Shackles and Chains of Christianity

sent in by a Texarkana man

Before I delve into any story of my struggle to remove myself from the shackles of religion, I will introduce myself. I think it only prudent to do so. My name is Mitchell H, and I am a 20 year-old male living in the middle of the Bible-Belt in a relatively small town on the border of Arkansas and Texas. This area is infested with a horribly regressive conservative ethic which lends itself to mindless obedience and rampant intolerance, which is a central theme of my story.

I am a gay man. I have known this in a certain capacity for all of my life. In early years, I knew I preferred the company of males and had an affinity for masculine beauty. When I was a child of about 6 years old and had just begun to attend school, I had a habit of attempting to kiss other boys on the playground. One day, after having kissed a fellow named Seth, the teacher called my parents to the school.

Mom and Dad totally freaked out. I was pulled immediately from public school after my father whipped me violently and sent to a parochial school under the domain of the Church of Christ. They told me that boys who like to kiss boys end up with something called A.I.D.S. which really hurts and eventually kills you and sends you to hell, a place of torment created for sinners by a merciful and just god who apparently lacked the foresight to not create Lucifer despite his supposed omnipotence. Not wanting to suffer torment, I became a christian and vowed to change myself no matter what the cost.

For about six years, (before I hit puberty), I could disengage myself from any interest in males beyond friendship with relative ease: Aided by a christian ethic, I found this easy to do until I was twelve years old. At that time, I had begun not only to enjoy the company of other males..... I had begun to notice that my body responded to them in strange ways. Of course, being a naieve kid in a private school with fundamentalist parents, I had not a clue what was going on. I discovered that on my own. When I learned about the nature of my attraction, I tried to force myself to stop it. I could not. I would only torture myself by becoming convinced that I was going to hell. I tried to date girls, which never worked. I tried electric shock therapy at my mother's insistance, which only succeeded in causing me great agitation. I could not experience the joys of having a significant other.

It went on like this for years, even after I had rejected christianity at age 15. That was due to living in my parent's house and meeting with nothing but disapproval and threats that if I were to ever act on these 'evil impulses', I would be thrown out on the street.

I suppose I should stop here and give a few moments to explain why exactly I left the faith. The obvious reason of the conflict the worldview espoused with my homosexuality aside, I had actually tried to commit myself to christianity by reading the bible on a daily basis. Once I began to study closely, I started noticing that 'god' was nothing like the being christians project it to be. From condoning mass slaughters of Isreal's enemies to torturing Job just to fulfill his own twisted ego, the god of the bible seemed more evil than the supposed Satan! I could also no longer reconcile my convictions and thirst for knowledge with the reactionary worldview of many christians.

In addition to being a self-hating homosexual, I had been a feminist, an environmentalist, opposed to the death penalty, and pro-choice. These views were each opposed by the vast majority of orthodox christians whose activism typically resulted in the propagation of ignorance and repression. So I rejected christianity without telling my parents due to fear. Though this did free me from internal restrictions, there was still the issue of external pressure due to the society I live in and more living with the parents and going to a christian school.

I was still unable to date openly. Private affairs were almost certain to get me kicked out, because Mom and Dad both listened to my phone conversations, disallowed me a cell-phone, checked my mail, snooped through my room, and made me come home by 5 everyday. It was a miserable existance. I had always thought that this must be what prison was like. When I graduated, I decided it was time for me to get a life beyond the dreary home-life and church my parents would drag me to 3 times a week.

I started dating a guy named Ash. It was as if I had actually started living. Though I knew it was dangerous, I would talk to him for hours on the phone, (I snuck these calls), go to his house and get acceptance from his parents, (he was out and had liberal parents I suppose). They were even kind enough to pretend that he was straight for my own sake. I felt, for the first time in my life like I was happy, because I actually had someone to talk to who would listen to me without trying to force christian dogma on me. But unfortunately, one night during one of our conversations, mom happened to pick up the phone. She heard me tell him that I love him.

Next week, I was kicked out and told never to come back. Ash and his parents have taken me in, but mom and dad refuse to talk to me ever again. I try to call them, and they either hang up on me or do not answer. I simply do not understand how something that makes parents turn their backs on their own son can be seen as something GOOD!

As I sit here typing this, I can not help but cry. You have to understand, though mom and dad did make me miserable often, I DID grow up with them, and I miss them. They won't talk to me, though. I don't know what to do about it. I do not know if there is anything I can do. All I know is that I detest religion and can depend only upon myself.

I just wish there was some way I could make mom and dad care about me again.

How old were you when you became a christian? 7
How old were you when you ceased being a christian? 15
What churches or organizations or labels have applied to you? Church of Christ. Christian Atheist, Agnostic, Satanist.
What labels, if any, would you apply to yourself now? Atheist, Satanist
Why did you become a christian? Because one accepts the reality with which they are presented. This on just happened to be based on lies.
Why did you de-convert? I desired to have complete control over my own thoughts and destiny.
email: mitchx at mindless dot com


xrayman said...

My sympathies to you. My dad had an openly gay cousin who came of age in the 1940's. He tried every cure religious or other to rid him of his gayness. He finally realized this is who he was. Despite the fact that my dad's side of the family could be bigited at times, everyone came around and accepted Clint for who he was. Despite the fact that I am a straight man, the love we had for this realative has never alowed me to embrace any religion that would have persecuted him. I am sicked by those who use the Bible to preach intorrerance. I hope your find happiness and peace with your parents.

jimearl said...

As xrayman said, my sympathies to you as well. I have a son your age and he is straight. I find it very hard to believe that a Mom and Dad would forsake a child just because he is gay. Of course, I am atheist now but before when I was christian, I was intolerant of gays. I believed then that they had chosen that lifestyle thanks to the false teachings of the bible and the church. I was never a gay basher or anything like that but I believed gays would go to hell. I know better now. My heart goes out to you. The only hope you have is that your parents have a change of heart and accept you as you are. It can happen with time. My own mother is 82 and christian to the bone. However, she now accepts that her oldest son is an atheist. We just don't talk about the subject anymore. I do have one question. You claimed to be an atheist and satanist. If you don't believe in any gods, how do you believe in satan? They both are imaginary figments of religion. Anyway, best of luck to you in all you do.

Anonymous said...

Hi there, Texarkana man,
My sympathies to you as well. That's a great story about terrible experiences. If you don't mind me saying so, you don't seem to have been well treated by your parents, and certainly not by Christianity.
Very best wishes to you!

BloggerSteve said...

Your parents still care about you. If not they wouldn't have paid money to put you into a harsh parochial school, listened in on your phone calls, insisted that you have expensive treatment which at one time was believed to be effective at changing homosexuals, and are now so desperate that they can respond to your needs only by giving up on you. My hunch is that they feel miserably impotent in their efforts to "help" you, so they try hard not to be reminded of those feelings by looking at you. All these things make me believe that they do still care for you...just not the way that you want and need them to. And, I'll add, the way informed and understanding parents would treat their kid.

In your post you ask a clear, concise question. You are already doing several good things to help you get have sought out and found surrogate parents who are able to give you what you keep on looking for ways to reconnect with your mom and dad. There's the medicine we all have to use at time...tincture of time. This problem is bothering them, and who knows what solutions they will come up with in time. And, as long as you want them to care about you, there are several ways to keep letting them know: go knock at their door and stand there peacefully until they let you in or call the police...write them letters telling them how much you want them to care about you again. Your letter doesn't mention brothers and sisters, aunts and uncles, or grandparents. If you have such family members, you can ask them to help. Sooner or later, they will reach across that wall they have put up between you and them, or you will truly give up on trying to get them to care and you will be free. Good luck.

Anonymous said...

Welcome to another North Texan freed from the despotic rule of
christian fundamentalism!!

myqel said...

Hello Mitchell

I understand exactly how you feel. I too am a gay man raised in religion. My parents wern't nearly as strict as yours though they were very religious. They believe the whole bible story. I came out to my parents in 2003 at the age of 43. Both as a gay man and as an atheist. In the same e-mail.

They were extremely upset that I was an atheist.

I would like to suggest to you to get involved with a local college that has a Gay Straight Alliance.

Check out annual pride marches/festivals in an area near you. They usually have information about local organizations.

Good luck,

Anonymous said...

Hi, I know that this has got to be tough, I'am 29 and gay myself. I knew at the age of 9 that i was going to be gay. I liked woman but I really really loved guys much more different than I liked women. I came out of the closet to my parents at the age of 16. I was not sure what they where going to think, I have had a tough childhood with depression and wanting to comitt suicide many times. Today, I much better still have my ups and downs...Although I was very blessed to have a special family who all except me for who I'm. However I have dated guys who where just like your parents. The hard thing for me is that I have a friend who is very christian, who does not know I'm gay and I'm affraid to tell her. I went to church with her a few times. I felt good except when they said gays are going to hell. However, they did it more in a loving way, that we should except gays into the church and not condem that because thats not the way to change them. But really deep down they might as well say you are going to burn in hell. I remember one time I went to church and they had a speaker saying that he was gay and is now straight. I was so depressed becuase I felt like I can change, but I know deep down I cant I tried and even when I think about it i get depressed. Didi he really change or just in very very stricted denial. Who knows? After that I started not to go to church again, I felt too depressed everytime I go. Then I started reading about history, how religion began, other religions. I have found very very interesting facts. About the fight over religion years years ago, people being killed if you dont believe in there religion, the power of the church. King Constantine, converted to christianity and made christianity the religion, other wise you where killed. No wonder people converted. Religion is so so complicated. I was also reading some of the Quran (Islam bible), making many many claims of miricales in such ways as the bible does, and many more silimar things. Though if you were brought up Islam and read the quran, you would believe the bible is wrong and vice versa. Its all too too much and can drive anyone into isanity and believing anything. So I decided that I love to learn and that they are some many good people in the world as well as bad, but we should love one another no matter what, no matter belief you have and except them. That will bring love and peace to world. I do beleive that there is a God, but I dont beleive in religion, rather spirituality. If you want to talk just email me...I'm a good listener and certainly understand a lot.

Wishing you the best, Brian

SpaceMonk said...

Sorry to hear about the situation with your parents.

At first it would seem that their love for you is as conditional as that of the god they worship.
Yet I think they are just so conditioned to 'love and obey' their god above all other things (there are enough bible verses telling them that family comes second) that they are afraid to show any of their true feelings for you (I'm sure they exist).

It's like they're trying to prove to their god how obedient they are, 'just like Abraham', or something.

I assume they believe in hell, so they don't want to end up there by 'disobeying' their god - so you come second to their fear.

I think the only solution, besides pretending to reconvert yourself (not recommended), is to somehow get them out of christianity.

It's definitely a hard ask (I know my parents won't budge despite all the logic in the world...and it must be harder for you in the bible-belt), but it seems it may be the only thing that will change their attitudes.

All of us here are proof that it can happen, and this is also a great place to get the info to give it a go.

Anonymous said...

Hi Mitchell, Listen my friend, if the christian god will allow siamese twins to be jointed at the head, or side by side, etc. or allow people to be born without limbs, or Down Syndrome or cancer, or blind, etc. it could have easily been that you were born with female chromosomes, being attracted to males, with a male body and male testosterone, the same can be said for females born with male chromosomes with a female body and attracted to females, very plausable.

Now the ignorant people that wrote the ass-wipe bible over 2000 years ago, maybe 50,000 years ago, who knows, had absolutely no medical knowledge and very limited knowledge of anything except what a prophet could dream up, so anything that they did not understand, they said it was from either a god or an anti-god the myth Satan and of course naturally if you did not believe and mimick and pretend that you are one of them, you would be judged as wicked and cast off into hell, just exactly like all christians do even in 2006.

Now until someone comes back with first hand knowledge with the existance of a Hell, I would not be too worried about such nonsense.

Now as far as your family goes, I completely understand what you're going through, although I am not gay, I told my parents that I no longer believed in the bible or any part of it or any religion, and their demeaner towards me has changed, and not for the better, infact they have now turned their love for me and gave it all to jesus, they have decided that it is more important to love a myth and a total lie falsehood in hopes of a promised reward, than to give their own child their much needed love and support.

All in all, the myth jesus has stolen our parents love away from us, this is mostly our objection to christianity, when people put a false religion and a false god and a bible, before their children, this proves to me, that they are totally insane.

So Mitchell stop blaming yourself, it's not you my friend, there's nothing wrong with you! It's Them! They, the religious self-righteous indignation is what the christians want, they want to stand on their Ivory Tower and condemn other people to Hell, and religions give people the license to condemn and judge, although the bible says that god will be the final judge, but they can't wait for god to judge, they take over, thats why so many join a church, nowhere in the bible does it say to elect a preacher and have people join a church, they invented the rules for themselves.

All religions and bibles should be eliminated, Starting Today! TC, Ben

Anonymous said...

Oh Yeah, BTW it's them that are Queer, the perverted christians!

To believe in invisible beings without a shred of proof and they have had thousands of years to provide some proof, it's they, the christians, that are mentally perverted, stay away from them, they carry a mind virus, a mental disease, called religion. TC, Ben

Anonymous said...

I am sorry you had to go through such a rough childhood. You are right in saying that you cannot change that you are gay. So no wonder your parents have failed so badly by being so strict instead of believing that only God can change who you are. I am a christian and even though I got to this website by mistake, I hope you don't mind if I write this. No christian can judge you for what you do and your parents were so wrong about that they contributed to your re-conversion. Each one of us is a terrible sinner and you are no worse than I am or your parents. Maybe you need to try out this new life as a gay. I don't think God has forgotten you or stopped loving you. You just have a different path to him that your parents intended. I'm going to leave this link not to say that it must happen to you, but to say that it could...

Anonymous said...

Do these cult robots have any comprehension skills when reading?

He can not change the fact that he is gay.

He found out that your god doesn't exist.

He does not and should not want to change the fact that he is gay.

Welcome to freedom Texarkana Man

I know when I escaped from xianity...I ran like Forrest Gump...and have nver looked back

Anonymous said...

"Maybe you need to try out this new life as a gay."

"TRY OUT"!!???

"A GAY"!!???

What an idiot!!!!!

Flamingo said...

Just want to clear something up

I am not a satanist but it is nothing to do with believing in the devil - merely the pursuit of your own pleasure by your own rules (essentially become your own god)

I am an athiest but disagree with satanism - however I thought it was important to point out the misinterpretation of the term.

Anonymous said...

I have wondered why they chose to use that term (Satanist)...they had to have known what the common misconception would be.

Or maybe thats why they chose ruffle feathers

any idea's??

Anonymous said...

Well, since Christianity requires that one believes in the existance of Satan, wouldn't that make Satanism a another christian denomination? Puts a whole new spin on this trinity based, monothiesm stuff, don't it?

Anonymous said...

Hi Texarkana,

I'm so sorry that you had such a suffocating life. I'm understanding of being disowned by parents because of the sexual orientation issues. I've gone through that nightmare and know of two acquaintances who have as well. My dad literally chased me out of the house with a rifle. I had to run for my life. I was not allowed any contact with my family for the longest time. Eventually, several years later after my mom's death, we slowly patched things up. Dad and I are on much better terms, though we don't discuss the gay issues in each others' company. He knows who and how I am and isn't trying to change me. It's a bit late and tough for any changing anyway. I'm now in my 50's and today is his 77th birthday.

One of my acquaintances who went through a similar situation to yours and mine never did get to reconcile with his folks. He mourns that reality, but has moved on with his life. He hasn't met Mr. Right yet, but he does date and he does socialize with other gay guys and a couple of lesbians. In that respect, he's no different than most people in the USA. Lot's of single folks straight or GLBT looking for a partner. That's perfectly OK!

You will probably feel stronger than people who have had an easier life. What you've lived through is a gift if you use the experience to your benefit and don't harbor resentments. While I can write about using difficulty to your benefit, I will say that it is really as simple as that. I don't say it is easy, however. Like any grieving process, with or without religion, time does eventually bring equilibrium and focus to life. Be patient and thankful at the same time.

There are people like us in abundance in this world, know that we can be friends. Don't be afraid to smile once in awhile.


Anonymous said...

I am sitting here crying as I type. I'm gay too and I thought I had it tough.
Although I grew up with a fundamentalist background it was not as dogmatic and cruel as yours.
While my mom is a Christian my dad was a partying, alcoholic, hustler...Which probably made life that much easier for me. Were he still alive he probably wouldn't care about me being gay. My mom would probably only be dissappointed but I know she wouldn't cast me out to the wolves.

I really don't know what to say. But I am so happy that you have a surrogate family that does care for you unconditionally. All you can do is continue to do is build from there.

I refuse to pray to a god who is supposed to be just a loving...YET, he sanctions death, torcher, misery, patricide, matricide, and infanticide...Not to mention what happened to you and your family.

The more of the testimonies I read the more I realize that I want nothing to do with Christianity.

Keep your head up. I hope that good things come your way. You have been through hell.

Anonymous said...

Gotta love those wonderfully caring
parents who force their kid out, just because the kid is gay,,

thats what christianity does ,,
it makes parents hate their own kids ,,

Anonymous said...

First of all, I am so sorry you were treated this way. I am so sorry this was the picture of christianity that you were presented with. I am so sorry that you're parents did not love you enough to overlook your faults. With that said I just have a few things. I am a christian, and this story appalls me. Appalls me becuase of how your parents handled the situation. I want you to know that this "god hates fags" stuff is bull. God loves you gay or not. I don't know if anyone has ever told you that anyone who said you were going to go to hell for feelings out of control was wrong. I am not going to argue whether the bible says that homosexuality is a sin or not, but I will say that God still loves you, and that everyone sins and falls short, and it is not our job as humans to judge someone or try to change them. Back to what you said about God torturing Job, first of all, God didn't do it, Satan did, and why God let him, I don't know, but he didn't do it. I used to think God was a sick fuck. I did. I said I hated him, but I've come to realize that he wasn't doing these things to me. See people have free will, and God has tor respect that, but he also desires to know you, and no matter how sinful anyone tells you, you are, he loves you, if you take nothing else away from this, know that everyone who has ever told you that you were evil, or that God didn't love you is wrong, and they don't understand God themseleves. God is not an ogre. Trust me, it took me so long to see that, but he isn't, and he loves you, no matter what. He loves you unconditionally like your parents should have.

Anonymous said...

Just a comment to a lot of people commenting here about no evidence for God, about no logic for christianity. There is a lot of logic. There are many books to give evidence. Try these three by Lee Strobel (former atheist):

The Case for Christ
The Case for a Creator
The Case for Faith

Look up some of the books for evidence againsr evolution:

Darwin on Trial
Icons of Evolution.

Don't say that Christians lack logic or education. we read, we go to school, some of us know the logic to our faith, others don't. To me, it takes more faith to not belive in a higher power than to be religious.

webmdave said...

Muslims go to school, Muslims read. Mormons go to school, Mormons read. Jehovah Witnesses go to school, Jehovah Witnesses read.

I guess that settles then doesn't it. Going to school and reading doesn't make a religion true or the people believing in them correct.


Now, Mr. Anonymous #2394813899482939 (why is it these fundies can almost never figure out how to click the OTHER button? *sigh*) I want to ask you a serious question: have you ever read any books criticizing Christianity? I've read dozens and dozens of apologetic books, and they helped keep me in the faith for awhile, but eventually the fallacies in apologetic logic failed. Why? Well, in part because I started to read non-Christian books. I figured that if my religion was the right religion, then it would hold up under scrutiny.

My guess is that you've read very little or nothing from an opposing viewpoint. Don't limit yourself to the Lee Strobels, there is a whole world of information out there.

Jim Arvo said...

Anonymous, I've read most of those books (not all of them), and at least 100 more like them.

Have you read any of the rebuttals to those books (e.g. by Doherty)? There are dozens on the web.

Can you please list a few books that you've read that are critical of Christianity? (I'll give you a long list if you are interested.)

Can you please list a few books that you're read that describe the scientific basis for the theory of evolution?


Anonymous said...

Fundy intruder said: "There are many books to give evidence. Try these three by... 'blah-blah-blah'.(Former atheist)"

Firstly---EVERYBODY is either an Atheist, or a "former" Atheist, as we were ALL born without a belief in God. For even to say "I don't know"(Agnostic) implies that the belief in God is suggested through revelation, NOT something that is innately known. Much to your dissatisfaction, I'm sure---but Atheism is the "default" position. Got it?

Secondly, "knowledge" that is revealed in a book, can never, and WILL never, be a universal Truth. Stick it in your memeory bank. Thanks.

Disappointed said...

I am a disappointed grandfather. this young man is my grandson. Disappointed? yes, very much so, disappointed not because he is gay, I wopuld prefer that he not be gay, but I can accept that. I am disappointed that he has chosen to post the lies that he has posted. Mitchell has been a disturbed young man for years, but I did not realize the depth of his disturbance. He is actually loiving at home at this very moment. He was in his college dorm room typing his post, a college dorm room provided by his mother and dad. Mitchell is not living with anyone named Ash, and to my knowledge has never had any friend named Ash. Mitchell was not pulled out of school for kissing a boy when he was six or seven years of age. Mitchell and his older brother were placed in private school because the parents wanted a better education for the two boys. The school was operated by a local Baptist church, considered to be the best private school in the area. When Mitchell was 10, he was back in public school for another year, then he was home schooled because he stole the teacher's test questions and was caught with them in his possession and he was kicked out of public school. Mitchell was a brilliant scholar, he made wonderful test scores and graduated from high school after nearly educating himself. His parents did not beat him, they loved him, if anything, his mother could be faulted for being over protective. He is attending the local junior college as money constraints do not allow the family to send him away to a grander college.
The fact that he has challenged God is between him and God, if he chooses to believe as he does, he can answer for those beliefs. I, and his family do not, and have not forced him to believe in God, it was offered and he accepted. He was not dragged to church three days per week, as his father and mother only started attending church services about 4 years ago.
It is truly a sad situation when a young man behaves as Mitchell has, the lies he has written came as a total shock to me and his dad and mother. Shock treatments? I understand that shock treatments as therapy were done away with many years ago, I can testify that Mitchell has never had shock treatment. He jas been under treatment from a doctor for a manic depressive illness and when on his medication seems to behave rather normally. As mentioned before, he is at thome with his parents as I write this, his mother picked him up at the dorm and took him home for the weekend, this is the regular routine for Mitchell, as he always acts like he enjoys the weekends with his parents.
Take what he wrote with a grain of salt, that is about all that it is worth.

webmdave said...

Nice anonymous Grandfather you are. If I were Mitchell, whoever that is, I'd be disappointed in you trying to undermine me.

Disappointed, you should change your name.

My vote is for Angry Codger.

Disappointed said...

"He loves you unconditionally like your parents should have."

Trust me, I have known this boy since he was born. His parents have loved him from day one. He recently called his mother from his dorm room at the college, and told her he needed help, he had gotten involved with some drugs, and attempted to buy some zanex from a local dealer, the dealer talked him into gambling and Mitchell wound up losing several hundred dollars, I do not know the exact amount. He gave the dealer some of his furnishings, microwave, stereo, but not the computer that I had given him for his dorm room, and still owed the dealer about $200. Mitchell asked for the money to pay the dealer. The dope dealer threatened to kick Mitchell's A$$. His mother and dad refused to reward the dope dealer/gambler and I think Mitchell's anger about this incident was the impetus for the post. Instead of supplying the dealer with a reward, I made arrangements with the local police to get his attention.

Mitchell was not kicked out of his home at any time, Mitchell was not taken in by the parents of any friend, He is well treated and loved by his family, ALL his family even if he writes lies about his life experiences with them.

Disappointed said...

Mr. Webmaster, you know not what you say, you display your ignorance when you immediately choose to believe the person that more fits your fantasy lifestyle. I am far from a codger, I have helped in the support of this young man since the day he was born. mitchell has mental problems, and lives a life of fantasy himself. When asked to explain this post of his he stated he was "practicing his creative writing", and "trying to see how many people he could get to reply to his post". I will continue to be disappointed in Mitchell's lying, as I personally know the lies he has chosen to post here. Mitchell has spent many hours in therapy as a child, his parents have supported him and attempted to help him through difficult periods in his life. This post is the first he has ever admitted to anyone that he might be gay, and when asked about it last night, he denied being gay, said he liked to "mess with peoples minds".

Being a webmaster does not give you any particular insight into what is right and true in these random posts by people that you have never met or known. This post of Mitchell's was only found by a daughter researching our family tree as a college project, imagine her, and our, surprise when this came to light, here is a young man that is amiable, living in our midst, eating at our table, seemingly finally has his act together, and then discovering this writing, which is mostly lies, the gay part may or may not be a lie, that is of little concern, the accusations of beatings by his parents, the "kicked out of the house", the living with another family, the "I have repeatedly called and they refuse to talk to me", the "I miss my Dad and Mother", is all bullshit, all complete fabrication, he has had daily contact with his dad and mother the entire time he has lived in the dorm. What he fails to disclose is the doctor's diagnosis of torette's syndrome, the Manic depression, the bi-polar diagnosis and the many hours working with and for him and his recovery. Then you"O high and mighty Webmaster" are going to sit in judgement on the grandfather that has encouraged and aided him through these trying times. The grandfather that has supplied his monetary needs along with his father and mother. You have no business passing judgements on me until you have walked the walk with Mitchell as I have.

webmdave said...

"Being a webmaster does not give you any particular insight into what is right and true in these random posts by people that you have never met or known."

In that case, how would I know that you are telling the truth right now? Had you simply messaged me and explained the situation, perhaps the post would have been removed. But, the general timbre of your posts more resembles one of our usual trolls who occasionally stops by and posts angry rhetoric trying to give people the impression that all the testimonies are fabrications. Your writing style and tone almost exactly matches one troll in particular.

Since you are "far from a codger" I apologize for crack, but frankly it seems to me you're more upset about Mitchell's having smudged your family name on some website than for his apparent mental illness. But you're right, I haven't walked in your shoes. If I had a grown grandson that was out of his mind, I'd probably want the whole world to know about it too. I'd want to make sure the entire planet knew that they couldn't trust a word he said, and to fear him. That's called Grandfatherly love.

I'm sorry, but if what you say about Mitchell is true, then the public character defamation of this troubled person by a "loving Grandfather" does seem a bit over the top. I think I can understand the frustration and anger someone in your shoes might feel, but I would hope that most families would handle this type of thing a little differently. This could have been handled in private. Now the whole world knows.

Regardless, since Mitchell hasn't checked in to confirm or deny your exchange, I'll remove the family name from the post.


SpaceMonk said...

Don't give Mitchell the 'disappointed' treatment.

It won't improve him, it'll just load him with more guilt, then resentment, then rebellion and desire for freedom.

Hey, look at what's happened...

Mitchell, if you are experiencing mental issues, especially in relation to spiritual beliefs, it may be helpful to read this post:

Anyway, good luck.

Disappointed said...

To webmaster,
First off, I am not in the habit of posting on any forums, second, I do not have a clue how to e-mail you. Third, troll???? what the hell is a troll. I am Mitchell's grandfather, why would I take the time to post what I have. Had Mitchell posted with his name, this thing would not have happened. By the time we knew about it, it had been there for several days. I posted primarily to let the bunch of posters, including you know that you were responding to a lie, that all your well meaning rhetoric was in vain, this kid has led you down the primrose path and all of you in your eagerness to help someone, only aided and abetted him in doing the same thing on other forums, and possibly would have encouraged him to post here and expand his lies. you have theories and opinions as to what is the right method to approach this, but you do not live with this situation in your back door or your home. I have done nothing except expose the lies that Mitchell has brought to your forum. I doubt that he will post here again because he knows I will be monitoring this site. We are going to find a psychiatrist for him and try to get him back into treatment.

As for defaming him in a public forum, Mitchell opened that door with the post that defamed his parents, both good people that love and support him, as I write this Mitchell is vowing that he is not gay and he did this as a lark, I suppose one could classify him as a troll?

Disappointed said...

"Had Mitchell posted with his name, this thing would not have happened"

This sentence should have read "Had Mitchell NOT posted with his name...........

webmdave said...

You figured out how to create a Blogger profile, but the links on every page that say "message the webmaster" were beyond the scope of your powers to discover?


So, your crazy-ass grandson posted nasty lies about his family. You found out and decided since he's posted nasty untrue stuff, you'd come online and blast him a good one, exposing all his dirty secrets and making sure the planet is well aware of his failings!

I admit, if what you say is true, this poor kid is really screwed up. But frankly, so are you.

For me, your posts have actually succeeded in the opposite of what you'd intended -- I really feel bad for this kid now, as well as the rest of his immediate family.

Have a nice life, and please refrain from ever posting here again.


FatherTyme said...

Disapointed, you sound just like a poster we have come on here, that call themselves Emanual Goldtein and Hyman Roth, you sound like you are more interested in instagation of this website, more so than the welfare of your grandson, as one saying goes, The fruit does not fall far from the tree. If you were really concerned with your grandson, you would be spending more time with him, than coming on here waisting the webmaster's precious time.

Please get a life yourself!

Thurokmeir said...

This is in response to Webmasters reply to the Christian for not having read anti-Christian material and trying to test his faith:

If Mr.Anonymous #239.... did not read anti-Christian material, why would he be on an anti-Christian web page? much less posting on one. Obviously he has read pleanty anti-Christian views by just reading these peoples opinion.

Reading for knowlege is one thing, reading to show off and to boast about it is another. The later variant generally allows one to overlook certain and very valuable ideas that the material generates.... such as overlooking the fact you just accused a guy of not reading anti-Christian material on an anti-Christian web page....

webmdave said...

Christians are free to believe whatever they want about Christianity, atheisism, Mormonism, or any other ism.

Some Christians, however, seem to have a problem with letting the rest of the world believe whatever they like about Christianity.

Oh, and this is an ex-Christian webiste.

Thurokmeir said...

Granted. The general goal of Christianity is, after all, to spread the word of God to the Gentiles.

But wouldn't you say the same about yourself? ("Letting the rest of the world think...") Of course, you may say that you don't really care what other people think, why should you? But you did start this blog after I correct?

webmdave said...

Yes, and if you've read either my testimony, or the disclaimer page, then you know the reasons for this site's creation.

Jim Arvo said...

Thurokmeir said "If Mr.Anonymous #239.... did not read anti-Christian material, why would he be on an anti-Christian web page? much less posting on one. Obviously he has read pleanty anti-Christian views by just reading these peoples opinion."

Visiting a web page and reading some discussions is not substitute for studying what is known about both sides of an argument. The vast majority of the Christians who visit this site know very little about the views held by non-Christians, often by their own admission. They can almost never name a single book that examines Christianity critically, so your assertion that the Anonymous visitor has "obviously" read plenty of such material would seem to be rather hasty at best.

Thurokmeir said "Reading for knowlege is one thing, reading to show off and to boast about it is another..."

Okay, I'm with you. Are you implying something about one or more specific individuals here? If so, I'd be curious as to who, and on what evidence.

Thurokmeir said...

I could defend myself on this. But of course what would it accomplish?

My pride isn't so I feel complelled to give an explanation or defense. I honestly am not trying to imply anything here, I just don't see how this arguement could amount to anything at all, for either of us. :)

Jim Arvo said...

Thurokmeir said "I could defend myself on this. But of course what would it accomplish?"

If defending your assertions would accomplish nothing, then what did your initial post accomplish?

Thurokmeir: "My pride isn't so I feel complelled to give an explanation or defense."

Arguments are not just about pride; at least they needn't be. They can be a way to learn.

Thurokmeir: "I honestly am not trying to imply anything here, I just don't see how this arguement could amount to anything at all, for either of us. :)"

Okay. Bye bye then.

Anonymous said...

Thurokmeir, or is it Goldie, using the same sit-in strategy to impose a presence like an infantile brat. Does the linguistic pouting, do something for you?

Perhaps, you are just the protege of Goldie, if you don't know who that is, then you need to read a few of the threads on this site - their track record for impotence in the area of intelligence, is overwhelming. However, I would be remiss, if I didn't mention that Goldie's most obtuse comments weren't met with the roiling laughter that could easily push someone into total incontinence. :)

Anonymous said...

I'm going through the same, and it sucks.

SpaceMonk said...

Disappointed said that he found this site by accident, through his niece or whatever, and is unfamiliar with internet technology. So it's fair to ask him whether he has actually read any anti-christian material or not.

It seems disappointed just wants to excuse his chosen christianity from what Mitch has said - and with a name like 'disappointed' it seems that he is trying to use this method to shame his grandson into coming correct - and that is one of the worst methods I can think of(besides physical abuse).
I know from experience.

Anonymous said...

This is the original poster of the story. The story is true, but it did not happen to me. It happened to an online acquaintance of mine, Silas, who was to afraid to post this story of his life himself. I wrote it in a more autobiographical fashion in order to better underscore the damaging potential of organized religion. The name of the town and my name have been changed in order to help me convey this experience.

There are 4 things I must say here, however.

#1 Yes, Dissapointed is my Grandfather.

#2 I am NOT deeply disturbed. Nor have I been officially diagnosed with bi-polar disorder. I may have tourrettes, but that I have largely recovered from. Grandpa, though to some degree very helpful lately, (thank you) has never understood me, and never will. If we want to bring up people's problems, we can all point the finger at one another. I need no Psychiatrist, only people to stop butting in to my online business.

#3 In no way was I intending to 'hurt' my family, as I had made reference to another person's family. I only told dad that I was 'honing my skills' because I was afraid of what he would think of me associating with gay people.

#4 I am a grown man, and I will continue to post here if I feel the need. I need no one's approval to do so, barring the webmaster.

Grandpa, this was in no way meant to be an insult to my family. Believe me or not, I really do not care. All I know is that I meant no harm, and I apologise for any I might have caused.

SpaceMonk said...

Your friend could use an alias if he wants.

My name isn't really SpaceMonk.

It's Timotheus Rex, Supreme Intergalactic SpaceMonk of the Order of Pristine Pan-Universal Purity...

Anyway, your story makes more sense now. :)

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