Nothing ever came of the promises

Sent in by Jannah

Growing up in a Christian home has been an adventure. My parents were pot smoking hippies until the year before I was born. They had friends who were Christians, and they became "born-again" Christians into the Foursquare/ pentecostal/ non-denominational church. They thrived in the environment, and so did I and my 5 sisters.

I went to Sunday school, then taught at Sunday school and went to youth group, then became a youth pastor and attended church where I was the praise and worship leader, the women's ministry leader, a church elder, an itinerant leader leading praise and worship at newly established churches, became involved in the victims of crime ministry, community ministry, and I was in a Christian band that traveled and recorded with famous Christian musicians.

You name it, I did it. My parents were proud.

I wanted to experience God's miracles, love, and awesomeness. But, nothing ever came of the promises. I believed I had faith bigger than a mustard seed, and yet, I got nothing. I remember when I was eight years old that I went up the front of the church to be filled with the Holy Spirit. I got prayed for and the girl next to me started to speaking in tongues. Nothing happened to me. I waited, but nothing. I believed, but nothing. I thought I had failed.. I thought my faith wasn't enough, or I wasn't free of sin. It only made me try harder.

Through school I went through ups and downs in my beliefs, I doubted and thought I was sinful for losing my faith. I would recommit and cry out to God..., but nothing. I never once heard God speak, nor did I experience any miracles. I've heard stories, but never seen. My own ability to hear, and actually being alive, is supposed to have been a miracle from God, but I don't remember. I prayed for people believing in God's miracles. I prayed believing for answers, but I never received them. I prayed for miracles for my friends with cancer, but they died. Just this week my friend is dying (definitely her last week of life), but she is believing for a miracle. I'm not counting on it. I don't even believe in it anymore.

My journey began coming unstuck in 1997 when i met my first girlfriend (I'm a female). We were together in hiding for three years. We told no one. I promised to tell nobody. I didn't tell a soul. I hated myself the entire time. I believed that the Bible said it was wrong, that I couldn't like girls, that I was evil. My self loathing was great. But, even while I was hating myself I still ministered to others and led at my church.

Eventually she hated herself enough to quit our relationship (she's now married to a Christian male) and tell the pastor. They (the pastor and the staff) never confronted me. I did, however eventually confess it to them, though I still didn't mention “her” name. My sister told my parents about it, and they disowned me. The church put me in reparative therapy. My parents started talking to me again when I went into reparative therapy, but I wasn't supposed to be allowed to lead until I had completed the program. I didn't complete it, but very soon I was leading again. At this point I was doubting everything I believed.

I would always come back to the point about not experiencing any biblical promises: nothing of god's love, no voice speaking to me except me speaking to myself in my head. But, my fear of being unfaithful, of being wrong, and hell, overwhelmed me, so I'd always go back.

Then I met another woman. This was my end. For the next five years I struggled with this. I read my Bible faithfully, trying to find answers. I decided that I would not be happy in the relationship even though I was not sure about the scriptures, so I quit my relationship and focused on the church. While I did this, I spoke to my pastors about my Christianity doubts, and they said they had them to, but to just fight our own doubts and keep trusting.

I studied ancient history and religious books and found that I did not agree with the current translations of the Bible, and that the original really said nothing about homosexuality. So, I told my pastors, had a wonderful fight with them, and was given the option of submitting to their leadership and attending their church, or please leave. So, I left. I also hooked back up with my beautiful, amazing girlfriend from before. She is a die-hard pentecostal Christian; she was and is a pastor. I got spat at, received abusive letters -- you name it -- when we got back together. Her family started the Foursquare church in Australia, so I was considered the evil one. I had been in my church for ten years from 16- 26. I was finally free. I look back now at some of their behaviour and it was abusive, manipulative rubbish. You could and can do what you want as long as no one knows about it. They have people in leadership who are gay. Everyone knows about it, but as long as it's not spoken about, it's fine. They have a pastor who stole all the tithes, and stole from his flatmates, and from his ex-wife. He was “stood down” for seven months and now he is back into it as if nothing happened. He lost nothing. He didn't have to pay anyone back! Nothing

At the same time my friend was starting a charismatic service at a gay friendly church. I was happy to get involved. I have been doing that for two years.

Throughout this time my doubts have felt safe to talk about. I have been studying the ancient history, the pagan stories, the history, and just generally the Bible with its mountains of flaws. I have spoken to many learned friends about their views. No one has given me sufficient enough answers. Even my learned friends have had to decide they look at the Bible as allegory and not literal.

I have been reading this site for about six months and I have found like minds: clear minds. logical thoughts...

I still cannot accept atheism. I believe the earth was created by something, not just the BIG BANG THEORY. My current beliefs could be considered pantheistic. I look at nature and am so awed by its magnificence that I cannot fathom a world without a god figure. I am a pantheistic. However, I am very much a freethinker, and I am just open and waiting for some distinct clear answers.

I still attend and do the music at my current church. I don't see this as a contradiction and the leaders at this church have no issue with it. I love the music and the feeling of family. My partner, our kids and I all attend. My partner is still die-hard pentecostal. She is struggling with my current belief system (pantheism) and doesn't know if she will be able to stay with me. She doesn't like it, and finds it really hard to deal with. We will see. But, I feel free, like the weight of the church and Christianity has been lifted. The lies have been taken out of my life.

Thank God I'm free at last...

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45 comments:

Bob said...

Interesting but unfinished story. Ask yourself, if something created the universe, then who created that creator? It's a never ending, and hence illogical question. The obvious answer is that man has always created the gods in his image, not the other way around.

Joe said...

I'd also invite you to continue your inquiry. If an institution produces none of the promised results, but instead fosters hypocrisies and imposes the kind of self-loathing that you have experienced, why continue to endorse it even in it's muted and more congenial form?

If allegories for the human condition are needed to make sense of things, there are far richer sources out there in secular literature. And they come without the baggage.

Athesim Sucks said...

The usual grandiose claims, without verification.

Are we supposed to take it on faith?

.:webmaster:. said...

You don't have to take it at all, Christian.

I respect your right to believe in a flying, un-dead, zombie man/god. This site isn't for you; it's for people that no longer believe in your compassionate, understanding, loving, and hellfire cultish religion.

Have a nice day.

freeman said...

Wow, athesim sucks!

A troll website. Good for you!
"confrontational, and we pull no punches. We’re also funny. But we usually laugh at the atheist’s expense...we hate your philosophical views"

First, learn how to spell.

Bill said...

Thanks for your de-conversion testimony. I am in the process of writing mine. I've also been reading this site for about 6 months. Take care.

boomSLANG said...

The usual grandiose claims, without verification.

Any Christian: Where is the "verification" that backs the "grandiose" claim that Pegasus, Osiris, Poseiden, Mithra, and a bazillion other gods are non-existent? Please verify the above listed gods' non-existence. Thanks.

Are we supposed to take it on faith?

Why?..is "faith" a bad thing?..or good thing?

eel_shepherd said...

atheism_sucks wrote:
"The usual grandiose claims, without verification.
Are we supposed to take it on faith?"

No, you're supposed to take it lengthwise, rolled up into a cylinder...

Jannah wrote:
"...I still cannot accept atheism. I believe the earth was created by something..."

Well, yes, it was created by something alright, because here it is. It just wasn't designed by something (or something else...). Any more than the double-spiral pattern of the seeds on the head of a sunflower was designed, as such. It's just what happens as a consequence of each seed wanting to stay as far away from its neighbouring seeds as possible while still staying on the plant. It's the intersection of number theory with matter/energy/time. It happens by itself. A god is just one more moving part too many.

agnosticated Bill said...

A creator existing outside of a finite time/space universe would not be subjected to our limited knowledge and laws. So, being that we are limited to thinking that a "creator would have to have a creator", the creator's dimension would not be, thus the creator could be "infiinte" for all we know, er...don't know. We are only able to speculate about things before the Space/Time singularity began, beyond that is completely unknown territory. Wouldn't that make a great movie: God and Jesus before Creation began ! What did they do together ?... and how did they come up with the idea of creation and then becoming part of creation. It would have be done like a space odessy symphonic opera or something like that, because we have no idea of reality before the Big Bang happened, thus it would be difficult to represent in a motion picture. good luck in all your future endeavors

muttmutt said...

Im a Pagan at best, I believe that many Gods created many planets. This planet is supressed and I think the people on it need to explore other planets.

Anonymous said...

Jannah - I think it's awesome that you're with your beautiful girlfriend. I wish you good luck in your future together.

When I left chrisianity, I went through several phases of belief, including atheism, paganism, buddism, and pantheism (and more that I studied and moved away from). What I have found, is that, honestly, no one KNOWS anything. Basically, we are all agnostics, whether we admit it or not. The fact is, whatever you believe. . . you're right. So, just find what resonates with you, what makes you feel good and go with it.

What I believe is that we are amazing complex beautiful creations, whether we come from Nature or Gods or Goddesses. It seem that you can see past all the bullshit that petty, controlling humans have continually (throughout history) used to distract us from the truth. I think you're way ahead of the average bear. :)

jannah said...

Atheism sucks... The onus of truth is not on the unbeliever it is on the believer. Thank you for your sad thoughts on the matter, clearly you had no valid argument of you would have given one... sad for you

I will continue to be a freethinker and never stop my study. That is the beauty of not closing my beliefs to anything, i just keep learning and discovering. It is also the beauty of thinking for myself.

Jesus is certainly not the reason for my season!

OceanBoy said...

Hi Jannah, thanks so much for sharing it's nice to hear a story from my part of the world (australia).
keep on searching and i do you hope you find what you are looking for

I too am in the midst of writting my story. (much like bill) and have been on this board for about 1 year. (first post 4 me : )

It's amazing to hear some powerful stories of personal experiences, sad and heart-breaking.
Kinda scary to see this phenomenon of former christians starting to speak the truth and reveal the dark and disturbing heart of christians and the religion.

OceanBoy said...

Ps forgot to say, great title as it sums up my entire experience of prayer.
(it actually doesn't work, any fundies wanna argue, please refer to the gospel of John Ch16: 23-24)

This stuff goes both ways... said...

Of course you demand verification from Christians.

I am simply demanding the same of you.

All these stories follow a common outline, and I have noticed similar wording in some of them.

For all I know they are hatched in the webmasters fevered mind, that mind which is so objective, so rational.

I am not saying they are lies. I simple "lack belief in their claims".

So verification is needed if they are to be even worth reviewing. After all, anyone can claim what a great Christian they were and then they became an atheist.

Of course, when atheists convert, you invariably say their stories are suspect, and they weren't much of an atheist.

All right, all right. I think you are so hypocritical you ARE the thing you hate.

And there is plenty of hate here.

These stories reek of it.

.:webmaster:. said...

I only wish I possessed the imagination to craft as many fictional accounts as you accuse me of. Were it true, I might be the next Stephen King. But, but thanks for the compliment.

And, if you suspect they are all false, then move on down the road. No one is demanding your "faith" with the threat of everlasting torture. If you want to tenaciously campaign for belief in a flying, un-dead, zombie, that's your right. It's also the right of those who no longer believe in mythology to so state their experiences, wouldn't you agree.

Have a nice day.

jannah said...

this stuff goes both ways...

Why do you think you have to demand anything from me. I am not sharing my story for someone else to believe and be converted. My story is not here to prove I am right and you are wrong, as i suspect most people are not. This is not a site to convert people, it is more a site to support and exhort people in their life and spirituality journey.
I am telling it as my "coming out" story. My story, being told, for me. It makes the process of not hating christians for all the crap they have put me and others i know through, a little easier, and it makes it a little easier for me to forgive and love you in spite of you....


Again i say and need not argue about this: the onus of proof is on the believer, not the non- believer. I would love to see someone take christianity to court either a false advertising case, fraud, something like that.... i dont think they would win, their is no evidence.... other than a whole lot of hearsay.... hehehe that even made me laugh at my own little joke.

Im not an atheist sorry. I have anger alot of it. I also hurt, alot. I do hate christianity, but i am allowed, its not a sin for me. I also, feel that my time of anger towards christians and christianity will pass as i let go and forgive. What about you? How long will you hate for? If you continue to hate us, when you pass away, God can not be near you because you will be in sin, alas no heaven for you.

Also, i dont know the webmaster, ive only read this site for my own interest and support. I am in Australia. Id give you my details to prove it, but your a bit of a creep, so I wont be doing that.

I could even give you my old pastors names and you could ask them about me. We are not on speaking terms, but they would tell you all about the "amazing" spirit filled, christian things i did. And, the impact i had. I preached to many, performed in front of over 50000 people on several occasions. And, what a great person i used to be before satan came into my life... Or logic as I would call it. But, it doesnt matter it is all superfluous rubbish. I can do it now, and impact the same amount of people, helping people be better citizens. What i do now and did before make no difference. It is my heart that matters. Every night i used to get on my floor and put praise and worship on. I liked a New Zealand band "parachute band" they have a song "pure and holy" i used to play and praise God and cry out for something of God, and tell God that i would continue in faith. But, nothing ever came.... I would pray almost all day in my head. I would constantly ask God for a sign, or anything that He was there.... again nothing... Now i just go to bed, kiss my partner, tell her I love her and try to go to sleep, hoping against hope that our baby wont wake up, as she so often does, five minutes after i go to bed....


I am sorry you can not find your answers here... try a christian site if that is what you are looking for. I am personally not looking for you and neither is anyone on here. You just solidify my beliefs.

Bloviator said...

First, Jannah, nice story. You are like so many others that were 'filled with the holy spirit of god' and while in that frame of mind did many exciting things. Perhaps the best reason for reading this site if one is thinking of leaving the faith is the proof that other folks once felt the spirit of god, but then changed their minds. Until finding this site, I just assumed I was an idiot, a fool, damned to hell, etc. Now I have peace. Every time I read another story like yours, I feel even better. In my mind, christianity thrived (and thrives) on the feeling of community and sense of purpose. Though my sense of purpose is somewhat truncated (I do feel very important as a father and husband, brother and son), my feeling of community is alive and well in forums such as this. Good luck in your journey, wherever it may lead.

To this stuff goes both ways:

One difference between here and your church. We are not proselytising, you are. If some here are atheist and others pantheist, diest, buddhist, or Bozo the Clownist, neither I nor the other posters care. However, you and your ilk are panicked at the idea of someone holding different beliefs, and even more panicked at the idea that someone might not believe in your god-concept. As the webmaster said, you are certainly free to have your thoughts, and we are free to have ours. I thought you guys were big on the 'free will' argument, right?

boomSLANG said...

Regarding the testimonies of former Christians on this site, a Christian chimes in with:

I am not saying they are lies. I [simply] "lack belief in their claims".

Goody for you. Of course, I fail to see the logic in this ever-so-typical "tit-for-tat" apologetic. The over-riding "claim" here on this site(if there is one), is that people "claim" to no longer believe in Jesus Christ as a savior, son, spook, man, god, man-god---or anything that has a referant in reality.

That said, it really makes very little sense to say that you "lack belief" in someone's non-belief. That would be the equivalent of me telling you that I don't believe... that you don't believe... in leprechauns. Hypothetically, if there were people going around INSISTING that leprachauns existed, you might one day find yourself voicing your non-belief in leprechauns, thus, making you an "Aleprechaunist". If that were the case, you wouldn't NEED to "BACK" your non-belief to the Leprechaunists. 'Follow?

Honestly, you might want to brush up your definitions, too. "Atheism" isn't about knowledge; it's about non-belief, m'kay? Not everyone here became an Atheist once they left the Christian cult, and you might be able to see that if you could step out of your typical "one-size-fits-all" mentality for 20 seconds.

Bye now.

Lorena said...

Hanna,

Thank you for your story. I wish I could jump on a plane to Australia to talk to you for a few hours.

What I like about your story is that you are taking your time to decide on the belief system you will uphold--if any. You are being true to yourself and going at YOUR OWN pace.

That's how I am going about it, too.

De-converting is a traumatic experience (perhaps more so for sensitive people, such as women, gay or not).

For some of us, it is difficult enough to stop going to church and to lose our Christian friends. Going straight from that to declaring that there is no God is too hard--for me anyway.

I am one to take my time. But we are all different. For some, becoming atheists right away feels good--nothing wrong with that.

Anyway, thanks again for sharing your story. I wish you all the happiness you can handle.

Take care!

Lorena said...

This stuff goes both ways wrote:
"For all I know they are hatched in the webmasters fevered mind, that mind which is so objective, so rational."

Lorena responds
Let me see if I follow. You are doubting that what we write here is true, when all the posters are alive and well. Our identity can easily be verified by IP addresses and ISP's.

But you believe that bullshit that was written by primitive men 3,000 or 6,000 years ago is true.

You believe that snakes talk and that bushes burn. You believe that people can walk on water and create food for 5000 out of thin air.

There is no proof that any of the stuff on the Bible is even historically true. But you are doubting that WE the real people who post here actually exist.

Something is really screwed in that head of yours...really, really screwed.

Huey said...

Jannah said...

"this stuff goes both ways...

Why do you think you have to demand anything from me."

Rock on girl! Let the little fundie have it!

eel_shepherd said...

This_Stuff_Goes_Both_Ways wrote:
"...So verification is needed if they are to be even worth reviewing. After all, anyone can claim what a great Christian they were and then they became an atheist..."

This one's actually got an answer. And you can be part of it, goes-both-ways. You can type your name and address, and today's date, and an affirmation that you are a True Christian[TM], use an encryption program such as PGP to encrypt your affirmation and upload it as a post on this thread (remember to use the ASCII-output-only feature). Then, when you de-convert, you will be the only one with the password to decrypt your message.

Then you can be the point man for all future Xtians who claim that the stories are bogus.

Anonymous said...

Have you though about Islam? You could have four wives!!

Jannah said...

four wives huh! hehehe. i think i prefer my one faithful monogamous relationship... each to their own....


its so funny that the christians that come here just prove our point. Why argue? just agree to disagree

Anonymous said...

I just want to quickly respond to all the christians and believers that posted here. First off not having an answer to a mystery or question does not default to a higher being. You may be comfortable accepting a "god of the gaps" reality but many are not. Not having answers to everything is OK also and you should also know that there are questions that may never be answered and that is OK as well.

Astreja said...

This Stuff Goes Both Ways: "Verification is needed if they are to be even worth reviewing."

TSGBW, if you want peer-reviewed reports, subscribe to a publication like the New England Journal of Medicine. Ex-C is not intended to be a definitive source... It is a meeting place for people like me who have had it up to here with Christianity.

Furthermore, our claims are nothing special (and, accordingly, do not require a pile of supporting evidence). People change beliefs and quit activities all the time.

The reason we demand proof of Christianity's claims is that those claims are extraordinary. People rising from the dead, talking snakes, talking asses, talking burning bushes, angels, devils, Original Sin, walking on water, incredibly powerful invisible beings Out There Somewhere. These things do not appear to exist in the real world. If you want to be believed, you need to produce something a bit more substantial than an old book.

"And there is plenty of hate here... These stories reek of it.

Proudly guilty as charged. I despise Christianity and would be delighted beyond words to see it unceremoniously dumped into the dustbin of history.

I respect and support the actions of sincere believers who try to walk the walk and make the world a better place. However, I have no patience or compassion whatsoever for fundamentalists, theocrats, scriptural literalists, "believe or burn" types, and those truly scary folks who long for the Rapture and the end of the world.

johndunkley said...

Hi,

I would just like to say, that Jesus is the one you should be complaining to. This site is all very well, but if you have a problem with God then don't go running away from him, Talk to Him. I am certain that God is real, and that He wants to bless us and not curse or condem us. Why do you think Jesus went to the cross? was that to condem or was to it to save?
The Gospel is not called 'good news' for nothing.
Throw yourself on God's mency and see where it takes you. read the story of the prodical son.

boomSLANG said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
boomSLANG said...

John Dunkley says: I would just like to say, that Jesus is the one you should be complaining to.

...::sigh::

Hello, John? Um, why on earth would you suggest that we should "complain" to something/someone that we don't even believe exists? It's silly.....similar to if you lost your car keys, and I said, "Hey, why don't you 'complain' to the gremlin who took them?"

Do you see the absurdity?

John continues: This site is all very well, but if you have a problem with God then don't go running away from him, Talk to Him.

Here, again---we are NOT "running" from any "God"; we are leaving behind the concept of "God", because that is the only place that gods exist, that is, in "concept"..i.e..in the mind; in your mind.

BTW, I'd like to know what makes you assume that we, people who believed Chrisianity was true for signifigant portions of our lives, didn't already try "talking to God"? Such an idea seems highly unoriginal, considering. It would be like you recommending a spare tire for someone who gets a flat. "Gee thanks, Einstein".

The difference, John, is that natural solutions to problems exist; "supernatural" solutions do NOT exist.

John: I am certain that God is real, and that He wants to bless us and not curse or condem us.

No, you are mistaken, "God" is not "real". However, to humor your fanciful superstitious hypothesis---if an "ALL-powerful" being did not "want" to do something?...simple--it WOULDN'T. Surely, you are not going to tell me that there's a higher authority than "God", are you? Right, NO. So then, "God" can do, and NOT DO, as "God" chooses. Period. So for you to suggest that "God" doesn't want to "curse or condem" us, but yet, does it anyway, is utterly non-sensical. Try again.

Why do you think Jesus went to the cross? was that to condem or was to it to save?

There's one small problem with your question. Here it is: I DON'T "think" any such thing happened. And even if you could provide credible evidence that such an event took place, then you have the task of proving that "zombies" exist; that dead people become "undead". Further still, even if you could prove such a nature-defying feat, then you can tell me where the "sacrifice" is, if the individual who was "sacrificed" is NOT dead. That's right, Johnny, if "Jesus IS ALIVE", then there is nothing to be atoned for, thus, I owe nothing to anyone. You're welcomed to have another go at trying to make it make logical sense, though.

The Gospel is not called 'good news' for nothing.
Throw yourself on God's mency and see where it takes you. read the story of the prodical son.


Yes, the people who wrote the bible nicknamed it the "gospel", and in turn, they refer to it as the "good news".

That's absolutely brilliant---similar to Speilberg reviewing his own movie. "I LOVED it!!" Duh?

Wes said...

"but if you have a problem with God then don't go running away from him"

Sometimes I think I am listening to a broken record...

Why do christians post assuming we have something against god? ...that we're 'angry' with him or something? Don't they understand that we can't be angry at something we are not convinced even exists? Can't the christian comprehend that? Really! What is so hard about it? WE DO NOT BELIEVE THE CHRISTIAN GOD EXISTS. Simple! And, as such, WE CANNOT BE ANGRY AT or VENGEFUL TOWARDS SOMETHING WE THINK ISN'T THERE! Yeesh! Third-grade comprehension abilities, folks. THINK before you POST. -Wes.

freethinker05 said...

Mr.JohnDunkley, I don't think that I need to complain to a god for the following reasons.1) There is no evidence that he/she/it exists. 2) I "WILL NOT" believe in any "BOOKgod". 3) Because, if a god truly exist, then my only complaint would be is, that I should not have to complain at all, because, he/she/it "FORCED" me to be here in the first place, plus, he/she/it knew how I would turn out before I was even created. Peace to you, Roger

Elle said...

Jannah,

I really identify with so much of what you wrote. My background was also pentecostal/non-denom and I also struggled with the fact of why was I the only one who never seemed able to experience God's presence or touch or whatever, when my friends were shaking and laughing and totally caught up in it? I 'felt' nothing ... and told myself that faith doesn't depend on feelings.

I'm now in the exploring stage - reading, researching, talking to people - and probably also at the stage of fearing you described: fear of being wrong, fear of dying and discovering God is real and I turned away from Him.... these are all real issues for me right now, so folks, please don't yell at me (or Jannah or any of us on this blog) who are still in the process of finding out for ourselves....

Thanks for sharing your story, Jannah!

freethinker05 said...

Dear Elle, I don't think that this site is intented to yell, or make fun of anyone who is searching for the truth. Personally, when I first dicovered this site I was an emotional wreck, until I kept reading, researhing, and listening to what atheist/agnostics had to say. I can turthfully tell you that iI am alot more at peace with myself now, than I was several months ago. I'm sure that some believers will only tell me that "god has hardened my heart", or god has sent me "strong delusions", so that I might believe in a lie, well, so be it, because I feel a hellofa lot better now. For instance, I do not fear death anymore, fearing that I will wake to an everlasting punishment in hell. Sure, I still think about whats on the otherside of life, but I don't worry about it anymore. I'm like most everyone else here, in that I wish there could be a place of eternal peace and happinness, but personally, I believe when the brain dies, that is it. Anyway, may your mind find peace Elle, and Jannah, very good testimonial by the way. Peace, Roger

Poltergoost said...

I remember all the promises I read out of the bible, and all the big talk along with testimonies of how this amazing personal daddy (god) changed these people, and to get no results in the end.

Don't know if any body on here has ever watched "Star Trek" a whole lot, however God reminds me of the character known as "Q" off of "Star Trek The Next Generation" and the character known as "Trelane" in the Classic Star Trek Episode from the 60's called, "The Squire of Gothos".

Both characters were higher powered individuals who enjoyed playing mind games, and bullying humans with their manipulative power like ways, threatening to destroy or torture them if they did not obey.

That is exactly how I see God today.

Poltergoost said...

God is a member of "The Q Continuum".

The next time a movie comes out about Jesus aka God, they should have the actor "John DeLancie" play the role of Jesus since Jesus was also God.

Anonymous said...

you kept saying you never witnessed any miracles or nothing ever happened to you...i am a christian, and guess what, i suffer from depression, i have really bad eczema on my fingers (so bad that i can barley close my fists in the winter) i'm losing my hearing and i/m balding...im only 27. i have witnessed/recieved a miracle from God and i suspect you have too. His free gift of salvation thru the shed blood of our Savior Christ Jesus. We live in a fallen world so of course there will be death and decay; as long as we cling to Jesus, we can rest assured that this is only temporary. You say that you dont believe anymore, that does not make you an ex christian. once you recieve your salvation God will not take it back. I suggest you pray and ask the Holy Spirit to lead you back and to become senstive to how He speaks to you. Not everyone gets thunder and lightning. when the LORD speaks to me, it is often thru His word and strong emotional feelings. i've never witnessed anyone speak in tongues or anyone raised from the dead but as long as my unrighteous self is able to be reconciled with the Almighty thru Jesus' Blood, that is the only miracle i am interested in.
i will pray for you
mechadrum@gmail.com

Astreja said...

To Mechadrum: This mythical "salvation" is not free. Worship is extorted via guilt-trips and threats of eternal punishment.

I reject the "gift" because it is nothing of the sort.

But I am sorry to hear about your medical problems. Perhaps you should make inquiries of some of the other gods out there, because Yahweh/Jesus really seems to have dropped the ball in your case. (I'd do it myself, but my jurisdiction is equinoxes, random equipment failures, and chocolate.)

stronger now said...

Hey mechadrum, how about asking your god if he could help heal my penis. You see when I was small someone cut the foreskin off of it and now I would like it back. So could you pray that god would regrow my foreskin? I kinda feel incomplete without it.

Poltergoost said...

ANONYMOUS WROTE:

"you kept saying you never witnessed any miracles or nothing ever happened to you...i am a christian, and guess what, i suffer from depression, i have really bad eczema on my fingers (so bad that i can barley close my fists in the winter) i'm losing my hearing and i/m balding...im only 27. i have witnessed/recieved a miracle from God and i suspect you have too. His free gift of salvation thru the shed blood of our Savior Christ Jesus."

Jeez.....that sounds similar to what I would've said back when I was a christian.

Nice excuses for why Jesus doesn't heal you're body. Yep, I was just like you at one time. I too needed a crutch just so I wouldn't feel so bad about why life sucked so bad for me at the time.

I too have depression, but instead of holding onto a false religious crutch named Jesus, I have found more strength in setting goals in my life here on earth, and attaining them. As a christian I went nowhere in life, and had the same attitude that you had. I feel sorry for you really, because I was just like you at one time.

ANONYMOUS WROTE:
"We live in a fallen world so of course there will be death and decay; as long as we cling to Jesus, we can rest assured that this is only temporary."

Ah yes! The typical "WE LIVE IN A FALLEN WORLD" excuse. Now that is a classic. Yep, we live in a fallen world, because this perfect loving god who is so fair and just believes that all of mankind (both past, present, and future) should have to suffer for what two people did in the Garden of Eden. If that is god's way of being fair and loving towards all mankind, and his way of justice, then I guess we should all be in prison right now for Charles Manson, Adolf Hitler, Osama Bin Ladden, and Saddamn Hussein's crimes even though we didnt' committ them.

Plus our wonderful perfect loving god who knows what is best for you and I decided that he wanted to see us fall on our faces by placing a temptation that he created known as "Satan" in the Garden of Eden, when this all knowing god knew what the outcome would be which would include pain and suffering in the world. Thanks a lot god for bringing unfair and unjust punishment on those who did not exist back during that time period. He may be all powerful, but he sure doesn't have much of a brain. Yep, god sure is looking out for our best interests isn't he?

ANONYMOUS WROTE:
"You say that you dont believe anymore, that does not make you an ex christian. once you recieve your salvation God will not take it back."

He can have it back. I don't want it. BTW, just in case you didn't already know, some christians teach that there is no such thing as "ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED". Even you christians can't agree with each other when it comes to doctrine. Even the atheists are more united than you christians are. Most of you christians are too busy arguing over doctrine meaning, and back stabbing each other.

ANONYMOUS WROTE:
"I suggest you pray and ask the Holy Spirit to lead you back and to become senstive to how He speaks to you."

Why would I want to listen to your suggestion? You seem to have very low standards regarding your life on earth, along with low expectations. Why should anyone listen to someone like you who seems to have nothing going for himself?

Sorry, I've got better things to do with my time than to talk to an imaginary friend. I live in the "REAL WORLD" and I have real friends who I would rather talk to.

Your reasoning is weak, and it is carries no weight. To tell you the truth you sound like a very depressed person who has given up on having a nice productive life here on earth.

I suggest you consider seeing a "SECULAR" Pyschyatrist and therapist who can help you with your depression. I got nowhere with christian counseling. I am finding more success and having more victories in my life over depression since I started seeing a "SECULAR" therapist. She doesn't believe in the christian faith either btw. She believes in doing what is practical and what works for me, not what some stupid god or faith says.

So if you want to continue to allow your depression and other ailments to rob you of a nice fulfilling life on earth, go see a christian therapist who will fill your head with false hopes and lies. Once again I can see how christianity would appeal to someone like you who suffers from depression and many other ailments. It's a crutch to keep you from feeling so bad about your life and why this unfair god seems to allow others who could give a shit less about him or christianity to function and have more success in their own personal lives.

Ever notice that most people who do not care about christiantiy get further ahead in their lives? They believe in their own abilities to succeed in life, not some fake myth.

ANONYMOUS WROTE:
"when the LORD speaks to me, it is often thru His word and strong emotional feelings."

Can you produce any audio recordings of the LORD speaking to you? Do you have any evidence of him literally speaking to you? I sure would like to hear it.

Chances are it is your own voice inside your head that is speaking to you which is telling you that it is God when it is actually your own thoughts. That's how the bible was written. It was man's thoughts of what and who God is. They thought it was actually god who was speaking to them when it was actually their own thoughts speaking to them instead.

As for the strong emotional feelings it's possible that it is either your depression or it's your medication messing with your head.

ANONYMOUS WROTE:
"i've never witnessed anyone speak in tongues or anyone raised from the dead."

Nor have I. However I've heard tales from other christians who claim they have seen it, but they never have any documented evidence of it.

ANONYMOUS WROTE:
"but as long as my unrighteous self is able to be reconciled with the Almighty thru Jesus' Blood, that is the only miracle i am interested in."

You sure do have low expectations and standards when it comes to life don't you?

Sorry to hear that you have given up on your life, and that you have no expectations or goals left. I'm glad that I didn't allow my depression to rob me of this rich fulfilling life.

It appears to me that you are just sitting around waiting to die. What a damn shame.

ANONYMOUS WROTE:
"I will pray for you"

That's nice. I hope that one day you will find the motivation to find the right kind of treatment and therapy for your depression, and other ailments just so you can live a productive life here on earth instead of giving up and waiting to die.

It's a shame to see people like you who hold on to a crutch because they can't seem to make it in the real world.

Reading your statement makes me even more glad that I left the faith.

Thank you for reminding me of why I left the faith Anonymous. At least something good came out of your post.

In closing thanks for affirming why christianity sucks so bad, and why it is a complete waste of time.

Poltergoost said...

I know we have a lot of people who post as "ANONYMOUS" on here, so I thought I would clarify that my last above post was meant for mechadrum.

Shame to see that poor guy give up on life and waste it away chasing a religious crutch like that.

Damn shame indeed.

mechadrum said...

you dont even know me and you can just simply assume i have given up on life because i choose to recognize Christ as Creator, King and Savior? for all you know i could be living large in La Quinta or a bum in an internet cafe. i have no problem with where i am at in my life. i have a great job, a beautiful wife, and an outstanding baby girl....with the exception of losing the 30 pounds i gained when i left the USMC, i couldnt ask for more....maybe a baby boy so my kid wouldnt grow up a tomboy....but im not sure i could handle another....anyway; obviously you are very unhappy with your life and you feel the need to pull as many people down with you as you can. "proclaiming yourself to be wise and 'free', you have become a fool." Rom 1:21-22 we will see what happens in the hereafter. i guess you believe in luck..so good luck to you.

Astreja said...

Mechadrone: "you dont even know me and you can just simply assume i have given up on life because i choose to recognize Christ as Creator, King and Savior?"

Well, you were the one who opened the window on your own life by puking out your medical problems for everyone to see. It's apparent to me that all your religion is doing is giving you false hope and various flimsy rationalizations for the fact that a nonexistent god is *incapable* of helping you.

"i couldnt ask for more....maybe a baby boy so my kid wouldnt grow up a tomboy..."

There is nothing wrong with being a tomboy. It has enriched my life immeasurably (and saved me tens of thousands of dollars on home renovations, too!) Lose the prejudice, or risk causing irreparable psychological harm to your daughter should she favour that route.

And, FYI, the gender of the siblings does not tend to alter the sexual orientation of a child. This particular technodyke has a baby brother.

"proclaiming yourself to be wise and 'free', you have become a fool." Rom 1:21-22 we will see what happens in the hereafter. i guess you believe in luck..so good luck to you.

(falls off chair giggling) And a hearty Matthew 5:22 to you too, sir. I'll save you a seat by the barbecue pit. BYOB.

Poltergoost (defender of all non-believers) said...

MECHADRUM SAID:

"you are very unhappy with your life and you feel the need to pull as many people down with you as you can. "proclaiming yourself to be wise and 'free', you have become a fool." Rom 1:21-22 we will see what happens in the hereafter. i guess you believe in luck..so good luck to you."

LMAO!!!!! at your scripture reference. I see that you are trying to use a typical "Biblical Scare Tactic" on me by quoting scripture out of your fairy tale book. Nice try.

This is exactly the kind of crap that I am talking about that caused me, and several others to leave the christian faith. Having someone cram scripture down our throats on a constant basis.

So did God tell you this about me? Once again do you have a tape recording or some documented evidence to prove your "Judgmental" Opinion of me"? When did you get a degree in Psychology?

You don't even know me either, so you are not qualified to judge me like you just did, which is typical of asshole christians like yourself.

I believe in reality and doing what works in real life. No such thing as luck. You are the one who is stupid and weak minded enough to believe in a being who you have never seen before. You are the one who believes in luck.

Once again, you just don't get it do you? Scripture is nothing more than a manipulation scare tactic that all you christians like to try to use, well it's not going to work my friend. Your bible is a "False Book of Lies" so you can shove it straight up your narrow minded ass.

It is you, who comes on here and preaches and shoves his judgmental opinions down our throats. You are a typical christian biggot my dear sir.

I was unhappy with my life as a christian, however that has all started changing ever since I left the christian faith. Don't worry, my life is getting better all the time, so fuck you and your God.

The only thing I am unhappy about is how narrow minded people like you deceieve people by giving them false hopes, and enslaving their minds with manipulation tactics. It was done to me by a huge amount of christians, along with the christian Church, and I have seen how people who don't agree with your point of view persecute others, including the GLBT Community.

In closing tell your cult leader, "Jesus Koresh" hi for me, and if you ever get short of toilet paper, the pages out of your Bible will work just as well.

Poltergoost (Defender of all Non-believers) said...

MACHADUMB SAID:

"proclaiming yourself to be wise and 'free', you have become a fool." Rom 1:21-22"

POLTERGOOST REMINDS MACHADUMB THAT:

"That's how the bible was written. It was man's thoughts of what and who God is. They thought it was actually god who was speaking to them when it was actually their own thoughts speaking to them instead."

Apparently Machadumb still does not understand that quoting scripture is not effective on non-believers, but he still continously tries anyway. Like many christians he believes that the "bible" is a literal "double edged sword" that has a certain magic about it that will make people submit to God. Even though his attempts to prove his point about his God being real are futile, he still tries anyway.

He is like a cat trying to bury his own turd on a frozen pond.

As for you beautiful wife, and baby girl, it sounds to me like your life is not as bad as you made it out to be in your first post. You were practically making it sound like your life was miserable. You deceived everyone on here with your so called health problems.

I've never been married, however I wonder how you would feel if your wife ever left you, and took your child and she never came back, and after you prayed and prayed for God to restore your marriage, he failed to do so. I wonder if you would still love your God then?

I know someone that happened to. He prayed and prayed for God to restore his marriage, and he stood on scripture and all of God's promises only to finally see his wife move in with another man, and end up in a divorce. He left the faith too just so you know.

God screwed him over. But, yet God has no favorites, and he is no respecter of persons, so why is it that this guy who I knew was not allowed to have a successful marriage while others like you are? Shouldn't God grant this guy a successful marriage, after all God hates divorce, but he does nothing to restore the marriage. Something is wrong with that picture.

I know you have a very short memory Machadumb, so I will remind you that if anybody on this website is unhappy with their life, it is because your God failed to deliver his promises. He played favorites instead.

MACHADUMB SAID:

<<< 30 pounds i gained when i left the USMC >>>

Nice talking to you Gomer Pyle.

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