Skeptical monkey

Sent in by Ted Goas

I hope my testimonial is short and sweet. I was raised by two educated, traditional parents in the New York metro area of the U.S. I was introduced to, schooled in, and eventually confirmed Lutheran. At no point was I ever enthusiastic about my religion or going to church. But like many others I took religious teachings at face value, went through the motions and believed what I read in the Bible.

But then I went to graduate school, which turned out to be my turning point. There I learned to question things, filter out bad information, ask for proof, and basically ask “Says who?”

During this time I watched a documentary and heard this quote from Michael Shermer: “Smart people come to revisit things they learned for not-smart reasons,” or something to that effect. That was the straw that broke the camel’s back.

It made me realize that children can’t control how they’re raised. But we can re-evaluate what we were conditioned to think. After doing so, my story is probably similar to many other testimonials on this site. I converted to militant agnostic / atheist. My fiancĂ© and I constantly research the subject of skepticism (in which the topic of religion naturally falls) and publish our findings on skepticalmonkey.com.

-Ted Goas
http://www.skepticalmonkey.com

43 comments:

billybee said...

Ted,
I just took a gallop through your web site....
Wow, great job. I can't wait till I have more time to spend there. Right now I gotta run down to my back fourty and feed the unicorns! ha ha.

Good luck to you. THANKS for what your doing to bring our species up a notch!

Rich said...

I just discovered a Facebook group this morning, Jr. Skeptic Magazine. Cool. What the world needs is more skeptical children.

You do know of course that books are being written for children to explain how the scientific method can be used to prove ID using the most devious misleading prose ever written by man. I refer you to Lee Strobel's The Case for a Creator (age 8 to 12)

Perhaps a thorough debunking of this trash would make a good project for your web site? I wish I had time, but alas I am fomenting worldwide revolution over the issue of hereditary religion.

You need to have a Facebook presence. This site is ideal for revolutionaries.

Rich Collins

Andrew said...

Ted, you provide another example of an "ex" who was never real in the first place.

By your own admission, you simply "went through the motions".

And thats fine, but I see you suggestion of some intellectual superiority to be quite amusing.

AtheistToothFairy said...

Andrew said...
And thats fine, but I see you suggestion of some intellectual superiority to be quite amusing
---
Andrew, take a hike !!

It's sure not very hard to have "intellectual superiority" over your misguided brain, 'buddy'

ATF (Who thinks this troll should test out god's "Afterlife Policy", first-hand)

godsfavoritecolor said...

Ted,
You are reaping the benefits of a liberal education. It liberates the mind, and that is why religious fundamentalists hate it. Keep up your good work spreading knowledge.
Andrew,
You're in Afganistan???? Why don't you go out and preach to the Muslims?

boomSLANG said...

Andrew: Ted, you provide another example of an "ex" who was never real in the first place.

This again?

Andrew, you dipshit.....the argument that a former believer(an "ex") was never a "True Believer" fails, and it will continue to fail, each and every time a "Believer" attempts to use it. A belief, is a belief; people can change their minds about beliefs. 'Goodness gracious, yes, when we were kids, many of us formerly believed in silly, illogical things.....for instance, things like "Santa", the "Easter Bunny"....and even that our stuffed animals could talk to us. Uh huh..guilty. However, as adults, we simply changed our minds about those silly things. Now, certainly, you don't have the authority to tell other adults that they didn't really believe those childhood things, do you? Answer: Of course you don't.

Now wise up, and go get an argument for your biblegod before you come back.

Bill said...

Great site Ted. It's always refreshing to see some new material. I loved your little piece on Pascal's Wager. Welcome to the land of reality. Andrew you can use me as an example if you must. I was NEVER a true Christian and I owe it to my liberal upbringing. Imagine this concept: My parents allowed me to think for myself. Oh how I used to feel so sorry for my Catholic friends who had to attended those fucking classes while the rest of us played.

Andrew why the fuck are you such a Masochist? Sometimes I just think Andrew is really an atheist with a very twisted sense of humor.

xrayman

Stushie said...

I'm intrigued. If Christianity is so unimportant, why are you a militant atheist?

That puts you in the same camp as fierce evangelicals who are intolerant.

AtheistToothFairy said...

Stushie said...
I'm intrigued. If Christianity is so unimportant, why are you a militant atheist?
---
Hey Stushie,

Please tell me that you aren't THIS ignorant on the matter?

First off, who said "Christianity is so unimportant"?
Your belief system is not only one from ignorance, but can be dangerous to the minds of society, especially our young.

I sure see your religion in the same 'unimportant' light as things that go bump-in-the-night.
Those bump-in-the-night things aren't important because they do not exist, but the belief that some hold, that then assumes they do exist, is what becomes important to us.

Such ridiculous unproven beliefs can affect human behavior, in the same way as a child might refuse to go to bed because of the invisible 'monster' that lives under their bed.
The monster will NEVER eat them, but they'll stay awake for hours, in fear of such, and land up tired as heck the next morning from having done so.


Think about these things then Stushie:

If enough people start to believe in alien abductions, how might that affect society?
If enough people believe we are receiving messages from beyond the grave and act upon those messages in real life, how might that affect society?
If many folks made their daily plans around their horoscope readings of the day, how might that affect society as a whole?

Any belief that exists outside of reality, can indeed become dangerous to any society, if it spreads too far and wide.

Christianty has already proven how dangerous it can be from it's sorry past.
So while the dogma of your religion is unimportant to us personally, it's the actions of you xtians in trying to change society to your deluded and unproven way of thinking, that becomes the great danger to ALL OF US.

Now tell me that you really didn't already understand all this.


ATF (Who thinks Stushie is just being a typical troll here)

xrayman said...

Hey Stushie let me give you a quick example of why the bullshit of Christianity is so important to us. In my local small town newspaper today there is a plea for donations for a little blind girl. Why? Because due to the bullshit of Christianity stopping medical science in it's tracks, by thwarting stem cell research, she must fly to China for a stem cell transplant that may restore her sight. GOOD ENOUGH REASON?

AtheistToothFairy said...

Xrayman,
Excellent example you gave, of religion holding back progress!!

I also wonder what stushie has to say on the matter of kids dying from lack of medical care, because their parents decided that prayer was the best medicine for them.
I wonder if stushie even took notice of those news reports here on our site....Doubtful !!

I think it's pitiful how Islam and Christianity, both seem to have a huge desire to put us back in the dark ages, or at least keep science from progressing forward.

Stushie, do you go to a doctor when you get sick, or just have your god followers lay their hands on you and pray for hours for god to heal you?

To do nothing stushie, about this god delusion problem, would surely be singing the death warrant for future human intelligence, and I for one, won't stand around waiting for execution day.


ATF (Who thinks religion should be required, to be able to prove out the product it's trying to sell everyone)

Thecla said...

Atheisttoothfairy said "To do nothing stushie, about this god delusion problem, would surely be singing the death warrant for future human intelligence, and I for one, won't stand around waiting for execution day."

First of all it is "signing" not "singing"...on the other hand, your post does confirm your assertion.

It is obvious, from your post,
that human intelligence has indeed suffered. You probably have your Christian parents, Christian teachers, and Christian neighbors to thank for your ignorance.

I do not see one example, in your reponse, that supports your assertion that the "god delusion" has led to the decline, or statical posture, of the scientific community.

Atheisttoothfairy said: "Any belief that exists outside of reality, can indeed become dangerous to any society, if it spreads too far and wide...Christianty has already proven how dangerous it can be from it's sorry past."

First, it is "its" not "it's", secondarily your assertion that Christianity is dangerous should be supported by FACTS and EVIDENCE. You are expecting your readers to accept your word for it, simply because you have said it. Ironically, it is the argument you have against believers, isn't it?

Have a nice day!

THE ACE said...

Thecla: If you want some examples
of the harm of Christianity, I can give you several that have been used before at this site, but are
worth repeating.

How about the vast number of Jews who were slaughtered by those holy
Crusaders on their way to Jerusalem? Or the horror of the
Spanish Inquisition which was
supported by the Catholic church?
Or England under the Puritan Oliver
Cromwell? (That guy was about as
much fun as a lower g.i. and a root
canal put together). Or in more recent times, the Florida teachers
who were threatened with the loss
of their jobs by Anita Bryant, because they were gay?

I"m sure there are many more examples, but I've got to get back to work now, so perhaps some of the
other people here can come up with more.

THE ACE said...

P.S. Also, check out some of the
stories at this site about parents
who denied their children proper
medical treatment and decided to
pray for them instead.

boomSLANG said...

The christian-spelling-police warned...First, it is "its" not "it's", secondarily your assertion that Christianity is dangerous should be supported by FACTS and EVIDENCE.

As long as you are erecting strawmen, you overlooked the misspelling of "christianty", too. Here, let me play---hey, you should be more thorough in the future, or else, Chief-spelling-officer "Yahweh" might revoke your badge when you get back to the invisible precinct in the sky.

"Thecla"(likely "Andrew"/"Goldie") continues...You are expecting your readers to accept your word for it, simply because you have said it.

Really? You know what people expect, do you? Hmmm, to the best of my knowledge, nothing here is being offered conditionally; you are free to reject what you read on this blog. No threats of hellfire..i.e..believe it, or else!; no "one-size-fits-all" philosophies.

Ironically, it is the argument you have against believers, isn't it?

No, hotshot....the argument "against believers" is that they have no argument for their respective beliefs. The onus of providing the "argument" is in the lap of the one doing the "believing". So, in that sense, of course we're not going to take their word for it---similar to how you won't likely take a Muslim's "word" that "Allah is God!". Duh?

twincats said...

Wow! A troll with an actual grammar and spelling fetish.

THAT's gotta be a first!

Franciscan Monkey said...

Twincats wrote, "Wow! A troll with an actual grammar and spelling fetish."

Ironically, Thecla misspelled one word and committed at least one grammatical error in that post (more if he or she follows American conventions). I don't really care, but it is funny considering the circumstances.

Respectfully,
Franciscan Monkey

Thecla said...

Oh, Mr. Monkey, I believe you were reading the "copy/pastes" of atheisttoothfairy...I did fail to note the misspelling of "Christianity" in my response, thank you for redirecting me.
If I have made errors, please do not hesitate to illuminate me...otherwise you are simply doing what everyone on the site is doing...asking me to take your word for it!

Franciscan Monkey said...

Thecla,

You misspelled "response" in your previous post. Also, you may want to reconsider your use of "secondarily." In addition, if you are American, periods and commas should go inside the quotation marks. If you follow the British conventions, then you were correct.

Like I mentioned before, I really don't care. I knew what you meant when you said "secondarily," even if it was incorrect, just as I knew that you meant "response" and that ATF meant "signing." I make plenty of spelling and grammar errors, too. I am just nit-picking your nit-picking.

Respectfully,
Franciscan Monkey

Stephen C said...

Ted,
Logical statements, like yours, that reject supernatural beliefs are like oxygen and light. Neither of which are supernatural.

Andrew and Thecla,
Please re-read what you write, with a critical mind.
Because if you’re not 15 years old, you’re certainly coming across as huffy, snotty 15-year-old prigs. Smug, competitive know-alls. The sort people avoid.
Thinking adults have no excuse for that.
Here’s the caution.
No-one is listening to you, except you.
No-one is enjoying you, except you.
And, bottom line, unlike the posters here, you’re defending nothing.

sconnor said...

Thekla,

Yu sew smarte, thanx four correctifing hour missteaks. Yew musin bee an docktir, oar somkinde uf reel genious. Cood yuu correctify awl hour grammeratical airors? U sur our smarte an eye bet's reale purty to!!!!!!!

Astreja said...

Ted, I found this quote of yours tremendously reassuring:

"It made me realize that children can’t control how they’re raised. But we can re-evaluate what we were conditioned to think."

Oh, and I like your website. Bookmarked for future reference. (rushes out to buy large bag of Unicorn Chow)

Boe said...

People like Thecla are just fukcing arsehole's.

Bill said...

Now that all these spelling errors have come front and center. I want to ask this question. This is how I spell realize, yet time and time again I see it spelled realise. Is there some other English speaking nation that spells it that way or do that many people spell it wrong?

SEO said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
SEO said...

Hey Bill in "English" English words like organize and realize are spelled with an s.

xrayman said...

Thank you so much for clearing that up SEO, because I just kept seeing this pattern with realize being spelled realise and wondered why the fuck so many people kept spelling that word wrong. Now that I remember back I did used to write someone from the U.K. who spelled that way and I always thought she just didn't know how to spell realize.

I would also like to know what the fuck my blogger name comes up Bill sometimes and Xrayman other times. It doesn't matter to me but I want consistantsy here.

Bill

AtheistToothFairy said...

Thecla wrote:
First of all it is "signing" not "singing"...on the other hand,....
----

Thecla (or more likely a troll with multiple personalities---such as Andrew and Gold(ie) In My Ear),

So how can you be so sure, that I didn't mean someone might be SINGING the death warrant for human intelligence. Stranger reasons have existed for a SONG to break-out, I should think.

Now about your name Thecia.
From Wikpedia......."Thecla (St. Taqla) was a young noble virgin who listened to Paul's "discourse on virginity" and became Paul's follower."

Surely you don't believe anyone here will buy into you being some "Nobel Virgin", right?

>It is obvious, from your post, that human intelligence has indeed suffered. You probably have your Christian parents, Christian teachers, and Christian neighbors to thank for your ignorance.

Welp Thecla, me friend Sconnor all-ready Demon-straighted to U what a fine job ur xtian teechers done did in teeching us-in's to reed and right so good.
May bee if dey had taught us xxx-xtians bet-er-er then wee wood no how ta due as well as U do with langwhich when U post.

Bee cause U so much luv to point owt a cupple miner floors in the speling and gram-errr of counter argu-mints to ur own deelus-a-nail beeliefs, I'm shure this maketh your gawd win the bat-el of hims being reel.

I dos hopeth 1 dae to bee a 6th grade english teecher, like youself, and asspire to go round and shew Y a few words spellt wrongly by a un-gawdly sinnor, can mak ur gawd the reel thing, by dafawlt.


>I do not see one example, in your reponse, that supports your assertion that the "god delusion" has led to the decline, or statical posture, of the scientific community.

Oops, I guess I win this argument on the god delusion, solely because you spelt "reponse" incorrectly here.
i.e. I won; going by your own spelling rules in posts !!

>First, it is "its" not "it's",

Well Thecla, if you want to really nitpick here, I could argue that you (as this assumed teacher of 6th grade English), should know that one is to put TWO spaces after a period, but you failed to do so every time.

http://andromeda.rutgers.edu/~jlynch/Writing/p.html
Punctuation and Spaces.
The traditional rule, and one especially suited to the monospaced fonts common in typescripts (as opposed to desktop publishing): put one space after a comma or semicolon; put two spaces after a (sentence-ending) period, exclamation point, or question mark

Seems you need to brush up on your own writing skills, I should think, huh?

>secondarily your assertion that Christianity is dangerous should be supported by FACTS and EVIDENCE. You are expecting your readers to accept your word for it, simply because you have said it. Ironically, it is the argument you have against believers, isn't it?

First off, it was a short post I wrote, not some ENGLISH-ESSAY I had written on this vast topic of Christianity being dangerous.
To MOST, on this Ex-xtian site, this assertion I made has been proven time and time again on this very site and many sites like it.
You are more than welcome to provide evidence to the contrary, but of course, that won't happen, because you are nothing more than a troll, with a troll's agenda here.


Have a "nice day" yourself; Not so "Nobel Virgin"


ATF (Who thinks the "gold(ie) standard" just hit an all time low)

Jacstar said...

Hi, I'm from Australia, we also spell words like realise, organise, prioritise with an "s"...Most of you on this site are American right? It seems like *some* americans don't seem to know what's going on in the rest of the world...lol
We also call a "period" a "full-stop"....If you would like to know anything more about Aussie English....I'm happy to answer all your questions, I just gotta go feed my pet kangaroo first....

AtheistToothFairy said...

Jacstar wrote:
We also call a "period" a "full-stop"
----
Jacstar,

If I recall correctly, the term 'full stop' came from the old days of sending telegraph messages, before telephones became common.

ATF

SEO said...

To completely throw this thread off…I’m in Alaska living in an igloo and when the polar bears aren’t chasing me they’re chasing penguins. Now, I’ve got to sign off to feed the dogs that make up my sled team.

InteGR7 said...

Wow... people in here get vehement...

Thecla,

You're 100% right, that assertions of Christian hostility and all round evilness should be back up by evidence and fact. Although it doesn't really matter either way. Christians have done stupid things in the past, so have atheists... humanity moves forward by trying not to repeat them... We all know why religion has been responsible for so much atrocity...

However, I would have to say that correcting another's grammar and spelling doesn't seem like the love that I hear in church (yes I am a Christian). Many of the people here are very intelligent, and passionate about what they believe, and if you don't treat them with th e Love that God asks us to show to others, you'll get slammed and nothing will be accomplished.

I would have send you a private message, but was unable to locate a means to do so.

Regards,
Integr7

WhateverLolaWants said...

Integr7,

Thank you for being perhaps the first Xian poster here to openly chide another Xian for being rude and to not slip an insult in to the ex-Xians. Seriously, you're the first I can remember, and it's nice.

Ted,

Welcome to the site! I'll check out your site sometime- looks cool.

InteGR7 said...

That's unfortunate... but all too true.

I think when I first came in here I was fairly zealous about what I believe (I still am) and completely forgot the importance of obeying the very tenets of what I believe. (Which is to love others without judgment; for those of you who don't know what I believe as opposed to all the other Christians out there. :P)

boomSLANG said...

Integr7...Christians have done stupid things in the past, so have atheists...

True. And?....what can we conclude from this? Here's my assessment: People are people are people. No one is being guided by any omnipresent, omnipotent...and especially, any omnibenevolent, "spirit". The end. Moreover, there IS no "virtue" where "reward"/"punishment" is concerned. If the one only reason that the religious make efforts to live a good and virtuous life in the first place, is because they are seeking to please such a "being", then those attributes---if they can ever attain them---become superficial. The next statement illustrates this point perfectly....

and if you don't treat them with the Love that God asks us to show to others, you'll get slammed and nothing will be accomplished[bold added]

And again, why must one be "asked" to treat people with "love", etc? To me, this makes a mockery of the word "Love".

InteGR7 said...

Hey Boom,

You know I wasn't really looking to start a debate here... as you can probably tell, I've decided to stop with the whole point and counter point posts... it really accomplishes nothing, cause us Christians believe in fairy tales and magical beings, or at the very least in things which you do not... and it's not my job to convince you otherwise.

If you're referring to the comment that I posted, that was directed at another Christian, you'll find that I was directing him to an authority that we recognize, and probably the reason that he's here, trying his best to share the mission of Christ.

Superficial or not, a deep sense of dedication to one's beliefs and mission is something that I personally find quite admirable, especially if you look at yourself, someone's who's so passionate about freeing the world from religious dogma. (Obviously I don't know your exact mission here).

If my whole life revolves around a God who I serve, what is that to you? I believe in a being, you argue on behalf of a cause. We (Christians) love others because God has asked us to, because he first loved us, and his Spirit works in our life to change my selfish nature into a selfless humility.

stronger now said...

In defense of Boomslang(not that he can't do it himself, nor needs it really)

"If my whole life revolves around a God who I serve, what is that to you?"

While this line was directed at boomslang, I feel inclined to respond.

It may be that another fellow human sees you wasteing your life on absurdities, and is simply trying to help you stop such frivolous non-sense.

Or perhaps, it's the fact that your life has an impact on this world and the other humans that you share it with, and he's trying to minimize the damaging effects your belief system creates for the rest of humanity.

"Superficial or not, a deep sense of dedication to one's beliefs and mission is something that I personally find quite admirable, especially if you look at yourself, someone's who's so passionate about freeing the world from religious dogma."

You compare boomslangs insistence on actual truth and your dedication to illogical dogma???
I think there are a lot of issues you're purposely avoiding to be able make any such implication. Do you even know what those issues are?

Do you admire those who were so dedicated to their beliefs...that they flew planes into buildings???

I think that the "god" you serve is described as an asshole who has done horrid things, and expects people to do horrible things to other humans...out of devotion to him.

So, try and compare apples to apples when examining the situation here and you'll find you're a far different fruit than boom', and one much more like those ripening in the nightmares of this world.

InteGR7 said...

You know you're right stronger... I wasn't talking to you. However you're welcome to join in the conversation if you must. I will say right now that I won't reply to any more posts that seek to pick apart my comments, because, as I've said, I'd prefer not to get into point and counter point matches with people who clearly will not believe my fairy tales... as such... I see no need to convince you, I merely seek to add my comments, much like the other people of this forum, to various threads.... if it's alright with you, I'd appreciate doing so in peace?

I do find it strange that you claim that Christians have have such damaging effects on humanity... yet you're the one who is intruding on my right to peaceful commenting. I entered this thread wanting nothing more than to correct a brother in Christ... yet boom, and now you, seek to use these comments against me, to somehow add to your already impressive tally of posts ripping into other Christians.

If you honestly think a Christian, who believes that our purpose on this world is to Love God and Love others, is evil... then that's great man. I personally think that the world needs more love... and while you may disagree with my loving God... do not lump me in with the religious extremists. You might be surprised, but the church doesn't actually condone 9/11. I'd also appreciate if you not accuse my God of doing horrid things without clear facts.

.:webmaster:. said...

Intgr7 wrote, "I personally think that the world needs more love... and while you may disagree with my loving God..."

Although you weren't addressing me, I want to jump in here.

I don't disagree with your god. I just fail to see a reason to believe your god even exists. Further, I'd ask this question of you: If a dog that you loved bit someone for no good reason, what would you deem an appropriate punishment for that dog's actions?

Would you,

a) torture the dog for an hour.

b) torture the dog for a year.

c) torture the dog for eternity.

My point here is we really don't have a good definition of love. You submit that your god teaches you to love. If love means treating others with kindness, I'm all for it. However, circumstances will weigh heavily in how much love I'll be able to show in any particular circumstance. For instance, if someone threatens my family, I might not be too loving to that person. If I am a soldier fighting for my country, I will likely be required to kill people -- hardly a loving thing to do.

If love, however, means unconditionally turning the other cheek, well then I'd suggest that even your god refuses to go that far. In fact, if I go to my grave lacking faith in your god, He's promised (according to the Bible) to recompense my apostasy and disrespect for Him with everlasting torment in a phantasmagorical underworld.

Saying your god teaches you to love people sounds nice, but it actually communicates nothing. And, the image in my mind of what love means contradicts the wrathful, vengeful, murderous, harsh, and frequently unpleasant actions of the god that is documented in the Old Testament and who supposedly is the father of the god-man Jesus.

boomSLANG said...

Integ7 makes an allowance...You know you're right stronger... I wasn't talking to you. However you're welcome to join in the conversation if you must.

Uh, you're damned right he's welcomed, just like you're welcome to click the little red "X" in the top corner if you have a problem with anything being said to you.

Integr7...Hey Boom,

You know I wasn't really looking to start a debate here...


That may very well be true, however, when a Christian decides they want to loiter on an EX-christian website(as you evidently do), then I see that, at the very least, as an implicit challenge. Again, you came here; we didn't come find you. There are literally thousands of Christian websites for you to hang out on, where people share your "peaceful" views/philosophies, and you don't have to worry for a nano-second about being confronted, nor, explaining yourself.

Integr7...as you can probably tell, I've decided to stop with the whole point and counter point posts...

'Can't say I blame you. Your belief, as best as I can tell, dead-ends at "I believe". And while persistant in your attempts to resolve the clear and present contradictions in the Christian doctrine, these attempts failed to be convincing, at least from a logical standpoint. But of course, if you should decide to play your "Faith" card, we both know that "anything" is possible---in other words, "logic" is immaterial. Yes?.. is this your "hand"?..or do you want to retry your arguments from "logic"?

Integr7...it[debate] really accomplishes nothing,

Oh, I beg to differ. With the advent of the World Wide Web, information is being exchanged at an alarming rate. The more debates that religion loses, the more people see it, the sooner superstition is abolished from the face of the earth. In other words, in another few thousand years, people may scoff at Christianity(hopefully), just like Christians scoff at the gods of the Egyptian pantheon.

Integr7...[be]cause [we] Christians believe in fairy tales and magical beings, or at the very least in things which you do not

Yes, in things in which I do not. But let me remind you, Muslims and Buddhists believe in "things" which you and I both "do not". In other words, you are no less skeptical than I, when it comes to other people's religious beliefs. Again, this is where compartmentalization comes into play.

Integr7...... and it's not my job to convince you otherwise.

Yes....yes it is, according to your doctrine. You are instructed to "spread the Gospel". Just find our resident, Catholic troll, "OTC".. aka "Marc"; aka "Yogi"; aka "Passerby"; aka "Unblinded", and ask him. In fact, not only are you requested to spread these "Gospels", the Christian doctrine condones the killing of those who would lead you away from your beliefs, including your own family members.(Ref: Deut) That is, unless biblegod since changed its mind. But, assuming that that passage isn't hypocritical, let's settle one thing once and for all---is killing "wrong" because the taking of another's life is not a good thing?... or only because biblegod says it's "wrong"? I await your well-thought-out answer.

Integr7...If you're referring to the comment that I posted, that was directed at another Christian, you'll find that I was directing him to an authority that we recognize, and probably the reason that he's here, trying his best to share the mission of Christ.

So, apparently this other Christian does think it's his or her "job" to convince us, yes?

Integr7...Superficial or not,

Superficial.

Integr7...... a deep sense of dedication to one's beliefs and mission is something that I personally find quite admirable, especially if you look at yourself, someone's who's so passionate about freeing the world from religious dogma. (Obviously I don't know your exact mission here).

I'd find your "dedication" admirable, if you could back your "beliefs" with some good, strong evidence. That is, that Christianity is the One Universal Truth, and that all other religious beliefs accepted on "Faith" are a bunch of bologna.

Integr7...If my whole life revolves around a God who I serve, what is that to you?

Well, if you don't have evidence for this "God", I'd call it a waste of time. But please, don't misunderstand---I couldn't care less if you waste your time---it's YOUR time. On the other hand, if you expect people to share your "faith", and/or, if you expect to loiter on this site, you'd better have some rock-solid evidence. You don't.

Integr7...I believe in a being, you argue on behalf of a cause.

A "being" implies existence. Said being therefore exists. Where?

Integr7...We (Christians) love others because God[Yahweh] has asked us to,

That's right.....reaffirm my point. Okay, let's pretend like Yahweh didn't "ask you" to love others. Would you therefore not love your friends and family? You only do it because you are ASKED to????

Integr7...because he first loved us,

"Love" is a verb, as well as a noun. How do you "know" that this "God" loves you? Because the bible says so?...."Jesus loves me, this I know, for the bible tells me so"???

Integr7...and his Spirit works in our life to change my selfish nature into a selfless humility.

If your alleged "creator" is "omniscient", "omnipotent", and "perfect", then we should be able to logically conclude that you were created precisely as this creator intended. That is, unless you're saying that man's "will" is for some reason stronger than "God's Will". Either way, I know you will be able to "explain it away", so let's give you that opportunity.

stronger now said...

Iterger7,

This site was made for exchristians. I'm simply tired of you, personally, and christians in general, of misrepresenting so many things about the biblegod, non-believers, christians, christianity, religion, love, and many many more things. If you don't wish to have your comments deconstructed for the purpose of highlighting the falshoods and misrepresentations found therein, simply stop posting, or better yet, stop posting misleading comments.

"I do find it strange that you claim that Christians have have such damaging effects on humanity... yet you're the one who is intruding on my right to peaceful commenting."

A'hem...I said:"...the damaging effects your belief system creates for the rest of humanity."

I was commenting on the belief system, not about those that subscribe to it. I know there are people who call themselves christians who do many good things for humanity. I just don't see their belief system as a necessary component for their good deeds. Conversly, I see the christian teaching of eternal torment psychologicaly cruel and abusive.(It was for me anyway.)

"I'd prefer not to get into point and counter point matches with people who clearly will not believe..."[bold added]

Still don't get it do you? I would believe...if only you'd provide credible evidence. A logical argument for your beliefs wouldn't hurt either. So far you've failed. Stop blaming us for expecting you to justify your beliefs and stop implying that we(I) wouldn't change our minds. It is dishonest of you to portray us in this way. It is because of things like this that I respond to you. If you wish for me to stop correcting you, either stop making so many errors or stop posting.

"...yet boom, and now you, seek to use these comments against me, to somehow add to your already impressive tally of posts ripping into other Christians."

Again, this is not an accurate protrayal. I seek to rebut your false interpretations in an effort to achieve a more honest view of religious issues. Not to rack up some imagined tally. If you consider being expected to be honest as using your words against you, perhaps it's your perspective that's at fault.

"I'd also appreciate if you not accuse my God of doing horrid things without clear facts."

Why should I worry about facts if your not going to? But I think the webmaster has done a super job with this bit, and I hope you'll reply to him at least.

boomSLANG said...

On more thing...

Integ7...I'd also appreciate if you not accuse my God of doing horrid things without clear facts.

Honestly, have you seriously not figured out that if a non-believer makes such a charge, it is under the hypothetical senario that your "God"(notice quotations) exists, as delineated in the Christian doctrine, which, said doctrine is "fact"(again, notice quotations) because "Christians" say it is "fact"???

We don't believe in your biblegod. If you believe in the deity of the holy bible, and that the bible is "fact", then the "facts" clearly show that said "God" does/did/and will do, "horrid" things.(and that is an understatement)

stronger now said...

One more thing. The whole 911 issue got raised when you stated that:"...a deep sense of dedication to one's beliefs and mission is something that I personally find quite admirable".

So I decided to question how much you really meant this. If you admire dedication to beliefs, why then do you not admire the dedication of the hijackers? Is it because you find their dedication less than adequate? Or, is it because they were not as strict in ferreting out the falshoods of their beliefs as you think they should have been? I wasn't questioning "the church", I was questioning you.

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