Free Thinker's discourse

sent in by Lynn D. Ellis

I will not submit to the intimidation of those who claim any theories, ideas, or philosophies about the nature of reality are exclusively their own institutionalized domain - whether theological or quasi scientific.

I will not be governed by the mind police who believe themselves to be inherently correct in the positions they hold. I choose to think and reason unencumbered of their supposed "enlightened" views.

I will not be dominated by political correctness so that my own personally held beliefs must first filter through the threshold of sequestered thoughts and ideas held captive by the credentialed power mongers.

I will not be manipulated, handled, or made to fit a social paradigm that continues to reinforce its own self-made image of intrinsic superiority. Many fail to recognize there may never be a philosophy, idea, religious tenet or dogma, scientific theory, or even a societal anomaly that will not be ultimately proven false.

The entire Universe is in a continual state of flux.

Humanity is no exception.


Tucson
AZ
USA
Joined: nine years old
Left: Fifty-one
Was: Baptist, Christian, Pentecostal, Charismatic, Born-Again
Now: None
Converted because: I wanted to go to heaven and not hell when I died
De-converted because: After suffering extreme pychological abuse as the result of "faith in God," I knew there had to be something far better. Following is my statement of present beliefs:
email: lynette190 at msn dot com

13 comments:

freedy said...

"The universe is in continual state of flux." You see this in churchianity,...every year or so a new movement pops it ugly head,.. and "BOOM",..a new denomination!

Another con-man cashes in on it an so on and so on.........What will the church be like in 50 years?
It freakin insane!

Deamond said...

I'm afraid I must correct you on certain things as as you are wrong... just kidding :)

As George Orwell wrote; "Freedom is the freedom to say Two Plus two equals four".

Dano said...

I believe:
If "whatever made us," gave a shit what we think, and is all powerful, and all knowing, and wanted us to all believe in the same thing, "it" would have programed our minds to do just that.

I believe "IT" did!

It made us all want to be "happy," and feel good, and be healthy, and do what we must to achieve this.

One of the instincts that "It" designed into us, to be able to achieve happiness, is the desire for freedom of mind and body, which relegates religion to nothing more than just another virus to be inoculated against.

I believe there is a gland in our brain that produces a growth hormone for the intellect, (or spirit if you will), that functions quite well in the absence of mind viruses like (insert your favorite magical belief)

All of the greatest thinkers down through history have discovered that "Iron bars can enslave the body" but as long as we allow ourselves to reason, and reject the baggage of primeval fears and superstitions that we have dragged along with us "out of the cave," we can still continue to grow.

So when we cast off the mental bonds that we get entangled in, I believe "It" is pleased, because we are becoming "All we can be"

I believe that when we are thinking and creating, God (or whatever you call the force), is clapping and says "See! They are working just like I designed them," and our "intellectual growth gland" releases a little shot of spiritual endorphins.

Dan (Agnostic, rationalist, humanist, and any damn "ist" I want to be "Today")

Anonymous said...

You know, after reading all of your discussion, I have this to say:

First of all, I'm a Christian. I believe that personally trusting in Jesus Christ as your only means of salvation is THE ONLY WAY to heaven.

I didn't say religion, rituals, going to church, crosses around your neck... none of that stuff. I said personally trusting in Jesus Christ as your only means of salvation.

Now, If you're right, and I'm wrong, then cool... we will both die and become worm food. The End.

But, If I'm right and you're wrong... we will still both die, BUT I'll be in heaven and you'll be burning in hell... for eternity.

With that said, I want to ask you personally... How confident are you that your way of viewing the world is The TRUTH?

Check this out... and try to ignore the cheesy music.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4136610474021109864

Look, I don't know you, and you don't know me... but I want you to think about the question I asked above. If you're not 100% confident that you have the truth, then I will encourage you to read the book of John in the Bible.

- Jonathan

Marty Mets said...

Anonymous,

You may not know any of us here, but we all know you. You are no different than any of the other xtians out there. You are nothing but a cookie cutout spewing the same meaningless shit that all xtians seem to say.

Do you REALLY think that we have never heard any of this before? We all left church because we THOUGHT about the logical implications of the xtian doctrine. We left because we LIVED the life you are advocating and realized it is very shallow and leaves much to be desired. I believe that xtianity is actually harmful to mental health and stability over the long haul.

Please do us all a favor and surf this site and try to learn the reasons why we left the church, instead of trying in vain to get us to pedal backwards and return to superstition. We have all thought about this VERY deeply, probally more so than you ever have. Open your mind and try to learn something today.

Dano said...

Anonymous, Jonathan wrote:
"But, If I'm right and you're wrong... we will still both die, BUT I'll be in heaven and you'll be burning in hell... for eternity"
Dan says:
"How do you know which God to believe in? There are plenty to choose from, and if you pick the wrong one, you could be in big trouble (e.g. what if you choose Jesus, but get to heaven only to come face-to-trunk with Ganesh?). This is known as the "Avoiding the wrong Hell problem". If a dozen people of different religions came to you with Pascal's Wager, how could you possibly choose between them? After all, many religions are quite specific that they are the One True Religion, and not any others. Jesus Christ said "I am the way, the truth and the light. None shall come to the Father except through me." [emphasis added] and no doubt most other religions make similar claims. If a Christian considers the Wager as strong support for his faith, surely he must accept that it is equally valid for all other religions when presented to himself"

"If there is no God, you have still lost something. You have wasted a good portion of your life performing the various devotional rituals, attending Churches, praying, reading scripture and discussing your deity with His other followers. Not to mention giving your hard-earned money to the church, wasting your intelligence on theological endeavours and boring the hell out of people who really don't want to hear your Good News"

Dan (who has socks older tha you)

J. C. Samuelson said...

"I believe that personally trusting in Jesus Christ as your only means of salvation is THE ONLY WAY to heaven."

Of course you do. You're Christian. You trust that a man who's been dead 2000 years has anything to offer you. You believe that you will go to heaven, and millions of those who do not believe yet may have lived better lives won't.

"Now, If you're right, and I'm wrong, then cool... we will both die and become worm food. The End.

But, If I'm right and you're wrong... we will still both die, BUT I'll be in heaven and you'll be burning in hell... for eternity."


Pascal's Wager, self-aggrandizement, and the threat of eternal damnation all in one neat little package. Nice job.

"With that said, I want to ask you personally... How confident are you that your way of viewing the world is The TRUTH?"

Anyone who claims to know or have the absolute Truth™ is decieving himself/herself. No one - not even a Christian - can honestly claim with 100% certainty they know the Truth™.

"Look, I don't know you, and you don't know me... but I want you to think about the question I asked above. If you're not 100% confident that you have the truth, then I will encourage you to read the book of John in the Bible."

As Marty points out, we are all very familiar with the crap you're pushing. Your faith has been tested and found wanting.

With regard to John, I offer a counter-proposal. Read Rejection of Pascal's Wager: The Gospel of John.

Herb said...

The way I view Pascal's Wager is as follows: I personally could not be happy going back to Christianity. I don't like following the silly rules and always worrying whether doing this or doing that is immoral. My parents were from two different fundamentalist churches (Seventh Day Adventist and Church of First Born). I was always worried about what was right or wrong. Is it wrong to go to church on Sunday? Is it wrong for women to cut their hair, put on makeup or jewelry? I'm not a woman, but I don't want to look at women as if they're immoral because of the above. The way I see it, it makes more sense to be happy in the life I know exists than to be unhappy in the life I know exists to keep from being unhappy in the afterlife that I don't know exists and that I can't see how it could possibly exist. How can the consiousness continue to exist after your brain is no longer working to generate thoughts and consiousness?

Anonymous said...

Mark 9:1 "And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power."

Jesus was wrong, a set precedent.

THE Anti-Atheist said...

ON THE CONTRARY!

You will accept the views of the scientific establishment.

You will believe what they say about the origins of life and the human mind.

You will submit to their power...or you will be ridiculed, cursed, and marginalized.

And if they want to engage in genetic engineering and eliminate the "inferior" if they want to fill the world with weapons that could wipe out civization you will not be able to do any thing about it.

.:webmaster:. said...

As usual, the anti-one makes huge, unsupported leaps in his logic.

Historically, Christians have proven that they possess no higher moral ground than anyone else on the planet. When Christians had the opportunity to prove the superiority of their worldview, when they ruled Western Civilization, society fell into a cesspool of religious fanaticism filled with stark ignorance, heinous tortures, and horrific disease. Fortunately the medieval fear of science kept modern weaponry out of their reach.

Can you imagine the Holy Crusaders with the A-bomb?

Scary.

Shannon said...

Anti-Atheist

Oppression under any ideology is wrong. Hitler was wrong and Stalin was wrong. Their ideology is irrelevant. It doesn’t matter whether one was a bigger prick than the other because both were pricks.

The origin of classism, racism, and sexism is older than the bible. Darwinism gave the eugenicist a spoke in the wheel of their ideology not validation. The one evolutionary branch of eugenics can be traced back to Henry the eighth when he decided, for his own convenience, to separate England from Rome. He then ransacked coffers the English monasteries and other Catholic holding and pocket the proceeds. Unfortunately, the church bore the burden of taking care of the poor. After King Henry destroyed the churches, he taxed the upper class to allot money for the poor. When the church had accepted the burden of the poor the upper class viewed the suffering of the poor differently. When they became financially responsible for poor, they became quite resentful. The poor were now seen as vagabonds, criminals, and the unfit.

As social animals, we got to come together and figure out what is the best for our given society. There are a lot people out there who run with scissors. When do we, as a society, get to step in and say: “No running with scissors!”? Is it only after someone runs, trips, and hurts his/herself? Or is it only after someone runs, trips, had hurts someone else that we step in?

Does someone who sits in a corner, drooling, rolling his poop into tiny balls, and eating crayons all day long have different rights than someone who runs amok killing and raping? (Ron White, Comedian).

Yes, we need to serious consider the consequence of genetically tinkering but our guideline should not be a 2,000-year-old book full violence written by goat herders and fishermen.

We are better people than the that.

Anonymous said...

"You will accept the views of the scientific establishment."

1 Samuel 2:8 "The pillars of the earth are the LORD's, and he hath set the world upon them."

Isaiah 11:12 "And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth."

Flat earth, sitting on pillars.

"You will believe what they say about the origins of life and the human mind."

Genesis 2:7 "And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul."

Family tree Origin? Dirt.

"You will submit to their power...or you will be ridiculed, cursed, and marginalized."

Deuteronomy 13:6 "If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers;"

Deuteronomy 13:9 "But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people."

"And if they want to engage in genetic engineering and eliminate the "inferior" if they want to fill the world with weapons that could wipe out civization you will not be able to do any thing about it."

Genesis 30:37 "And Jacob took him rods of green poplar, and of the hazel and chesnut tree; and pilled white strakes in them, and made the white appear which was in the rods."

Genesis 30:38 "And he set the rods which he had pilled before the flocks in the gutters in the watering troughs when the flocks came to drink, that they should conceive when they came to drink.

Genesis 30:39 "And the flocks conceived before the rods, and brought forth cattle ringstraked, speckled, and spotted.

Leading edge genetic engineering, creating ringed, speckled and spotted goats by having them stare at different textures while copulating.

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