Has Satan been feeding my daughter lies?
Sent in by DK
My family is extremely fundamental, evangelical –- most of them missionaries. I let go of my beliefs about two years ago, but in order to not rock the boat, have stayed low key and have not come out of the closet yet.
Over Christmas, my 27-year-old daughter told my 81-year-old mother that she believes the search for truth is revealed from within and you must follow your own heart wherever it leads even if it doesn’t lead to Christianity, because one must be true to oneself.
Here is my mother’s comment:
How close-minded, arrogant, and judgmental. I feel sickened ... but not at all surprised.
DK from Atlanta
My family is extremely fundamental, evangelical –- most of them missionaries. I let go of my beliefs about two years ago, but in order to not rock the boat, have stayed low key and have not come out of the closet yet.
Over Christmas, my 27-year-old daughter told my 81-year-old mother that she believes the search for truth is revealed from within and you must follow your own heart wherever it leads even if it doesn’t lead to Christianity, because one must be true to oneself.
Here is my mother’s comment:
“Sorry about what *** wrote, but at least we know where she stands. We are fervently praying the Lord will open her eyes. She doesn’t know her heart is deceitful and desperately wicked. Also Satan is the father of lies and he has been feeding her lies and she has been believing them. We pray she will believe Jesus, who is the way, the truth and the life.”
How close-minded, arrogant, and judgmental. I feel sickened ... but not at all surprised.
DK from Atlanta
Comments
It really is sad to see so many christians waste so much of their life and time chasing after the ghost of an invisible man who has been long gone from this world for many years. They can pray all they want however most christians are too ignorant to see that closing one's eyes and talking to their imaginary friend will not solve anything period.
DK's Mother Wrote:
"She doesn’t know her heart is deceitful and desperately wicked."
No, the real problem is that too many christians are too ignorant to see past their own superstition, and narrow minded ignorance to see that christianity and other religions are nothing more than man made scare tactics based on fear and manipulation. Your mother is a victim of christian mind rape, which has done nothing but robbed her of her true individuality.
Unfortunately at your mother's age, she will more than likely never change her mind about what she believes based on the time period that she comes from. My mom and dad are also around your mother's age, and I understand the time period that they come from. Your mother and my parents will more than likely never change their mind about what they believe no matter what we tell them or no matter what kind of evidence that we present to them. They'll always say that Satan is deceiving us, because it is their way of dealing with the fact that their beliefs in Jesus are faulty, and they are too scared to face the real truth that what they believe is false.
As I had stated in another previous post of mine, I really do believe it would kill someone like my father at his age who has clinged to such a belief all of those years if he ever really truly found out that the christian belief was false.
DK's Mother Wrote: "Also Satan is the father of lies and he has been feeding her lies and she has been believing them. We pray she will believe Jesus, who is the way, the truth and the life."
I would ask your mother how come Jesus is allowing Satan to feed your daughter lies, and why doesn't Jesus care enough about your daughter to intervene and stop Satan from feeding her these lies. I would also ask your mother why is it that Satan seems to be able to make things more believable than what Jesus does?
Once again another christian is giving more power and credit to Satan than they are giving to their very own God. Christians give more glory and credit to Satan than they ever give to Jesus. It seems Satan is kicking Jesus' ass really good these days, and it also seems that Satan is more of an effective communicator than what Jesus is.
Based on Jesus' actions here lately it also seems that Jesus doesn't care enough about the people of this world to communicate with them effectively and make himself known to mankind.
Most christians who seek after God for guidance can't ever seem to agree with each other when it comes to the correct interpretation of scripture, and they seem to get a mixed message from God. Just look at the different denominations of churches that are out there. Why has God allowed his own church to become divided? You should ask your mother about that also. Christians are the most divided people around. I have found more unity among atheists than I have ever found among christians.
Christians are enslaved to their God, and they can't stand it anytime someone leaves their cult, and finds true freedom. It is the christian who lives in bondage. Christians are unable to think for themselves and they feel the need to seek God's approval for everything instead of learning how to use their own intellect (brain) to make decisions in life. Most christians I have ever met or have been around are some of the most miserable people.
It's really sad to see your mother live in bondage to a myth like that. Her beliefs in God are the real lie. She is enslaved to her fear of God, and she is making those statements about your daughter based on her own personal fear of God. Most christians IMO, do not truly serve and live for God out of love. They only serve God and live for him out of the fear of hell. I'd say most christians deep down inside resent and hate their God. They are just too afraid to admit it.
I would've told your mother that if Jesus wants me to believe him that he needs to show up and prove his own existence without making threats of hell fire and damnation. Most of the content in his Holy book is out of date and has expired. The bible is nothing more than a insult to modern day education and intelligence.
If Jesus is real, and if he wants people to believe in him, then he needs to show up in person and prove it to the people who live in the year 2008 without casting people into a lake of fire called hell.
Any all knowing God who supposedly knows what is best for the people of Earth would realize that it is best that he reveals himself in a loving way so that none of us would have any doubts about his existence.
In a nutshell, it's time that Jesus gives the people of this planet an update, and let people know that he is still around and he is real, and that he does love us. However since he chooses not to do so, that reinforces my beliefs that he may never have existed period, or he just simply lied to the people of Earth many years ago.
Telling someone to have faith in something that happened 2,000 years ago, and just telling us to accept that it happened and believe it, is like playing mind games with people. Trying to seek God and find his will is like playing "Hide and go seek". Christianity is all about mind games, and there is no personal God period.
Reading some ancient text book called the bible and being told to simply have child like faith and believe is not acceptable in the modern day world.
On a more positive note, congratulations to your daughter. It is the younger generation who will one day make a difference in this world.
Hopefully the younger generations will be the one's who are able to help people once and for all escape the superstition and bondage that religions (which also includes christianity) that oppress and enslave people.
It is christianity and other religions that cause division and discrimination against others.
True love is accepting people for who they are. Not what they choose to believe.
You must be very proud of your daughter. She sounds like she is not afraid to use logic and reason in her life.
Also, kudos to you as well. Being raised in a fundie family is tough. However, it is not a guarantee that it will ruin the lives of anyone caught up in it from birth. Many use their brains and escape. We are the lucky ones.
Stay around and share more with this website. It's always good to hear when someone makes that break.
Jim Earl
Sometimes the boat needs to be rocked.
DK
I'm still in the closet about my apostasy to my fundy family members as well as anyone who might spill the beans to them (my dad, who wouldn't do it on purpose, he'd just forget and blurt it out.)
I guess I still can't stand the thought of the distress it would cause them. Why should they waste their time praying that jebus will 'open my eyes'?
Also, since I don't get to see them much (they live in the midwest and I in CA) I really hate to waste that precious time in fruitless discussions about my immortal soul and its ultimate fate. For me, it's just easier to talk the talk and go to church when I visit them.
That being said, hooray for DK's daughter!
Thank you very much for your kind words. I am truly honored that you feel my words have meant so much to you. I mean that from the bottom of my heart.
I just find it sad to see people who end up wasting so much of their life placing hope in a spiritual being who is supposed to be so personal and real to us like a living and breathing human being when he is no more personal and real than "Puff The Magic Dragon" is.
Another thing that is so sad about it, is that christians talk so much about the love and acceptance of Christ, yet they are also taught not to accept others who do not subscribe to their belief system, which causes pain and rejection for others who choose to believe something different. There is no unity when it comes to christianity.
There were many times in my own personal christian walk when I was at my lowest point, and I kept on praying, fasting, reading my bible, and trusting God to pull me out of my pit of depression, only to be let down again. In reality there was no great comforter, and all I ever heard from Jesus was dead silence and no answers which resulted in me being very sick with depression for many years.
I am still not fully recovered from the damage that christianity caused in my life, however I am making progress, and I am starting to believe in my own abilities again. I am finding that once you believe in yourself that is when you start seeing true happiness, and progress in your life again.
I didn't spend as much time in christianity as you did DK, however I did grow up around it, and I am still around it quiet a bit due to the fact that I am from a christian family.
I wish you and your daughter well DK. Just tell your daugther to keep being herself, and if nobody else likes it then that is their problem not hers.
Christians are some of the most "Co-dependent" people on the face of this planet. I think the real problem with a lot of christians is that anytime they see someone who has walked away from the faith having a successful and productive life, it threatens their belief system and it scares them, because they have been taught that it is not possible to be truly happy outside of Jesus which is nothing more than a lie, and another scare tactic that christians like to use.
The fact is that anytime a christian sees a Non-Christian who is truly happy and living a productive life outside of Christ it causes many christians to have doubts about what they really believe. That is when christians start questioning in their own mind, "Is it really true that it is not possible to be happy outside of Christ?" That's when they start questioning the validity of that statement.
A happy Non-believer is a christian's worst nightmare. I personally know christians who would rather see a Non-Christian who has walked away from the faith lose everything and fall into complete misery just to bring that same person back into the cult, because it would reassure those same christians of their faulty faith and belief system, and it would reinforce their false beliefs. I've even known christians who have prayed and asked God to bring hardship and brokenness into someone's life just to bring them back to the faith. I have no respect for anyone who would pray such a prayer. It is a very mean and cruel prayer to pray, and I find much ignorance in anyone who would pray a prayer of brokenness and hardship into anyone's life.
Another problem is that a lot of christians who pray such a prayer do not stop and think that hardship and brokenness might be what caused that same person to turn away from Christ in the first place. They don't seem to realize that more hardship and brokenness in that person's life will only cause them to resent and hate God even more.
Back when I was a christian I remember seeing atheists who were more happy than I was. These same people were living productive lives, and having great successes without the fear and worry of some God, while I wasting time chasing after God and trying to find his perfect will for my life, which never happened. These same atheists were moving on with their lives, and I was too busy worrying about pleasing God. Christianity nearly destroyed my life. I wasted many precious years chasing after the mythical holy spirit and trying to please God. I was truly a slave to Christ, and had lost all ability to think for myself and make decisions.
Being able to be true to oneself along with personal success and achievement such as having a good career that you enjoy, hobbies, a loving family, and good friends is what brings true happiness.
Mandy :)
Why the fuck do you call yourself “Passerby”? You’re not doing a very good job of passing us by.
Passerby wrote: “I don't just post for you WM. You may wish to deny God for your entire life but there are many site visitors that won't stay with you until the end. These, when they turn to God, will become the salt of the earth.”
Harassing people for Jesus? Sounds like you’re taking it upon yourself to answer DK’s mom’s prayer. Very sweet of you.
Passerby wrote: “I post for these people dear WM. I have told you before that I will not stop shouting to the world about the reality of God. Unless you remove this site from the Internet, or force people to become members of this site, I will continue to post.”
The people who visit this site already know the Christian message. You can easily figure this out from the name of the Web site: “Ex-Christian.net.” The essence of being ex-Christian is that we have become convinced that the Christian message (which we already know well) is a crock of shit.
Passerby wrote: “The people that visit this site deserve to know the truth and the truth is not what you hold. You can delete my posts as you wish but hidding from the truth won't eliminate it.”
The people who wish to know the Christian message do not come here. They go to Christian Web sites. You are wasting everyone’s time and pissing people off. Can’t you understand that?
Passerby wrote: “The reality of separation from God can be heard here:
'Bill Wiese Video'”
How much posting do you think will get us to believe testimony from a man who clearly hasn’t learned how to tell a bad nightmare from real life?
Passerby wrote: “The reality of God's tenderness, love and mercy can be read here:
'Vassula Ryden's First Message during a multi-year discussion with Jesus'”
We find it more likely that Vassula Ryden is deluded (or lying) than that he had a chat with Jesus. How much posting do you think will convince us that imaginary dead people can talk?
Passerby wrote: “Above all revelations, the Good News professed by Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, should be your primary source.”
We know way too much about the gospels to take them seriously. How much posting do you think it will get us to believe what is written in sources that we don’t believe?
But since you believe the gospels, let me leave you with a couple of verses: Matthew 7:6 and Matthew 10:14. Heed God’s holy word.
Poor little Passerby is a prime example of someone who has suffered typical Christian Mind Rape, and brainwashing. His so called opinions about the reality of his God is nothing more than pure typical christian arrogance.
People like Passerby are dangerous in a way. People like him along with his beliefs are a threat to true freedom in this country. Christianity is a form of terrorism. If it were up to people like Passerby we would be under a christian dictatorship, which would rob us all of certain freedoms. That's why I will continue to support organizations such as the ACLU to make sure that people like Passerby will never be able to take away certain civil rights from people who choose to live their lives the way they see fit.
I am really convinced that Christianity is a another form of Mental Illness. It is no different than schizophrenia, and it appears that Passerby is suffering from a really serious case of this mental illness.
Passerby also apparently has nothing going for him in life, and out of his own misery he feels the need to come onto this site, because his belief system is being threatened by happy Non-believers who are proving that it is in fact possible to be happy outside of Christ.
You can tell that Passerby is scared to death by the content that he posts on this site. What this is really about is the fact that Jesus has not shown back up, and Christians are starting to lose the war against Secularism, so people like Passerby are starting to panic. So therefore all christians like him know how to do is quote content from an old out of date ancient text known as the bible. Out of desperation they hope that somehow those words in the bible will magically come to life and convince all of us that we are wrong. It's never going to happen.
Sorry to burst your bubble Passerby, but most of us are more happy without your Jesus. It is reality face it. There is nothing you can do about it sweetie. Yes, it is possible to be happy outside of Jesus and we are all proof of that, and that scares you to death doesn't it?
You will lead nobody back to Christ on this site Passerby. Your threats that you make on this site are exactly why I see christians like you as terrorists. You may not go around blowing up buildings, however you still use the threats of hell and damnation from your God as a scare tactic which is the same thing that a terrorist does.
Your beliefs and approach are not that much different than a Muslim Passerby. It's either submit to your christian God, or be casted into hell. It's all about trying to get someone to subscribe to your beliefs by trying to get people to live in fear. That's the same thing a Muslim terrorist does.
However, in reality you are nothing more than an annoying miserable little man. You really need some professional help Passerby, and I'm not being sarcastic either. You have lost the ability to reason and think logically Passerby. It is so sad to see someone like you who lives in christian bondage. You remind me of people like David Koresh who led that cult down in Waco back in the early 90s.
I hope one day you will be able to escape christianity like I did Passerby. I will never return to it, and your posts just remind me why I am so glad to be free of christianity and people like yourself. I can tell that you are a very unhappy and miserable person. Your posts speak for themselves.
I hope that one day you will find true happiness Passerby. I really am saddened to see someone like you who is so trapped in christianity. I know how it felt. It robbed me of so many of my precious years along with my dreams. Like you, I also use to preach sermons and quote scripture to atheists and other non-believers. However, in reality they were living a more happy and productive life than I was as a christian. You are doing the same exact thing that I did. I recognize your tactics. Plus I'm sure you are also trying to score brownie points with your God. Thanks for helping me to realize that leaving the christian faith was a good move, although I'm sure that is not your intention. You intend to preach the gospel on this site and win souls for Christ, but in reality you are just reminding all of us why we left the christian faith. It seems your intentions on this site are back firing on you Passerby. You are shooting yourself in the foot and you are defeating your own purpose.
You will never know true freedom as long as you are enslaved to your false christian God Passerby. It's so sad that you have allowed yourself to get caught up in the teachings of ancient superstition.
Have a good day. :)
Mandy
Your comment is very well written. You should seriously consider writing articles or a book on atheism. Clear succinct logical attacks on Christian mythology. I know of a good christian and atheist discussion forum where you input would be valued. Let me know if you'd like the site.
You can tell that Passerby is scared to death by the content that he posts on this site. What this is really about is the fact that Jesus has not shown back up, and Christians are starting to lose the war against Secularism, so people like Passerby are starting to panic
---
Hi Mandy,
I totally agree with you here.
I see the increasing signs that most xtians are fearing that their beliefs are greatly being put to the test.
If you recall, only a few decades ago one just didn't question their doctor's advise, as doctors were seen as god-like.
Today, most folks will do at least a little research for their own health issues, instead of just taking the doc's words as 'gospel'.
It's the same for your car mechanic, where most will not just take the diagnosis on faith alone, but want at least some evidence that a real need exists before they will shell out money for some repair etc..
So I think many have learned to question authority figureheads, that formerly were almost forbidden to question.
I think this questioning of authority started during the 60's (yes I'm that old), and when the internet came along with all it's available knowledge, it became far easier for most folks to question anything, without having to do so face to face.
So I think, in many ways society has become more skeptical overall, and it makes sense that religious dogma itself is now being put into question as well.
I don't know how many former xtians lost their faith because of repeating promises about jesus's return, but how many times can one cry wolf before folks start doubting that jesus will ever return. I know that for myself, after hearing some new promise-date of his return being met with lame excuses, time and time again, one starts to realize it's all BS.
That is not to say that we still don't have blinded believers who still believe he'll be back at any moment, but I think most of the educated today have backed off from that view, even if they do maintain a general god belief itself.
I think Marc does what he does for one of two reasons.
He has a FEAR of hellfire that he can never shake, at least not enough to ever look outside his god box at reality, or, he has such little self-confidence in his ability to run his life without some magical god, that even if he wanted to push god aside, that fear of being alone won't let him to do it.
No one likes to feel alone, not even in their beliefs, and xtians who see that we escaped the claws of their xtian god, see their numbers diminishing as a result of reasoning that god is nothing more than a myth, like all the other gods were/are.
If we left their religion because we simply chose to follow some evil path in life and were just ignoring their god, they would just see us as evil lost sheep.
Things must get far more frightening for them, when we take the time to disprove the very reasons that cement their god into their daily existence, for that surely scares the be-jesus out of them.
At this point, they have to do a couple things.
1. Put on a tighter set of blinders, to better ignore the increasing evidence that their god was never real.
2. Put a whole lot of faith in their leading apologist's attempts to reconcile the bible's words, as well as putting forth the little bit of evidence to support a living breathing jesus of history.
Marc will never seek mental help, as his delusion is so real to him that he'll never see beyond it. Even if he gets glimpses of reality from time to time (from us), his great fear of hell and the wrath of his god upon him, makes it impossible for him to move outside his secure feeling bubble.
Someone recently said that xtians may even hate their god, but that fear of god's wrath is so strong that they don't dare ignore the xtian god.
For them, it feels far safer to just conform to god's rules and hold out hope that heaven awaits them (even if it's only a long shot), than to remove all chances and have to face their lives, and then their own death, totally alone.
Between xtians like Marc, Dan etc., our latest Buddha worshiper, and my former experience with the great many who greatly hold onto other extraordinary beliefs, it's clear that any form of reason can hardly put a dent in their chosen belief systems.
It's only those who are close to being 'on the fence', where I think we have a chance of reaching them with reason and logic.
For the rest, no amount of evidence/reason will ever get past the brick wall their minds have put up to protect their fragile beliefs.
As was pointed out in the Matrix movie, some just can never be freed from their delusion without serious problems arising.
They just simply aren't ready to face a universe where the reality we see, is most likely the only reality that there will be for any of us.
ATF (Who never realized how spectacularly insightful of human nature the Matrix movie was, until we talked about it here)
Thanks for your kind words. To be honest with you as much as I respect a lot of Atheists who post on this site, I do not consider myself to be one. I consider myself to be Agnostic. I still do believe there is some type of higher form of intelligence out there. I just don't know what it is, however I am convinced it is not the Christian God. Then again unlike christians I am willing to admit that I may be wrong, and that there might not be a God period. I have actually wondered at times if human life may have been created by another race of intelligent beings who were highly advanced as funny as that may sound to others.
I believe that the bible along with other ancient religious books are nothing more than man's failed attempts to explain the unknown. I do not believe the christians nor the Muslims have this higher power who they call "God" figured out. I do not believe that this higher power (God) is all that accessible, and I do not believe he is involved in all personal areas of our lives.
You simply cannot have a relationship with a man who is dead or who is unseen. Having a personal relationship with Jesus is just as unrealistic as having a relationship with George Washington or Abraham Lincoln. In a nutshell a spiritual relationship is no more different than having a relationship with an imaginary friend. It's called living in a fantasy world.
Having Faith is not acceptable for someone like me. When you tell someone to have faith in God to provide a certain thing or to do a certain thing, you are basically leaving things up to chance. I tried that many times back during my christian walk, and was always let down. Taking charge of my own life is what started producing the results that I wanted to see.
As for christians who post on this site such as Passerby, as much as I get annoyed at people like him, I do not wish him any harm in all honesty.
I just get annoyed at christians like Passerby mainly because they do not listen, and they do not acknowledge anything that we tell them. They have no consideration for what any of have to say or how we feel. It reminds me of just how delusional I was at one time. It's like christians can't come up with anything new to back up their faulty claim besides the same old recycled biblical propaganda, manipulation, and scare tactics. It's like watching reruns of a Television program that got cancelled many years ago, and you're tired of watching the same old episodes over and over again.
Christians have nothing new to offer that presents any valid evidence of their claims for Christ. My own personal experiences in dealing with christianity outweighs what the bible has to say on the matter of a personal God.
I find it quiet insulting anytime a christian who knows nothing about me or any of our lives claims that it is me, and everyone else who is the problem, not christianity. That is what I consider to be typical "christian know it all arrogance."
The fact is my personal dealings with christianity not working for me are valid, because they actually happened, and I can testify along with many other ex-christians who post on this site that christianity did not work for us. I know exactly where a lot of ex-christians are coming from who leave their testimonies on this site.
However, I do understand why Passerby is so consistent with his constant bible rambling. I do understand what motivates him. The reason why Passerby and other christians do not listen to us is because they are too scared of their God to listen to us. They are afraid that God will punish or discipline them for doing so.
They believe that Satan has deceived us, so therefore they have been taught not to listen to anything we have to say. That is part of christian brainwashing. As a christian, you are simply not allowed to think for yourself and you are taught that any thought or feeling that comes from within your heart is wicked. Unfortunately some christians have been sucked so far into this faulty belief that some will never be able to escape the bondage of christianity. Some christians are worse than others, and some have been brainwashed to a certain degree. Not all christians have been brainwashed equally.
Christians are all victims of superstition and mind rape. Like I mentioned in my above statement, some are worse cases than others. They are afraid to even acknowledge that they might be wrong, because if they were to do so, they would be admitting that they doubt their God which is considered a sin. Christians such as Passerby operate out of the fear of hell. That is what motivates christians like Passerby to keep on preaching and harassing others on this site.
I realize that christianity and hell are absurd to us non-believers, however to christians like Passerby that fear and belief is real to them, and they do take it seriously. Even though I no longer subscribe to the christian belief, I do understand exactly where Passerby is coming from because I at one time thought exactly like he does.
At one time that same fear of leaving and forsaking the christian God along with the fear of hell held me captive, and paralyzed me. Christianity may be a mythical lie, however it is a very powerful mythical lie. It can enslave one's mind, and make you become very delusional. It can make you down right crazy.
Passerby may claim that he loves Jesus, however his motive for preaching on this site is mostly out of the fear of his God, not love. He's afraid that his spiritual daddy will give him a beating if he does not do what he tells him to do. Like many other christians who post on this site, he feels the need to obey his God who commanded him to go out and preach the gospel. That is why christians like Passerby continue to harass others on this site.
I'm sure he also believes that when we talk down to him that he is being persecuted, so therefore God will reward him for his persecution according to (Matthew 5:10-12). I do believe that is Passerby's main motive for why he posts Christian Spam on this site.
So here are the 3 likely main reasons why Passerby chooses to harass others with his constant bible rambling on this site:
1) Jesus commands christians to spread the gospel. (Although most of us who are ex-c's have already heard the gospel message and are very familiar with it).
2) He believes that God will reward him for being persecuted by non-believers. He believes that God will hold him in a high regard.
3) He preaches out of the fear of hell, and is scared to death of his God's wrath according to (Matthew 10:32-33).
Those are 3 of the main reasons why I believe Passerby chooses to stay here and ramble on with his constant christian rambling.
Hi ATF,
Yes, I agree with you. I know this one elderly christian lady who absolutely hates computers. Especially the internet. She claims that it is a tool of the devil, and the internet will one day lead to the end of the world.
Have you ever noticed that it seems like that anytime we start presenting our claims to why christianity is a faulty belief system that after awhile christians start getting angry and all they know how to do is start quoting bible scripture one verse after the other out of anger. It's like they are trying to intimidate us by doing so. However, I am no longer phased by such foolishness.
When christians such as Passerby and Dan Marvin start quoting scripture and using the threats of hell, I now see them as a angry little barking chiauas whose bark is worse than their bite....lol!
ATF Wrote: "I know that for myself, after hearing some new promise-date of his return being met with lame excuses, time and time again, one starts to realize it's all BS"
Well in all honesty even back when I was a christian I never took those predictions serious anytime they claimed they had a date for the return of Christ because it does say in the bible that no man will know that time when he does return, however I agree that they have been saying for the past 2,000 years that Jesus would be back soon, and that all of the signs were evident.
I was told that even back during World War II that many people thought Jesus was coming back really soon. It didn't happen of course.
ATF Wrote: "I think Marc does what he does for one of two reasons".
Funny you would list reasons for why Passerby does what he does. I had just listed 3 reasons in my last post for why he does what he does right before I saw your post on here. Seems great minds think alike eh?....lol!
However, as I prepare to hit the publish button that other post that I left has not appeared yet as it is waiting on approval from WM.
ATF Wrote: "Marc will never seek mental help, as his delusion is so real to him that he'll never see beyond it. Even if he gets glimpses of reality from time to time (from us), his great fear of hell and the wrath of his god upon him, makes it impossible for him to move outside his secure feeling bubble."
You may be right ATF. Although it doesn't require mental help to leave christianity, I do believe some christians have been sucked so far into the christian cult that they do become mental basket cases.
ATF Wrote: "Someone recently said that xtians may even hate their god, but that fear of god's wrath is so strong that they don't dare ignore the xtian god. For them, it feels far safer to just conform to god's rules and hold out hope that heaven awaits them (even if it's only a long shot), than to remove all chances and have to face their lives, and then their own death, totally alone."
That may have been me who made that comment. Yes, you are exactly right ATF. It also goes with what I was saying about how some christians have been sucked into the christian cult further than what others have. I have seen different levels of christian brainwashing.
Some are worse than others. For example you have what is considered to be "Carnal Christians". They are christians who believe in the basic gospel message, however they live more of a worldly life and they don't spend a whole lot of time seeking after God and praying. They just live life, and they don't worry all that much about the way other people live their lives. They are kind of liberal I guess you could say.
Some of the more conservative hardcore christians such as Passerby and Dan Marvin would probably say that the "Carnal Christian" is not a true christian.
Then you have some christians who are just flat out fanatics who go around preaching and trying to force others to conform to their faith. They are often referred to as "Holy Rollers" and "Fanatics".
Some of those same types of "Holy Roller" christians are so delusional that their thinking can be very dangerous and destructive to not only other people, but also to themselves. Most christians like that are usually more charismatic and are associated with denominations such as the Church of God or the Apostolic Church. Some Baptists have been known to be like that, however most baptists are more judgmental and prejudice than anything else.
ATF Wrote: "It's only those who are close to being 'on the fence', where I think we have a chance of reaching them with reason and logic."
I think we might have had one of those come through here the other night as a matter as fact. He presented his reasons for why he believes in the christian message, however he was really quick to back down from others who challenged his beliefs. He claimed he was facing some trials in his life right now, and he didn't talk or act like your typical die hard christian fanatic.
This other christian poster basically said that he was going through some trials in his life right now, and he kind of sounded like he might be kind of pissed off at God, and he might be kind of questioning him about some things, however in the end he still said that he chooses to believe in the christian message, and then he left quietly and did not come back.
I still wonder if he might have been having some doubts about his faith.
“Sorry about what *** wrote, but at least we know where she stands. We are fervently praying the Lord will open her eyes. She doesn’t know her heart is deceitful and desperately wicked. Also Satan is the father of lies and he has been feeding her lies and she has been believing them. We pray she will believe Jesus, who is the way, the truth and the life.”
I suspect that is what you find so sickening--that your mother is trying to turn you against your daughter, esp. when you agree with your daughter and disagree with your mother. Very difficult situation but your daughter has brought the issue out into the open and perhaps it can no longer be ignored.
In living with my own fundamentalist family, I have learned that some things must simply be ingnored. Some people with have sickening, sad and ingnorant idea's such as "you cant be sucessfull if your outside of christ" and condecending attitudes towards those who are diffrent "you know those people worship______ , not god".