I left god for good
Sent in by Laurie
In 2000 I became a born again Christian, I read the bible, I went to church, I listened to Christian music, I guess you could say I "lived" the Christian life. And I thought that all my Christian friends were such great people, so loving and caring and understanding. But then I really found out how wonderful those so called "Christian" friends were.
You see I was gay and when I came out of the closet those friends sure turned in a hurry. They were sure quick to point out that now I was going to hell, that I had turned my back on God and the church and as long as I was gay I couldn't know all the blessings God had in store for me. They even convinced me to go through one of those ex-gay classes at my church and for a short while I did and was convinced that I was straight.
But in the the year or more since I convinced myself I was straight I started questioning God and the bible. Why was it that certain things in the bible were wrong while other things were over looked and seemed to be ok in the eyes of the church and those so called Christians. I started to wonder why we needed to pray when it didn't seem like it was God doing all those wonderful things when in reality it had nothing to do with God buy rather how things worked out.
Then my family went through a very, very, ruff time and continues to do so. But when all those ruff times started I remember praying and praying and praying convinced that God was going to answer my prayer. Well time went on and on and on and God was doing nothing. He saw how my family was suffering and he was doing nothing. Then I was told that sometimes God's answer is no but there is a reason. I thought to myself why would God say no to this suffering that has been going on for so long? If God is such a loving person as they say he is then why won't he help when his children are in need?
The more I started to think about it the more I started to doubt God and his word more and more. I thought about all the terrible things God did in the bible, so much killing and so much suffering. How could this so called loving God be so mean and vindictive?
A few months ago I left God for good and I can't even begin to tell you the weight that was lifted off my shoulders. I didn't have to worry about what I was doing or saying every second of the day. I didn't have to worry whether I was offending God and whether I would get into heaven one day. And I could finally live and be myself, my true self as a lesbian. My self-hatred went away, I began to accept myself and to live free and happy. That is something I could never have done with the weight of God hanging on my shoulders.
I am so glad that I finally saw the light, the light without God.
In 2000 I became a born again Christian, I read the bible, I went to church, I listened to Christian music, I guess you could say I "lived" the Christian life. And I thought that all my Christian friends were such great people, so loving and caring and understanding. But then I really found out how wonderful those so called "Christian" friends were.
You see I was gay and when I came out of the closet those friends sure turned in a hurry. They were sure quick to point out that now I was going to hell, that I had turned my back on God and the church and as long as I was gay I couldn't know all the blessings God had in store for me. They even convinced me to go through one of those ex-gay classes at my church and for a short while I did and was convinced that I was straight.
But in the the year or more since I convinced myself I was straight I started questioning God and the bible. Why was it that certain things in the bible were wrong while other things were over looked and seemed to be ok in the eyes of the church and those so called Christians. I started to wonder why we needed to pray when it didn't seem like it was God doing all those wonderful things when in reality it had nothing to do with God buy rather how things worked out.
Then my family went through a very, very, ruff time and continues to do so. But when all those ruff times started I remember praying and praying and praying convinced that God was going to answer my prayer. Well time went on and on and on and God was doing nothing. He saw how my family was suffering and he was doing nothing. Then I was told that sometimes God's answer is no but there is a reason. I thought to myself why would God say no to this suffering that has been going on for so long? If God is such a loving person as they say he is then why won't he help when his children are in need?
The more I started to think about it the more I started to doubt God and his word more and more. I thought about all the terrible things God did in the bible, so much killing and so much suffering. How could this so called loving God be so mean and vindictive?
A few months ago I left God for good and I can't even begin to tell you the weight that was lifted off my shoulders. I didn't have to worry about what I was doing or saying every second of the day. I didn't have to worry whether I was offending God and whether I would get into heaven one day. And I could finally live and be myself, my true self as a lesbian. My self-hatred went away, I began to accept myself and to live free and happy. That is something I could never have done with the weight of God hanging on my shoulders.
I am so glad that I finally saw the light, the light without God.
Comments
"Of all the problems that humans face, why would we also choose to spend time (hours)muttering to the invisible nothing. Then, take classes to learn to do it better."
Great statement clair !!!! I could see those words on billboards across the nation.
Hey Laurie,
So now you are what I have seen called an ex-exgay. I was raised by parents who were God believers but could never embrace Christianity because of the gay issue. My dad's first cousin was gay and came of age in the 1940's. This wonderful man told my father of all his self hated and the many cures he sought for his gayness religious and not, back in the days when it was considered a psycological disorder. He finally came to the realization he was born that way, and cousin Clint was accepted by the whole family.
I am so happy you have escaped the cult so to speak and are able to live your life free of guilt. I wish you much happiness and please don't be a stranger around here.
P.S. Hope the family situation gets ok.
Although I am not homosexual, I went through a divorce (my choice to leave the marriage) and all my Christian friends did the same thing to me. Being apart from the social structure of church, I realized there was nothing left. No God to help me, just myself.
I realized that the inner conviction of "the Holy Spirit" I used to feel was nothing more than my own self telling me what was best for me. It is a built in part of humanity that we all share in common, and it lies uniquely in each of us and not some larger being with one set of rules for everyone the same.
In my search (and really as a form of therapy), I started a documentary about divorce in the church and began talking to people with the same circumstances. While doing this, I ran across a film called "In God We Trust". It is about 'ex-ex gays', as xrayman mentioned. You should check it out, it may speak to you.
Again, congratulations on coming back to your real self. Take care.
http://www.firstrunfeatures.com/onenationundergoddvd.html
I was once "lost" too but found myself through freethought and such. I find I am so much happier than my previous life with "God".
I also find myself much more accepting of others no matter who or what they are labeled. Growing up in the south I had many pre-conceived ideas that I am glad to be rid of as an atheist.
Good luck with your family problems and I wish you only the best life has to offer.
Thats as offensive as some heterosexual always throwing it in your face.
Keep your pants on and quit trying to force everyone else into your sex hangup.
I used to pride myself on taking the high road in situations like this...but I think I'm going to try a different tack today...
Anonymous, Fuck off.
There goes the high road. I'm sick of people like this acting as if any positive mention of homosexuality is "throwing it in your face". Invariably, these people think the same thing about two men or women holding hands in public, or sitting with their arms around each other, but never think that straight people doing the same thing is "throwing it in your face".
Laurie, congratulations. For me, my sexuality (in your face, anony!) also started my journey toward deconversion. Some christian friends and family believe I have deconverted because I'm gay and I needed to 'reject god' in order to live 'that lifestyle'. It makes them feel better, I guess, to think that. But the truth is, one of the reasons I DID start seeking out whether or not the bible is the 'literal, inerrant word of god" is because I knew I was gay. It occurred to me that if I was going to spend my life repressing who I am because of what the bible says (which I was trying to do , by the way), then I'd better at least study both sides of the story. All my life I'd been taught that the bible would stand up to scrutiny, and so I didn't seriously consider that this would lead to my loss of faith. In fact, I thought it would just confirm that it was all true.
Imagine my surprise when my House of Cards fell so quickly. Google could very well become the death of fundamentalist Christianity, because it didn't take long for me to find all sorts of information from the 'other side' to read. And when I did, I also found it made a whole lot more sense than the BS I'd been fed all of my life.
I discovered that whether I was gay or straight, this stuff still was unreasonable to believe. Deconversion was a difficult and lonely process, but it was also a liberating one as well. I discovered that I am okay as I am. I discovered that I actually like myself this way.
Thank you so much for sharing your story, Laurie.
That is exactly right!
I couldn't have said it any better.
"Why do gays always have to throw it in your face?
Thats as offensive as some heterosexual always throwing it in your face.
Keep your pants on and quit trying to force everyone else into your sex hangup."
I don't see anyone throwing anything in anyone's face. People have the right to share who they are with others if they desire to do so.
Nobody is trying to force others into a sex hangup. I don't know where you got that idea, however it seems to me that people like you are trying to conform everyone else to what the mainstream (Prejudice Biggots) want.
Grow up.
Go back to church. Don't worry. We won't miss you on here.
The girl looks down at the wheel with a bewildered look on her face. The father repeats what he told her before, putting emphasis on the clutch part. She tries again; the same thing happens. Her little brother is kicking the back of her seat and making fun of her; she can't concentrate, so she makes the same mistake again.
Finally, after a couple more tries, she gives up. There are tears in her eyes as she gets out and slams the door, throwing the keys on the ground and running off to her friend's house, determined to never humiliate herself by trying to drive again.
Meanwhile, the father is sitting in the car, almost in tears himself, knowing the relationship he had with his daughter will more than likely be strained after this.
As a hetero male, I would be delighted if lesbians wish to throw their sex in my face. ;}
Chibiq,
A girl needs to learn how to drive a car. She is convinced by someone to let her godfather teach her.
She tries to contact her godfather, who has never been a part of her life. She calls a phone number that someone, who claims to know him, told her was his. It rings and rings, but ther is never an answer.
She tries writing to him at an address that was given to her by someone who claims to know him. She writes several letters and gets no response.
She realizes that she has never had one bit of credible evidence that she even has a godfather and decides to go to a professional driving instructor.
Here's the point, I think:
It is better to learn to drive automatic at first.
;)
Huh. I thought the line was "why are gays always trying to stuff it down our throats". (You'd be surprised how many times I've seen that written by homophobes. Repressing maybe?)
Anyway, sexual orientation IS a big deal because conservative christians are constantly obsessing about it, and always trying to control the sexual behavior of others. Their constant harping on the "deviant" and "sinful" behavior of gays and lesbians makes sexual orientation a very valid issue to someone's deconversion. It certainly was to my gay brother.
So anonybot, if you don't want to hear about it, you should just stay in your basement and let the adults talk.
Also, to chibiq; Unlike the girl in your charming allegory, most of us here actually learned to drive, listing to the instructions giving to us by the human in next seat. However, unlike you, we did not stop at learning to drive, we also studied the manual and deconstructed the car to look at the engine. Inside the fuel tank, we found fossilized carbon compounds and no God.
Also; getting hit on by a gay guy does not qualify having his "gayness" thrown in your face.
Finally, after 45 minutes of trial and error, and various attempts to communicate with "her father", she was finally able to get the car in and out of gear on HER OWN. ~ The end.
This parable brought you by Chibiq's smarter brother.
http://www.conservapedia.com/Homosexuality
and then this:
http://www.conservapedia.com/Special:Statistics
Because if they don’t, then their God, who loves us and wants the best for us, will burn us in HELL for all eternity. Can you imagine the pressure?
I've found that those types of Christians (the ones under so much pressure they feel the need to assure anyone with beliefs other than their own, that we will roast in hell)are usually the same ones who like to slow down and get a good look at an automobile wreck with injuries.
The reason why most christians like to focus on "sexual orientation" so much is because they don't want to focus on their own hypocrisy and the sin that most of them live in.
Most christians would do well to mind their own business and go look in a mirror when they start preaching and passing judgment on others.
What a sad and pitiful statement. I'm sorry to hear that you have a very low opinion of yourself. I understand because it makes sense that you would need a crutch in order to feel good about yourself.
Even as a christian I still felt bad about myself, actually I felt worse about myself to tell you the truth. Then after I left christianity, and started believing in my own abilities to make things happen and accomplish goals, that is when I started having self esteem and I finally started loving myself.
Having faith in an invisible "Hear-Say" magical, imaginary friend did nothing for me. I found no comfort in Jesus, nor did he ever comfort me. Yes, I am truly happy outside of the christian faith. It feels really good to once and for all be free from the oppression called "Christianity".
It seems that christians feel the need to come onto an "Anti-Christian" website and preach to us. I can't speak for everyone else on here, but I doubt if most people who post on this site feels any need to go to a "Christian Website" to post Anti-Christian messages on it.
It is obvious that it is the christians who post on this site who have a problem. We are a threat to their belief system, and when they read posts about how so many of us escaped the bondage that most christians live in it scares them and it threatens their belief system.
I was once that way. As a christian I was miserable, and anytime I saw a happy atheist or non-believer it made me angry, because it made me have doubts about the christian faith being valid, and god couldn't seem to do anything to make me feel any different about it. I didn't want to abandon the faith, however it was not working for me, and I had several other non-believers point that fact out to me. I then realized that Jesus being a personal friend who was looking out for my best interest was a really bad joke. That is when I left the faith.
I want to thank every single christian who posts on here for constantly reminding me why I am so glad to no longer be a part of your faith. Thanks for reminding me how foolish and stupid I was as a christian.
The more biblical propaganda that christians quote, along with the judgmental opinions that christians make on here, the more it makes me realize just how glad I made the decision to leave christianity.
I don't think these same christians who post on here seem to realize they only validate mine and several others points of how faulty their faith really is. They are only shooting themselves in the foot by posting their bible scripture and other forms of christian manipulation on this site.
I very seriously doubt if anyone who is a "Non-believer" who posts on this site has ever been converted back to the faith because of some post that a christian left on here.
You would think that as almighty and powerful that the christian god is supposed to be that he wouldn't need lowly humans to do his work for him, and you would think that god would take notice and realize that his messengers are not getting the job done.
I see no power nor credibility with any christian who preaches on a continous basis on or off of this site. All I hear is a bunch of cheap talk with no power of action behind it. Jesus says this, and Jesus says that, BLAH! BLAH! BLAH! and then some of them come up with certain claims and stories that god personally encountered them like we are naive enough to believe their stories. Seems god can't deliver the message himself for some reason.
These christians have done me a favor and they don't even realize it. Thanks to all christians who post on here for reminding me why I left your cult.
I also want to tell all christians who post on this site to keep up the good work of exposing your hypocrisy and all of the biblical lies. You're all doing a great job! :)
P.J. your I.Q must be well over 100. Very profound statements from you. I'm sure if you would have been alive in the days of the caveman they would have carved your prolific words into rocks.
Please read the site disclaimer, and then read more than one or two of the hundreds of testimonials posted on the site before you start making asinine statements about what you think people should do based on your teenage experiences. M-kay?
I lost 30 years of my life in the FALSE CULT of Christianity, and I'm still a bit pissed about it. Fortunately, none of the other false gods captured my imagination, but because of my upbringing and the culture I belonged to, Christianity was able to enslave my mind for years.
People who escape a religious cult, generally do need to talk about it. If you don't understand that, then that's just too damned bad.
Why do you come here and try to tell us how we should act while doing the very same thing you tell us we should not do? Get lost.
I'm not far from being alive in the days of the caveman, but I certainly don't think I have said anything worthy of being carved in rocks. By the way, where is that rock that Moses supposedly brought down from the mountain? Seen it lately? But I can tell you this, I've lived long enough to see my very young daughter die a senseless death, and after having prayed with great fervor to a "being" that I finally realized wasn't there, or just wasn't listening that day, or just didn't give a crap, I finally came to the realization that we (humans) must take responsibility for our own lives and no one else.....not some preacher.....not some imaginary friend.....not some bible-thumping....concordance tottin'....so-called christian makes anything better for us than we can ourselves. Do you ever wonder mr/miss bring it 777 why we don't see any miracles nowadays? Do you ever wonder nowadays why we don't see the sky open and some wondrous vision doesn't appear to us and give us all that wisdom that our forefathers received hundreds of years....thousands of years ago to guide us and make us feel so secure and righteous in our little smug lives now? It's because it never happened to begin with. There may have been a Jesus at one time----in fact, I'm sure there probably was. I'm sure he was probably a very wise and loving man. But that's what he was, a man. He had groupies just like Jon Bon Jovi has groupies today.....maybe a little more fanatical than Jon's groupies, but just the same groupies. And you, my dear little 'bring it 777' are just one of those groupies. Grow up. It's obvious from your very 'prolific' words that you have not lived long enough or had enough life experiences to be telling anyone on this site what to believe in. Go play in your own backyard.
You obviously don't know who we are or what we have had to deal with. But rather than finding out for yourself by reading the testamonials, you built a straw-man image of us(athiests)so you wouldn't have to.
Please, take the webmaster's advice and read up on what you are talking about before you post anything else.
Also, try useing a paragraph from time to time. Reading so many fallacies in one huge chunk, without a break, makes me want to vomit.
Your statement ---"God speaks through those who hold compassion deep within their souls."
Most of the comments on this site are from people 'who hold compassion deep within their souls'.
Perhaps he's speaking through some of us right now!!! Do you hear? By the way, why must he speak through other people? Why doesn't he just speak to each of us himself? I know, I know, you're going to say he speaks to us through the Bible. Well, I'm one of those people who seem to comprehend better when spoken to directly.
Next time you decide you have to share one of your earth-shattering revelations with us--please think twice about it. Most of the drivel I hear from people like you is the same old song time after time.
Actually, that was a pretty legit' question up until you said "christian haters". Check this out, "Bring it"---for those of us who are former Christians, many of us still have friends, family members, and even spouses who are still members of the Christian Faith(cult). So obviously, we don't "hate" them as human beings, in fact, quite the opposite...... on the other hand, yes, many have come to "hate" the Christian belief, itself...the same way we'd "hate it" if they were addicted to the false "high" of smack. 'Follow?
"Bring it"...For the record, judging every person [who] claims to be a christian is as accurate as a hypocritical christian judging you guys.
For the record, every Christian "claims to be a Christian"; there is no other way to be a "Christian". Additionally, the over-riding point isn't to "judge" people; the point is to show that people, are people, are people, are people.... and that no one is being "guided" by an invisible spook.
"Bring it"...I am not miserable nor do I hold any contempt for anyone of ANY religion.
That's good...but how about people of non-religion? Just checkin'.
"Bring it"...There seems to be a lot of contempt in the paragraphs that I see before me.
And rightfully so.
"Bring it"...I am not perfect, I am no better than someone who is gay and I have never claimed to be.
Again, you miss the point---it's not about "perfect". No one is "perfect", regardless of where they put their penis, or what Deity they subscribe to. However, many people of religious faith use their holy books to justify their own prejudice. As if the Creator of the Universe would actually care if people eat shellfish, or have foreskin on their genitals. Absurd. That's right, we're saying the notion is bloody ABSURD. We're saying those "Laws" were created by the primitive, uneducated, sand-dwelling people of ancient history....NOT a "God".
"Bring it"...I just don't understand why someone would [waste] their time speaking and writing against a god that they don't believe in. Example: I don't believe in trolls so I will probably never write a book on them. If I were a non-believer then I would just be a non-believer, nothing more.
I agree, you don't understand. Okay, let me attempt to help you: First, we are not addressing "God"; we are addressing those who believe in "God", particularly the Christian biblegod. Secondly, Atheism, or the non-belief in "God"/gods, would be totally unnecessary if it were not for Theists INSISTING that, a) their particular god exists, and b) that must accept their belief, lest we be roasted in their religion's respective "hell", for eternity.
Now, assuming you comprehend that much, if people were INSISTING that "trolls" existed, and likewise, that we MUST adopt this belief, lest there be the same "consequences"?..then we'd likely have cause to create a word for the NON-belief in "trolls", as well. 'Follow?
"Bring it"...I wouldn't debate christians on a god they believe in if I didn't believe.
Did you happen to notice an open invitation to christians to come inside this blog? I didn't. It seems EX-christian would be self-explanatory, but apparently not.
"Bring it"...Come on guys, if you don't [believe] then just move on and be happy. I would.
The day theists stop pushing their theology on me--mind you, while not having one drop of evidence to support said theology--is the day I'll "move on". BTW, did you "bring" any evidence, "Bring it"?
PS: Anonymous--'don't know if that was tongue in cheek, but the contraction for "you are" is you're.
My little anony mouse--first of all there is nothing to 'get back to'.
I would just bet that your narrow-minded version of god would not approve of your scare tactics either if he were there to 'get back to'.
I bet you're one of those little biddies that likes to scare little kids with the 'boogie man' when they misbehave.
I can just see you....sitting there in your little pew....with your little self-righteous mouth screwed up in a little smug, tight-lipped smirk.
Pray tell, how many Hail Marys must I say; how many times should I say the rosary; how many times must I prostrate myself on my face in front of the crucifix before I receive your forgiveness?
If there is such a place as hell, when you get there, I'll be the one holding the pitchfork with you on the other end of it.
Yup. You believe because you believe because you believe because you believe, ad infinitum.
ROTFLMAO! I'm cracking up over this description of christinsanity in a nutshell, but somehow I suspect that Bring It might not be intelligent enough to understand why it's so laughable.
Christians get if the face of gays and others, not the other way around. My dad is a major Homophobe, and I am a strong supporter of Gay rights. He also used to condemn for lusting after girls when I was a teenager, and now for a being a vegetarian.
Fuck off anonyomous!
It is God who turned his back on me. I tested scripture to find god's will, and I followed scripture and guess what? It didn't work.
Me leaving christianity was just a matter of applying this one rule, "What works in the real world VS What the bible says".
It had nothing to do with other christians. You guys only enforce my disbelief about christianity. You can't seem to realize that you are just validating my claims even more. I now see you christian cultists as being weak and stupid if you want to know the blunt and honest truth. You remind me of what I use to be, and I don't like it, and I want nothing to do with it.
I don't know why christians like you can't seem to get that through your narrow minded head. Of course, I realize that christianity blinds people, because it had me blind for many years. I wasted some of the best years of my life chasing after bible god.
Do yourself a favor and stay out of other people's business. I believe that people have a right to live anyway they want to as long as it is not illegal or it does not bring harm to someone else.
I would love to see the day where christians end up in jail for harassing others with their faith.
This country is for every single person no matter what their beliefs are or their sexual preference. It is none of anyone elses business if someone is gay or not. Keep your holier than thou values to yourself and leave other people alone.
You also might want to think about doing something more productive with your life like getting a job, instead of trying to be Moses. Stop shoving your crap down other people's throats. You christians are a one big joke, and I do not take anything you say serious. If I were god I would not be very happy with the people who represent me, because all of you christians are making yourselves look immature, and foolish.
Get a life, and grow up! *rolls eyes*
But then again, I dont accept the Bible as fact. I dont believe that the sun stood still for 3 days unnoticed by anyone but the Israelites. (Mayans, Incas, Egyptians, Babylonians, Chinese and Japanese were meticulous record keeping astronomers and NONE of them bear record of that. I dont believe in immaculate conception, but I CAN see me saying "Honey, Im pregnant, but I am still a virgin, because he was a GOD!" And then hoping that my man is stupid enough to believe that bs. I do not believe that ANY human could survive days in the belly of a fish, whale or other sea creature. My understanding of anatomy tells me that he would be digested and would suffocate, as stomach acid is NOT breathable air. Cute stories, but they TOTALLY disprove the bible.
Oh, and the earth only being 6000 years old? HELLO? Ever hear of Anthropology?????? WAKE UP, the Bible is NOT a perfect book. It does have significant value with much intelligence and wisdom, but it is FLAWED in many many areas that have been DISPROVEN by science and common sense.
Hey Anonymous, go stick your head up God/Jesus' ass.
Jesus was gay also. He hung out with 12 men.
Due to the fact that Jesus who is also "God The Father" impregnated Mary by raping her, he had sex with his own mother so he could be born.
So therefore, Jesus was gay and he was a rapist who believe in having sex with his mother.
Shame on you christians for worshiping a sick and twisted pervert like that.
I also have sex with the anonymous christian brother who has posted on here also. He is my "Butt Brother In Christ".
#2 Jim Earl? Did you by chance play a part in the movie deliverance? Very good counter-attack by you my friend. Your life must be complex because you sure have a lot to say
#3 You have no idea about my life experiences P.J.. You made some very good points and there are some things that you said that I agree with but it seems to me that it is just as hard to believe that we came from a rock as it is to believe that we came from god. The rock doesn't speak either. By the way, I don't want to play in my back yard that's why I came to yours.
#4 This one is for stronger now. I hate paragraphs but because I care I seperated each statement just for you. If it makes you sick to read more than a few words run together then that would explain why you are an atheist. You never got through the first chapter of genesis because you had to get up to take your flintstone vitamin. Awwww...
#5 Boomslang seems to to be the most intelligent of the crowd. I understand much of what you are saying and yes I will admit that I have a lot to learn about the belief system of others. I will admit that from time to time I am utterly confused by atheists. There are those that don't believe and never wish to speak about it. Then there are those who seem to hold a well of contempt for believers and search for every opportunity to display their anger. If a man belives in nothing then why try to fight against it? I would like to hear more of your thoughts on this boomslang. However, you don't have to quote me repeatedly to establish your point. I know what I'm speaking when I speak it. I would like to hear your thoughts.
#6 Somehow I get the feeling if P.J. gets his hands on a pitchfork then it will be used for something more self gratifying than homicide. Huh P.J.?
#7 Thackerie finds it amusing to offer a little piece of his personal history by voluntarily giving us the first initial of all of his ex-wives. ROTFLMAO. Did the preacher in church tell you that it was wrong to commit adultery 8 times? That's why you lost the faith huh? Maybe you should become a mormon and purchase a duplex in Salt Lake City for the next to come.
#8 First of all my dear I have had a job for a very long time. Also, if I were moses then I would start by parting through that junk that you call a response so that I could get to the other side where the truth resides. I can tell that a lot of you people plaguerized your essays in school. If you are going to let your responses consist merely of quotes from other people with opinions then why respond at all?
#9 The last comment from the anonymous guy (who claims that I slept with his mom and that is where he came from) seems very angry. I do not know your mother nor have I ever slept with one of your brothers who you claim is a so called "butt buddy in christ." Look, I told you that if you didn't stop following me onto these websites and sending me pictures of you in the bath tub as a child that I would report you. This is your last warning!
It's so good to see you growing in your 'Christian Experience'.
Oh, and, Boomslang, I'm jealous that Bring It thinks you're more intelligent than anyone else here. I'll really cry myself to sleep tonight over that one.
Please re-read my post to you.
If you continue to play the part of a troll, all your posts will be deleted.
To everyone. Please don't feed the troll.
Thanks.
Don't be "jealous", PJ; I'm certainly far from the most intelligent on this board. On the other hand, I'm quite confident that I know what I don't believe, and I can defend that position with a fair amount of ease and certitude.
Welp, I'll refrain from "feeding the troll", even though I had some thoughts on "Bring it's" projection/mischaracterization that Atheists..um, "believe in nothing". Lol! Good grief!....'heard of a false dichotomy?
Seems to me you are the angry one since you choose to post your "Immature and childish" comments on here. Oh, and btw for someone who is a christian you sure don't display the love of your Jesus. Instead you display nothing more than immature, foolish behavior. Does hiding behind a computer and hurling insults at others make you feel brave? Awwww......Did mommy and daddy not give you enough attention when you were growing up?
Bring It On, you are nothing more than a hypocrite, and you have done nothing but made yourself look foolish on here. You use Christianity as a weapon to attack and insult others. You have made a complete fool out of yourself. You are nothing more than a little immature juvenile. Before you claim that you are an adult, just remember that age has nothing to do with maturity.
Even though I am not a christain, I do know christians who would disapprove of your immature behavior. They would give you a solid rebuke, and you would be compared to a pharisee and a pagan.
Anyone who claims that they are so content with their own life would not be over here posting the kind of immature garbage that you have been posting. You expect for us to believe that you are so happy and content with life when it is "YOU" who decided to come onto this site and sticking your nose where it does not belong.
As far as your job is concerned, how long have you been working at McDonalds now Bring It On? Are they getting ready to promote you to doing fries yet?
Bring It On Wrote: "if I were moses then I would start by parting through that junk that you call a response so that I could get to the other side where the truth resides."
Your "So Called Truth" is nothing more than your "Opinion". All of your responses have been nothing more than pure trash. I feel sorry for someone like you Bring It On, who has nothing else better to do than sit around on their pathetic little butt surfing the interent and, talking down to others who do not subscribe to your belief system.
You remind me of a Nazi with the hatred that you spread in regards to intolerance. You are the one who is spreading hatred by making your attacks against others on here. You are the one who started trouble on this site. So don't come on here whining about how we have so much hatred towards someone like you.
Thanks once again for showing us the true behavior of most christians. You give your precious Jesus no credibility.
Once again, grow up.
I would be angry too if I was still a christian considering that they are losing the battle against reality, and Jesus keeps on failing to show his face. All christians know how to do is quote some out of date ancient text, and insult others. That is how weak their case is against people who do not subscribe to their beliefs. Christians are madder than hell, and it shows. Thanks "Bring It 777" for showing all of us your true behavior, and proving our point. You are probably the dumbest SOB that has ever came onto this site.
Notice the behavior of "Bring It 777". He demonstrates the same typical patterned behavior that most christians display when they get frustrated because nobody will listen to what they have to say. Too bad Jesus won't help him prove his case.
Here is the way the typical christian operates:
1) Try to share the love of Christ by sharing the gospel. Tell them how much Jesus loves them, and why they need to accept him.
2) If people are still not willing to listen, then start attacking them and passing judgment on them by making threats of hell and damnation against them.
So,when the typical christian fails to prove their point and they can't seem to win souls for Christ, the next thing they do is start attacking others and talking down to them by spitting out the typical venom and hatred that most christians preach.
Christians are so predictable.
Now let's refer back to "Bring It 777's" original post on here. Notice the pattern.
He came on here with his little "I'm a nice guy" act. Then a few posts later he starts showing his true colors by insulting anyone who does not subscribe to his beliefs, which proves that "Bring It 777" can no longer debate effectively on here, so out of frustration he starts with his rude and crude behavior. He has already lost the argument, and he no longer has a winnable case against us.
As for a question from his original post:
BRING IT 777 SAID:
"I wouldn't debate christians on a god they believe in if I didn't believe. What would be the point?"
And the point of you coming onto this site causing trouble is?????
This site is for "Ex-Christians" and if we choose to vent our frustrations, that is our right. This site was created for people like us, not people like you.
As far as the point of us debating christians. People like myself are sick and tired of christians sticking their noses in all forms of government. They continue to try and oppress others who do not subscribe to their beliefs. People like myself have decided to stand up against "Christian Bullies" who want to try to conform this whole entire country over to a "Christian Dictatorship". Christians do not believe in true freedom.
True freedom is when all people are treated equally and not judged or look down on by someone else because of a stupid out of date religious belief.
I have nothing more to say to "Bring It", nor do I have any interest in reading what else he has to say.
I will now starve the troll.
" Call yourself a Christian! "...... " What kind of Christian are you? "....." Hypocrite "….” He is not a good Christian “....." She is so proud but she goes to church "......" I cant believe he is a Christian "....." Such a disgrace to Christianity "....." Lousy Christian "......." He is so rude but he goes to church "...... " Worldly Christian "......" I was so shock to find out she is a Christian! "..... " Sometimes Christians can be the worst "....." I had a bad experience with that Christian "...." He is not fit to be a Christian "...."What kind of a Christian leader is he? "....." He is a Christian but he smokes "....” .She gossips about people and she goes to church ".... "I'm so ashamed to call him a Christian"....." He is a Christian but speaks a lot of vulgar words "….." They are not good Christians "..…” What kind of testimony does he carry as a Christian “…..” She is a Christian who does not go to church “…..” Anti-Nomians “…..” She is not worthy to be a Christian “…..” So shameful, they are from a Christian family “…. ” She wears so much of make-up just to go to church“……………" Christian gays ".....
Sounds familiar???
Oh, I could go on and on but these are the words that were used to on Christians for many years till today. Why is there such a heavy burden for Christians? You rarely or would have never heard these words on people from other religions, if they do or say something Wrong, he / she as an individual would be criticized but not their religion, most of the time. But when a Christian does or say something wrong, they and their religion are being criticized and condemned. Is there a very high expectation on Christians? Is Christianity that hard?
Jesus said in Matthew 11:28
” Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy-laden and overburdened, and I will cause you to rest……. [I will ease and relieve and refresh your souls.] “
Many of us think that 'Christians' are good and moral ones. We think that we have to be good in thoughts, deeds and words all the time. This could be our idea or other people’s perspective of Christianity - JESUS IS GOOD so we have to be good. We have to be a good example's of JESUS; we are the ambassadors of CHRIST. We Christians have to be loving, kind, patient, generous, respectful, obedient, responsible, soft spoken, gentle, joyful, well mannered, faithful and many other good and moral deeds all the time. Many Christians suffers from great condemnation within because they think they have to be good and moral most of the time to show that they are good Christians.
They think that Christianity depends on their moral deeds and when they can't come up to that standard or they fail to do so, they condemn themselves and moreover people condemn them and the accuser, Satan also condemns them. How not to loose?! Usually most of them who feel condemned and think that they cannot come up to the standard of this "Christian Religion ", in due they leave church or back slide.
Nothing wrong with being good or moral. I will show in a while's time that you don't have TRY to be good but you have No choice but you would Want to be good but this time not in your goodness but Through HIS goodness with the help of the Holy Spirit. I'm sure the Holy Spirit does a Better work.……Think about it.
So who are christians???
And Jesus said to him, "Why do you call Me [essentially and perfectly morally] good? There is no one essentially and perfectly morally good--Except God alone" - Mark 10:18
Christians are not good ones, moral ones or perfect ones......Christians simply means Anointed Ones.
( CHRIST — ORIGIN Greek Khristos ‘Anointed one’ - )
" True Christians are Anointed ones; their Names expresses this: they are Anointed with GRACE, with gifts and spiritual privileges, BY the Holy Spirit of Grace" (Henry's Concise Commentary on the Bible)
"It is God Who confirms and makes us steadfast and establishes us in joint fellowship with you in Christ, and HE has consecrated and Anointed us, enduing us with the gifts of the Holy Spirit" - 2 Corinthians 1:21.
We are Anointed to be moral and good in thoughts, words and deeds. You know what I’m talking about, there was time when you use to have a certain bad habit (being rude, selfish, proud, vulgar, impatient, hot tempered, gossiping, lustful, ignorant, inconsiderate, lazy etc....) and now "suddenly" or "out of nowhere" you don’t have it anymore or it is less active in your life.
Most of the time we don't how to explain or we never expected to be the person that we are now. It is the Holy Spirit that changed us. The bible says that the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness.... - Galatians 5:22 (NIV). Have you noticed it says ' the Fruit of The Spirit..... ' It does not say the fruit of your spirit or the fruit of the evil spirit. It is the fruit of the Holy Spirit which is in you that gives you the qualities or the abilities to be good, do good and talk good. JESUS Himself was Anointed by GOD, " How God Anointed and Consecrated Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit with strength, ability and power; how He went about Doing good...."-Acts 10:38. How much more us. The Holy Spirit is the One who does the good work through us and I’m sure HE will do a better job, amen.
Relationship takes time
Many of us venture to say that Christianity is not a religion but a relationship. Did you know that a relationship takes time? GOD wants to love, fellowship, help and transform us unto HIS image in our Christian walk. Walking is a journey and journey takes time. We think that once we become a Christian, we immediately have to leave behind our bad habits, be holy, stay away from worldly people, worldly songs, movies, books and not dress up like the world. We even quote scriptures like "we are in this world but not of the world" and we are expected to change as soon as possible.
Now as a Christian we have to the read the bible, pray for many hours, go to church, lift up our hands, say "hallelujah" and start tithing. We also think that since we are "good, moral and faithful" people of God, we need to serve GOD. Once again, nothing wrong with all of these but if you have to do it or if you are obligated because this is your perception of being a Christian then its nothing more than religion and behavior modification. GOD does not want that, HE wants relationship and life transformation. That’s why HE gave the Holy Spirit to help us live our lives. Whatever happened to this verse??…" It is no longer I who live but it's Christ (Anointed) who Lives through me”. I love what Jesus said in John 16:7, " I am telling you nothing but the truth when I say it is profitable (good, expedient, advantageous) for you that I go away. Because if I do not go away, the Comforter (Counselor, Helper, Advocate, Intercessor, Strengthener, Standby) will not come to you into close fellowship with you; but if I go away, I will send Him to you to be in close fellowship with you - John 16:7.
JESUS wants to have a close fellowship with us. When we know that we respond back not being obligated but with love. Now, we don't Need (obligated) to read the bible but we Want to. We will start doing things that we WANT to not need to. Other religion will Need to do their prayers, devotions and many other stuffs for their gods but we don't need to do it. We would Want to. We cant help it. We are in love with our God who lives inside us. Christianity is not a religion but a relationship and love.
" For without Me you can do Nothing" - John 15:5 (NKJV)
Only JESUS can make you to be the person that HE wants you to be. You can't do it by yourself. "I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do Nothing. - John 15:5 (NKJV) Don't be baffled or disappointed when a Christian does or say something wrong. They are just Anointed Ones. Christians have the Anointing to be better people. If we say that being 'in this world and not of the world means to be good and moral then I know alot of people of other religions who are good and moral or even better behaved than Christians. So are we trying to say that they are also in the world but not of the world?
The Only thing that we Christians have that makes us 'not of the world' is the Anointing of the Holy Spirit. That’s the only explanation that can't be argued. Anything else then this, could be compared to people of other religions. We have the Anointing of God’s Spirit. I have heard people saying that you have to be very nice, friendly and loving so people will know that you are a Christian. So does Christianity depend on our goodness? People are attracted to Christians not because of their goodness but because of the favor of GOD and HIS goodness that is in them. For some reason people like Christians. Its a supernatural attraction. They are attracted by God's supernatural Favor or Grace.
Anointed to be Capable....
The bible is not cookbook. If you don't follow the recipe according to the cookbook then the food would not be good likewise many of us think that if we don't follow whatever the bible says then we are not good Christians. The bible is not meant to be followed. If we just need a book to tell us what to do and what not to do then JESUS does not have to come and die for us. We could have just followed the Torah or the law old testament, which no one could keep up to it.
Someone might argue by saying that there are many scriptures in the Gospel's that tells us to follow like ' Love our enemies and to do good to those who hate you - Luke 6:27, Let not your heart be troubled... - Matthew 6:34, Casting your cares upon HIM.... - 1 Peter 5:7, In the world you have tribulation, trials, distress and frustration; but be of Good cheer... - John 16:33, Let all bitterness and wrath (passion, rage, bad temper) and resentment (anger, animosity) and quarreling (brawling, clamor, contention) and slander (evil-speaking, abusive or blasphemous language) be banished from you, with all malice (spite, ill will, or baseness of any kind). And become useful, helpful and kind to one another, tenderhearted (compassionate, understanding, loving-hearted), forgiving one another [readily and freely], as God in Christ forgave you - Ephesians 4:31-32 and many other verses that tells us to follow or even when we are in church our Pastor tells us things to do or to follow.
Thank GOD for all these verses but it is not meant for us to follow. We need to understand that the bible is not a book of rules and regulations to follow (law) but it is there for us to know who we are in Christ, what we have in Christ and what Christ can do through us. When you read verses like ‘ Let not your heart be troubled, Casting your cares to the Lord and other verses from the Gospels, it simply means the You are Capable of doing it. You are capable of forgiving, casting your cares, not letting your heart be troubled, not worrying, praying in tongues and many other things that the bible tells us to do. We are capable of doing it because we are Anointed. The Holy Spirit Helps us to do it. The next time if Pastor tells you to believe, to confess, to rest, to pray, to forgive or any other things. GOD is trying to tell through Pastor that you are capable of doing it because his Spirit is you and HE will make you to do it.
You don't have to follow it (obligated) because the Holy Spirit will help you and teach you in all things, “ But the Comforter ( Counselor, Helper, Intercessor, Advocate, Strengthener, Standby), the Holy Spirit, Whom the Father will send in My name [in My place, to represent Me and act on My behalf], He will Teach you ALL things. And He will CAUSE you to Recall ( will Remind you of, bring to your remembrance) everything I have told you. - John 14:26.
You don’t have to stress yourself by thinking how to follow what the bible says or what our Pastor says. You are capable of doing it because the Holy Spirit is inside you. Let's say, a billionaire marries a daughter of beggar, she don't have to try to become rich. She is capable and she has no choice but to become rich. She will start to walk, talk and dress like a rich person. Though it takes time, she will be a different person. As time goes on, she is no more thinking as a daughter of a beggar but as a wife of a billionaire How much more when the Holy Spirit who lives in you. As time goes on, we start to think, talk and act like Jesus.
We are capable of becoming healthy, wealthy, moral and many other things that bible says that we can be. You don’t have to try to be good, you have no choice but to become good because the Good Shepherd lives inside you and you will start doing good and moral things out of HIS goodness that HE has placed and stored in your heart. “The good man brings good things out of the good stored up in his heart “- Luke 6:45
"And I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Comforter (Counselor, Helper, Intercessor, Advocate, Strengthener, and Standby) I will not leave you as orphans [comfortless, desolate, bereaved, helpless] " - John 14:18
Relax and let Christ live through you, amen
God himself created man and woman and placed them in a garden, in "his own image", but got righteously angry at them when they ate, against his wish, and after being tempted by a talking serpent that god himself had somehow allowed to slither about in the garden, a tasty, beautiful fruit, though he himself had placed it there but neglected to instill in his creations the knowledge of good and evil so that they would know it was wrong to eat it.
Being omniscient, of course, he knew all this before he started, but was apparently unable to do anything about it because he had planned it this way from the beginning, and apparently god cannot change anything he already knows, in spite of the fact that he's omnipotent, omniscient and omnibenevolent.
Later, God himself impregnated a virgin so that he himself could be born a human, a ManGod. This was necessary, apparently, because only his own ManGod blood could appease himself and deliver humans, who he created, and who he knew would muck things up by eating the fruit, from his own righteous anger.
Of course, he waited several thousand years to implement this divine plan, in the meantime taking the righteous action of drowning every creature on the planet except a few he could stuff on a boat. Not to mention handing down a Law that served to further condemn every one of us, and in which Law he himself had them frequently sacrifice animals to appease himself, though he knew the blood of animals didn't really appease himself.
Much later, god, in a garden, prayed to himself to "take this cup" away from himself, though he himself knew that he himself had planned the coming events from the beginning and knew that not even he himself could save himself, even though he was god and omnipotent, omniscient, etc. Accepting this, he said, in effect, "Not my will, but my will."
God then sacrificed himself to himself to save us from himself. (or had himself sacrificed; not much of a distinction between the two, really) Before dying, he himself asked he himself why he had forsaken himself.
He himself, being dead, then raised himself from the dead less than 40 hours later, though he himself had said he'd be dead for three days and three nights, which he could do because he was still alive, and later he himself pulled himself up into heaven where he himself apparently already was, and where he himself is described as now sitting at the right hand of himself.
He himself then sent himself (or a ghost of himself, if you please) back to earth to be a comfort to us, though he himself is still sitting at the right hand of himself.
And, glory hallelujah, he himself promised that he himself will return someday, though he himself is already here, and will still be there, to snatch up those who believe the god blood sacrifice story he himself told us, and kill the rest of us who don't believe the god blood sacrifice story, no matter how nice we were otherwise.
But, since killing us isn't enough to appease his righteousness, he himself will then judge us, though according to ManGod he himself will also not judge us, and being a god of love will cast most of us into hell for an eternity of suffering. He has to, of course, because he is a righteous, just god, and can't figure out a way to save anyone who hasn't been redeemed by god-blood, even though he is omniscient, omnipotent, and omnibenevolent, and loves us all.
Amen?
We are ex-Christians. This means, by definition, that:
1. We’ve heard all your puke before, and
2. We don’t buy it.
Hope this helps.
Yawn.
Many of you are unaware of the fact the "relationship-not-religion" theology arose in the late 20th century. I guess the Christians of the preceding 2000 years just didn't get it. But thank Gord you came along to set the record straight.
Who's a true Christian? Anyone that claims they are.
Game. Set. Match.
Doesn't matter to us what you say.
Christianity is still a religion regardless of what all of you fundy nuts say. I've heard that same cover up about "Christianity" not being a religion. It is all the same and it is all about mind control and manipulation.
You can't have a relationship with a dead man. Sorry but you can only have relationships with living breathing people who are flesh and bones and who are able to communicate verbally. Having a relationship with an imaginary friend never did anything for me. Having a relationship with Jesus is no more effective than having a relationship with a rock.
You christian pussies just can't leave people alone can you? You all just don't know when to shut the hell up.
What is your purpose for posting your "Biblical Bullshit" called scripture? Can you idiots not figure out that the bible is meaningless to all of us who are no longer christians?
You christians are truly stupid. None of you are qualified to even be debating us on this website. Unlike you current christians who are still enslaved to your false god, we have gained new information over the years which is why we left the faith in the first place. You christians are way behind us in knowledge and truth and none of you can see just how stupid you really are. I now see you christians as a bunch of pathetic losers.
None of you have any power or any influence of any kind and your holy spirit is nothing more than a worthless fart in the wind. So therefore your methods continue to fail. Nobody believes what you nuts have to say, so give it up. All you are doing is annoying others and proving how faulty your cultic faith is. Christians are nothing but little cockroaches who annoy people. If you christians were truly happy with your lives, you would have no need to shove your biblical lies down the throats of others.
We've all heard same crap before. It has nothing but a negative effect on us. If your god is so powerful, let him speak for himself and let him reveal himself, because nobody will listen to what any of you losers have to say. If your god can't make himself known in a more personal way then he is truly pathetic by sending a bunch of pathetic losers onto this site.
I do find it kind of funny that you christians love to quote your bible scripture and you people try so hard to convince others of your faulty gospel, but yet Jesus can't seem to do it himself, and he can't seem to get the message through more effectively. I find it ironic that an all powerful god seems to need lowly humans in order to do his work.
Once again you have lost your argument and nobody will be converted back into your cult.
I no longer have any interest in reading a bunch of biblical bullshit from any of you christian nuts so go talk to a wall, and get a life.
Once again someone else has just proven how stupid christians are.
Instead of getting down on your knees seeking out an invisible man for answers, why don't you christians try using your own brains to find your own answers? I have found that to be a lot more effective than praying and talking to the wind.
Need to set the record straight, however. I don't have any ex-wives, same-sex marriage being illegal and all that. I do, however, have a man with whom I have been living in glorious sin for 20 years come January. Guess fundies aren't really as good at reading others' minds as they imply.
Still Rolling On The Floor Laughing My Ass Off (because sometimes you just have to spell it out for the sake of the unlearned).
I am copying your post, printing it out in a pamphlet with a cover that reads: GOD'S PLAN FOR YOU, along with a picture of a blue sky with clouds, and perhaps a dove or two, and leaving said pamphlet in as many restrooms, Wal-Marts, gas stations, businesses and hotel room dresser drawers as I can.
"bible is not cookbook"
Well, anonymous, I guess Christians get slammed so much because they claim to be "the ambassadors of CHRIST". At least they are always out there spouting off about what their interpretation of what CHRIST's mind is. I guess they think they are mind-readers?
When you proclaim to be someone else's ambassador, you need to have something to back it up with.
Anonymous, Home Boy's interpretation sums it up pretty well. Let's hear your interpretation of that little diddy.
I can see where a lot of you are coming from. I'm sure things are probably relieving and easier, but I'm not sure if they are "good." This could be argued, but it’s not the main point in this post.
I will admit that a lot if not most "Christians" out there give a bad portrayal of Christianity. Sorry for a lot of bad examples and Judgment. Keep in mind though (including any Christians); nowhere does it say that Christians become perfect when they accept Christ (only the Spirit God gives us is perfect). They are forgiven. I still have a lot of problems and have to deal with them daily. God still instructs me to avoid sin. But I still fall way short. When I fall short I must fall back on God. It's what makes Christianity separate from other religions.
True Christianity places all hope and everything we are in Christ. Therefore, nothing can be attributed to ourselves, but only to God and Christ alone. Can you name another religion where this is seen? To accept that we are broken and helpless allows God to come into our lives.
So really what a lot of you are saying I agree with. Christianity isn’t about following a bunch of rules and regulations. Jesus Himself condemned the Pharisees of this! Christianity has been poisoned by a lot of regulations, rules, and judgment. But if you look closely and look for God rather than a religion, you’ll find something better than you’ve ever had.
Questions? Comments? Feel free to email me at balderdash87@gmail.com. (Keep in mind though, that God didn’t design us to understand everything, to obviously I won’t be able to answer everything, but I’ll sure do my best).
"Sorry to hear about all of you."
Why feel sorry for us Mark? Are you saying that achieving happiness and true freedom without the enslavement of your god is a bad thing? I realize that happy nonbelievers is a threat to your belief system about God. Because if someone is truly happy without god in their lives, guess what? That causes doubt in the mind of christians, because you guys claim that "It is not possible to be happy without Christ", which is pure BS.
I don't understand why christians like yourself are so sad that we are no longer enslaved to a mythical belief that is out of style. Now if I was entangled in the christian web again, that is when you could say "I'm sorry to hear about all of you." Matter as fact Mark, I am sad to hear about you being enslaved to a false god.
Reading your comment about being sorry for us, is like someone telling a "African American" slave back in the 1800's after the civil war ended that they are sorry to hear that Abraham Lincoln ended slavery. You christians are just as enslaved as they were, except their slave masters were real, and your slave master is a "Invisible Mythical Belief".
Just for the record, I also want to let you know that "I am sorry" to hear Mark that you along with other christians can't find happiness outside of christianity." You have to use your imagination in some myth in order to convince yourself that you are happy with some imaginary friend.
Mark Wrote: "Keep this in mind though. Even when we become faithless, God will remain faithful. Those of you who truly became Christians keep this in mind. God’s still got his eye on you."
Once again, more typical christian threats about how the big man in the sky has his eye on us, and he is going to get us one of these days. OH, I'm so freaking scared. LMFAO!!!!! Can you guys not come up with something more credible besides the same old worn out recycled christian propaganda.
You claim that god is faithful? Ok, I agree that he's faithful to throw people into hell, and he's faithful in screwing over mankind in the garden of Eden. God is very good at being faithful when it comes to placing the blame on mankind for his own screw ups and stupidity.
Of course in reality "Bible God" doesn't exist, because an all loving and all knowing god would not had allowed Satan to exist and would not had allowed evil to exist in the first place, because he would realize how unfair the gospel message is, and the way he does things is not looking out for the best of mankind.
Now I'm sure you will say he gave us free will, even though he still allows people to burn in hell for using their free will in a way which he does not approve of. So he gives us the gift of free will, but he punishes us for using that gift in the way that we see fit for our own personal lives. Boy if that is your god's way of showing love, then I would hate to imagine his way of showing hatred.
Mark Wrote: "I can see where a lot of you are coming from. I'm sure things are probably relieving and easier, but I'm not sure if they are "good."
That is your own biased "Opinion" Mark. What christians see as not "Good" is only your point of view just like the whole bible was man's point of view of who and what god is supposed to be.
I refuse to make my life miserable again by enslaving myself to a false belief called "Christianity".
If your god would rather see people living in misery and a less success than that's too bad for him. I have worked too damn hard to get away from your cult and I have worked too damn hard to achieve the victories and successes that I have had recently to just give it all up in order to please the ego of your god.
I find it sad that most christians would rather live in misery and sacrifice their own happiness in order to please their god. Christians are kind of like Muslims in many ways, except you guys are willing to sacrifice yourselves along with your happiness and comfort in order to please your mythical god.
Once again more cheap christian talk, and no action from your god.
I'm still not impressed by what you said or any other christian as a matter of fact. I still have not changed my mind about christianity. So sorry Mark. You lose. Another christian fails to convince us of his faulty truth again.
These christians who keep posting on this site don't seem to be able to get the job done in converting us back to their faith.
I think these christians are the ones who God needs to fix since they are not effective in winning souls for Christ on here. I think they are broken and are malfunctioning.
God needs to have a factory recall on his malfunctioning products.
That is exactly why I left christianity behind.
When we realize that no god is going to do anything to help us accomplish goals in our lives, and when we finally accept our own power within, and when we learn to do things on our own by using our own intellectual thinking that allows us to escape "Christian Bondage" and that is when a person learns how to start having success again in their life.
Anytime you rely on god to come into your life and do things for you, that is when you will find no progress in your life.
I realize there are christians who will claim that "God changed them" and "God gave them this or that", however no he did not. Even christians who have achieved anything in life did it on their own merits. God didn't do it for you.
Thanks for proving my point Mark, even though you shot yourself in the foot.
Swing an' a miss.
"I can see where a lot of you are coming from."
Somehow I doubt that.
"When I fall short I must fall back on God. It's what makes Christianity separate from other religions."
Not really. Other religious cults have a self loathing cycle as well.
" True Christianity places all hope and everything we are in Christ. Therefore, nothing can be attributed to ourselves, but only to God and Christ alone. Can you name another religion where this is seen?"
Well, mabey Mormonism? Other than that I'd say no. No other religion that doesn't call itself christianity relies on christ. Just as no religion can rely on the flying spaghetti monster and NOT be called pastafarian(sp?).
"Christianity isn’t about following a bunch of rules and regulations."
ReaHEHEEHEEELLLYY!?!
You've already stated that you MUST do something when you "fall short". What was that again? And how about if I choose to not follow that one rule of christianity that says I have to accept your jebus into my pulminary organ? Am I still a christian? So much for "not about rules".
"But if you look closely and look for God rather than a religion..."
And we can only look for god in the christian religion, right? Well I looked and found nothing but myth, superstition and dogma.
Are you sure you don't spell it Marc?
I'll be sure to email you some porn.
Plus I'll be sure to go to some other websites and post:
"FOR A GOOD TIME OR A ONE NIGHT STAND, EMAIL ME AT balderdash87@gmail.com."
Please don’t apologize for that; it’s not your fault that your god doesn’t exist.
Mark wrote: “Keep this in mind though. Even when we become faithless, God will remain faithful. Those of you who truly became Christians keep this in mind. God’s still got his eye on you.”
Sigh!
Mark, Mark, Mark, what are we going to do with you? What part of “ex-Christian” don’t you understand?
Or do you not know what it means to “become faithless”? It does not mean that we’re upset with Christians. (We may or may not be upset with some Christians, but that’s not what “faithless” means.) It means that, from our perspective, you have just explained to us that a figment of your imagination will remain faithful to us. Can you understand how silly that sounds to us? Unless and until you can convince us that your imaginary friend really exists, all your talk about Christians is moot.
Mark wrote: “I can see where a lot of you are coming from.”
No, you can’t, otherwise you wouldn’t have written what you did. Please drop that arrogant presumption from your head, right now.
But my version of the gospel is more authentic and it reveals more truth than what Mark's does.
Sorry that we don't have any video/audio tape, or at least an autograph from Jesus. I regret that we didn't get one back then.
Don't be "sorry"; be HAPPY----be overwhelmingly happy that people out there became brave enough to escape the mind-numbing effects of religious indoctrinization. Won't you join us in reason?
Mark/"Unblinded"?...Even when we become faithless, God will remain faithful.[bold added]
Oh?....and which of the myriad "gods" would that be?...'you mean, the "perfect", "ALL-knowing", "ALL-powerful", "ALL- loving", "omnibenevolent" creature portrayed in the "Holy bible"????? And hmmmmm...'seems a bit odd that such a "God" would need "Faith". You did say that "God" is "faithful", right?...as in, FULL of "Faith"; as in, HAVING "Faith"??????
Totally, 100%, absurd statement/concept.
Mark/"Passerby"?...Those of you who truly became Christians...
News flash: The difference between a "Christian", and a "TRUE Christian", is the very same difference between someone who "likes pizza", and someone who "TRULY likes pizza". In others words, there IS NO difference, Einstein----you either believe and accept the Christian "faith", or you don't. So, all-in-all, you've made a distinction without a single bit of difference.
Mark......keep this in mind. God’s still got his eye on you.
No he doesn't; "God" is behind your eyes..i.e.."in your head"
Mark/"Yogi"?...I can see where a lot of you are coming from. I'm sure things are probably relieving and easier, but I'm not sure if they are "good."
Thanks for the lip-service. You "can see" where we're coming from..."BUT"..
Now, why don't you define "good" for us? Is it "good" to hate your parents? Is it "good" to throw rocks at prostitutes?..how about rebellious teenagers....stone them? Is it "good" to avoid telling a lie, even though it may save someone's life? Is it "good" to use "niggers" as servants? Is it "good" to KILL anyone who is NOT "Christian". You've got some explaining to do, pal.
Mark...I will admit that a lot if not most "Christians" out there give a bad portrayal of Christianity.
Oh shit, I'm glad you concede that point---I was beginning to think it was just me----nOT.
Mark...Sorry for a lot of bad examples and Judgment.
Being "sorry" in place of someone else means jack'.
Mark...nowhere does it say that Christians become perfect when they accept Christ (only the Spirit God gives us is perfect). They are forgiven.
Forgiven?.. FORGIVEN for whAT?....what?.. for something that some alleged "other people" allegedly did? So the idea is that we're BORN "responsible" for someone elses alleged "crime"?...we're "guilty" before we ever come into existence? Furthermore---and what's interesting---is per your barbaric and perverse mythology, your "God" didn't die for EVERYONE'S "SIN"....no, only for those who accept the "free gift". So what that means is that "belief" in, and "acceptence" of, this alleged "biblegod", is ultimately more important than ANY offense, or "sin", against humanity. So much for "justice".
Marc...But I still fall way short. When I fall short I must fall back on God. It's what makes Christianity separate from other religions.
Are you kidding me? That you "fall back" on your god-belief is certainly NOT exclusive to Christians. You obviously live in a Christian "bubble".
Mark/"Unblined"?...True Christianity places all hope and everythi(CUT!!!!!!!!)
The term "True Christianity" is totally redundant. If it wasn't "True Christianity", then it wouldn't be christianity, now would it? Duh?
Marc/"Passerby"?...Therefore, nothing can be attributed to ourselves, but only to God and Christ alone.[bold added]
WhAT!?!?!!? Okay, so we have ZERO "free will", then, if "everything" is attributed to "God". We are "robots"; we needn't "think". 'Looks like you've got that part covered.
Mark/"Yogi"...Can you name another religion where this[everything is attributed to "God"] is seen?
Sure, pick one. Muslims "attribute" their "blessings" to "Allah"; Buddhists "attribute" their blessings to "Buddha"(non-deity) No astonishing disclosure there, that is, again, unless you live in the Christian bubble.....and you apparently do.
Mark/"Passerby"?...Christianity isn’t about following a bunch of rules and regulations.
...no, not a "bunch", only this "rule"/"regulation": "Accept Christianity...or BURN".
Hey!!! Don't I get any credit?
I am the only "TRUE AND REAL CHRISTIAN"!!!!
Mark/Marc is not a TRUE CHRISTIAN!!!! Only I am!!!!
I was sent here by Jesus. Mark/Marc is a false convert and a false prophet who has been sent here to deceive all of you.
And a rabbit's foot will bring you good luck even if you don't believe in such things!
Sheesh, what a waste of perfectly good keystrokes Mark's post was.
To the Dan Marvin imitator: you forgot to include a dozen scriptural quotes. Other than that, not bad.
Those of you who truly became Christians keep this in mind. God’s still got his eye on you.
Once you truly move past Christianity this guilt trip doesn't work anymore, sorry.
I'm sure things are probably relieving and easier, but I'm not sure if they are "good."
When you grow out of Christianity things aren't good, they're great. You leave behind the cognitive dissonance, the constant undermining of your self-esteem, the illogic, stupidity and primitive ethics, and the need to think and behave like a child. Its like being set free from a cage.
I will admit that a lot if not most "Christians" out there give a bad portrayal of Christianity
The No True Christian fallacy. It is impossible to define exactly who is a "True Christian" and who is not. You see yourself as a True Christian, so what are you going to do about all the Untrue Christians out there?
Therefore, nothing can be attributed to ourselves, but only to God and Christ alone. Can you name another religion where this is seen?
They're all like that. The same old wine in different bottles.
I can vouch for that. I do not feel one ounce of conviction (guilt) for leaving christianity behind.
Instead of feeling convicted by what christians say, I feel annoyed more than anything anytime they ignore what is practical and what works in the real world.
These christians don't know when to stop beating a dead horse. Speaking of dead, another day has passed and the so called, "Living Savior Jesus" has failed to return once again.
I love it!!!!
balderdash87@gmail.com
'1987' ??
I'm ashamed to say that at age 20 I would have probably naively written a similar post. Only back then I wouldn't have dared read anything non-Christian at all. So at least you are exposing yourself to other thoughts. That's a start.
I just hope you figure out sooner than later that it's all a man-made hoax founded on fear and guilt designed to control the masses and make the insecure feel better about themselves.
In reality, you have all the tools inside your own heart to do good and 'truly' love others. You don't need any religion for that. Don't let this self-degrading lie steal valuable years away from you.
Better to realize this in your 20's than before too much of your life slips by.
Same here.
Just 10 years ago I wouldn't have gone anywhere near a site such as this.
"To the Dan Marvin imitator: you forgot to include a dozen scriptural quotes. Other than that, not bad."
Here maybe these two links will help.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2z-OLG0KyR4&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGy7jRi2-uY
Mark, my dear, your god will remain faithful, according to most christians, to roast in hell those who don't believe the same things you believe.
Posts like yours make me sick to my stomach. You always come off with the, "oh, I'm so sorry for you", then later after that sort of drivel, you end up with, "but my loving god will be sure to torture you throughout all eternity if you don't believe in him."
Who wants to believe in something like that?
Did the real Dan ever stoop so low as to cite Cameron-Comfort videos? I don't recall. Methinks you paint him as more of a buffoon than he deserves (but just a smidge).
By the way, if the real Dan Marvin is around somewhere, I have some thoughts on why the Gospels record women as being the first to the "empty tomb". That was a fair question, and as I suspected, there does indeed appear to be something interesting behind it.
Did the real Dan ever stoop so low as to cite Cameron-Comfort videos? I don't recall.
---
Jim,
As I recall from Dan's website, it did have as supporting 'evidence', some of Cameron's lame videos.
ATF
Just listen to a christian talk, and when they start condemning others they give Satan the glory, and they don't even realize it.
You will hear stuff like, "Satan has a hold of you, or Satan is deceiving you", however God doesn't seem to be in control from the way most christians talk.
Satan seems to be on the move, but Bible God seems to be sitting on his butt doing nothing.
However, they blame it on man's free will. Funny, how god seem to have no control over free will.
It also seems that God has no control over Satan since his #1 angel got out of control, so you would think that an all knowing God would have foreseen this problem when he first created Satan.
Seems God doesn't have as much control and authority over as many things as christians would like to believe. Christianity is just one big bluff.
Kind of like God's bark is worse than his bite. I now see the christian God as "The Boogey Man".
Better watch it or the "Christian Boogey Man" in the sky is going to get you!!! LOL!!!!!
ATF, you are quite right; Dan does have at least one of those ridiculous videos linked from his website, so I can't "defend" him. He actually has stooped that low
---
Jim,
Once I had visited Dan's website and saw it's huge content of lame 'excuse' video's, I just gave up ALL hope of ever making him see reality.
If a person has gone THAT far in support of their beliefs, they sure aren't about to do a reverse-course anytime soon.
Changing Dan's mind at this point would be much like a fundie convincing our webmaster to rejoin the fold....Just ain't gonna happen!
Pity about Dan
ATF
Please, tell us your thoughts on this. I thought it was the best question he came up with. I would like to hear your take.
I was reading something by Robert Price the other day, and just happened upon his take on the women visiting the tomb. First, according to the Gospels, why do they visit the tomb? It's presumably to anoint the body of Jesus, right? Well, that is key. According to Price (and I think he's spot on), there were numerous Hellenistic traditions in which *women* anoint the body of a dead man-god. Most prominently, Osiris was anointed by Isis and Nephythys just before he rose from the dead.
Thus, it seems likely that the women visiting Jesus' tomb were merely part of a familiar anointing-and-resurrection motif that had been shared by numerous god-men/saviors predating Jesus. Only as the Jesus story gained details (e.g. through Mark's penchant for midrash) did the women assume the role of "witnesses" to the resurrection.
This becomes all the more plausible when one realizes that "Christ" initially denoted "the risen one", and was only later conflated with "Messiah" (which initially connoted a mortal to the Jews). So Price surmises that Jesus was initially imagined to be anointed for resurrection, as was Osiris, and only then became "Christ". As the legend grew, his anointing (which eventually became synonymous with being "Messiah") was retroactively moved further back in time, eventually to Jesus' birth. You can see this in Luke and Matthew's introduction of a nativity scene, which Mark lacked, and Paul never even hinted at.
Something that Price has helped me to appreciate is how many layers of borrowing and reinterpretation are to be found in the Bible. Not only is the NT replete with midrash, but the OT is also filled with it. Layer upon layer of imaginative reinterpretation, applying old scripture to current situations. Hence, the many detailed parallels between David and Jesus, for example. Fascinating stuff.
THIS DRINK IS GUARANTEED TO CONVERT YOU TO THE CHRISTIAN FAITH OR CONVERT YOU BACK IF YOU'VE ALREADY LEFT!
IT'S CALLED, "THE HOLY SPRITE"!!!!
IT'S 100% SATAN FREE, AND UNLIKE THE DARK COLAS OF HELL IT IS CRYSTAL CLEAR, CLEAN, AND PURE!!!!!
Thus, it seems likely that the women visiting Jesus' tomb were merely part of a familiar anointing-and-resurrection motif that had been shared by numerous god-men/saviors predating Jesus
---
Jim,
Wow, that was quite an interesting lesson you gave there!!
Over the past year I've discovered how MUCH content of the bible stories were 'stolen' from other godhead myths that predated the xtian jesus.
So it only makes sense that even this passage wasn't original thinking on the part of the bible writers.
I think I see part of the problem that xtians have in realizing their bible book isn't as great as it seems.
First, most xtians (especially the young one's) probably believe the bible was some contiguous book, written in sequence, like the chapters in a novel.
I know when I was young, I assumed that was the case, as no one told me any different.
Then one might think these human writers surely couldn't have put this whole book together without god's help to do so, as it would seem on the surface to be a bit-much to invent; taken as a whole.
Ah, but when realizes these writers didn't invent the entire book from scratch, but instead, borrowed from other god myth stories and then subsequently embellished upon each others writings as each new writer did his own thing; then things start to look not so complex anymore.
That would also explain why this book is chock-full of errors and misinformation.
Surely if a real god has his hand in the writing of each piece of the bible, it wouldn't be full of such mistakes and wrong information.
It sure makes far more sense if one understands the history of how this bible got written; not to mention how humans decided which writings were worthy of being part of this book.
If god were real, wouldn't he have not only written each part, but would have directed it's assembly as well?
Does any xtian know of anyone in history that god spoke to and told that person to put their writings into this bible book?
Gosh, how hard would it have been for this god to send a complete instruction manual to us, where no human had to scribble god's words down?
ATF (who doesn't believe in the three wise men of the bible, but thinks our Jim Arvo is quite WISE, indeed)
Man, guess I must have hit some buttons to get such a heated response back. I’m getting a lot of “if God is so good how come this-or-that?” Good question. I say look at it this way though.
I don’t think God created man to be evil. I do, however, believe that he created man and gave him the option to allow evil. See, if God created man and allowed no room for a choice, would it really be love? Without a choice we would all just be robots running around and never CHOOSING to love God back. God put the allowance for evil into the world so man would have to choose to love God back. Unfortunately evil got chosen. So “how could God allow evil in the world”? It’s simple; because without the allowance of evil we could never truly love God back.
Those of you who are married might understand this a little more. Love is more of a choice than just a feeling. Those who “love” their spouses because they feel that way eventually lose the feeling at some point or another. What happens after that? Is the love gone? It requires much more dedication to choose to love someone (especially during hard times) rather than feel love for him or her. Fair-weather friends are the same way; when things are good they stay together, when they’re not they peace out. People who love us most stick with us through think and thin, we know this to be true.
“Angela” – who ever said God created us with evil in our hearts? God created us yes, but He didn’t place evil into our hearts. We did that on or own. God never said “eat the forbidden fruit and let sin enter your life.”
“Differentnow” – Even if Christianity was a man-made hoax (which it’s not) I’ve looked at all the other ways a person can live their life. And I’ve come to conclude that although Christianity may not be the easiest or pleasurable way to live my life I have decided that it is the best for both others and me. Today’s world is full of self-indulgency and greed. “Take what you can; live for yourself.” That’s gotten humanity real far. When I look back on my life what would I rather see?: A life full of indulgent behavior and pleasure? Or a life spent giving to others and bettering the people around me? I don’t say this believing that non-Christians can’t do the same (in fact, a lot of non-Christians have done more than many Christians ever hope to achieve), but the outline of one’s life that Christianity entails, gives me a vision of more than I can see in anything else.
When I said “God’s got his eye on you” I didn’t mean for it to entail guilt and sorrow. God still has his eye on you because he cares about you and will be there for you. God still allows us to choose and allows us to learn through trial and error.
Also, what’s up with all the angry comments? If you don’t believe in God anymore why get angry over a God that doesn’t exist? Seems more like it’s for the benefit of you to keep using the negative comments. Who are you really trying to convince? Anger is pretty good at clouding our senses AND reasoning.
“Boomslang” – Use your mind. I didn’t say faithful as in “having faith” I meant it with the meaning, as one would have with a spouse. You stay “faithful” to your wife because you love her. So it’s really not 100% absurd. You just can’t wrap your mind around it. And when I said “Christian” and “true Christian” I was entailing that there are a lot of people out there who try and live a righteous life and therefore call themselves a Christian. True Christianity is based upon Grace and Forgiveness, not on “being good.”
“Forgiven?.. FORGIVEN for whAT?....what?.. for something that some alleged "other people" allegedly did? So the idea is that we're BORN "responsible" for someone elses alleged "crime"?...we're "guilty" before we ever come into existence? Furthermore---and what's interesting---is per your barbaric and perverse mythology, your "God" didn't die for EVERYONE'S "SIN"....no, only for those who accept the "free gift". So what that means is that "belief" in, and "acceptence" of, this alleged "biblegod", is ultimately more important than ANY offense, or "sin", against humanity. So much for "justice".”
Are you really so arrogant to think that you don’t have any faults?
“Sure, pick one. Muslims "attribute" their "blessings" to "Allah"; Buddhists "attribute" their blessings to "Buddha"(non-deity) No astonishing disclosure there, that is, again, unless you live in the Christian bubble.....and you apparently do.”
You obviously don’t understand what I’m saying. MUSLIMS believe that they get into heaven by their works and actions; it’s why they have so many rituals and customs (also why they blow Christians and Americans up). According to Islam, no sacrifice is needed to be forgiven, only faith in Allah, sincere repentance, AND OBEDIENCE TO ISLAMIC LAW. So you work your way into heaven by obeying the law. Buddhists believe that you work your way higher into perfection. Mormons believe that you have to be baptized to be saved (and a lot of Catholics). Works works works. When you look deep into other religions it’s what you notice most. People are always DOING something to gain salvation.
I never said accepting Christianity was an easy thing to do, hence, all the angry controversy.
“rickyusvi” –
“Please don’t apologize for that; it’s not your fault that your god doesn’t exist.”
The use of snide immature comments really does nothing to me, just makes me less inclined to listen to anything else you have to say.
Of course I can understand why it seems silly to you, but that’s only because of your beliefs. One who can really never understand is the one who never takes things from an honest standpoint. So since you already have the preconceived idea that Christianity is just a figment of our imaginations of course I understand why it would seem silly, only a fool would see it as otherwise. However, you can’t take an honest standpoint on the matter, so your mind is trapped inside a tiny little box that will never know anything than what it WANTS to accept.
“No, you can’t, otherwise you wouldn’t have written what you did. Please drop that arrogant presumption from your head, right now.”
Don’t assume. I can too; I’ve taken an honest standpoint on both sides and I can’t accept what you believe, I’d have to degrade my mind and lie to myself.
“Stronger now” – Apparently your frontal lobes haven’t developed. Answers such as “swing and a miss” have no reason or logic involved. Your understanding and wisdom is limited by your sense of reason and logic.
However, you can’t take an honest standpoint on the matter, so your mind is trapped inside a tiny little box that will never know anything than what it WANTS to accept.
---
Mark,
Considering that most of us have had far more experience than your young 20 years has afforded you, I will explain to you a few fun-facts about us now.
Most of us here spent a good portion of our lives trying to make sense of your xtian god's bible book, as well as trying to get your savior god to communicate with us.
Almost none of us decided overnight that your xtian god wasn't real, as the path to this conclusion was not only a lengthy one, but these facts had to usually overcome our stubbornness to continue to believe in this god of yours.
Many of us were no different at age 20 than you are right now; so sure of our god beliefs that our minds wouldn't listen to any counter arguments on the matter.
We fought others at your young age who would threaten our god beliefs.
For instance, I can recall many an argument at that age, where I took the side for creation and fought against evolution. I'm sure many others would tell a similar story.
The difference I think between the time of decades ago and our present time, is that researching this important matter has been made far easier with the advent of the internet, versus having to comb through many library books instead.
Science also has progressed quite a bit in the past decades, reaching a point where one has to be a fool to think evolution's evidence is a devil trick on humans.
While you believe that our minds are trapped in some tiny box, the truth is that we escaped that tiny box, which was called religion.
Having done so, we are free now to view all the evidence outside the bible book and not be bound by it's creed of ignoring any evidence that might damage our god faith.
I would ask YOU for the same evidence that I would of someone who is claiming ANYTHING supernatural. If you truly can provide some credible evidence in your god, then I'm sure many of us will be open to view it.
We are not so closed minded that we would dismiss REAL evidence, but considering how many xtians have come to the table with nothing more than their feelings and hearsay evidence, you would be the first then to provide us with anything substantial here.
Given the xtian track record of NOT providing any credible evidence to any atheist seeking such evidence, it would be difficult to believe that you Mark, would be the very first xtian to do so.
Being a skeptic as well as an ex-xtian, you have your work cut out for you if you wish to convince me of your god's reality on this earth.
So no Mark, I won't accept flimsy evidence of your god's presence, anymore than I would accept crop circles as being evidence that UFO's are landing all over the earth.
I'd be a fool to make such conclusions based on such flimsy evidence, so you'll have to provide me with more than that type of evidence if you want to get my attention for your god case.
Telling me you had some grand experience where you felt god and he made huge changes in your life, just won't cut it.
Telling me that god healed your sore throat or some other similar ailment, also won't do.
Telling me you saw angels or even Jesus, standing at the foot of your bed, will only let me conclude you are delusional or on some mind altering drugs.
Telling me that if I only would have FAITH in your god and he would then provide me with proof of his reality, also isn't going to prove a thing to me. This type of suggestion will only result in my concluding that one has to shut down their brain in order for the god-receiver to come online.
Show me that your god can move a mountain, that your god can regrow an arm or leg, and rest assured, you'll certainly have my undivided attention then.
Heck, I'd settle for proof that your satan even exists, but he also likes to hide himself away from view.
ATF (who thinks that this particular Mark xtian, will in his future, realize his god is imaginary; even if he right now can't see that far ahead)
Define REAL evidence? If you mean only physical evidence then I can provide none but what is already on this earth. However, the evidence of evil proves that Satan exists. However, my guess is that you deny the existence of evil already. And give it other such names as "survival the fittest" or "natural selection" among many names I'm sure.
You require physical proof of the spiritual. Don't think that's gonna happen. It's impossible for me to convince you otherwise.
Trying to convince me that I will "grow" out of Christianity will not work by the way. There are many Christians who walk their faith out, I see no reason why I can't. Come to think of it, many have done pretty great things.
Also, your shallow beliefs (if it is indeed evolution) are based upon a theory developed by a man who after coming to the end of his research denied his very own theory of evolution. Yet you still hold on to it? Look a little closer into evolution, not micro evolution, macro. There are plenty of missing parts and inconsistencies. It takes more FAITH to believe evolution than it does Christianity. Look closer into Einstein's work also, he eventually came to a dead end too. Actually, if you look closely enough at science (what we KNOW about science, not only theories; especially ones denied by their theorists) you will see that it also points back to an intelligent design.
If you want more scientific evidence don't hesitate to ask for it.
(I get the feeling that everyone keeps assuming that I don't look at all sides to a situation. Don't assume that I don't take scientific or otherwise important factors to light. It's also very insulting to use my age against me. I'm very aware of the knowledge and wisdom come along with age, but it can get polluted over time also. Learn to take fresh perspective).
The bible says that a god created the whole universe in just six days, but there were no people around to record such event so how could anyone have suggested such a thing with a shred of accuracy or proof?
Then the same god created a man and a woman and a talking snake, yet he knew not were they were in the garden, then he had to ask where Able was?
The the very same god requires animal sacrifice to appease his sense of smell and to attone for sins.
Then people hearts were continuely wicked, also all the animals and plants (the wicked creatures and plants that he created) and caused a great flood, although he could have just changed everyone's heart and then after the flood Noah got drunk and then soon after that we have sodom and gomorrah a wicked city. What happened to the flood of all the wicked people? It didn't work according to you.
Then we have a man living in the belly of a whale for 3 days and nights...NP
And then we have the same god testing people's faith and then after 4000 years later we have a virgin birth savior to save people from their wicked hearts, still.
Intelligent Design, Yes!
Intelligent bible god, No!
You said that you believe, that's all that you have is a belief, nothing more! You have no proof, you have no facts, you have nothing but a BELIEF, thats all you have, nothing more!
That is what the bible is it's a BELIEF, nothing more! No proof, no facts, no nothing!
A belief is not a fact, a belief holds no proof.
All you have is a five letter word, Faith, which means to overlook your born-with common sense and apply imaginary faith into a BELIEF with no facts nor any proof.
Intelligent Design means intelligent beyond the scope and ability of any earthly human being to comprehend, nor to be able to put into words of that are limited only to his own IMAGINATION. The bible god created man in his own image and man created the bible god from his own IMAGINATION.
The unknown does not automatically default to a bible god, it did 2000years ago and to people whom refuse to see how ignorant they were back then and continually want to believe in such nonsense in the 21st century, you worship 1st century nonsense and foolishness of over 2000 years ago, try to wake up from 1st century man made beliefs.
Mark. Please define "evil." In other words, what does the word evil mean, according to your understanding?
Mark wrote, "Also, your shallow beliefs..."
Mark, let's for the sake of argument say that evolution is crap. There, that's out of the way. Evolution is false and laid aside.
Now, let's see what happens: Creationism is still without evidence!
Wow, did you see that? Disallowing evolution did absolutely nothing for supporting creationism! Creationism has to stand on its own merit and its own evidence and its own SCIENCE! But guess what? Creationism has no science, no evidence, and is based entirely on religious belief.
And, no matter how "shallow" or "deep" anyone's "beliefs" might be, it's reality that matters. Shed the ultra-pious, magical, mysterious, facade and try to think like a rational human being. If I tell you a group of Borrowers live under my stairway, would you believe me if I presented you with no evidence except that occasionally small stuff of mine keeps mysteriously disappearing?
Think about it.
Ad hominem. Plain and simple.
"Answers such as “swing and a miss” have no reason or logic involved."
They do if you really understand our perspective as you claim to.(a basic understanding of baseball wouldn't hurt either)
You see, If your god would have "remained faithful" I would not be an atheist. I was just pointing out your failure to "see where [we] are coming from".
"Your understanding and wisdom is limited by your sense of reason and logic."
Are you suggesting that wisdom has nothing to do with applying reason and logic to determine objective reality?
Or, perhaps, you were trying to say that MY sense of logic and reason is faulty. If so, then show me why you think this.
Also, I like the way you ignored the rest of what I had to say. Then you quoted something you failed to understand the significance of in order to make insulting comments to me. As if this were a new method of christian evangelizing.
Speaking of Darwin:"after coming to the end of his research denied his very own theory of evolution."
Are you speaking of that urban legend of how he recanted on his deathbed? That is a myth propogated by creationists and religious folk to keep their members and others in ignorance. It is LYING FOR JESUS!
And if you don't believe me check this out:
http://www.answersingenesis.org/creation/v18/i1/darwin_recant.asp
"Look closer into Einstein's work also, he eventually came to a dead end too."
And as we know, no-one has continued past where he stopped. Just like He didn't continue where Newton left off. Just like Newton didn't continue past Galileo(sp?) ect..ect..
"Actually, if you look closely enough at science (what we KNOW about science, not only theories..."
Ahh! Yes. You are making a error here, kid. Learn a little something about the scientific method and how scientific theories are supported by evidence, have made "predictions" about future dicoveries that, when discovered, have also supported the theory.(as in how the ToE scientists "predicted" a high degree of genetic similarity between humans and apes)
Scientific theory is not just a guess or a wild stab in the dark.
"If you want more scientific evidence don't hesitate to ask for it."
O.k. Can I have scientific evidence of a disembodied consciousness?
"I get the feeling that everyone keeps assuming that I don't look at all sides to a situation."
Gee! I wonder why? Perhaps it has something to do with the statements you made that are christian apologetic fabrications.
Next time you make claims like the one about Darwin, have a link or web address to a site that backs it up. That way we won't have to just take your word for it and we can also understand more precisely what you are referring to.
M'kay?
You are apparently implying that Darwin recanted the theory of evolution. This claim has been thoroughly refuted. It is nothing but a MYTH invented in attempt to recruit gullible folk into christianity. And if you are too closed-minded to take the word of scientists for it, please consider that honest christians acknowledge the Darwin-recanted-TOE claim as false.
Here's a link for you from the "Answers in Genesis" site (go ahead and read it; you won't be damned to hell):
http://www.answersingenesis.org/creation/v18/i1/darwin_recant.asp
If someone told you that Darwin denied evolution, they were mistaken or deliberately lying. Hmmm, wonder what other myths you’ve been led to believe?
You assert that you've looked at both sides, implying (I presume) that you have examined the position of skeptics as well as evolutionary biologists. Judging by what you've written thus far, I suspect that what you mean by examining a position is different from what most of us mean by it. When I claim to have examined a position, I mean that I have sought to gain an in-depth understanding of the position directly from the proponents of the position. I read what they have to say and I seriously consider their arguments and their evidence. I also examine how those proponents respond to critics. Once I've done all that earnestly (which often takes years), I can then honestly assert that I've examined the position. I've done that with Christianity, evolution, and "intelligent design", to name a few.
Now, is that what you have done with evolution and with those who reject Christianity? If so, you could rather easily lend credibility to that claim by listing some books you've read that represent those positions. In other words, books written by actual proponents of those positions, not merely summaries written by apologists. Given the nature of your comments so far, I'll wager that you cannot, as it seems you've only availed yourself of apologetics, not actual science or scholarly criticism of your religion (but do correct me if I'm wrong).
At one point you said "If you want more scientific evidence don't hesitate to ask for it.". This would imply that you have already provided some "scientific evidence" of your beliefs. I see nothing approaching that in what you've written. Again, what I see is simplistic apologetics (and quite a few misconceptions, as others have pointed out). What is the single most compelling "scientific" argument you can give for your position? Can you state it accurately and give some indication of its actual scientific merit (e.g. by citing relevant scientific papers, books, or web sites)?
Exactly! Believers generally have a monolithic view of the Bible--they accept it as a whole, not appreciating the "literary freedom" that was enjoyed by the authors, including false attributions. I'll wager not one in ten Christians has even heard the "theory" that significant portions of the NT were written by *borrowing* from the Hebrew Bible (i.e. midrash). But more than just text was frequently borrowed--entire "gods" were borrowed! There are many examples of one culture adopting another's entire mythology and incorporating it into their own, usually renaming the gods or goddesses in the process. Eros became Cupid, Hermes became Mercury, Dionysus became Liber, Athena became Minerva, Aphrodite became Venus, etc. But somehow Jesus is seen as being wholly unique by Christians; no possibility of borrowing there, even though the rest of civilization indulged in such a practice. Osiris became Jesus? What blasphemy!
"I don’t think God created man to be evil. I do, however, believe that he created man and gave him the option to allow evil. See, if God created man and allowed no room for a choice, would it really be love? Without a choice we would all just be robots running around and never CHOOSING to love God back. God put the allowance for evil into the world so man would have to choose to love God back. Unfortunately evil got chosen. So “how could God allow evil in the world”? It’s simple; because without the allowance of evil we could never truly love God back."
Mark,
Your above comments are probably some of the oldest and lamest argument that christians come up with.
Once again, I go back to how God is supposed to love us, and he is supposed to be doing what is best for all of mankind.
Ok Mark, let me ask you this. You believe that God is all knowing, and he knows the future. Correct?
Ok Mark, then how come God felt it was best for all of "Mankind" to place a evil being named, "Satan" in the garden of Eden, when he knew way ahead of time what would happen?
If God is "All Knowing" and can see the future, then how come he decided to put such a temptation in the garden of Eden in the first place. It is obvious that God intended for man to fall, and it is obvious that God set man up to fall on purpose. God never wanted man to have a perfect paradise, if that were so, he would not have created an evil being known as "Satan" because God knew ahead of time that Satan would betray him someday.
Let's go back to Genesis in the bible.
God Creates a perfect paradise and places two people in it, only to allow an evil being known as "Satan", to tempt both Adam and Eve. Now I will remind you that God was responsible for creating Satan in the first place.
Then God decides to place another temptation in the Garden of Eden, which was a tree with unforbidden fruit on it, knowing good and well what choice Adam and Eve is going to make in the first place.
Then he after knowing all along what choices Adam and Eve are going to make, he sits back and does nothing. However, he is supposed to be doing what is best for all of mankind.
You claim Mark, that "Man made the choice to become evil". However, God is the one who set man up for the fall, and he is the one who tempted man with evil by placing his own "Evil Creation" known as Satan in the garden along with that tree.
If God were truly looking out for man's best interest, he would've never allowed the existence of Satan in the first place, and he would've never placed the "Tree of Knowledge" in the garden of Eden.
Plus for some odd reason, "Which is supposed to be fair" all humanity is guilty of a crime that they never actually committed in the first place. Thousands and thousands of human beings who haven't even been born yet are somehow responsible for the sins of Adam & Eve. You call that fair and Just.
If your God does exist, he is insanely cruel, and he seems to enjoy playing mind games with humans along with playing mean and cruel jokes. It's almost like we are used for God's entertainment, because he is so bored that he has nothing else better to do with his time than create humans and bring suffering and pain into their lives, because it is his way of entertaining himself. It's like watching a movie for God.
Now let's recap one of your previous comments once again Mark:
"It’s simple; because without the allowance of evil we could never truly love God back."
So you just admitted that it's all about what "God" wants. He doesn't care about the needs of people, it's all about pleasing and kissing the butt of your "Insecured and Jealous" God who has a major ego problem.
Mark, your case is once again weak and it carries no weight. If you want to convince people of your God being so loving and kind, then I'm sorry to inform you that you can't do it. God himself will have to be the one to reveal himself in a personal way by communicating effectively so that people like myself know that it is him for sure. Which God has failed to do so.
Everything that christians like you claim is based on nothing more than pure brainwashing, tradition, hear-say (The Bible), and manipulation.
It is "You" who is small minded Mark. You refuse to look at reality from a logical point of view. I could tell you that the sky is blue, and I can provide that evidence that it is blue, however people like you would claim that the sky is still green, even when the evidence is provided for you, and it is visible with your own eyes.
Now, you may claim that atheists can't provide evidence that there is no God, however that still does not prove that there is a "God".
I will admit that I am "Agnostic", however I do not believe in a "Loving God" who is fair and just.
If God wants to reveal himself he needs to do it on his own instead of sending other humans to do so. If God is "All Knowing" then he should realize it will take him revealing himself to people living in today's modern world. Reading a text that was written 2,000 years ago, is not solid proof, but once again "Hear-Say". If God refuses then that tells me even more, that God really doesn't care about mankind. Dying on a cross 2,000 years ago once again is "Hear-Say".
If you believe that the bible is 100 percent Authentic Mark, I will ask you this. Do you believe everything you read and hear?
I find no valid evidence in anything that you have posted on here that will change my mind.
Like many other christians Mark, your beliefs along with your reasoning is oversimplified, flawed, and illogical. They are not valid.
MARK SAID:
"What's the point in attempting to try and change someone's mind who's already got it made up?"
Hey, if your god can't do no better than that, then why should we believe you? After all God did say in his word "Do not put your faith in man" so if that's the case, why should we trust in what you have to say, and why should we believe what all Paul, John, Matthew, Luke, Peter, and all of the other writers of the bible have to say on the matter? If God does not want us to trust in man, then he needs to personally reveal himself in a way where humans can understand what he is saying without having to second guess him. Basically if God is out there, then he needs to put up or shutup.
MARK SAID:
"You require physical proof of the spiritual. Don't think that's gonna happen. It's impossible for me to convince you otherwise"
You just said it Mark. You or nobody else can prove that the God of the Bible is real.
You are also right Mark. It is impossible for you to convince us otherwise, so only God is going to be able to do so. Until then, I will not believe anything that any human christian has to say.
I'll just say in closing that if God decides to reveal himself, he needs to do it in a loving way, not some wrathful way. It seems God has already done enough damage the way it is with his wrath.
Many innocent people here on this planet have suffered great pain, heartache, and losses over the years, and it's all because of the same worn out excuse that it's because we all live in a fallen world. None of us asked to be put on this planet, so there is no logical reason why everyone else (Past, Present, and future) should have to suffer for the sins of two other people who none of us have ever met.
I find no love or justice with a God who has such reasoning.
What's the point in attempting to try and change someone's mind who's already got it made up?
Because we all might learn something along the way. Is your mind made up and can't be changed?
You require physical proof of the spiritual. Don't think that's gonna happen.
The Bible is full of this alleged proof - a worldwide flood, people healed, all sorts of miracles, so according to that book observers were presented with physical proof. It's a pretty common belief among Christians that the "spiritual realm" routinely causes changes to the physical world, so where is the evidence that a neutral party can examine?
Also, your shallow beliefs (if it is indeed evolution) are based upon a theory developed by a man who after coming to the end of his research denied his very own theory of evolution
Check out the link stronger now and Thackerie provided. The information you have been given is incorrect. Why not reevaluate your other arguments and see if they are grounded in fact or propaganda?
What's the point in attempting to try and change someone's mind who's already got it made up?
Once again your young age is showing here Mark.
Everyone comes to conclusions in life, usually based on many years of experiences.
Right now, at your 20 years of age, I'm pretty confident that you no longer believe in Santa, correct?
Well, how did you arrive at that conclusion, may I ask?
At some point you found evidence to first question his existence, then later you found overwhelming evidence to button up that case that he couldn't possibly exist.
If I were to right now assert to you that Santa really DOES exists, and asked you to believe me on faith alone, with no physical evidence; how likely would it be that I would change your mind Mark?
I'm making two points here really.
1. We grow wiser (usually) as we gain more years of experience on this earth.
2. Once we find overwhelming evidence against some concept (such as santa), then we have to conclude that concept is bogus.
Most of us do not change on minds about a conclusion that was years in the making.
For most of us here to go backwards and conclude that your god/jesus is real, would certainly require the type of concrete evidence that you would require for me to convince you at your age of 20, that Santa was real all along and that you need to re-believe in him.
So while you say we "made up our minds", you seem to believe that we did so almost on a whim, and because of that 'whim' type decision, we should just open our minds and look at your Jesus again as some great god being.
What you fail to realize Mark, is that our conclusions about your god and jesus, came about in a slow process for most of us here.
For myself to go from believing that some form of a god was up there, to reach a conclusion that there is ZERO proof of such a god, took the same amount of time as you yourself have been alive Mark.
So while you've been perhaps looking at the problem of god vs no god, for what, a few short years at most(?), most of us here have spent decades doing the same.
So no Mark, we won't be changing out minds here based on FAITH evidence alone, especially from someone who is not only a mere 20 years of age, but one who also obviously hasn't taken any great amount of time researching both sides of this god issue.
>Define REAL evidence? If you mean only physical evidence then I can provide none but what is already on this earth. However, the evidence of evil proves that Satan exists. However, my guess is that you deny the existence of evil already. And give it other such names as "survival the fittest" or "natural selection" among many names I'm sure.
So you think that the fact that we have 'evil' in this world directly supports your case for their being a Devil named Satan who causes all this evil, yes?
Okay, that is one remote possibility I suppose, but I also have another to add.
Perhaps, just perhaps, there is no Satan and that any so called 'evil' in this world is there just because that is how mother-nature put things together.
All things good are not attributable to your god, nor are all things evil attributable to some Devil either. They just are what they are and nothing more Mark, but as long as you can't see past your xtian nose, you'll never be able to see the obvious.
Now about evidence:
When I say physical evidence, I don't necessarily mean it has to be something one can touch with their hand.
That said, if your god is real and is intervening in the affairs of us humans as the bible indicates he does (and most xtians agree with that intervening), then there must be some evidence that this supernatural god being is at times, skewing the natural events of this world.
Can you prove to us that your god is healing his followers?
Can you show us that your god is healing his very own divine xtian leaders?
Can you show any statistics at all, that would indicate to us that xtians are being rewarded when they pray to your god for something?
Can you explain why when an entire xtian city prays for rain during a drought, that the rain didn't come, but when it finally did come much later, it flooded the entire area instead?
Is there ANYTHING supernatural that you can point to and prove out, where your god might have had some influence over the earth's nature?
If you have no such evidence and all your proof is of the spiritual type, then why should any of us here accept your word that your god is real?
If I said to you, believe in santa because I know he's real, for I FEEL him with my spirit, would that be enough to convince you he was indeed real?
Now if presents suddenly showed up under your tree on xmas morning and there was no sign of someone breaking in, then I might have a chance to make you take a second look at my santa claim.
Outside of such miracles though, how can you expect a thinking mind to accept what can't be seen, heard, smelled, touched, or even known without a special book that was written 2000+ years ago by anonymous men; unknown to us.
>Trying to convince me that I will "grow" out of Christianity will not work by the way. There are many Christians who walk their faith out, I see no reason why I can't. Come to think of it, many have done pretty great things.
Actually, that prediction of your future, was meant for our readers, not you.
I already know from experience that we won't change your mind here and now.
What might happen though, is that at some point down the road you'll hear an echo of the words we wrote you and begin to question your faith, just as we all did that very thing.
Once that door is ajar, more and more questions will arise in you and over a long period of time, you'll suddenly find that your faith is shattered.
I mean, how do you think we all got HERE Mark?
>Also, your shallow beliefs (if it is indeed evolution) are based upon a theory developed by a man who after coming to the end of his research denied his very own theory of evolution. Yet you still hold on to it? Look a little closer into evolution, not micro evolution, macro. There are plenty of missing parts and inconsistencies.
Mark, have you even bothered to to view the videos about Dover PA on this website?
There are two video's on the subject that I'm sure the webmaster can point you to, if you ask him nicely.
After viewing both of them, then you come back here and tell me that evolution is an act of faith.
Till then, you are preaching from xtian apologist rubbish, that has no problem lying in order to keep it's xtain fold in place.
I suppose that like some other xtians that pop in here now and then, that you also think all these scientist worldwide have some grand conspiracy going, using evolution (and other sciences), to kick your god out of existence?
Sorry Mark, but science doesn't have such a hidden agenda up it's sleeves.
It seeks out knowledge and insist upon proof and repeatability.
I also suppose you believe that a scientific theory is just a mere theory to, huh?
I wonder where that opinion might have come from Mark?
Oh let me guess....Some xtian apologist book perhaps...nah.
>If you want more scientific evidence don't hesitate to ask for it.
Actually, I'd settle for your FIRST piece of scientific evidence here.
As of yet, you haven't provided a single piece Mark !!
>(I get the feeling that everyone keeps assuming that I don't look at all sides to a situation. Don't assume that I don't take scientific or otherwise important factors to light. It's also very insulting to use my age against me. I'm very aware of the knowledge and wisdom come along with age, but it can get polluted over time also. Learn to take fresh perspective).
Oh yes indeed I do assume you are not looking at all sides, for darn good reasons to.
Your lame arguments greatly smell of xtian lies that make the rounds over and over again.
If you truly understood how science works, what justifies actual proof of something, then you wouldn't be almost quoting these xtians lies and untruths and misconceptions.
Try for once, reading a secular science book on evolution.
Take a look at skeptic websites and realize how many hoaxsters there are in this world trying to convince everyone to believe in all kinds of supernatural things.
Try reading some secular history books and the writings of historians, especially from the era of your jesus.
Learn to have a critical mind when viewing subject material Mark.
Perhaps then, you might see your bible for what it really is.
You might even start to discover that all the proof of your god and jesus, lies only inside the mind of wishful thinkers and no where else.
ATF (who thinks Mark has a long long road ahead of him, but just doesn't realize yet how long that road will be)
Okay, it appears our young apologist guest has taken quite a pummeling. Per usual, all bases covered...i.e., all of Mark's appeals to emotion; all of Mark's ad hominem attacks; all of Mark's bare assertion fallacies; all of Mark's strawman arguments; all of Mark's non sequitur, along with the false dichotomy he sets up when he attempts to "prove" his position "true" by default... this, by attempting to knock "holes" in the Theory of Evolution, which, BTW, is both Theory and fact, while of course, "Creationism"---or if you prefer---"Intelligent Design", is NEITHER "fact", NOR theory.
In other words, nothing new here; just someone parroting the same ol' Christian apologetics we're accustomed to hearing on a daily basis. In any event, I'll add a few things, since he addressed me specifically.
Mark....“Boomslang” – Use your mind. I didn’t say faithful as in “having faith” I meant it with the meaning, as one would have with a spouse. You stay “faithful” to your wife because you love her. So it’s really not 100% absurd.
You can equivocate until donkey's fly; I stand by my statement that your assertion(i.e. bare assertion fallacy) that "God will remain faithful" is, yes, totally absurd.
Firstly, if you don't have any empirical/tangible evidence for a "God", then your statement is non-sensical from the very first word. WhAT "God"? That would be like me stating to you, "Lucky the Leprechaun will remain Faithful".
Secondly, I used the word "faithful" in the context to which Theists use it; NOT how "spouses" use it. Try to listen closely, and I'll attempt to explain:
When speaking about their particular deity, Christians imply/employ the word "Faithful" to mean that they have "Faith" in "Jesus". To be sure, your own statements reveal that you, Mark, keep "Faith" in "God", because you admit that the "spiritual" doesn't concern itself with "evidence". 'Good so far?
Moving on---if we take this SAME connotation of the word "Faithful" and assert that "God is Faithful"---and mind you, this assumes that a "God" has been established---then, again, the notion is non-sensical....especially if we apply the characteristics that Christians attribute to their non-evidential biblegod. Many of which, are as follows: "omniscient", "omnipotent", "omnibenevolent", "ALL-loving", yada, yada....or basically, anything conceivable.(how convenient)
Regardless, "Faith" implies something "EXTRA", whether that be "trust", "hope", "security", or what have you. That said, any "God" with the aforementioned attributes would certainly NOT need anything "EXTRA".
Conclusion: To say that "God is Faithful" is redundant at best; non-sensical(absurd) at worst.
But here, I'll give benefit of doubt. Let's take the word "Faithful" in the context of a "spouse", per your application.
Okay, simple: Firstly, we HAVE evidence that "spouses" exist.
Secondly, if "spouses" were ALL-KNOWING, then the need for them to have "trust", or "faith" in one another, would be obsolete.
Your analogy? Irrelevant conclusion; false dilemma..."The end"......unless you'd like to try again?
Mark....And when I said “Christian” and “true Christian” I was entailing that there are a lot of people out there who try and live a righteous life and therefore call themselves a Christian.
Tsk tsk. Once more, irrelevant conclusion. How people "act" isn't necessarily relevant to how they label themselves. Bottom line---"True Christian", or simply "Christian"---there is no other WAY to become, either one, or the other, except by "self-election". Again, you've made a distinction with a drop of difference.
In regards to "salvation", I previously stated:
"Forgiven?.. FORGIVEN for whAT?....what?.. for something that some alleged "other people" allegedly did? So the idea is that we're BORN "responsible" for someone elses alleged "crime"?...we're "guilty" before we ever come into existence? Furthermore---and what's interesting---is per your barbaric and perverse mythology, your 'God' didn't die for EVERYONE'S 'SIN'....no, only for those who accept the 'free gift'. So what that means is that 'belief' in, and 'acceptence' of, this alleged 'biblegod', is ultimately more important than ANY offense, or 'sin', against humanity. So much for 'justice'."
To which you respond...Are you really so arrogant to think that you don’t have any faults?
Um, ad hominem attack aside---how is my character, one way or the other---and/or, how is the fact that human beings have "faults"---evidence that "God" exists, and/or, that "sin" exists, and/or, that we need to be "forgiven" for something????
Mark: True Christianity is based upon Grace and Forgiveness, not on “being good.”
Good grief!...there you go AGAIN with the term "True Christianity", which is as redundant as saying "Chardonnay wine".
REPEAT: If it wasn't "TRUE Christianity", then it would NOT be "Christianity". You are making a distinction without a difference. In other words, if it's "false Christianity", then it's implicitly understood that it's NOT christianity, right? Furthermore, and more importantly, your statement is a type of non-sequitur....aka affirming the consequence.
In regards to Mark's inquiry about other religionists "attributing" things "to God", etc...I previously made the point:
"Muslims 'attribute' their 'blessings' to 'Allah'; Buddhists "attribute" their blessings to 'Buddha'(non-deity) No astonishing disclosure there, that is, again, unless you live in the Christian bubble.....and you apparently do."
To which you responded....
You obviously don’t understand what I’m saying. MUSLIMS believe that they get into heaven by their works and actions; it’s why they have so many rituals and customs (also why they blow Christians and Americans up).
Forgive me, but what does having "rituals and customs"(which, BTW, Christians have their share....including to symbolically eat the "flesh of Jesus") have to do with "attributions" to a "God", or if the Islamic religion is true or false???
Mark...People are always DOING something to gain salvation.
Tell me, is it your position that NOTHING is required to gain entry into Christian "heaven"?? Mind you, to "keep FAITH" is to comtemplate, and subsequently make a conscious decision to "think" a certain way. 'Care to explain?
Mark asserts...I never said accepting Christianity was an easy thing to do, hence, all the angry controversy.
I never said accepting reality was an easy thing to do, hence, all the indignant, self-delusional rhetoric.
The two duplications supposedly sent in on December 01, 2007 by PJ, pj, are not from the real PJ.
Please do not steal someone else's blog name and use it to post anonymous posts.
If you don't want to use anonymous as your name, please choose something else other than a name(someone else's name I might add) that has already been used on this site.
Also, Jim Arvo, what is your age if you don't mind me asking?
I beg to differ with you.
Yesssss, ATF is challenging the wise Jim Arvo.
You made a serious error in your last post, as to your apparent age.
Based on an extensive poll that I took recently, the consensus of opinion was that you don't look a day over..... **48** !!!
Please update your records to reflect the outcome of our trustworthy poll.
Thank you for your cooperation in this most delicate matter.
ATF (Who has personally seen Jim; albeit via a personal supernatural experience)
Jim,
Are you willing to admit that you are in error with the Gospel Message and "Yours Truly"?
I'll be sure to mark that day on my "Jubliee" calendar.
Well ATF, I suppose I stand corrected...
Gee Jim, don't you get tired doing all this typing while 'STANDING'...LOL
On a more serious note now.
Jim, did you post to the PAM site a few years back?
I saw a post there today, that had a variation of your name, so I was wondering if it was you.
I also noticed that Cliff hasn't been keeping his PAM site up to date, so I wonder if his health has gotten worse?
Does any one know about Cliff?
ATF ( who needs an atheist calendar to mark this very special day down on [g] )
I'm sure things are probably relieving and easier, but I'm not sure if they are 'good.'
Looks like we have another would-be mind-reader here, someone who thinks he can assess the relative quality of our Christian and post-Christian lives with virtually no knowledge of us.
I will admit that a lot if not most Christians out there give a bad portrayal of Christianity.
Yes... Christians like Paul of Tarsus; St. Augustine; John of Patmos; Luther; Calvin. (And IMO your statement makes a lot more sense without quotations around the word 'Christians'.)
When I fall short I must fall back on God.
Actually, young man, it's your own unconscious mind you're falling back on. Not a god. And stop being so hard on yourself with that "perfection" thing -- It is not, never was and never will be a requirement for life on Earth.
Therefore, nothing can be attributed to ourselves, but only to God and Christ alone. Can you name another religion where this is seen?
Well, not off the top of My head. But I consider that kind of self-negation to be a highly undesirable quality. If I were designing a religion, that's one of the things I would *not* put into it under any circumstances.
Christianity isn’t about following a bunch of rules and regulations.
Beg to differ. According to most of the Christian visitors to this site, one must follow the rule "Believe in Jesus" or perish horribly.
Most painful stuff to read. Not to mention this last post's blatant attempt to "show off" some of his big words in this first paragraph. Yikes... It screams of low self-confidance. Turn to Christ friend, He'll help you with that. No need to try to prove anything to anyone, just to God...by seeking to live a good life by obeying His commandments.
Ironically, Boomslang's posts and many others, are chalk full on non sequitur. Hmmm...I'd argue that "atheism" in itself is a non sequitur.
Best of luck to all of you. We'll (Christians) keep you in our prayers.
"Best of luck to all of you. We'll (Christians) keep you in our prayers."
I honestly don't take your post serious. It sounds more less like a joke from someone who is being sarcastic by making fun of christianity.
Me thinks you are spoofing.
"Best of luck to all of you."
I didn't think christians believe in luck.
Not true, Jesus says that we are saved by "Faith" and faith alone with no works period. So therefore following his commandments will not cut the mustard. You can only be saved if you accept Jesus into your heart alone. That's it. Pure and simple and obeying God's commandments will only land you in hell, because if you follow the law, you will be judged by the law.
You "Anonymous" are nothing more than a false convert who teaches false doctrine.
1 JOHN 4:1 "Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world."
You "Anonymous" are the one who I should keep in my prayers since you cannot teach scripture correctly.
Perhaps you are not in the correct christian denomination. My christian denomination is the only "True and Authentic" Denomination, because we teach scripture correctly.
I bet you are a baptist. The baptists also teach false doctrine,and they also don't baptize correctly. Baptists baptize in the name of "The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit". That is not the correct way of baptizing. Anyone who is baptized according to the trinity is hell bound.
In the book of ACTS, it says that we are to baptize in the name of "Jesus" not in the name of "The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit".
the trinity is of the devil, and anyone who teaches is it not a true christian, and is going to burn in hell for eternity.
Unless you learn how to teach bible scripture correctly, you will one day find out just how hot the flames of hell are you "Anonymous" false teacher of the word.
When it schisms again (assuming that this happens within your lifetime, of course) how will you go about deciding which "True&Authentic_2.0" to follow? Inquiring minds want to know.
Answer this question;
Did you know the Lord?
Thank you
There is simply no other way to make the distinction, as the god of Christianity appears to be totally mythical and non-interventionist, and the believers' spiritual experiences entirely subjective and internal.
So, 40zz, one possible answer to your question is "Probably not, because our experiences suggest that there was never a 'Lord' there for us to know. Many of us honestly thought that we 'knew the Lord', and devoted many years of our lives to prayer, study and ministry. In the end we discovered we were most likely just talking to ourselves."
"Did you know the Lord?"
Never met the guy. He never would show up for some reason. He also seems to be quiet shy.
However, do you know the lord? If so do you have like an autograph or a picture of him?
If you have met the lord, tell him to come by my house and visit me. He's stood me up enough the way it is.
If someone believes and declares himself to be a Christian, in My opinion he *is* indeed a Christian until such time as he decides to not be one.
Astreja, I'm assuming when you say "believe' you mean believe in Jesus or the Bible. yes? If so, just believing in Jesus or the Bible doesn't make one a Christian. Demons believe in Jesus and tremble at His name.
Just because someone goes to church doesn't make them a Christian.
And, just because someone claims to be a Chriatian doesn't make them a Christian.
So,I'm now even more curious on how any of you became a Christian in the first place.
For to claim to be an ex-Christian, one had to be a Christian.
So, may I ask, how did any of you become a Christain?
Thank you
Anyone that goes around telling others that they are heading for hell, should take a long hard look at his faith. Are you the true Dan Marvin, because I saw this person post here before and wouldn't have expected such comments?
Thanks for the prayers, I most definitely need all the prayers and graces possible. I'll return the favor. Blessings
Now go away.
To the pseudo-Dan Marvin: Okay, you're starting to get creepy now.
To our latest anonymous: If you're willing to explain to us why we should join you in believing in invisible conscious beings, then please go right ahead. Otherwise, your comments aren't pertinent or appreciated.
To ATF: Yes, I did post several things to Cliff Walker's web site several years ago. I have no idea what's up with Cliff. I hope he's okay.
To Mark: I don't know how you can get caught up--you've got so much to respond to. But I'd be interested to hear what you have to say (if you try to answer the question that have been put to you, that is).
just because someone claims to be a Chriatian doesn't make them a Christian.
Just because someone claims to "know the lord" doesn't mean this "lord" actually exists.
If you use it consistently, so will I. Deal?
Does anyone ever read Boomslang's posts?
Tell me, Anonymous...do you count yourself as "anyone"?...because obviously, you read my posts....and that makes it all worth it.
Anonymous Christian...His punctuation style...bold, caps, questions for answers, etc...
So, punctuation is a bad thing, then?..is that the implication? Yeah, that was a question.
Anonymous Christian....Most painful stuff to read.
I'm going to go "out on a limb" and say that you don't like my posts because of the content; not because of my "punctuation style". Regardless---'don't like it?...CLICK off, because you are certainly under no obligation to read it, or even be ON this site, for that matter.
Anonymous Christian...Not to mention this last post's blatant attempt to "show off" some of his big words in this first paragraph.
Yeah, I suspect if one got the bulk of their education in a Sunday "school", those words might seem "big". Although, "firmament" is a mouthful---care to tell us exactly what the function of a "firmament" is?
Anonymous Christian...Yikes... It screams of low self-confidance.
Self-"confidance", is it?
Anonymous, with the exception of one, you disbelieve in all the same gods that I disbelieve in. Does that mean you have low self-confidence?
Anonymous Christian...Turn to Christ friend, He'll help you with that.
Turn to reason, Christian, it'll help you with that nasty little mind-virus of yours.
Anonymous Christian...No need to try to prove anything to anyone...
I don't believe gods. The end. I don't need to "prove" my disbelief---to you, or anyone else. I'm waiting on you, the Theist, to "prove" that invisible disembodied flying zombies are floating around in the clouds.
Anonymous Christian continues...just[prove something] to God...by seeking to live a good life by obeying His commandments.
Anony, I don't need to be "commanded" to live a "good life". That's something I strive to do on my own. But by all means---if you feel that you'll suddenly get the urge to start killing people, and to tell lies at every given opportunity, then you should definitely keep your theology. I readily concede that some people need a "Divine babysitter".
Anonymous Christian....Ironically, Boomslang's posts and many others, are chalk full on non sequitur. Hmmm...I'd argue that "atheism" in itself is a non sequitur.
Hmmm...I suspect that you don't know what the word means---but to give benefit of the doubt, go ahead and feel free to explain to us how "atheism", in general, is "non-sequitur". Listening, and eager to be enlightened.
Anonymous Christian... Best of luck to all of you. We'll (Christians) keep you in our prayers.
Best of luck to you. I'll keep my lucky rabbit's foot in my pocket in the hopes that you'll discover reason one day.
Right. Much like, just because someone walks in a pizza parlor, doesn't mean they like pizza. Bravo.
40zz...And, just because someone claims to be a [Christian] doesn't make them a Christian.
Regardless of what one "claims to be"---labels/titles aren't evidence that invisible beings exist.
zz40...So,I'm now even more curious on how any of you became a Christian in the first place.
Read the testimonies.
zz40...For to claim to be an ex-Christian, one had to be a Christian.
Yup.
zz40...So, may I ask, how did any of you become a [Christian].
The same way ANY person becomes a Christian---by believing that Christianity was true.
Best of luck to you. I'll keep my lucky rabbit's foot in my pocket in the hopes that you'll discover reason one day.
Boom',
Firstly: I for one read and LEARN from your posts, so ignore that anon fool.
Secondly: Did you ever wonder why some think a rabbits foot is lucky?
I mean, it sure wasn't very lucky for the rabbit that it came from...LOL
ATF (who thought he'd just ask that obvious rabbit question)
Apparently Passerby has a very short memory, or he does not know how to read. In case you have forgotten Passerby you quoting scripture is nothing more than a bunch of mindless babbling.
You make yourself look even more pathetic and weak minded by quoting your little sayings out of your 2,000 year old ancient superstitious book.
Passerby, are you so weak minded that you can't even think for yourself. I see you as a little piss ant who crawls around on the ground searching for his savior, because the poor little baby known as Passerby is a loser in the game of life.
Stick your bible where the sun doesn't shine, and stop insulting the intelligence of others who are more enlightened than you are.
It is "YOU" Passerby who needs to be educated. Not us.
Now quote your scripture if you like, however I will remind you once again that we are not phased or intimidated by anything your "Holy Babble" has to say.
Go out and help someone do something that is productive instead sitting on your lazy ass quoting a bunch of babble. Go out and feed the poor and do something constructive.
It's like I've always said, "Talk is cheap, and that is all christians know how to do".
However, I can understand the frustration of christians like yourself. You are frustrated because none of us take seriously, nor will we listen to you, and your precious little savior Jesus still has not returned to earth to redeem people like you.
Your God has abandoned you Passerby. He's not coming back. Oh how will you cope with life?
It's only a matter of time before reality bites you in the ass.
You're not very bright are you?
Most people on this site are way ahead of you when it comes to knowledge of christianity which makes them the perfect weapon when it comes to exposing the lies of christianity. Some of these guys/gals are pros when it comes to striking down the faulty faith of christianity.
I suggest you leave this site before you make a fool out of yourself. You are way out of your league.
No "The Trinity" is not found anywhere in the bible, so therefore you are WRONG!!!!
ANONYMOUS SAID.....There is nothing wrong with obeying God's commandments, in fact, it is required. If you love Christ, following His law simply follows.
Are you saying that salvation is not enough?
EPH 2:8,9 "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith- and not from yourselves, it is the gift of God- not by works, so that no one can boast"
So Anonymous if you "Live by the law" you will be judged by "The Law".
You insult Christ by saying his free gift of Salvation is not enough. You also insult Christ by saying that what he did on the cross was not good enough, because just simply accepting Jesus into your life is not good enough. We have to do works to impress him instead.
ANONYMOUS SAID.....I think you missed my sentence "Turn to Christ friend, He'll help you with that.".
I don't think you've read your bible. It seems to me that you need to turn to Christ Anonymous by getting into his holy and sacred word and getting the facts, not your version of what the bible says.
PASSERBY SAID........Not sure how anyone can miss this, it's straight from scripture.
Not sure how you or Anonymous can miss this, this is also straight from the bible:
ACTS 2:38 "Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit."
I consider it to be the incorrect way of being bapitized. It says to baptize in the name of "Jesus" meaning "Singular" not "In the Names of" meaning plural, and once again Passerby you are not willing to admit that "The Trinity" is not found in the bible.
PASSERBY SAID....So which of the other two members of the Trinity to you consider the devil? The Father or the Holy Spirit?
None of them. I just believe in doing exactly what scripture says to do, instead of twisting around like you do Passerby. You sound like a typical baptist if you ask me, because it is the baptists who are involved in this incorrect "3 God" analogy. Jesus is all of them in one. Not three.
PASSERBY SAID.....Friend, you and I know that the Father and the Holy Spirit are referrenced more than once in scripture, why would you be so averse to being baptised in their names?
Yes, I know that, however you seem to continue to ignore what we are told to do in "ACTS 2:38". Apparently Passerby you do not believe in doing what the bible literally says. Instead you and others come up with your little "Man Made" Bible Words like Trinity which causes deception.
PASSERBY SAID......You sound like a disbeliever to me that is makerading as a believer.
Ok, so if someone doesn't measure up to your own personal interperatation of the bible then they are a "disbeliever". You have turned around and passed judgement on me also. You must be a "Southern Baptist", because you talk like one along with the Southern Baptists demon deception known as "The Trinity".
Once again Passerby based on your comment that you just made to me, you ignore more scripture:
MAT 7:1 "Judge not, that ye be not judged."
You have just judged me, so therefore God is going to judge you. Plus you called me a "Heretic" one time. Remember that?
You need to get out of that false "Trinity believing Church" that worships 3 Gods Passerby, and get into an Apostolic Church that believes in the true "Oneness Doctrine" of Jesus Christ.
I'll pray for you that you will see the error of your way Brother.
In His Name,
Danny
You really shouldn't make fun of Christianity friend. You know you make zero sense when you deny one verse, yet hold on to another, without opening your mind up to the way in which they compliment each other.
To judge you, would be to condemn you and no true Christian would do this to anyone, not even to his worst enemy. All I said was that you sound like a disbeliever. If I thought you were being honest I would continue this discussion but you only appear to be goading me on. This "conversation" is over.
"You know you make zero sense when you deny one verse, yet hold on to another, without opening your mind up to the way in which they compliment each other"
No Passerby, you have decided to end this conversation, because I backed you into a corner, by showing how faulty the bible really is. You are halfway correct. I was once a believer, until I found out that what the bible says is mostly garbage.
Verses do not "Compliment" one another. They "Contradict" on another instead. Acts 2:38 and Matthew 28:19. Hey! Don't take my word for it, ask anyone who is part of the "Oneness" doctrine that is taught in many Apostolic Churches. They claim that people who believe in the trinity are teaching false doctrine.
And you still ignored the fact that the word "Trinity" is not mentioned in the bible and that it is a "Man Made" word.
Passerby Said:
"To judge you, would be to condemn you and no true Christian would do this to anyone, not even to his worst enemy"
I see christians going around passing judgment on others and each other all of the time. For example:
SOUTHERN BAPTISTS JUDGE CATHOLICS
CHURCH OF GOD JUDGES BAPTISTS
Are you saying that "you" are a true christian Passerby? Ok, prove that you are a "True Christian". Who are the "True Christians"?
Passerby Said:
"If I thought you were being honest I would continue this discussion but you only appear to be goading me on. This "conversation" is over."
I did exactly what I set out to do, and expose your faulty faith and show just how divided christians are and how scripture contradicts itself. I know you will never admit that I backed you into a corner, however you know good and well that I kicked your ass in this debate and I proved my point about the bible and christians in general.
So go ahead Passerby and bail out like I knew you would. However, I'm sure you will be back, because you are addicted to this site and you can't resist posting on here.
As far as making fun of christianity, I will continue to make fun of it, because it is nothing more than a joke.
I find that my past knowledge and exposure to the christian faith can be used as a very powerful weapon against people like you Passerby.
So come on back so I can give you another taste of your own medicine.
The best way to strike down a christian's debate is to use what they believe against them. Give them a dose of their own medicine, and then watch them run.
What I said about the "Trinity" is true as many of you already know. Like most christians Passerby would not even acknowledge what I was saying. He will not admit that the trinity is a "Man Made" word, and the fact that many christians do not believe in the trinity.
Once you throw scripture in the face of a christian, it makes them retreat.
The sad part of it, is that there couldn't be anything more serious. When we do finally meet Jesus, I assure you that there is nothing, no name, no rock, no mountain, that will be big enough to hide behind. You can make the experience less painful by turning to Him for help.
"Ok, prove that you are a "True Christian". Who are the "True Christians"?
True Christians are those that are inwardly Christians. People that love Jesus and live their lives endeavouring to be continuously aware of His presence. In other words, they desire to keep themselvse in a constant state of prayer with their Master. True Christians, put simply, love Jesus.
The Trinity is more real that you and I because the Trinity made you and I. Just because you don't find the word "Trinity" in the bible does not provide any substantial proof that the Triune God is false doctrine. Try to find the word "Bible" in the bible. Try to find "Eucharist" in the bible. Try to find "Catholic" in the bible. You won't because it is their idea that you will find. Man can give names to ideas to organize his thoughts and his communication. We could certainly have gone on and said, I'll see you Sunday when we get together to eat the bread that will be blessed by our Shepherd which then becomes, in a very real but spiritual way, the body of Christ...but that seems a little lengthy, no? Same thing with the words Catholic and Trinity, their ideas are right in the Bible.
BTW, thank you for relenting from your deception. These are characteristics of those that follow Christ...to be true and to seek the Truth.
"You can make the experience less painful by turning to Him for help"
I turned to Jesus for help many times in complete brokeness during my time in the christian faith, and instead of Jesus lending me a helping hand, I got nothing from him.
Do you hear me Passerby. "Jesus didn't do a damn thing to help me with my problems? He actually made them worse. I was better off before I got involved in that cult that you are still a part of.
I am so sick and tired of arrogant christians like yourself who thinks they know about every single person's life that posts on this site. My own personal experiences dealing with your faith is evidence enough for me to decide that it doesn't work, and don't sit there insulting my intelligence. You don't know what you are even talking about.
You have no regards for what people have been through and the damage that people have had to endure because of a belief that you carry. You are blind to the truth Passerby. The faith that you believe in has caused much damage to the lives of many people, because God failed to deliver on his promises.
Before you claim all of the blessings that God has poured upon the lives of other christians, tell me Passerby, if that's so, then how come God doesn't pour out those same blessings on the lives of others who need them, why he refuses to give those other people in life who are struggling the same breaks? After all God is no respecter of persons.
I credit my pulling away from christianity to my ex-girlfriend who was an atheist. She made this one key statement to me a couple of years ago.
"There is much more to life than religion and Jesus."
She was right. And it wasn't just her. Her and many others reminded me that "The Christian Faith" just isn't working for me. I could no longer make decisions in my life because I was so consumed with worrying about serving God and seeking him. I was told that I no longer had a mind of my own anymore. I was going no where in life, then I woke up and walked away from the faith.
You tell me to turn to a dead and invisible man for help? How foolish and absurd for you to make such a unrealistic comment. You don't even know what the hell you are talking about. You don't know jack shit about me or anyone else on here.
I got help alright. Through secular help I have been able to undo quiet a bit of damage from "Christian Brainwashing" that was done to me over the years by your stupid bible, and people like "YOU".
So don't sit there and tell me and others that you know what is best for our lives. It is "YOUR GOD" who failed me along with comments from christians like you that did the damage. Your God was just as guilty because he didn't do a damn thing to prevent it.
It is a damn shame that people like you crawl around on your pathetic little knees seeking after this "Mythical Monster" named God who felt it was justified to punish thousands of people who did not sin the garden of Eden. You sir are insane and should be put in a Mental Hospital.
That is exactly the reason why I no longer desire to chase after your mythical cult leader. You christians think you can scare someone with your threats? Well guess what? It doesn't work on me any longer? You actually think I am stupid enough to fall for that kind of deception? Tell your God/Jesus to bring it on!!!
Say what you want, but I do not take your "Bible Threats" serious any longer. That is the biggest thing that robbed me of my dreams for years and it has taken many years to recover from the damage that was done to my life because of "Christianity". I am not someone you want to tangle with. I am like a wounded animal when it comes to christians talking down to me.
A former christian colleague of mine found that out the hard way back in the Summer. He realized he could not present his faulty case for Christ so he bailed out like you did earlier. He could not shake off what all I told him about his faith, and even he admitted that he may be wrong about what he believes.
I am pretty much bored with you Passerby. Your god is a freaking joke. Tell him to bring it on! Tell him to get his bad ass down here!
All you know how to do Passerby is make biblical threats towards people who choose not to live by your faith. You have no respect for what others to choose to believe and how they choose to live. People like you continue to come onto "OUR" website pushing your biblical propaganda down our throats.
You do nothing but harass others on here. You deserve any type of disrespect that you get. You are a very stupid person Passerby. You have been told time and time again to leave people alone, and you continue to harass people with your constant "Bible Trolling".
You also remind me of what kind of "Bible Beating Asshole" that I was at one time. You also bring back a lot of bad memories for me back when I was serving your god faithfully. You remind me of everything that I lost because of following your stupid imaginary God.
Just so you know Passerby, you pour gasoline on my fire when it comes to me resenting your beliefs and your faith.
You christians are nothing more than cult members who try to rob other's of "True American Freedom" by trying to shove your values down the throats of others. You continue to involve yourselves in politics and you continue to interfere with the rights of gays and other minority organizations.
Just so you know, I happen to be a GLBT advocate. I now accept people for who they are, not what they believe or what type of life that they live. That is truly loving and accepting others.
I am not going back to your god, nor do I desire to. You only motivate me even more to fight for the rights of organizations that chrisitans continue to oppress. You only fuel my fire Passerby.
I am through being threatened with your ancient religion and your imaginary god. Your god "Does not exist" and he has never proven himself in this modern day world. I believe that people like you who continue to harass others with your faith should be put in jail. The days of christians having control and power in this country are numbered.
The more christians like you try to threaten people like me with your cultic brainwashing, the more you shoot yourself in the foot. My pain from christianity, and your lying god has motivated me to expose christian frauds like you.
Once again, you deny that scripture contradicts itself. It is obvious that you cannot logically debate anyone on this site. You continue to use the same old worn out argument. You are like a Kindergarten kid trying to debate a College Professor with your "Child Like Naive Belief System". You are out of your league.
In closing I will once again remind you that another day has passed and your JESUS has failed to return once again.
Thanks for continuing to prove just what a faulty cult your faith is, and how stupid you are. I now see you (Passerby) as an annoying little pest, who does not listen to reason. You are not qualified to debate anyone on this site. All you are Passerby is a weak minded fool who knows how to do nothing but talk and quote scripture that has no power or action behind it. It's all a bunch of worthless words on paper. Your bible is nothing but talk and your god is nothing but talk with "No Action". Jesus is not coming back.
In closing, I knew you would reply back. You are fighting a losing battle and making a fool out of yourself with your constant biblical babbling.
I've said it many times, that christians are too predictable. None of you present a challenge.
Go thump your bible elsewhere, and leave people alone. You are not welcomed here.
Has it ever occurred to you "Passerby" that you are also one of those christians who are guilty of hurting others?
There are people who come onto this site seeking refuge from people like you, and you add to their pain even more.
If you do not intend on causing people pain, then simply quit posting on here. Mind your own business. I'm sure you wouldn't like it if an atheist tried to force his beliefs or rules on your either.
which religion comes closest to the truth, but we can be sure of one thing:
God does not love you.
Look at all the cruelty and misery in the world, which God does nothing to stop. Right now,
as you are reading this, there are children in various places around the world being raped
and tortured. Most of us would risk our lives, give up our lives, to save them if we could.
God stands by and does nothing. God has abandoned these children, and clearly does not
love them. God does not love you, either.
There are some religions which claim that "God's love is a different kind of love", which is
supposed to explain and justify what appears to be God's divine indifference. This is total
bullshit. If I claim that I love my neighbor, and then set his house on fire and shoot him in
the head, anyone can see that my "love" is not love at all.
Another fallacy along these lines is the statement that, "God doesn't give us more than we
can handle in life". This is a ridiculous statement. Go to a mental institution, go to the ward
for those who are seriously disturbed, and you'll see people who just sit and rock back and
forth all day, staring off into space, or screaming at nonexistant terrors. God has given
them more than they could handle, and now they're totally broken.
So you have no loving God watching over you, making sure you get what you need. You
don't get what you need in life, you don't get what you want, you don't get what you
deserve. You get what you get
This "Free Will" thing is nothing more than a lame excuse to justify the actions of a mean and cruel God who is partners in crime with Satan.
That is who God really is. A liar, murderer, and a thief who preys on his own creation by brainwashing them with a lie called "The Bible", so they will think that "It's ok for God to allow this to happen, because he is looking out for our best interests".
Anyone who believes that God loves you is naive and is a fool. Take a look at the world around us, which is evidence enough to prove that there is no such thing as a loving God. God's actions speak louder than his worthless words called "The Bible".
That my friends is solid evidence.
believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life" - John 3:16
Apparently we are supposed to be impressed by this. However:
First of all, "only begotten son". God, being omnipotent, could have billions of sons
any time he wanted, so the fact that Jesus was his only son is not terribly meaningful.
Secondly, what's the big deal about Jesus dying for us? I mean, he came back to life
a few days later, didn't he? And, being omnipotent, he can apparently transition back
and forth from being alive to dead whenever he wants, so his death was not any sort
of sacrifice whatsoever.
He did, however, allow himself to die in an unpleasant away, enduring some
moderate amount of torture or pain for a few days. It was a far easier death than a lot
of cancer or AIDS sufferers face, but still, it was something. "Christ suffered briefly
for your sins!" is more accurate, but I guess this slogan wouldn't be all that great a
selling point for Christianity.
Or how about, "For God liked the world somewhat, so he allowed the only son he
ever bothered to have to suffer briefly, so that some people could escape the hell
which God created".
If I could somehow cleanse millions of people of their sins and save them all from hell by dying in some unpleasant fashion, I would be
willing to do so. And I do NOT have the ability to bring myself back to life, which
would make mine a far bigger sacrifice than that of Jesus. I guess this makes me
more loving than either God or Jesus.
Passerby, here's the scoop:
Your faith did not work for us. We've already wasted precious years of our lives and are not willing to waste one day more. Our truth is to walk away from the Jesus-myth.
Anonymous: Has it ever occurred to you, "Passerby" that you are also one of those christians who are guilty of hurting others? There are people who come onto this site seeking refuge from people like you, and you add to their pain even more.
Read that statement until you understand it, Passerby.
(The sad part of it, is that there couldn't be anything more serious.)
The real sad part of it is people like Passerby who live in today's modern world that have nothing else better to do with their lives than post worthless Xtian Spam.
Passerby's Opinion:
(When we do finally meet Jesus, I assure you that there is nothing, no name, no rock, no mountain, that will be big enough to hide behind. You can make the experience less painful by turning to Him for help.)
They've been saying that for 2,000 years now and nothing has changed.
Who cares about some man who died 2,000 years ago? I sure as hell don't.
Fuck Jesus, Fuck Church, and Fuck Christians!
Are you too stupid to understand that you are not welcomed here?
I realize that once you become a christian that you lose all common sense.
You are the true meaning of insanity. You keep on doing the same thing over and over again on this site and you keep on expecting different results everytime apparently.
When are you going to get a clue that nobody wants you around? Even your old buddy Dan finally figured that out.
However, if you still can't figure it out, then I know a good "Secular Therapist" who can help you make rational decisions.
Or perhaps you are just frustrated because you haven't been laid.
Tell me Passerby, does that mean scripture is no longer valid once an Atheist quotes it to you? So when an Atheist quotes scripture to a christian, the scripture no longer applies to a christian.
Talking about having a "Double Standard".
To: "Danny Marvin" (CSCWS)
BTW, thank you for relenting from your deception. These are characteristics of those that follow Christ...to be true and to seek the Truth.
I hate to tell you this CSCWS, but I think Passerby just insulted you by comparing you to a christian.
That's essentially all that Fatima and Garabandal were to the world. God asking us to turn from our wickedness. If you think that hating God, the one who gave you life, isn't wicked, then your moral compass has really been distorted by this world. Jesus truly does love you more than anyone and He truly can help you realign your "compass".
Peace
Nope, me neither.
Listen closely. Your apologetics are completely impotent around here. You will not...repeat, YOU WILL NOT reconvert anyone back to your theology(not in general, nor to your particular denomination) by parroting scripture; by appeals to emotion; by affirming the consequence(which you do in practically every post)....OR, by attempting weak, burned-out analogies---analogies that are light-years away from even being applicable to your premise.
For instance, the "parent/child" analogy is as old as the hills. It fails every time, and there's a good reason for this. Passerby/Marc, we HAVE EMPIRICAL, TANGIBLE, TESTABLE EVIDENCE for "parents".
So, that kind of rules out your attempt to equate doubting the existence of "God", with doubting the existence of mothers and fathers. Do you get this?(rhetorical)
Secondly, while I won't deny there are some pretty unkind human beings, I don't know of any who have set their children on fire for being disobedient; I don't of any who would mercilessly incinerate their very own child, for not following the household "rules".
Passerby/Marc....If you think that hating God[EDIT]
Passerby/Marc, try and let this penetrate your cranium: "Atheists" DO NOT "hate God"; "Atheists" simply do not believe that a "God" is real; that a "God" is actual; that a "God" is factual; that a "God" is existent.
It would be as non-sensical as me telling you, "If you think that hating the Great Pumpkin will get you less trick-or-treaters, then your moral compass has really been distorted by this world."
'Sound idiotic? So do you. Please respect our wishes, and leave. Thanks.
That's essentially all that Fatima and Garabandal were to the world. God asking us to turn from our wickedness.
I thought the reason this god of yours couldn't prove he existed was because doing so would cause us to lose our free will. Now you're saying he did prove his existence at Fatima and Garabandal, so your free will argument falls apart. In addition, why would the supreme being that created the universe have to behave like an angry human parent? It seems more likely that you are projecting your own ideas onto an imaginary parent that you call god, in an attempt to give them more weight.
A minister decided to do something a little different one Sunday morning.
He said 'Today, in church, I am going to say a single word and you are going
to help me preach.
Whatever single word I say, I want you to sing whatever hymn that comes to
your mind.'
The pastor shouted out 'CROSS.'
Immediately the congregation started singing in unison, 'THE OLD RUGGED
CROSS.'
The pastor hollered out 'GRACE.' The congregation began to sing 'AMAZING
GRACE, how sweet the sound.'
The pastor said 'POWER.' The congregation sang 'THERE IS POWER IN THE
BLOOD.'
The Pastor said 'SEX' The congregation fell into total silence.
Everyone was in shock. They all nervously began to look around at each other
afraid to say anything.
.
.
.
.
Then all of a sudden, way from in the back of the church,
a little old 87 year old grandmother stood up and began to sing 'PRECIOUS
MEMORIE S.'
Pass this along and make someone smile today (I just did).
Gotta Love Little Old 'Christian' Ladies.
Thanks
Mark responded: “The use of snide immature comments really does nothing to me, just makes me less inclined to listen to anything else you have to say.”
Snide? Immature? I’m serious! You have nothing to apologize to me for (unless it’s for preaching at our blog). If i were after an apology, i’d go after all the people who taught me Christianity as i was growing up. Anyway, should you decide to listen to what i have to say, please read the site disclaimer first.
Mark wrote: “Of course I can understand why it seems silly to you, but that’s only because of your beliefs. One who can really never understand is the one who never takes things from an honest standpoint. So since you already have the preconceived idea that Christianity is just a figment of our imaginations of course I understand why it would seem silly, only a fool would see it as otherwise. However, you can’t take an honest standpoint on the matter, so your mind is trapped inside a tiny little box that will never know anything than what it WANTS to accept.”
Help me to understand you. Are you accusing me of lying to myself? And what’s this about a preconceived idea?
Mark, what do you know about me? I was a Christian for more than twice as long as you’ve been alive. I was baptized a Christian as an infant, which entailed a promise on my parents part to raise me as a Christian, and they kept that promise. They told me about God before i learned to read and write. I had Christianity drilled into my brain every day in elementary school. I was confirmed a Christian, by my own free will, at age 14. I Joined a Christian youth group in high school. I continued my Christian education and search for Christian spirituality through college into adulthood. I did so because i was taught that it was true, and i accepted that what i want to be true is irrelevant to the truth.
I was willing to live the Christian life for the promise of eternal life. Do you think that i wanted to believe that heaven is a baseless fantasy?
What the FUCK do you know about what my mind is all about???
Mark wrote: “I can see where a lot of you are coming from.”
I responded: “No, you can’t, otherwise you wouldn’t have written what you did. Please drop that arrogant presumption from your head, right now.”
Mark responded: “Don’t assume. I can too; I’ve taken an honest standpoint on both sides and I can’t accept what you believe, I’d have to degrade my mind and lie to myself.”
I didn’t assume anything. I simply read what you wrote about us, and what you wrote about us is plainly wrong. I’m not asking you to lie to yourself. I’m asking you to quit believing that you know where we’re coming from. You don’t
Listen closely. Your apologetics are completely impotent around here. You will not...repeat, YOU WILL NOT reconvert anyone back to your theology(not in general, nor to your particular denomination) by parroting scripture; by appeals to emotion; by affirming the consequence(which you do in practically every post)....OR, by attempting weak, burned-out analogies---analogies that are light-years away from even being applicable to your premise.
For instance, the "parent/child" analogy is as old as the hills. It fails every time, and there's a good reason for this. "Passerby", we HAVE EMPIRICAL, TANGIBLE, TESTABLE EVIDENCE for "parents".
So, that kind of rules out your attempt to equate doubting the existence of "God", with doubting the existence of mothers and fathers. Do you get this?(rhetorical)
Secondly, while I won't deny there are some pretty unkind human beings, I don't know of any who have set their children on fire for being disobedient; I don't of any who would mercilessly incinerate their very own child, for not following the household "rules".
"Passerby"....If you think that hating God[EDIT]
"Passerby", try and let this penetrate your cranium: "Atheists" DO NOT "hate God"; "Atheists" simply do not believe that a "God" is real; that a "God" is actual; that a "God" is factual; that a "God" is existent.
It would be as non-sensical as me telling you, "If you think that hating the Great Pumpkin will get you less trick-or-treaters, then your moral compass has really been distorted by this world."
'Sound idiotic? So do you. Please respect our wishes, and leave. Thanks.
And you don't think God is wicked for putting a curse on all of mankind for the sins of Adam & Eve?
People are wicked, because "God" made them wicked when he spoke his curse on all generations (past, present, and future). You can run your mouth all you want Passerby, I do not justify the actions of your God who did the following:
1) God created an evil being known as Satan.
2) God Punishes all humans for a sin they did not committ, and uses manipulation by threatening all of us that if we don't accept his son we will all burn in hell. You call that unconditional love?
3) God allows people (Who your God and people like "YOU" consider to be wicked people also) to be raped, murdered and killed.
Think about this one Passerby. A cute little innocent baby comes into this world and your God says that he/she is an evil being and deserves hell fire. How can you justify such a sick claim as that Passerby? How can you continue to defend the true evil doer who's name is "God"? You are just as sick as your God is for doing so. When you take up for your God you are defending a known criminal.
Your God doesn't care about people, his actions have proven that he does not so don't you preach at others on here little man with your holier than thou philosophy! Your God has not backed up his claims that you hold so dearly in real life. He hasn't done anything but stood by and allowed evil to come into the world while he sits on his butt and demands people to worship him and praise him.
God cares only about himself, and down hand me that crap about how he sent his poor little son to die for him, when it was "GOD" himself who didnt' really die in the first place. Don't you ever throw that in anyone else's face ever again you sick creep! Your God got his son back, but how about that mother who lives in the "REAL WORLD" when her son or daughter died, did she get them back, HELL NO! She didn't.
God made no sacrifice, because Jesus brought himself back to life.
That story of how he died on a cross does not phase me. I care only about "REAL" living people who live in the "REAL" world, not some mythical ancient claim that supposedly happened 2,000 years ago.
Passerby Wrote: "Jesus truly does love you more than anyone and He truly can help you realign your "compass"."
Read my above statements again Passerby about how much your "Jesus" loves us. That's all you christians do is give lip service, however in "REALITY" Jesus has never taken any kind of action to prove so, and once again his death on a cross was a joke, considering it was "GOD" who killed himself and was able to bring himself back to life. There was no real death.
You are no longer worth debating, and I refuse to read anymore of your posts. You are a pitiful little man Passerby, and you disgust me!
Tell your Jesus to do the right thing and start loving (ALL) people unconditionally without attachments in regards to serving him.
If your Jesus can't come forward and start showing love by healing the sick and getting rid of wicked in the world without anyone having to be tossed into hell, then he is not worth my time. Nor are you.
Get a life, and respect the way other people choose to live their lives. Other words, mind your own business, and stay out of the personal lives of other people jerk!
Passerby responds...You're absolute right about that...conversions don't come from man. Recognizing that conversions come from God...
Once again, this is a perfect example of what I said before. WHAT "God", Passerby? You unceasingly, and annoyingly, affirm the consequence...i.e..you merely assert what you seek to affirm.(and amazingly, you still contradict yourself)
In any event, establish an evidential "God", first, and then we can go back-n-forth about what can, or cannot, be "recognized" about this "God", m'kay?
Passerby continues...I still don't see how you can speak for everyone.
I don't claim to speak for everyone. Nonetheless, if I recall correctly, the OWNER of this privately funded website has asked you to leave, and also, to read the disclaimer. Either way, IMO, you contribute nothing here, because you are incapable of taking your touted beliefs beyond "I believe". And of course, that's where "Faith" gets you----NO WHERE. Or wait, maybe you have evidence, today? What day is it(?)
It seems you have "evidence" one minute, and the next minute, when you can't explain something adequately, it's back to "Faith". Circular. Don't you get dizzy from going in circles?
1 Why did god disregard our free will by revealing himself at Fatima and Garabandal?
2 Why does a god who has the power and intellect to create the entire universe have to behave like a bad human parent, to the point of threatening his "children" with death and torture?
3 Why are we humans capable of showing unconditional love, yet god's "love" is conditional?
I've grown weary with you time and time again, and now again.
Please honor my request and go away. If you refuse, then I'll provide you with a muzzle.
Have a tremendously rosary week!
Yes, the webmaster is free to delete what he deems inappropriate, as it IS his website. I'm glad you realize that. As for suppressing "truth", what you offer is OPINION. To deem it "truth" is arrogant. If you can bring yourself to admit that you too are a human, and therefore fallible just like everybody else, then maybe your posts could be taken more seriously.
As for Matthew 28:19, you might want to start here. Your own pope thinks it's a Roman addition, and Eusebius provides some rather compelling evidence that it's not original. Of course, 1 John 5:7-8 is a much much later (16th century) addition. Those are the only verses that directly support the notion of the trinity.
No, people change, because they choose to change. People improve their lives, because they choose to improve their lives. I refuse to give credit to some invisible dead bible god who did nothing for me. Unlike "YOU" Passerby I have faith in my own abilities. I know how to make decisions for myself without having to get down on my knees praying to the wind about making a decision.
I also like Boomslang's posts. I love the way he takes christian nonsense and shreds it to pieces with his logic and reality thinking.
Keep up the great work Boomslang! This site would not be the same without you. You are truly a "Freedom Fighter" for all of us who have entered the world of "True Freedom", away from the oppression known as "Christianity".
As for Passerby, you are fighting a losing battle, and you are beating a dead horse.
Passerby, are you referring to this question of mine from another post:
"Tell me Passerby, does that mean scripture is no longer valid once an Atheist quotes it to you? So when an Atheist quotes scripture to a christian, the scripture no longer applies to a christian."
My question is "legit", unlike your constant rambling on this site about your bible God. I noticed you chickened out after you discovered that "Danny" was not a christian. I guess you think that when an atheist quotes scripture back to a christian, that the scripture is no longer valid, and it no longer applies to you, because you are a goody, goody, self-righteous christian.
Danny was right when he told you that many other christians such as the Apostolics do not support or believe in the Trinity. Don't take my or his word for it. Check it out for yourself. It seems that other christians do not agree with you about the trinity.
http://jesus-messiah.com/apologetics/catholic/trinity.html
http://www.spiritualabuse.org/issues/onenessvtrinity.html
I will also remind you Passerby that "YOU" are the one who has come onto our site spamming your biblical nonsense. I may not speak for everyone else on here, however I know that you are not welcomed here.
So don't get smart with me about my question not being legit. You should know better than to come onto an "Anti-Christian" website spamming scripture and other biblical nonsense. This site is not for "YOU" it is for us. You have violated our territory.
It took me years to get away from people like you, so I'm telling you to leave this site and other people alone. Respect what other people want.
I have no sympathy for christians like you who get persecuted and disrespected on here, because you open yourself up for attacks. Christians wouldn't get persecuted so much if they would learn to stay out of other people's business. So don't expect me to sympathize with you poor persecuted christians.
All christians like you deserve every bit of hardship that you get, since you all bring it on yourselves.
And as far as you serving God, and sharing what you call in your own arrogant opinion the "TRUTH", if Jesus/God is so limited in power that he can't reveal his plan on his own without having to depend on weaker individuals known as "Humans" or some 2,000 year old book then he is not even worth mentioning period.
I find it very insulting anytime someone says that a 2,000 year old book of "Ancient Fairy Tales" outweighs modern day science, technology, and education. What an insult to the progress of today's modern world.
Christians like you, who live in America don't even know what "Real Persecution" is. I doubt very seriously if you would be able to survive "Real Persecution" if someone physically beat you to near death, and broke you mentally. I would say that you and most other arrogant American Christians would reject Jesus in a minute once you were mentally tortured, and broken. You American christians whine and cry about when someone talks down to you or bad about your faith that you have been persecuted. Give me a break!
I guess the reason why you keep coming back onto this site is so you can be persecuted by others, which is your way of scoring brownie points with your God according to MAT 5:10.
If you want to truly be persecuted I suggest you do us all a favor and go over to Iraq, Iran, or Afghanistan preaching your good news about Jesus to all of those Christ hating Muslims, and see what happens to you then. You'll win the jackpot over there in regards to scoring major brownie "Persecution" points with your God.
Oh, you're one of them, "A happily married christian". "Pukes".
However, this is a serious question Passerby, and since you are married I want to hear your perspective on this.
Tell me Passerby. How come God would never bless any of my relationships with women? I have been engaged twice to two different girls in the past. I met both of them in church, and both of them cheated on me. I have never been content as a single person, and I burn in lust.
Paul does say that if you cannot control your sexual lust that it is better to marry. However, God never did seem to care about the fact that I was burning in lust, because he never did anything to fix either one of my engagements after my ex fiances both cheated on me, nor has God has ever made an effort to lead the right woman to me.
Even though I served him faithfully for years he never has done anything to bless me with a woman, he never has done anything to remove my desire to marry one day, and he has never done anything to remove my sexual lust. So as a result I fell into sexual sin after keeping myself pure for many years.
I was someone who served God faithfully in the church, I use to read the word, went out witnessing for Christ, and I fasted and prayed several times back when I use to go up into the mountains alone to seek his will. Even though I thought I knew "God's" will for me according to his holy word, I was always wrong. It seems that God cannot make himself clear to me.
Now explain to me why it is that you seem to be one of the "Chosen One's" who God has looked upon with favor by giving you a wife? What did you do that was so special? I thought God was no respecter of persons. If you can have a wife, why can't I have one too? God never would provide that answer to me for some reason. He's always remained silent, and has never revealed anything to me. I busted my butt trying to serve God for years, and that's the thanks I got from him.
I was told by several other christians that I need to put my faith in Jesus and be content with Jesus alone. Those same christians who told me that are also happily married, so why should I listen to them? Any christian who is married has no business telling a discontent single person like myself to be content with Jesus alone. They are hypocrites for saying that, and they are not qualified to tell me such rubbish.
Because if that were true that Jesus is enough, then why get married in the first place? God did say in Genesis that it is not good for man to be alone. He sure must think that it is good for me to be alone, and he must think it is good for me to burn in continuous lust and commit sexual sin.
I wanted to be faithfully married, and do it God's way, however God just doesn't seem to care enough about me to bless my relationships with women by not answering my prayers and leaving me to burn in lust. No thanks to him.
So tell me Passerby, why are you married? Isn't Jesus enough? Did you get married because you were not content with Jesus alone?
I get so sick and damn tired of christians who come onto this site who are happily married. Hell, I would be happy with God too if he had blessed me with a good wife.
I'm sure that you will say that even if God took your wife away from you, that you would still remain faithful to him. That's easy for someone like you to say that, because it has not happened to you.
Well, after years and years of struggling with getting a direct answer from God, I finally gave up and left christianity, because your so loving Jesus never did anything to help me with my sexual struggle, and as a result, I had sex with a married woman, and it broke up her family.
None of that would've ever happened if Jesus had been faithful to me like I had been faithful to him by allowing me to have a good christian wife. He says that he will not put more on me than I can handle, well because he never would allow my realtionships with other women to work out that is why I had sex with a married woman. God apparently didn't care about her family either. He knew how to stop that from happening, and don't start with me about "Free Will". I expected God to be faithful according to his word, however he was never faithful to me.
It must be nice being one of God's favorites Passerby by providing you with a wife. I wouldn't know since God doesn't seem to give a damn about what I desire.
A superb analogy that's right on the money. When people like Passerby show up at this site to preach, it's analogous to receiving a three-in-the-morning drunken, screaming phone call from some S.O.B. we just spent ten years and $25,000 to divorce.
Between endless variations on Pascal's Wager, and "You were never a True Christian™" and all the other apologistic rot, it comes out sounding very much like You pathetic loser, you're nothing without me! I know you better than you know yourself. Come home right this instant, or I'll track you down and torture you to death.
Oh... Wait...
"What can we do, it's his site after all. He can supress free speech and the truth all he wants."
You mean your "Opinion" of what the truth is.
PASSERBY SAID:
"You're absolute right about that...conversions don't come from man. Recognizing that conversions come from God"
If that's true, then it is time for you to leave this site and let God do his work.
You are finished here.
Get lost.
This is just a question.
This is just a question."
Well, Duh! Why the heck don't you read just a few of the hundreds of pages on this site? Then you wouldn't have to make a fool of yourself by asking dumb questions. This is just an answer. And it's obvious to all but the oblivious.
wondering...what was the MAIN thing that caused you to leave God? was it the actions of you Christian friends?
How long have you been an exchristian?
I was just wondering if you guys (meaning the Ex-Christians or the Christians,for that matter) have any other interests other than arguing with each other. I was not trying to talk down to anyone or make anyone upset or mad. Sorry if I did.
Interesting---you apparently know enough about this site to say that Ex-christians are encouraged, yet, you'd have us believe that you are clueless as to why there are arguments between Christians, and Ex-christians? Lol. Um, put "two and two" together, lad....or wait, I'll just do it for you.
Hypothesis 1: There are "arguments" on this site for the very same reason that there would be arguments if people barged in to an AA meeting and started promoting Budweiser, "King of beers".
Anony...I was just wondering if you guys (meaning the Ex-Christians or the Christians,for that matter) have any other interests other than arguing with each other.
Me thinks you are being disingenuous. News flash: With the advent of the internet, many people are "on-line" several times a day. The internet is a part of many people's daily lives. So, why would you assume that because people take time to blog, that they have no other interests? Silly.
(And nooo, I'm not "mad", or "upset"...it's just an answer)
Elsa asks...what was the MAIN thing that caused you to leave God? was it the actions of [your] Christian friends?
The main thing for me, was actually reading the bible, as opposed to having people tell me what it "reads". The reality that my Christian friend's behavior was sometimes questionable, was not a contributing factor in the least. The fact that people are not perfect, is not evidence that invisible beings exist; it is only evidence that human beings aren't perfect.
Anything else?
Okay, my misunderstanding. I thought that when you said, "I've seen that Ex-Christians are encouraged, but most of what I've read seems to be arguments between Christians and Ex-Christians"[italics added], that it was implicit that you found the latter observation odd, and/or, found it puzzling.
(a point-by-point response later)
Then perhaps you'd better start spamming PlanetDrowningDeities.com instead. I don't see many people here who want to emulate the evil, jealous and thoroughly intolerable god of the Bible.
"We all have the ability to recognize what is good and what is bad."
Yes, and for us Christianity is bad. Go shake the dust off your sandals, or something.
"God is looking for those that want to be like Him..."
Sounds like an "Army Recruiter".
Why would God have to look? Isn't he supposed to be "All Knowing"?
Seems like to me that an "All Knowing God" would already know who he needs. Why would he need to look?