A pastor no more
sent in by former pastor
left the church and Christianity two years ago.
I had been a Christian since the age of eight when, out of fear of hell, I prayed to Jesus to forgive me.
My family had only intermittent contact with the church over the next 12 years, but at the age of 20 I had what I believed was a real conversion experience (more so than my fearful prayer as a child) and began an 18 year ’adventure’ in Christianity and the church.
I believed I was called to minister, so much of this time was taken up with bible college, one-to-one studies and tutoring, mentor ships and so on, and then with my own teaching, serving on church boards, serving as a deacon, and culminating with becoming a pastor.
All through this time, I saw the best and worst that exists in the church. I received great help and support when I needed them; I knew many deeply loving people who moved me with their depth of character; I saw people pulled out of bad situations (addictions, abusive relationships, etc.). I also witnesses raging hypocrisy; I saw the worst in class system and racial bigotry; I knew people for whom Christianity was a convenient blind for hatred, fear and ignorance; I saw intellect denigrated and received many deep, personal hurts.
Also during this period, my knowledge of the bible, history, language, and comparative religions was growing, and with that, the small, nagging doubts about the absolute truth of the bible and Christianity (which, to be honest, were always there) also grew. I had never whole heartedly bought into thing like creationism, the concept of an eternal hell, the ’evil’ of homosexuality and so forth, and this tendency was increasing. I even got into some slight trouble when I was teaching a class on Genesis for suggesting such things as possible allegorical or mythical interpretations of the creation accounts; that Ph.D.s in geology and biology might have some idea what they’re talking about; or that there is similarity between Genesis accounts and other culture’s stories. (Ironically, my Genesis class doubled in attendance from start to finish).
Although there were some parts of the bible that troubled and disturbed me, such as wholesale mass murders, the generally capricious and bloodthirsty OT god, or the wife stealing, murdering bastard David being put forward as a spiritual ’hero’, I simply filed them away in the ’for further study someday’ part of my brain and ignored them.
But it all came to a head for me in 2003. I had been studying a variety of neopagan, heathen, and atheist books and websites for some classes that I was teaching, and although many of them were superficial and largely useless, there were several that were articulate, intelligently written, and perceptive; especially in their criticism of the bible and Christianity.
I opened up that mental ’for further study someday’ file and began to take a long, difficult, honest look at what was there. The process took some time, but by its end I knew that I no longer believed in the bible or Christianity.
Christmas was approaching, and I knew I could not preach through the season things that I no longer believed. I resigned from my church, and returned my credentials to the denomination. It gave rise to much consternation with both my church and denomination officials that I was not just leaving one church for another (which happens all the time), but that I was leaving the ministry entirely.
That was two years ago. It’s been a painful process and adjustment. I’ve lost my professional position; the financial security it took me years to achieve; many relationships and the support system that had seen me through many hardships. My marriage is on troubled ground because my wife remains a committed Christian, and I don’t know what the outcome of this will be.
I’m past the rage and bitter tears now, thought they flare up from time to time. I’m still working through the mourning process, and I’m still picking up the pieces left from my old life.
I have lost a great deal, but I hold on to what I’ve found. I have a strong sense of peace from being able to face the truth. I have a freedom that I haven’t known before in my life. I even have a modicum of self-respect and, in spite of the bumps ahead, I think the future looks bright.
Illinois
USA
Joined: 8
Left: 38
Was: Christian pastor
Now: None. I'm just me.
Converted: Originally out of fear
De-converted: I learned too much
left the church and Christianity two years ago.
I had been a Christian since the age of eight when, out of fear of hell, I prayed to Jesus to forgive me.
My family had only intermittent contact with the church over the next 12 years, but at the age of 20 I had what I believed was a real conversion experience (more so than my fearful prayer as a child) and began an 18 year ’adventure’ in Christianity and the church.
I believed I was called to minister, so much of this time was taken up with bible college, one-to-one studies and tutoring, mentor ships and so on, and then with my own teaching, serving on church boards, serving as a deacon, and culminating with becoming a pastor.
All through this time, I saw the best and worst that exists in the church. I received great help and support when I needed them; I knew many deeply loving people who moved me with their depth of character; I saw people pulled out of bad situations (addictions, abusive relationships, etc.). I also witnesses raging hypocrisy; I saw the worst in class system and racial bigotry; I knew people for whom Christianity was a convenient blind for hatred, fear and ignorance; I saw intellect denigrated and received many deep, personal hurts.
Also during this period, my knowledge of the bible, history, language, and comparative religions was growing, and with that, the small, nagging doubts about the absolute truth of the bible and Christianity (which, to be honest, were always there) also grew. I had never whole heartedly bought into thing like creationism, the concept of an eternal hell, the ’evil’ of homosexuality and so forth, and this tendency was increasing. I even got into some slight trouble when I was teaching a class on Genesis for suggesting such things as possible allegorical or mythical interpretations of the creation accounts; that Ph.D.s in geology and biology might have some idea what they’re talking about; or that there is similarity between Genesis accounts and other culture’s stories. (Ironically, my Genesis class doubled in attendance from start to finish).
Although there were some parts of the bible that troubled and disturbed me, such as wholesale mass murders, the generally capricious and bloodthirsty OT god, or the wife stealing, murdering bastard David being put forward as a spiritual ’hero’, I simply filed them away in the ’for further study someday’ part of my brain and ignored them.
But it all came to a head for me in 2003. I had been studying a variety of neopagan, heathen, and atheist books and websites for some classes that I was teaching, and although many of them were superficial and largely useless, there were several that were articulate, intelligently written, and perceptive; especially in their criticism of the bible and Christianity.
I opened up that mental ’for further study someday’ file and began to take a long, difficult, honest look at what was there. The process took some time, but by its end I knew that I no longer believed in the bible or Christianity.
Christmas was approaching, and I knew I could not preach through the season things that I no longer believed. I resigned from my church, and returned my credentials to the denomination. It gave rise to much consternation with both my church and denomination officials that I was not just leaving one church for another (which happens all the time), but that I was leaving the ministry entirely.
That was two years ago. It’s been a painful process and adjustment. I’ve lost my professional position; the financial security it took me years to achieve; many relationships and the support system that had seen me through many hardships. My marriage is on troubled ground because my wife remains a committed Christian, and I don’t know what the outcome of this will be.
I’m past the rage and bitter tears now, thought they flare up from time to time. I’m still working through the mourning process, and I’m still picking up the pieces left from my old life.
I have lost a great deal, but I hold on to what I’ve found. I have a strong sense of peace from being able to face the truth. I have a freedom that I haven’t known before in my life. I even have a modicum of self-respect and, in spite of the bumps ahead, I think the future looks bright.
Illinois
USA
Joined: 8
Left: 38
Was: Christian pastor
Now: None. I'm just me.
Converted: Originally out of fear
De-converted: I learned too much
Comments
It's a tough thing to leave, isn't it?
I wrote a book about it that might help, and Dan Barker is editing another one with testimonies of former ministers in it.
email me at apacaptainjohn@juno.com
Your post was very sincere, and I hope that people who read it will not fall into the negative and hostile banter I have seen here before coming from the "true" believers.
You are very brave. Good luck in all you do.
Onanite
Does she have to agree to stay married...that is what Barker seemed to imply and what you all have been implying.
I hope I am wrong...if I am, just say so...that you would stick with your wives even if they were committed Christians
My wife and I are both atheists so I don't have the same experience exactly, but I have a brother and sister whom I love dearly. My brother was a committed Christian who was deep into faith. He knew I was an atheist and both of us kept a strong relationship despite our huge differences in what we knew to be true.
He had several life changing events that turned his path around. One was that his pastor "came out" of the atheist closet privately to him. The other was that a very close friend told him that he was a secular humanist. After much study and an open mind, he realized that the things he felt in his heart no longer made sense to him as a Christian and he finally realized that his beliefs were much closer to being a secular humanist.
It is possible that his wife will turn around if his love and caring for her is strong enough. Christianity is a hateful religion filled with eternal torture, intolerance, and doublespeak. Maybe she will change or discard her beliefs in the name of love. We can only hope...
Welcome aboard, you are in good company here.
Very good post, many of us have come to the same conclusions that you have and the freedom we now have is wonderful.
I have a testimony here also it is ex-pentecostal preacher. Might be of interest to you.
Welcome again, the regular posters here like Jim Lee and many others are very good.
Best always, enjoy your freedom.
ex-pentecostal preacher
Fred
I certainly admire you and each of the ex ministers/pastors/priests who have posted here for making that decision.
As to the issue of "mixed" marriages, I think it depends on each individual couple's circumstance and how much love and understanding they have for each other as to whether they can stay together. I hope that your wife can accept you for your decision, and you can make things work, although it sounds as if it is not going good right now. I am sure it's hard, and both of you are having to go through a struggle with the changes in your lives at this point.
Whatever the outcome, I wish you luck, and know you will be much happier with your life from now on no matter what.
i know God exists so much that if he doesnt exist then neither do i
if not, well much love and happy new year
i hope the best for your marriage
Jamie
I'm sorry you've decided to leave God because He IS real. Just because you never really believed in Him doesn't verify His supposed non-existence. Since you were able to leave Him, you were never saved in the first place, and I beg you to reconsider your present stance. You're obviously hungry for validation, but being validated by people who don't understand God or the Bible isn't the way to go. I've been involved in several conversations in ExChristians, and I can promise you, NONE of them have a good grasp of God and the Bible - and being "validated" by these people is like running for cover in a lion's den. And Satan is laughing his butt off.....
I whole-heartedly invite you to e-mail me for any further discussion in this matter: carmen@therefinersfire.org
May God bless you and give you the desire to return to Him.
No one has left god, and no one has ever known a god, except you Carmen, of course.
You're just repeating something that you've already heard from someone else.
Carmen go back to the mental ward where you come from and start cutting out little paper dolls, you'll be safe there, I promise.
Carmen, you're a perfect expose of a delusional fruitcake nutjob, how did you get out of your cell? Did Jesus let you out....hmmmmmm?
Go away Carmen and live with your little fairytale imaginative mental heroes, who come to your rescue at your very command.
http://exchristian.net/letters/2005/11/you-wont-be-able-to-say-gosh-i-didnt.html
Carmen: "I don’t intend to spend my life in this chatroom"
Carmen: "...I don't intend to argue anymore in this viper pit."
It appears Carmen can't stay away from the "viper pit." lol
May Jealous bless you, Carmen.
"IF I COULD TALK TO THE ANIMALS
Dr. Doolittle : The Musical"
I somehow pictured you talking to a donkey, a snake, and a few other animals, it must be a sign...
You know, Carmen thinks we're snakes, with the insinuation of calling this place the viper pit...and we replied to her comments...soooo, I think we're just reinforcing her imagination that snakes can write too...along with verbal communication skills :-)
I hope some of you got the jest of what I was trying to convey, if you enjoyed it, stay tuned there will be more insane rantings of a christian fundy lunatic from their spiritual perspective.
One thing I hate about Christians is the belief that they are 'Saved' That really gets to me. Who on this earth can say that they have a right to go to heaven. No one!! And as for preaching to other about the joys of christ, wise up!!! I am perfectly happy in my life without ever having the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Man I love this site. Finally people that think along the same lines as myself.
I dont think that your wife will leave you, why? Cause I don't believe that she married you cause you were a Christian,but because of who you are.
In terms of religion, I respect religion and faith, it gives comfort to sooo many people, but when these people judge me for my lifestyle or anyones elses for that matter, thats when I get pissed off. Good Luck. Carmen btw really pissed me off. (If only I could type faster!!!!
peace,..freedy
Oh yeah I'm not sure what I am, I lived my life for God for almost two decades, but now I'm so confused... just working out who I am.
But Liam, I don't think your girlfriend should have to be defended for being a Christian, surely everyone is entitled to their own beliefs without criticism and mockery? Isn't that why people get so pissed off with some Christians?
Anyways If you could answer my questions It would clear some confusion in my mind.
Thanks.
People who believe in god do so by their own accord, fair enough, I cannot make people believe what I want them to. Is the fact that I know that I cannot force my beliefs on others what makes me detest christians for forcing their beliefs? Possibly.
I am sick of being called a satanist, devil worshiper simply cause I dont believe in the bible and believe it was compiled to constrict weak mined people into laws and boundries that could only be overcome by giving youe local priest, pastor etc a percentage of you wage.
May I also just add that I think that the most Judgmental people on the planet are those who are religious. Yes I do know that we all are judgemental to a certain extent, but religious fanatics take it to the extreame.
Ans: Nope! I suggest you look up the word "Religion"
So, would it bother you if we were ex-muslims? I guess not but it sure feels like bamboo shoots under some fundies' finger nails, knowing that we poo poo on their religion.
NO, you were NOT "saved"! Anyone who is TRULY saved could NEVER turn their back on Yeshua/Jesus! Never....
You simply epitomize what the Bible tells us about "even the elect" being deceived in the end times and falling away from the Truth. Since you're a "former minister", I guess the shoe fits, Freedy!
Too bad, so sad....
NO, you were NOT "saved"! Anyone who is TRULY saved could NEVER turn their back on Yeshua/Jesus! Never....
You're right--Freedy wasn't saved. But neither are you, Carmen. There never was a reason to be saved. The source for your self-esteem issues is a mythical story written by a caveman in the desert. You base your assumption that we're all damned on a story you read in a book. It's like saying we're all going to be eaten by dragons because you've read Beowulf.
You come here to convince us that a relatively uninteresting god who sprang from the minds of a tribe in the Middle East a couple thousand years ago somehow has had all of humanity pegged as falling short of his standards all along, regardless of the facts that, prior to the advent of Christianity, hardly anybody had heard of him, because other cultures were taken up with their own deities; the stories associated with the Hebrew god contradicted the equally incredible histories for existing myths and superstitions, such as the Greek; and nearly the entire fable of Jesus can be laid over the top of extant savior-god stories like onion paper over a charcoal drawing. I could go on, as many on this site well know. The entirety of your religion, Carmen, is explained organically. It's all right there if you're even remotely interested in using your mind.
Even YOU are explainable using natural terms. There is no need to appeal to a god to see what is going on. I look at you and say, there's another delusional wacko trying emphatically and desperately to reinforce her own beliefs by bringing the rest of us down to her level--the level of putting faith in demons and magic. Lest you forget, a good lot of us, oddly enough, used to be just like you, some worse than others. So saying that we were "never truly saved," or whatnot, when most of us have outgrown the need for it, is just throwing feathers into the wind. A new tactic is truly in order.
You simply epitomize what the Bible tells us about "even the elect" being deceived in the end times and falling away from the Truth. Since you're a "former minister", I guess the shoe fits, Freedy!
Too bad, so sad...
Case in point.
Apparently, you missed Judas Iscariot in the bible.
I guess Adam and Eve were never truly saved either, although they were supposed to be made perfect, and in god's image. Of course, they didn't have to be "saved", they were gods themselves, and didn't need salvation.
Peter denied Jesus three times, I guess one of the favored apostles just wasn't "saved". However, he was good enough to become the cornerstone for the Roman Church.
Can someone please explain this to me I want to invite Jesus into my heart, but I do not know which way to turn. Also I may need surgery to incise my Heart to let ole JC in.
Can you help me C-A-R-M-E-N!!!!!!? I never was a CHRISTIAN, but I know that you definitely are. CARMEN come back and do God's holy will, cast out these demons and unclean spirits. I need your prayers Carmen. Please pray for me, as I beg for your humble forgiveness, Carmen you Angel of light.
Adam and Eve were gods? Honey, if you think that, you truly were NEVER Christian, and you have no clue. You guys post gobble-de-gook. Even the "former ministers" haven't got a clue. I challenged one of them to respond to my questions, and he couldn't do it. He responded all around the questions, but never answered them....
No, the only reason I'm in here every once in awhile is because I want to give you all something to think about.
Of course, you never THINK, you just respond by spewing forth nonsensical remarks and doing what you do best: spewing vitriol all over ANYBODY who doesn't agree with you. You people never even bother to think WHY you come across as evil and childish; you just jump on the bandwagon of kicking others. And then, when some of us don't take it and respond in kind, you get REALLY angry and start foaming at the mouth and making fun of people. Very childish, but typical "human, carnal" responses.
You all are catering to Satan, and don't even realize it. You think you're "being real". Well, there's a spiritual battle going on behind the scenes that you aren't even aware of, yet you're playing right into it.
That includes YOU, "former pastors".
Well, I'm off to synagogue to worship MY God. You all can stay right here and foam away at the mouth.....
Carmen do you really think a God gives a rats ass if you go to worship it? Why do you go to a building built by men? Because you are mimicking something you've seen others do also.
Carmen we really do Love you here, but we just want you to get a grip on your thinking, we are not against you or your silly make believe God.
Carmen you're mimicking and roll playing charactors from the Bible, that all you are doing, who are you trying to fool, us? Your make believe God? No you're fooling yourself, Carmen. You're a very stubborn person Carmen, very stubborn, you want it your way, but it does not work, the truth cannot be represented by a lie such as the bible.
Adam and Eve were made, hypothetically in your gods' image, but slightly lower on the god chain. They were hypothetically on the same level as Jesus per christian account.
Adam and Eve, were by tradition supposed to be tried, via "free will", and if they were successful in staying "faithful" to the commandment of their god, then they could become the highest order god(s), in absolute perfection and communion with god.
At the very beginning of Adam and Eve's existence, however, they didn't need to be "saved", they were demi-gods like Jesus... one step away from being gods on the highest level. And, Adam and Eve weren't christians :-) Perhaps, someone should make bumper stickers for that little remark.
I digress, bottom line Carmen, is that Adam and Eve, just like Jesus were trying to gain some 'higher' rung on the god scale. Jesus was also tried on many occasions, and broke many exodus laws which were commandments, just as valid as the original commandment to Adam and Eve, not to eat the apple. Hence, the reason for all the bickering on Jesus' level of godhood. Depending on where someone slaps Jesus on the god scale, typically determines whether they are trinitarian, non-trinitarian, Jewish, Roman Catholic, Ebionite, Muslim, and the varying sects of Christianity.
In France, its not uncommon to symbolically see this symbolism. Where Jesus is at the bottom of a hill, represented by a small cross, and as one walks up the hill, they find a statue of Mary, and on the top of the hill, they find the large cross representing God.
The Mormon religion, resides on this very topic. They believe that there are varying levels of godhood a person can reach, and it is in line with the original tradition of christianity. The religion goes as far as to say, that there is the ultimate center of heaven, called the celestial kingdom where God resides, and then there are rings that surround the celestian kingdom which represent lower godstates, second being terrestrial kingdom, and lastly telestial. People, on this earth have the "opportunity" to elevate their godly status based on works and faith. Oh, and there is no hell, there is only outer-darkness, representing a place where the presence of the kingdoms of heaven can not be experienced.
So, in essence, even You Carmen, put Adam and Eve, Jesus, etc., on a god scale in your own mind. You may not think you have, but... you have by your belief system. You're an MJ, and of course, you have to reconcile the differences between Orthodox Jews and the Roman Church. The Jews, didn't put Jesus on a god scale, actually he was no better than Adam or Eve, as he broke commandment after commandment of the laws of Exodus. The Roman Church, elevates his status, via Tertullian by creating the trinity, and making Jesus the equal in purpose with God and the Holy Ghost, but separate in entity - hence trinitarianism.
So, closes the chapter on Adam and Eve, as they were, considered "gods" on the god scale, just below the Almighty Creator "God". And, they were theoretically given the opportunity to gain Absolute Godhood, equal to the Creator God by passing the test of free will - by religious tradition.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Original_sin
To this day, this is the driving force for many religions. The test of "faith", and how a person lives their life with free will, and makes the "right" choices in an effort to raise their "god state". Some religions create "hell", and preach that people are born in the pit of sin, "required" to earn their way out, and elevate themselves to a point of... oh, lets say "sainthood"... or Pope... and thus higher on the god scale.
Other rules, like... ages of accountability, etc., then come into play, all in an effort to create guidelines where people have a "goal" in life, and thus "purpose". The problem is that the people giving the guidelines aren't higher order gods, themselves, and thus, have no authority to give "absolute", meaning "perfect", guidance. Is is salvation by grace, faith, works, etc. or by some other means or combinations. The formula on where entities fall on the god scale, and the rules for elevation to the highest order "god".
Oh, and don't say that there is only one Heaven with God, and that isn't a scale. Because it is, its a scale with two options, a dichotomous scale; a) heaven with everyone equal, and b) hell with everyone equal. I won't even gravitate to how this seems ridiculous, because that means if charles manson becomes "saved" by some religions magic formula for salvation, then he would be standing next to god, and even you Carmen.
I've attended many different churches and religions in my life, and worked under a well known Jew, whom I shall not name. They all have a "thought", on our "purpose" in life. And, based on that "purpose", we are given rules and guidance on how to fulfill our purpose. For instance, Carmen, your shabbat today, supports the guidlines required to meet the "ultimate" purpose in your life, as given to you by people in your life. Purpose, in theory, is both transitive and commutitive, but I will not get into that deep discussion. Just know, you received your purpose in life, from some other person, or from elements in your environment. Eventually, some people are able to extract their thoughts away from attachment to their environment and are capable of deriving a deeper understanding of life.
Carmen do you really think a God gives a rats ass if you go to worship it? Why do you go to a building built by men? Because you are mimicking something you've seen others do also.
Carmen we really do Love you here, but we just want you to get a grip on your thinking, we are not against you or your silly make believe God.
Carmen you're mimicking and roll playing characters from the Bible, that all you are doing, who are you trying to fool, us? Your make believe God? No you're fooling yourself, Carmen. You're a very stubborn person Carmen, very stubborn, you want it your way, but it does not work, the truth cannot be represented by a lie such as the bible.
Isn't it odd how not a single one of us here has a clue about anything except for you? I wonder how that happened. I mean, I'd hate to add up all the years we've spent collectively in colleges, graduate schools, seminaries, professional schools, etc., considering that all we have to show for it is this "gobble-de-gook", as you so eloquently put it. It's really sad isn't it?
You know, another way in which you put us all to shame is by your penetrating questions and lucid answers. You always understand exactly what it is that we're asking (even better than we do ourselves!), and never ever attack a straw man; and then you provide answers that are absolutely irrefutable, as evidenced by the fact that our refutations are beneath you and not even deserving of a response. I guess that comes from knowing Hebrew. And here I sit, knowing barely a word of Hebrew, completely clueless--despite a fairly considerable effort too, I might add.
You point out that we never stop to think about why we appear so evil and childish. Well, I'm willing to take a brave step and ponder that for a moment, as uncomfortable as it might be. My guess is that we seem evil because we think god is make-believe; we even say really nasty and childish things like "the god of Abraham is a myth". I'll admit that sometimes I completely lose control and ask to see some evidence of god. Can you imagine? Pure evil, I know. Just look what happens when you let Satan take control. While I'm confessing all this to you, I might as well tell you that I've gone so far as to compare the son of god with Mithra and Krishna. I know, I know... they are nothing more than a false gods, so the comparison fails right there. But it's just so darn tempting. That must be Satan's influence again.
Now, I know you're a busy lady (or maybe I should say "scholar") and don't have time to answer a bunch of ignorant questions from evil and childish heathens like us... but I can't help wishing that you could enlighten us just a little more. Maybe by answering more than one question in ten, if that wouldn't be too much of an imposition. After all, we are trying to learn (despite outward appearances to the contrary), and you clearly have all the answers at your fingertips. And... you know Hebrew.
I'm still wondering how you came to possess the absolute truth (as you obviously do). I'll admit that it's kind of frustrating for someone like me. I mean, I've wasted most of my life reading, studying, pondering, and searching, and yet I'm nowhere near having all the answers. Not even in the ballpark. In fact, the more I learn and search, the more things I realize I don't know. How did you manage to overcome that? How did you manage to unearth the one true religion amid all the false ones, not to mention all the incorrect interpretations of the ONE true one? I stand in awe.
Humbly, from the viper pit.
Please I beg for an answer, I do not want to got to hell, just because I do not know how to worship a god.
CARMEN !!!!!!! Please help Me!!!!!
How do I/we worship your God????
What is the secret on how to worship a god? Help me.....Help me...Please Please...Help me !!!!
My soul is yearning and awaiting in the balance for an answer, please I'm dying soon and I need the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help me somebody....CARMEN !!!!!!
posted: 1/07/2006 10:52 AM EST
Carmen, what a hypocrite! You don't obey biblegod, why should we? What the hell are you doing running electricity on the Sabbath? Why are you typing online? That is working....but I guess it's okay to sin as long as you're a believer.
I hope you might still be monitoring this post. I am not and have never been a pastor, but I may as well have been. I've understood Christian theology much better than almost anyone I know, and can easily give examples of how to live the Christian life (not what I think the Christian life is, but what the NT authors actually taught and supposedly lived themselves).
After about a year's absence from going to church and Bible reading, I recently opened up my Bible not to read through the Book of John. I was shocked at how much nonsense I read that day. I had absolutely no desire to believe that Christianity was false, but after reading that and many things since then that opened my eyes, I can't rationalize my beliefs through the Bible. It just doesn't work. Either the God "of the Bible" exists, and had allowed a false, misleading, and/or misinterpreted Bible to come into my hands, or the God "of the Bible" doesn't exist. I can't believe in something just because a bunch of dead men said it was so, and a bunch of people living today say that all the leg-work of proving their claims has already been done and I should just have faith. I can't do it. There is just too much nonsense in the Bible to believe it in its entirety.
If I could I would start living my life without Christianity. I have a big problem though. My wife believes in it, and there is absolutely no way she will deny any part of her beliefs. Seriously, no way. Period. She would sooner kill herself than question her beliefs. I kind of understand that thinking myself because I went through a couple months of planning my own suicide and almost going through it. With her, however, it's much more difficult. I cannot reason with her and show her that things may be different than what she has always believed. It will literally crush her not to believe it all.
I told my wife a few weeks into my loss of faith that I was questioning things, and we had a few really tough weeks after that. We both became (and both still are) very depressed. The only reason that we're maintaining now is that I've found some Christian teachings that I respect and will always hold as truth, because they are "good" teachings. I've also found a church that is led by a "good" pastoral staff that truly cares about their congregation. I really respect them, even though I can't believe everything they teach. This respect for the teachings and the church appears to my wife to be a regained faith in Christianity as a whole. She doesn't understand and probably never will understand how I truly see things. I'd like to think that I could be wrong, but I know her too well to risk trying to bring her out of her beliefs. She will lose all hope in life.
I hope to find a way to make at least one of us happy, either my wife or myself. I think I know what I need to do in order for us both to live healthy lives, but I cannot see how it's going to work out. I think we need to get divorced, and break off all communication with each other. Then she can go on with her life and I can go on with mine. I know this will be extremely tough on both of us though.
Can you tell me how your relationship with your wife has been affected since writing this post? Also, do you have any advice for me?
It's a long time since former pastor posted, and I no longer have his email address.
Would you allow me to post your testimony and plea to the front page? You might get more response that way.
If so, contact me by clicking here.
Your message struck a chord in me. I am now flirting with Liberal Theology / Catholicism / Theism (without Christianity) / Agnosticism / Atheism etc.
Like yourself, I managed to teach myself a lot about Theology that I may even rifle the knowledge of my own pastor.
I also have doubts about the literal reading of the first 2 chapters of Genesis (7-day Creationism) and the condemnation of homosexuality.
I feel for you because many ex-Christians will miss some of the "goodies" with the Christians -- there are those who are genuinely loving, caring and sincerely that you have a friendship with -- and that is what I am struggling right now.
I do not want to make the decision to quit Christianity because I will hurt a lot of Christian friends I truly love -- and to make things worst, some judgemental Fundamentalist will throw mud at me which will hurt my friends even more.
For you, I hope your wife can gradually come to terms with that, at least being a Christian but accept you, just like you will accept her as she is now.
Best
Virginia
My wife believes in it, and there is absolutely no way she will deny any part of her beliefs. Seriously, no way. Period. She would sooner kill herself than question her beliefs........I cannot reason with her and show her that things may be different than what she has always believed. It will literally crush her not to believe it all..........She doesn't understand and probably never will understand how I truly see things. I'd like to think that I could be wrong, but I know her too well to risk trying to bring her out of her beliefs. She will lose all hope in life
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Chris,
Your words ring very true in my own situation as well.
Seems we have a few of us here who have xtian spouses to contend with.
Unlike yourself however, I don't see for myself a possible middle-ground between my Atheism and her belief in a xtian creator god being. How do you compromise on a thing like a god. It's not like one can believe in just 'half a god'.
The biggest question you raise is the one that decides how much effort (if any) that we put into reasoning with our xtian spouses about their belief in a mythical being.
All the reasoning I've used so far doesn't seem to have shaken her faith, even when I win a debate on some religious issue. The xtian mind has an interesting way of just locking away any facts that might upset the balance of their god-equation. Such problematic facts seem to be easily filtered into a 'Do-Not-Open-Ever Box'.
This sure reminds me of some parents I knew while growing up, who, when told their child did some bad thing, would stubbornly deny that their own flesh&blood could ever do anything wrong etc.. These parents just couldn't accept that their child would ever do anything outside the parents viewpoint of them.
Xtians have a viewpoint of their god and the filters come on when anything comes along that would raise a question with that view, thus self-maintaining the view they WISH to be true.
God for many xtians is not only a nice belief, but more the comfort crutch they turn to in order to cope with general life. Take away that comfort crutch, and many will surely fall on their faces. While you and I know there is no god up there helping these xtians get through their problems of life, xtians don't realize this fact and their emotions will look for any weak evidence to make them feel their god is helping them cope.
It doesn't matter that 9 out of 10 prayers never get a positive answer. If only one answer seems to have come from god, that is enough to reassure them of his existence and assistance in life.
While I agree with you that it's best to leave your wife with her god-crutch so she can believe she has some supernatural help in her life to count upon, I sure wouldn't agree on my end to joining some xtian church as a means for compromise.
Not only would I feel quite hypocritical in doing so, but just being in ANY church these days makes me feel like I left this planet and am surrounded by beings of well---another kind.
It would be the same type of feeling one might have, if one went to some conference that was composed of all people who held a belief that aliens from outer space were taking them on joy-rides through the galaxy, each night while they were sleeping.
No matter how much you would try to fit in with such a crowd, you never could.
Some xtians here might also say (as they have) that your wife is "unequally yoked" now.
To such xtians, you and I are the devil to our xtian spouses.
Funny though how these same xtians won't have a problem with the xtian husband, when he is abusing his 'doubting' wife.
Oh if xtians could only see themselves from outside their tiny god bubbles !!!
ATF