILL ALL BE JUDGED, whether we like it or not for OUR ACTIONS!
Praying that GOD may bless you all and allow HIS knowlage to come into your lives,in CHRIST NAME AMEN.

Anonymous said...
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Anonymous said...

Anonymous wrote:

"These last four comments I have left anonymous for the pure reason of not being welcomed to your site. If all of you do not wish that I make any more comments, then I'll stop doing so?"

Hey good idea, go away! You obviously have nothing to say.


Anonymous said...

Anonymous said: "Im just as confused as you are with religion.
I ask THE LORD JESUS to Intercess to GOD THE FATHER that THE HOLY SPIRIT would enter our lives and those who are searching for THE TRUTH. BLESSED BE HE ALL IN ALL FOREVER AMEN."

No, are you really confused? Say it isn't so. *phew*

Sorry, I don't have a religion, perform rituals, believe in the debaucheries of some deity and its blood sacrifices to save mankind, and recite the nonsense you just posted from a book.

Anonymous said...
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Anonymous said...

Anonymous, you said on 01/06/06, "I believe you have to be true to yourself to be true with God."

Judging by the testimonies here, so many ex-christians left christianity because they were unable to be true to themselves while remaining christian. We found that we must deceive ourselves into believing christian doctrine and theology. Christian theology is impossible, yet there is little point in attempting to explain that to a christian. They might say "wth God, all things are possible," I suppose, even something as ludicrous as christianity.

The doctrine of "salvation by grace" is absurd. I am merely making an observation here, and, again, being true to myself. If said doctrine were my only hope of "entering heaven," as the christian church teaches, then there is no hope at all for those like myself who see that doctrine as an absurdity. In that realization, I find freedom, although you might not understand that.

You seem to agree with certain christian principles. Do you believe that one must "accept Jesus" in order to go to "heaven?" If not, then how, in your opinion, does one "enter heaven?" Do you believe that there is no other way into heaven, but to "accept Jesus," as the christian church has always taught?

Anonymous said...
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Anonymous said...

Genaro, why dont you read a few posts on this page before you spew your religious propaganda. People like you are the very reason this website was created, to point out the very nonsense that you insist in touting, we've all heard and spoken the same garbage ouselves, get a grip on reality. But you must know what reality is first.

Anonymous said...

Frank,I ask you,

Can you give me the definition of reality?

Anonymous said...

Holy Crap Genaro! Really? I would have never guessed it in a millennium.

Anonymous said...

Reality is based on what is true and pure fact, not what someone tells you is true.

Un-reality is believing in something that is not real and cannot be proved to be real, like the book of words written down by opium head gypsies called the bible.

Anonymous said...


That is 2 millennia?

Anonymous said...

Genaro said...

That is 2 millennia?

Do your own calculations fucktard. Yesterday, today or in a century, your nonsense will be nonsense.

Anonymous said...

To Genaro from Frank:
Josephus' Account of Jesus

The Testimonium Flavianum

Do the Christian gospels record actual events during the First Century A.D./ C.E., or are they the ecstatic visions of a small religious group?

There are no surviving Roman records of the First Century that refer to, nor are there any Jewish records that support the accounts in the Christian gospels --- except one.

In Rome, in the year 93, Josephus published his lengthy history of the Jews. While discussing the period in which the Jews of Judaea were governed by the Roman procurator Pontius Pilate, Josephus included the following account:

About this time there lived Jesus, a wise man, if indeed one ought to call him a man. For he was one who performed surprising deeds and was a teacher of such people as accept the truth gladly. He won over many Jews and many of the Greeks. He was the Messiah. And when, upon the accusation of the principal men among us, Pilate had condemned him to a cross, those who had first come to love him did not cease. He appeared to them spending a third day restored to life, for the prophets of God had foretold these things and a thousand other marvels about him. And the tribe of the Christians, so called after him, has still to this day not disappeared.
- Jewish Antiquities, 18.3.3 §63
(Based on the translation of Louis H. Feldman, The Loeb Classical Library.)

Yet this account has been embroiled in controversy since the 17th century. It could not have been written by a Jewish man, say the critics, because it sounds too Christian: it even claims that Jesus was the Messiah (ho christos, the Christ)!
The critics say: this paragraph is not authentic. It was inserted into Josephus' book by a later Christian copyist, probably in the Third or Fourth Century.

The opinion was controversial. A vast literature was produced over the centuries debating the authenticity of the "Testimonium Flavianum", the Testimony of Flavius Josephus.

A view that has been prominent among American scholars was summarized in John Meier's 1991 book, A Marginal Jew.

This opinion held that the paragraph was formed by a mixture of writers. It parsed the text into two categories: nything that seemed too Christian was added by a later Christian writer, while anything else was originally written by Josephus.

By this view, the paragraph was taken as essentially authentic, and so supported the objective historicity of Jesus.

Unfortunately, the evidence for this was meager and self-contradictory. But it was an attractive hypothesis.
New Information
In 1995 a discovery was published that brought important new evidence to the debate over the Testimonium Flavianum.

For the first time it was pointed out that Josephus' description of Jesus showed an unusual similarity with another early description of Jesus.

It was established statistically that the similarity was too close to have appeared by chance.

Further study showed that Josephus' description was not derived from this other text, but rather that both were based on a Jewish-Christian "gospel" that has since been lost.

For the first time, it has become possible to prove that the Jesus account cannot have been a complete forgery and even to identify which parts were written by Josephus and which were added by a later interpolator.

Read about this discovery here! -

The New View of The Testimonium of Josephus
Reference: "The Coincidences of the Testimonium of Josephus and the Emmaus Narrative of Luke", G. J. Goldberg, The Journal for the Study of the Pseudepigrapha 13 (1995) pp. 59-77.
1. The Mystery of Josephus' Jesus Account
An introductory history of the scholarly controversy over Josephus' Jesus account, from 93 CE to the present.
2. The Josephus-Luke Connection
The article introducing the surprising relationship found between the Testimonium and the Gospel of Luke. Includes computer search results.

3. The Testimonium-Luke Comparison Table
The table of parallels between the two Jesus descriptions. Gives a quick view of the subject.

4. Statistical Analysis of Jesus Texts
Early Descriptions of Jesus: Statistics Table and Sources. A quantitative analysis showing the statistical significance of the Testimonium-Luke relationship when compared with other Jesus descriptions from early Christianity. (Revision of Oct 1998: The interpretation of the statistics now includes use of the t-distribution, which is a better measure of significance for small samples. Using this, it is found that the correspondences between Josephus' Jewish Antiquities 18:63-64 and the Emmaus narrative of Luke show they match each other more closely than any other two Jesus descriptions to a significance level of 98%.)

5. Quantitative Content Analysis of Jesus Texts
Analysis of thematic content of Jesus texts; part of the above study.

6. Critique of John Meier's Argument in A Marginal Jew in Light of the New Evidence

7. Conclusions: Answers to Scholar's Frequently Asked Questions
The conclusions drawn from the discovery. Was the passage a forgery? Did Josephus write any of it, and if so, which parts? This section shows how these past puzzles of the Jesus account of Josephus can be resolved.

8. Bibliography

9. Appendix: Robert Eisler on the Testimonium Flavianum

Flavius Josephus Home Page

Thanks for pointing out this fraud. How come we have no book of Joseph? hmmmm? Now there were twelve witnesses that swear Joseph(coincidence?)Smith, received 12 gold plates of scripture, but none have ever been found, this is 11 more witnesses than your one, should we all not believe in Mormonism now? Genero you've got alot to learn, and you call yourself youth pastor, you sir,/madam, are a total fraud.
I'm now Bibical Scholar, since titles are free and cheap and self-appointed.

Anonymous said...

At least the "true" Joseph, a.k.a., Joseph Smith, was smart enough to create his own version of inspired doctrine, by interpreting the KJV bible, and publishing his own line of "apologetics" and "interpretation".

"One of the four standard works accepted as scripture by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, the Pearl of Great Price includes various documents known as "Selections from the Book of Moses," "The Book of Abraham," "Joseph Smith—Matthew," "Joseph Smith—History," and "The Articles of Faith."

It was first published at Liverpool, England, in 1851 by Franklin D. Richards, then president of the British Mission and a member of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, in response to requests from converts for further information about their new church. In addition to selected revelations from Genesis in the Joseph Smith Translation of the Bible (JST) and the book of Abraham, the 1851 edition contained Matthew 24 as revealed to the Prophet Joseph Smith in 1831 (currently titled joseph smith—Matthew); "A Key to the Revelations of St. John" (now D&C 77), a revelation received by Joseph Smith on December 25, 1832 (now D&C 87); and Joseph Smith's 1838 account of his early visions and translation of the Book of Mormon (now joseph smith—history). It also incorporated certain extracts from the Doctrine and Covenants (sections 20, 107, and 27), thirteen untitled statements previously published in the Times and Seasons in March 1842 and now known as the Articles of Faith, and a poem titled "Truth" that later became the LDS hymn "Oh Say, What Is Truth?"

Well, the real Joseph, translated the Book of Mormon from the stack of golden plates dropped from heaven with a couple of magic stones mentioned in the OT. Then, he gave his Translation of the KJV Bible, the Pearl of Great Price, Doctrine and Covenants, and of course, the Article of Faith. A real modern day, "writer-publisher"... a Self-Proclaimed Prophet...

Well, I think this quote says it all, and the historical recollection is pretty accurate on this web-page.

"There's two ways to look at Joseph Smith, founder of the Mormon Church. On the one hand you can view him as a fraud -- a monomaniacal polygamist, an opportunist who shamelessly exploited his religious followers, who was murdered by an angry mob, infuriated by all his bullshit. On the other hand, you could be a Mormon. In which case, he's the greatest man who ever lived. Your call."

Well, I'm going with the first option. Anyway, since we are now down to some real religious foundations. Lets see what the mormons believe about their sacred underwear.

"Airman 1st Class Andrew Howells of Salt Lake City says his commander threatened to kick him out of his unit if he did not remove his sacred religious undergarments. His commander complained that the garments worn by faithful members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints showed through his uniform."

"Church members are instructed to wear the symbolic clothing at all times and to remove it only for very specific activities.",1249,635157778,00.html

Well, there goes conformity and standards. While the religious are at it, perhaps they can go ahead and remove being called in on their day of rest to protect their country. What do standards mean anyway, they're just a form of discipline and unity (kind of like what ol' Constantine I was faced with, I suppose).

Well, anyway, on Josephus, Origen, one of the original Roman Church founders states in regard to Josephus' writings;

"However, it is significant that Origen, writing in about AD 240, fails to mention it, even though he does mention the less significant reference to Jesus as brother of James, which occurs later in Antiquities of the Jews (bk. 20, ch. 9). Origen also states that Josephus was "not believing in Jesus as the Christ" (Cels, bk. 1, ch. 47) "he did not accept Jesus as Christ" (Comm. Matt. X.17), and "he says nothing of the wonderful deeds that our Lord did" (Stromateis II.2) but the testimonium declares Jesus to be Christ. Starting in the 17th century, this has given rise to the suggestion presented by Protestant philologists that the Testimonium Flavianum did not exist in the earliest copies, or did not exist in the present form."

Josephus seems to have been given some additional citations without his own knowledge through history. That's Okay, it appears a figure by the name Jesus was also quoted without his knowledge if he actually did live. Joseph Smith, was killed by an angry mob, Jesus was brought to the Roman Army by traditional account by an angry mob of Jews, both Joseph Smith and Jesus were put to death because of the actions of an angry mob. Joseph wanted to be just like Jesus, even unto death it appears. Joseph had the Quorom of 12, Jesus had 12 disciples, and on and on.

I wonder if the Mormons have a personal line of special prophylactics. Mormons believe having children is a blessing, so fervently, that if a woman isn't trying to have children or isn't capable, she is to be pitied, hence, special underwear for males. Got to keep the little guys free of obstruction, and heat, as that reduces sperm motility.

Religion, should not be permitted in the military, it does nothing but separate, and create continuous issues. Anyway, to end, Josephus was a fraud, and traitor if anyone would care to read his history. But, per the Mormons, he may have been just wearing underwear that were too tight, which made him historically impotent.

Anonymous said...

Listen folks, we do not care whether Jesus lived or not, we just want a historical Icon to guide us to direct our focus on our own internal insanity.

Had the myth of Jesus never been invented, we would have chosen another figure to worship. Of ourselves we can do nothing, but with an imaginary god, we can control masses with their mind and their money. This has been going on for thousands of years, so it must all be true, logical people would not let this fraud rein supreme for so many years, had the Bible not been from divine intervention.

Anonymous said...

Fundy Movement: "Of ourselves we can do nothing,"

How mentally and physically emasculate of yourself. Some aren't so impassioned over such shallow zeniths, however, I can see how one as mentally languid as yourself can find comfort in your words. If your statement wasn't done of your own volition, then please tell your higher power, to quit being inane.

Anonymous said...

Christians come on here saying "God Spoke To My Heart"

First off your heart does not have a microphone built into it, so thats a lie.

Secondly the bible has been translated over 1600 times, so if God speaks to anyone it must be translated over 1600 times before anyone can understand what god said.

Anonymous said...

I've asked myself how something as ludicrous as christianity could last for thousands of years. The truth is, nobody knows. Perhaps those "logical people" have been deceived by the church into believing in nonsense. They may seldom read their bibles and never see the many problems with that book. They might simply never question. They might simply go to the nearest church when they want to have some sense of "communion" with God, assuming God exists, and the nearest church is christian. They might have been scared into believing by the doctrine of eternal torment. Some may prefer the sense of safety they have, believing that they are "saved," some perhaps want to belong to a community. In the early days of the church, christianity was forced on people and other religions were attacked and some of their members murdered. It grew by bloodshed. Some christians may simply believe as they are told.

Anyway, it doesn't matter. Christianity is still nonsense.

One may point out that one third of the world believes in christianity, yet one must then point out that two thirds of the world does not believe in it, either.

Anonymous said...

You know what? You all should be ashamed of yourselves! GOD (acknowlegde that I capitalize the name unlike yourselves...)Has probably proven himself to you many times, and this is how you respond? Ever wonder why that car didn't hit you? Ever ponder as to why you aren't dead when something dangerous occured in your lives? I am not one to look down, but this is downright wrong. I suggest you stop with the nonsense that you have created on this web and accept Him back into your lives. Stop being bitter and identify the true Christian Lord Jesus Christ. It will be good for you. You know the life you led. Be a reborn Christian.

boomSLANG said...

Be a reborn Christian.

Be an INVISIBLE non-exist, just like your ggggggggggggggod.

south2003 said...

Fundie: You know what? You all should be ashamed of yourselves!

You ought to be a shame following that book.

Fundie: GOD (acknowlegde that I capitalize the name unlike yourselves...)Has probably proven himself to you many times, and this is how you respond?

“Has? Lol. Absentee fathers are the worst. Your god (lower case “g”) is a dead beat dad.

Fundie: Ever wonder why that car didn't hit you?

‘Cause your mama didn’t
have drink……DWI!

Fundie: Ever ponder as to why you aren't dead when something dangerous occured in your lives?

Oh, I had the flu, so the following year I decided to get the flu shot.

Fundie: I am not one to look down, but this is downright wrong.

And it’s downright wrong bad mouthing Thor.

Fundie: I suggest you stop with the nonsense that you have created on this web and accept Him back into your lives.

Did you hear that WM? Bend over for your godly spankings…LMAO!

Fundie: Stop being bitter and identify the true Christian Lord Jesus Christ.

Will the real god step forward.

Fundie: It will be good for you.

What will be good for you is to Get hooked on Phonics!

Fundie: You know the life you led.

Yep, still leading it and it is good. Great sex and good wine. Can’t beat that.

Fundie: Be a reborn Christian.

I was born right the first time.

Steven Bently said...

GOD is spelled with caps, therefore this is 100% proof that a G-O-D exists!

Anonymous said...

Hey Southern Melody, hope you're doing well. Great post. Hopefully there is a response forthcoming, with some re-hashed fundie thought... :-)

Have a great one - Seli

Anonymous said...

Anonymous-11/01/2006-5:53-PM-EST: "You all should be ashamed of yourselves! GOD (acknowlegde that I capitalize the name unlike yourselves...)"

Gosh, that had escaped my attention until you pointed it out. But there it is in plain sight: Capital "G", capital "O", capital "D". I hereby acknowledge that you did indeed hold down the shift key as you typed "god". Let nobody claim otherwise.

Anonymous-11/01/2006-5:53-PM-EST: "...Has probably proven himself to you many times, and this is how you respond?"

Could you be more specific, please? The word "this" is a little vague.

Anonymous-11/01/2006-5:53-PM-EST: "Ever wonder why that car didn't hit you? Ever ponder as to why you aren't dead when something dangerous occured in your lives?"

Wow, did you see that guy cut me off this morning? How did you know about that? And yes, I constantly wonder why I'm not dead. I mean, here I am, obviously not dead. It's very perplexing.

Anonymous-11/01/2006-5:53-PM-EST: "I am not one to look down, but this is downright wrong."

Hmmmm. I'm having trouble with the word "this" again. Help me out here. I really don't wish to do anything wrong, especially downright wrong. That's got to be the worst kind of wrong.

Anonymous-11/01/2006-5:53-PM-EST: "I suggest you stop with the nonsense that you have created on this web and accept Him back into your lives."

Okay, I hereby cease all nonsense. I'm very serious now. Really. No, really. Well, almost.

Anonymous-11/01/2006-5:53-PM-EST: "Stop being bitter and identify the true Christian Lord Jesus Christ."

Oh dear, is he in a lineup or something? I do think I could pick him out; that is, if those portraits we see of him are any indication; you know, beard, long flowing auburn hair, robes, that type of thing. Very distinctive.

Anonymous-11/01/2006-5:53-PM-EST: "It will be good for you. You know the life you led. Be a reborn Christian."

I must admit, it all sounds very exciting. Do you have any glossy brochures that you could pass along? I'd very much like to learn more. Do you need my credit card number? (I prefer PayPal.)

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