Christianity does not care for people -- it wants only to grow itself

Sent in by Shaida

I grew up in a rural area, and everyone went to church. How you felt about god was never discussed, you just went. My family is large, and we care about one another deeply, and the preacher always said that love was a sign of god, so I thought god was wonderful, loving, kind, welcoming, just like family. It was a nice dream.

But adulthood brings challenges, and I saw firsthand, many times, that Christian lives may be no better than "heathen" lives, and that Christians may hurt others WITH and BECAUSE OF Christianity, yet still claim that Christianity is all about love.

I began to think that Christianity was all about itself. It was about replication, not really people, but it hides behind it's so-called brotherly love to propagate itself. My fears were confirmed when my Grandmother died.

She was the most gentle woman, and had 55 descendants - some religious, some not, yet everyone loved her deeply. She was religious, but she never spoke about god to anyone, never pushed it out there. She was human, but a fine human.

My brother insisted that he would organize the funeral, as he was a preacher by that stage. No-one could challenge him, nor did we want to make a scene, we were all very sad. We thought he would know what best to do.

So he organized for a preacher friend of his, who had never met Gran, to do the service. No family spoke. There was no eulogy to speak of. The service was two religious songs and an hour long sermon on how wonderful Jesus was. Gran was only mentioned twice, in passing, and only then to say that she was a faithful Christian. No mention of her love for her children, of her years of craft and her sweet love for her cat, or anything else of the sort. The man ended with a 10-minute prayer and an altar call.

For me, it was the ultimate insult - she was a Christian, and yet her life, which was rich and full, was reduced to nothing but an opportunity to preach this man's own agenda.

My brother was so pleased with himself, and thought he had done a great job in trying to convert the unsaved in our family. Instead, he compounded their grief, including mine.

I realized then that Christianity does not care for people. It wants only to grow itself, because it thinks itself is more important than REAL relationships - like ones with family and friends, LIVING people. Jesus is not living, and he cannot love you.

For me, this is the freedom to have a deep, rich life, not one built on a fairytale and relationship with the imaginary. Real relationships are worth much much more.

28 comments:

Harlequin said...

as a recommendation, I'd have punched the sucker's lights out, citing the time that our Lord pursued the Money Lenders from the Temple...

My deepest sympathies on your loss..

Franciscan Monkey said...

Shaida,

That really sucks that instead of getting to celebrate your Grandmother's life, you had to be subjected to a sermon. A similar thing happened when my step-father died. He was a member of an independent Baptist church. Instead of hearing about his life, we got a salvation message. To top it off, the preacher, knowing that there were Catholic guests at the funeral, intentionally denigrated the Catholic faith in his sermon. Christianity can be so repugnant and petty.

Welcome to the site!

Respectfully,
Franciscan Monkey

Wizened Sage said...

I had a somewhat similar experience a year ago when a brother-in-law died. The funeral was held at a secular funeral establishment, and at the beginning of it the funeral director said that Ken (my brother-in-law) had specified that he wanted a non-religious 'service.' He asked if anyone wished to speak. My brother said a few words first, and then one of Ken's daughters-in-law went to the podium to speak. She talked of Ken for a minute or two and then announced that she would lead us in a prayer. Huh? I was seething and very nearly stood to object, but realized that if I spoke up, in this culture, then I would be the one seen as disruptive and antagonistic.

Ken had clearly left instructions for a non-religious service, but this woman totally ignored his wishes for his own funeral and trotted out the standard sky-god mumbo jumbo. Disgustingly inconsiderate.

Knitterman said...

Christianity, as a movement, grows by promotion, not by attraction ... the ultimate network marketing scheme ... you show up for what you think will be a fun evening and instead get "treated" to some guy drawing circles on an easel pad to show how you talk to 10 people, and they talk to 10 more and they talk to yet another 10 more ... and pretty soon EVERYone is converted.

Yet anyone who's been in network marketing (I have, with several different product lines) knows that the attrition rate means that you can't just talk to 10 ... 8 of them will walk away so you have to talk to more and more.

But in network marketing, to build your down-line they teach you to prey upon people's biggest worry: money. "Don't have enough money? would you like to make more?" And you get sucked in with dreams of large down-lines and residual income and so forth. But most come to realize it's the guys at the top of the pyramid who get the money. Everyone else is just playing the game because they are continually told "it will eventually pay off." In network marketing, it's the attraction of money. In religion, it's about making converts "for the glory of God" and "pleasing God" by personal effort.

Using the occasion of a funeral in order to solicit new converts is the worst of the worst of opportunistic network marketing. It happened at my grandson's funeral as well (he died of SIDS), so along with all the "get right with God because you don't know when you'll meet him in person", there was also "there's a reason this infant was taken, so that you'd be here today to hear this message from god." UGH!

Your conclusion is, imo, correct: Christianity is about itself, not its people.

Anonymous said...

Wizened sage,
I completely agree with you on how hard it is to challenge religious demands at events like weddings and funerals.
It took myself and my parents about 2 yrs to talk to my brother about that funeral service, and even then he was belligerent about us being "ungrateful and disruptive".
I have left very very specific notes about my service...
no wannabe Billy Graham will invent a death-bed conversion for me!
Shaida

Korinne said...

Knitterman,
They said WHAT at your nephew's funeral????!!!
That is absolutely disgusting!
It's made me think though, some Christians think that children are "under the age of reason" so they get automatic immunity and entry to heaven - hence your nephew's death is a plus for them as he is automatically in heaven, whereas if he had lived to be an adult, he might go to hell. Seems like an incentive for abortion and infanticide?
Those christians who believe in "original sin, all need salvation from birth" are just as bad though, by saying that your nephew would automatically go to hell because he was too young to believe on jebus or whatever.
Seems christians just hate babies!

Korinne said...

Knitterman,
Grandson, sorry, it's very early here...

Anonymous said...

I have one general comment to make first: don't confuse the true spirit of "genuine" Christianity with the misanthropic Christians throughout history. If Christians would abide by and live in accord with the original compassionate messages of Jesus, this religion would thrive through the spirit of love. So, it is not "Christianity" which is repugnant and petty and does not care about people, it is, rather, the individual Christians.

I, too, had a similar experience, Shaida. When I attended the funeral of a dear and sweet great aunt, the minister used the occasion to "preach a sermon" without ever referring to the wonderful life my aunt had lived. The funeral was held in a rural Baptist church, and I have never understood why a minister would use such an occasion to preach to friends and relatives who were already believers.
Knitterman said: "But in network marketing, to build your down-line they teach you to prey upon people's biggest worry: money." Yep, I have been there, too (Amway). In Christianity, as practiced by all too many ministers, they prey upon your ultimate worry: your eternal destiny.

Christopher Mac said...

Dr. Jim:

Jesus has never been shown to have existed. There is no evidence that a person named Jesus, or Jesus Christ, was ever indeed a real human being with a real message, let alone one that was unique and that had not been considered by others before him. Considering this, I find it difficult to say that 'Christianity' is even real . . . seeing as how there was never a Christ. This does not change the fact that greedy people have propogated a meme disguised as a mythology in a coordinated effort to create the most wide-spread and successful money-grubbing scheme in human history, and called it Christianity.

In short, yes, it has EVERYTHING to do with Christianity. I have known very kind white supremacists; yet no one will deign to suggest that white supremacy is good because there are a few white supremacists that are kind. We should apply this same thinking to Christians and Christianity. The core of Christianity is not about love: it is about the greatest evil the world has ever seen.

The central theme of Christianity is that you must think a certain thought and behave in a certain way, else be punished for it. This is the core of evil - "others must be like me." It is the ultimate narcissism. That some good people call themselves Christian does not change this fact. That a good person calls themself a white supremacist does not alter the central theme of white supremacy - the xenophobic omnicide of all else that is not white.

We can get into the semantics of what early Christian sects believe, but I really don't care, Jim. You have to show that Jesus existed and that he had a message, otherwise all forms of Christianity are as valid as all other forms.

Shaida:

Thank you for sharing your story. I, too, have had these experiences at funerals - fascinating people with rich lives full of wonder and tales to tell . . . reduced to a sermon about someone else. It's disgusting. I'm happy to see that you broken free from the assimilation of the ChristBorg. Share your story with others, and show Christianity for the mind disease it really is.

Brian said...

DrJim1940 said: "I have one general comment to make first: don't confuse the true spirit of "genuine" Christianity with the misanthropic Christians throughout history. If Christians would abide by and live in accord with the original compassionate messages of Jesus, this religion would thrive through the spirit of love."

Here we go with another "Don't blame it on Genuine christianity, blame it on the so called christian.

You know, we've heard this crap from people like you before, and it has nothing to do with "The individual". People like yourself talk about Jesus and his so called love that is taught in the bible, yet you're just like every other christian (I assume you are a christian) who cherry picks certain verses, but overlooks the rest of the bible. Your God/Jesus is not about love. He's all about manipulation and does not give a damn about people who suffer on this planet. All Jesus cares about is people kissing his rosey butt for him.

Just read further into your bible, and you will find that your God/Jesus is a self-centered, insecured, Jealous God who demands people to follow him or roast in hell. Read in your bible about all of the innocent women and children who were murdered and slaughtered in the name of your God. It is recorded in the bible, so look it up for yourself.

Christianity is nothing more than genuine, "BULLSHIT"!!!!!

So don't come on this site expecting people to be stupid enough to buy into this typical Christian Propaganda. It's all a bunch of bullshit, just like the stupid fucking bible that I wipe my ass with.

Anonymous said...
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Anonymous said...

Shadia Wrote: But adulthood brings challenges, and I saw firsthand, many times, that Christian lives may be no better than "heathen" lives, and that Christians may hurt others WITH and BECAUSE OF Christianity, yet still claim that Christianity is all about love.

You are exactly right Shadia.

Christians hide behind their God anytime they do wrong. They always use the excuse that "Satan made them do it", or "My flesh got in the way". Most christians never take personal responsibility for their own actions.

I honestly can say that I find more love and acceptance from Non-christians, than I ever did around christians. The thing I like about Non-Christians is that you can be yourself. That's true freedom.

Shadia Wrote:
"For me, it was the ultimate insult - she was a Christian, and yet her life, which was rich and full, was reduced to nothing but an opportunity to preach this man's own agenda."

I am so sorry to hear about that Shadia. You are right, it's all about christians promoting their own agenda. It's really sad to see all of this glory and credit given to a mythical being who supposedly existed 2,000 years ago who none of us have ever met in person. It's sad to see a mythical being put ahead of a real and living person who actually existed in real life.

I find it insulting to see people who get robbed of their own contributions to life for the sake of the christian message.

My father is a 79 year old fundamental christian, who is so brainwashed that it is pathetic. He has lost complete control of his family, and he complains all the time about how he gets no respect.

My father lost our respect when he started neglecting his own family and started putting his church ahead of all of us. He treats his church family with more respect than he ever did his own family.

I don't know how many times I have asked my father to spend time with me, only to be told: "I can't because I have to be at church, and I've got to meet with the gideons to hand out bibles, plus I've got a Deacon Meeting to attend".

My dad has put me off all of his life, however when his church calls here asking him for favors, he jumps up and takes off just like that. It sickens me.

I asked my dad how he felt about the fact that his beliefs and decision to follow Jesus is costing him his family, and he claims that he has no regrets, because the bible teaches that we are supposed to put God ahead of our own family. He also says he would do it all over again if he had the chance to do so. I told him that his Jesus was a selfish prick who cared only about himself, and if Jesus really did care, he would not command people to leave and forsake their families to follow him.

Even Jesus was a self-centered individual who cared only about his own personal agenda. As far as his death on the cross was concerned, I see Jesus "So called death" as a joke, and an overblown story considering that he was supposedly "God" and he had the power to transition back to life. There was no real death when Jesus was crucified.

Jesus may have taken a beating, however that beating is nothing compared to the little kid who is ate up with cancer who has been battling for their life for 6 months in a hospital scared to death, and confused. My dad has even had the arrogance to say that Jesus suffered worse than that kid did. Can you believe that shit?

The only thing Jesus did was take a beating and he went to sleep, and woke up 3 days later. That's how I see the death of Jesus.

Anyways, as I was saying about my dad, I know deep down inside he has no peace. He has even said so about how disturbed he is that his family is so divided. He claims that he is paying the price for following his so called precious Jesus.

IMO, people who put Christ ahead of their families should not have kids. I would never put some mythical being ahead of my own family.

My dad also has several health problems. He may not be around for very many more years, and regardless of what he has done I will miss him when he passes away. I dread that day in spite of everything I feel he has done wrong. Regardless of what my dad has done, he is still my dad.

One other thing that I am going to dread about my dad's passing away is his funeral, which will be very christian oriented. I dread having to sit there and listen to all of the christian garbage that will be coming out of the mouths of his preacher and many other christians who go to hus church, along with that awful gospel music. That stuff just makes me sick to my stomach and makes my skin crawl.

Shadia Wrote: "I realized then that Christianity does not care for people. It wants only to grow itself, because it thinks itself is more important than REAL relationships - like ones with family and friends, LIVING people. Jesus is not living, and he cannot love you. For me, this is the freedom to have a deep, rich life, not one built on a fairytale and relationship with the imaginary. Real relationships are worth much much more."

That's what I have been saying all along. Relationships with "Real" and "Living, Breathing" people is all that matters. Not some imaginary invisible man. I found no comfort in a relationship with Jesus. Having a relationship with Jesus is no more comforting than having a relationship with a rock or a tree.

I have found that when times got tough there was no great comforter of great counselor there for me back during my christian days. There was nothing more than deep dark silence. Christianity only put me further into the pit of depression.

Jesus is not real. Anyone who thinks they can have a relationship with a man who supposedly died 2,000 years ago should be on prozac, locked up in a mental institution, and given shock therapy.

Kozi said...

Mandy, thank you so much for posting your story. The thing I regret most deeply about my time as a christian is the separation it put between me and my family, for similar reasons as your Dad has given. I think about that everyday and hate myself for it.

I hope you persevere with your Dad and have some great times together. And perhaps you could stage your own mini-ceremony to remember him in a non-religious way, and take earplugs for the gospel songs.

AtheistToothFairy said...

Mandy Said:
I told him that his Jesus was a selfish prick who cared only about himself, and if Jesus really did care, he would not command people to leave and forsake their families to follow him

----
Mandy, was this something you recently told your Dad?
From our previous conversations about you and your Dad, I hadn't thought you were 'ready' to be this, ummm, assertive with him yet?

>>The only thing Jesus did was take a beating and he went to sleep, and woke up 3 days later. That's how I see the death of Jesus.

Doesn't that boggle one's mind.
How many tens of thousands have suffered far more than this jesus was 'said' to have suffered.
Yet, this few hours of suffering and being 'asleep' for 3(?) days was enough pain&agony to pay the big ticket price for the longest lasting, biggest sin, human-kind has ever committed against gawd.

So let's see, this was the meager price christ had to pay to give all humans a second chance, but if we don't accept christ in our hearts, then OUR price tag is to burn in agony for all eternity.
Yeah, I think god's price-book needs a few 'minor' updates, yes?

>>One other thing that I am going to dread about my dad's passing away is his funeral, which will be very christian oriented.

I've had to attend religious funerals for family members over the years, as most of us have little choice about doing.
Even though none of them were of the fundie or baptist types, most of the funerals were not about the person and their lives/accomplishments, but rather it focused on religious ritual, 'pat readings' from the bible etc..

I can't speak for what cemeteries are like in other area's, but I can tell you that in my area, the very last place I'd ever want to be buried is in a Catholic Cemetary!!
They have a list of NO's, longer than Santa's toy list.
Everything has to conform to their idea of what a cemetery should 'look like' for god.
Perhaps the catholic bible has books within it, that dictate what a cemetery plot has to conform to?

Religion doesn't offer any cures, but it does create a lot of illness in the world


ATF (Who wishes he could avoid stepping inside any church, ever again)

Anonymous said...

ATF Wrote: "Mandy, was this something you recently told your Dad?
From our previous conversations about you and your Dad, I hadn't thought you were 'ready' to be this, ummm, assertive with him yet?"

Hi ATF,

Yes, I told him that just the other day during an argument that I was having with him.

ATF Wrote,
"I can't speak for what cemeteries are like in other area's, but I can tell you that in my area, the very last place I'd ever want to be buried is in a Catholic Cemetary!!
They have a list of NO's, longer than Santa's toy list."

The thought of being buried is bad enough, although we don't know it....lol! It's just the thought of it. Cemetaries give me the creeps anyway.

If you think Catholics are strict, I think Baptists are worse with their list of "Do's & Don'ts".

Anonymous said...
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Knitterman said...

DrJim wrote: " I have one general comment to make first: don't confuse the true spirit of "genuine" Christianity with the misanthropic Christians throughout history."

"Ye shall know them by their fruit."

Christianity is an organization made up of people. Without its members there would be no organization. The organization is known by its people. If Christianity were all it is cracked up to be, the people would be different.

You have to look at the people who are the product of that organization to see what would happens if you fall into their organization. If you don't want to be like one of them, don't get involved with the organization that created them. Ignore the promise, examine the product.

Anonymous said...

Hi Kozi,

Thanks for your kind words. My dad and I get along ok most of the time just as long as we don't discuss politics, religion, and money.

That is what sparks most of our arguments.

My poor dad has not taken a vacation since August of 1991. He does not know how to stop and take it easy. He pushes himself to perform, even though he has been retired since 1987. He claims he does not have the time to take a vacation anymore.

As a result, my dad has had at least one mental burn out which happened back in 2003. It was really sad I remember. A few days after he got out of the hospital, he did not want to go outside, or go anywhere period. He became a prisoner in his own house, and all he would do was sit there and stare at the walls. He didn't want to be bothered by anyone period. He was mentally broken.

One thing about that time period I remember the most is when he kept on saying: "I can't seem to get God to talk to me. What's wrong? Why am I not able to hear from God"?

That was just one year before I walked away from the christian faith. Now when I look back at it, I now see that as a time when my dad was really in touch with reality.

That was a time period when my dad found out just how unreal his God was who he had placed so much faith and trust in over the years. He was right, there was no God there to talk to. That's the only time in his life that he found that out, even though he claims today that God is the one who pulled him out of his mental depression, when in reality it was his doctor, friends, and support from his family that helped him to recover. Not God.

In less than a year, he was back to his old christian self of course. I'm sure his christian associates reprogrammed his mind for him.

As much as I hate to admit this, in all honesty, my dad would probably be better off keeping his beliefs about his God. I really do believe he would just completely give up on life if he did not have his faulty beliefs about his God to lean on. I'm just glad that I have learned not to trust in such a being.

It may be a faulty belief, however if it gives my dad comfort, and if it is the main thing that keeps him going, then I guess he's better off with it then he is without it. I really think he would lose the will to live if he didn't have his christian belief to cling onto. My dad has enormous health problems and the most productive years of his life are behind him. The church is about all he has left besides his family. If my dad didn't have the church to keep him busy he would completely mentally shutdown, and die I do believe as sad as that is.

I think that the church in a way has been a replacement for my dad's career that he retired from 21 years ago. It has kept him going, however it has over consumed his life which is also a bad thing. Even though he's retired, my dad is still a workaholic to this very day. The only difference is that he's a workaholic for his God.

I just hate that he has neglected his family at times for the sake of his belief, and his church. Plus he has mentally enslaved his mind and no longer knows how to sit back and enjoy life.

He thinks Jesus wants him to take on everyone else's problems, and forsake having a life for himself.

People at my dad's church also take advantage of the fact that my dad does not know how to say "NO" to them. They depend on him for quiet a few things when it comes to church business, and due to the fact that my most of the people who go to my dad's church are country bumpkins who don't know a whole lot about business. My dad goes to a small little country church that has an attendance of around 40 to 60 people. He's about the only one who goes there who has a college degree and who has experience in the business world.

In a way the church has become a "Non-Profit" corporation for my dad to run in his last days.

Ryan Scott said...

You'd be very interested in reading this book

http://www.amazon.com/Meme-Machine-Susan-Blackmore/dp/019286212X/ref=pd_bbs_sr_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1200174944&sr=8-2

It's called the Meme Machine and it discusses the various techniques these ideas use to replicate themselves. You are right, religion is about replicating itself, and people's minds are the vessels is uses to do it. Hence religion discouraging birth control, encouraging endoctrination, religious people being altruistic in order to make you feel that there's something good about the religion by extension. Tactics like breaking down the ego, and suggesting that you give up your reasoning faculties. Making you feel guilty for having natural feelings and urges such as the urge to have sex all the time. Having "impure" thoughts. How can a thought be "impure" - its biology doing its thing. Prosteltysing and "spreading the good word".

Religion is a very successful memeplex and this book begins to explore how memes work. Quite readable and an extremely fascinating theory. It takes the gauze from your eyes.

Aspentroll said...

Dr. Jim 1940:

Well, now, I bet you've never had your ass kicked so properly. And justly so, you came in here spreading your
stupid bullshit about your ridiculous beliefs. Did you really think we were all going to run back to the little church on the corner to seek help for our "heathen" way of life?
You obviously haven't picked up on the fact that religions of any sort are a total waste of time and are dangerous to world health.
I'll use Islam as a good reference.

Left of Center said...

This story really hit me...
When my mother died several years ago I had a similar situation. The minister...a fishbelly white gasbag with eyes as hollow as his words, spoke first. He blathered on and on about Jesus and as in your story mentioned my mother only several times. Being the eldest I was next to speak. I thanked the minister and said "...for a minute I thought I was at a funeral for Jesus. But I see that I'm not and now I speak about my mother." (I think the padre would have shot me)

I'm glad I live in a different state, but I wouldn't take it back for a million dollars.

AtheistToothFairy said...

DrJim1940 wrote:
If Christians would abide by and live in accord with the original compassionate messages of Jesus, this religion would thrive through the spirit of love
---
DrJim1940,
Yes DrJim, as an example, if only they would go around killing off fig tree's that refuse to bear fruit when out of season, then they could be just like your loving/compassionate jesus.

You know, a long time ago I thought your jesus was about the spirit of love to.
However, in order to maintain such a conclusion, one must ignore parts of the bible about him.
Now, if one wishes to believe that jesus and god are the same entity, of the same 'mind', then it's so obvious that the OT god was anything but 'loving'.

So tell me DrJim, is the OT god the same as your jesus god, or are they as different in nature as a human father and son can easily be?
Does jesus beg daddy-god to let him have his way with us humans?

I see no way possible that Daddy-god and jesus could be of the same godhead.
That's not to say that your jesus was anything great to speak about, but his father was far more insane than jesus is depicted to be in the NT.

Also, if you were to try and make up a personality profile of your NT jesus, you would land up with him having a Multiple Personatliy Disorder, as he's anything but consistent in his nature. Given that he was said to be god-on-earth, shouldn't he have exhibited an 'even' temperament and consistency in his actions and words?

Just curious to know DrJim.

Oh, and on the off chance you run into any evidence your jesus was a real person, please do let us ex-xtians know. Perhaps because you personally have a good relationship with him, he might give you some proof that he really walked this earth 2000 years ago?


ATF (Who wonders why AEB is being kind of quiet lately?)

Jeff P said...

Shaida: I've lived long enough to go to several of these funerals. At my last significant funeral, (the tragic death of a 16 year old,) the pastor actually had the audacity to read some scripture that said something to the effect of "parents may forget their kids, but the Lord never shall...."

What an absolute crock of shit. And what a thing to say to grieving parents. I'm sure he's forgotten about that funeral and his inspiring scripture long ago.

I've also wondered many times how to challenge the argument of "don't blame Christianity, just try to put up with the un-Christian-like Christians since they are only sinners, etc." I think there's scriptural reference to the fact that, once "saved," the Holy Spirit will reside within you and show you all truth. I would expect, then, that among all the saved people, we'd see one "truth," and the behaviors would follow.

On another site, it was mentioned that there were about 2000 different Christian organizations registered with the IRS. Sounds like lots of different directions from the "indwelling of the Holy Spirit."

When I die, have a beer, watch the Dallas Cowboys kick ass, and tell some raunchy jokes. Burn me and throw my ashes into the nearest flower garden for fertilizer!

Anonymous said...

Jeff P. Wrote: "I've also wondered many times how to challenge the argument of "don't blame Christianity, just try to put up with the un-Christian-like Christians since they are only sinners, etc." I think there's scriptural reference to the fact that, once "saved," the Holy Spirit will reside within you and show you all truth. I would expect, then, that among all the saved people, we'd see one "truth," and the behaviors would follow."

Don't you just love the excuses christians come up with to justify their own irresponsible behavior?

They do make every excuse in the world to cover up for why christianity really does not work.

The real reason why the holy spirit does not come into the lives of these people to change and improve them is because there is no such thing as the holy spirit. It's all one big lie that christians have been spreading for the past 2,000 years now.

People change, because they choose to change. God has nothing to do with it. People have the will and power within themselves to change and improve their lives.

That includes christians also. Any christian who claims that it was "God" who changed them for the better changed only because they found the will power within themselves to change. God didn't do anything.

Anonymous said...

ATF Wrote: "if you were to try and make up a personality profile of your NT jesus, you would land up with him having a Multiple Personatliy Disorder, as he's anything but consistent in his nature."

You could also say that God (aka) Jesus is a Sociopath.

Anonymous said...

Dr. Jim Wrote: "Yep, I have been there, too (Amway). In Christianity, as practiced by all too many ministers, they prey upon your ultimate worry: your eternal destiny."

Dr. Jim,
Although I don't agree with your post about christianity, I can say that I do relate to you when it comes to "Amway".

My bad experience in dealing with MLM was in the form of Amway's sister business called "Quixtar", which is basically "Amway" online.

sillywhispers said...

Your story brought to mind my friend Wayne. He didn't really like to use the word atheist to describe himself because he said it alienated others. So, he called himself a secular humanist and sometimes said he was a Unitarian Universalist, though he was very clear he didn't believe in god(s) or even a higher power.

He worked hard until he retired. He was a nice guy without vices who cared about others. He volunteered at nursing homes. He drove people who could no longer drive themselves. He delivered meals and did other humanitarian deeds. He was a good person.

His estranged family (long story -- I'll skip) dug up some fundamentalist preacher, who never even met Wayne, to give a sermon at his funeral. This guy left no doubt where he thought Wayne ended up. After that, a lady friend told everyone that she knew Wayne had finally accepted Christ before he died. That was probably meant to make everyone feel better.

Wayne died fast of a massive heart attack. He was as much an atheist the day before as he ever had been. The Christians in his life couldn't not accept him as he was. There was no celebration of his life! I wonder why they even bothered having a service. I miss Wayne.

Anonymous said...

Also, very much like religion, professional sports is very much unimportant and a total waster of time. In society, there is a huge meme that replicates itselfs that says sports is very important, follow sports.

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