Pastor BeelzeBOB
sent in by Dan Hurst
I hope this can make it to the readers because I am naming the bully who pastored me and my family for some four years.
The man’s name is Bob N... and he has a web site open to the public (that I'm going to give) so I'm going to assume it's alright for me to call him by name. If not, please find a way to post the web site so your readers can see first hand how a brain-washer operates. He needs to be exposed and probably arrested. The Chick tract "Bad Bob" is rumored to be based off of him. His web site is absolutely perfect ammunition against this particular sect of Christianity and could by itself speak for me. They call themselves "bible-believers" because they hold to the belief that God preserved His word in only one version of the bible......the King James Version. They will fight tooth and nail over it. Some of them even believe that unless you read the KJV exclusively, you will go to hell.
"For a man is saved by faith and faith only comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God and that word is only the KJV!!!" (too bad for the deaf I guess). They are all Baptist and there are two camps within this sect: the Peter Ruckman followers (most extreme) and the Jack Hyles types. Both of these men have their own web sites also. Of course, as fate would have it, BeelzeBOB N... – as I like to call him – was associated with the Ruckman camp.
I went to a bible institute in my early twenties (I'm 36 now) that leaned strong Ruckman, strong KJV, strong separation from the world, strong man rules the home, and strong Dispensations (which is a belief that only the Pauline epistles apply to Gentile Christians.....I know......goofy). Now, there were only a handful of churches in S.E. Michigan that were associated with my seminary and only BeelzeBOB's was close to home. The rest were at least an hour away and "Bless God", I had to go to church three times a week and so BeelzeBOB's was the most practical.
I am from Pontiac, Michigan. A city that could very much be compared to Detroit. Pretty rough. I was saved when I was 16 years old through a Baptist/Hyles type preacher. He found me hanging out on the streets one night and given I was a youth from a broken home, a drop out, and already a father, I needed some direction. AND, given that I'm an American and live in a culture that instills "doing right" with God and religion, it was inevitable.
I managed to hang in the faith for about a year until my hormones got the best of me and I fell from grace and was pretty much, believe it or not, ostracized from the church (kind of ex-communicated). This is rare in today’s modern churches (for obvious reasons...$$$$), but not in the KJV camps. It is very regular and public (them that sin rebuke before all...)
I went back to the street mentality at 17 and continued that way until I was 22 years old and, because of my irresponsible behavior, found myself wanting to change for the better (my children mainly), and, again, doing what’s right, in our culture, is associated with God. So back to church I went.
I staggered through a few trying to find "the one" God would have me to join. Enter BeelzeBOB. I was recommended to his church in 1993 by a "friend" and when I went I was awed by this pastor. Mind you, I had barely been back in the fold when I met BeelzeBOB and was still quite carnal/worldly/a babe in Christ. Why this preacher was cool!!!! Hell, he even cussed from the pulpit – my kind of guy. Fag hater to boot. His favorite saying was "I may of done a lot of things in my life but I never sucked no D--K." Man he was hip.
BeelzeBOB was from Detroit, a burly imposing ex-biker to boot. He carried this intimidating persona with him and would remind you every chance he got. One time at a camp meeting in Ohio, he was telling me about another guy who was having issues with his wife submitting. Big bad Bob's antidote....make sure she "sucks your d--k." Sounded like good doctrine to me. Actually, by this time (about 2 years a member) I had grown weary of his antics. I was growing in Christ (or morals) and had no desire to glory in my past or hang with those who did. Bob had actually used his seedy past-conversion to get him where he was (shock preaching/see what God can do) and wasn't planning on quitting anytime soon. And see, again, BeelzeBOB was associated with my seminary and I wanted so much to finish that I dealt with it.
While my family and I submitted to his teachings for four years or so (for my seminary's sake) many, and I mean many, verbal abuses took place. Big Bob uses the classic abusive behavior where you beat somebody up and then be nice to them and then beat them up and be nice over and over again 'til they're, like an abused wife, unable to think clearly. I was a mess. He literally calls you an idiot, ignorant, stupid, a wuss, whore, slut, fag, and many other derogatory terms in a very offensive angry manner, FROM THE PULPIT, and he has the support of hundreds of Ruckman type churches to back him which makes him look God inspired.
Actually, the bible, especially the O.T. supports his hatred of mankind too and language (ever read the spread dung on your face verse?). When I had finally had enough and was making my slow withdraw from services here and there, he, in essence, put a curse on my family; saying "there are some here thinking about leaving this church, the place where God would have them to be, mind you, you will be out of the will of God and it will be me preaching your kids funerals, or visiting them in jail."
It's hard to describe how mixing both a dictating God with a dictating man of God screws up one's head and I'll never get over it. I'm still pissed. Recently, BeelzeBOB caught wind that my oldest son is gay (I still know some of the members). And I know him well enough to know what he's thinking. He's basking in it!!!! On his web site he has a video of him preaching and he begins to describe, what seems to be, me. I had left and gone back to his church three times in those four years (for obvious reasons). Right after he mentions me, it’s edited. I wonder what he said.
If one of my kids were to die.....I don't know what I would do knowing he'd get some sort of fulfillment out of it instead of, like any unsaved human would do, grieve with me. I would just love to use his own website and words to expose his wretchedness and your website has a lot of hits. Not to mention the verbal abuses and corporal punishments I in turn implemented on my own home during such an influence and experience.
I really would like to kick his ass, and might some day yet. I eventually left the Baptist crowd and joined the Presbyterian bunch for a while toward the end. Eventually, believe it or not it was the bible that started to show me the non-existence of Jesus. Exegesis!!!!! (Allowing the bible to speak for itself and not reading into it my personal understanding or outlook on life and God, which 99.9% of Christians do.)
For example, miracles; nothing in scripture "explicitly" states they ceased to exist. If anything Jesus said Christians would do greater works than He did. Where are they? HM-MM? If you are a Christian you will have already reasoned away the potency of this verse with your understanding of God as seen through reality and not through the scripture. You'll downsize the definition of a miracle or you may even find a little verse in I Cor 13 that says "when that which is perfect is come (supposedly Jesus) then that which is in part will be done away" and ascribe it to miracles.
What ever floats it for ya baby.
Also, my own experiences and church history finally done me in I am now an agnostic and good at it. I am well versed in the scriptures and now in reason and whenever I can I like to give Christians fits. Please make a link to BeelzeBOB's site so he too can get his feathers ruffled. If you go to it listen to the sermon "Don't be defiled" it's one of his most recent and an hour and twenty minutes long; another classic strategy to brain-washing. It is disturbing and backed by hundreds if not thousands of Baptist churches in our country. Its not isolated or the exception. You almost think its a staged mockery of how bad it could be....but trust me...its real. www.victory-baptist.net/
Dan Hurst
email: djh9449 at yahoo dot com
Fenton
MI
USA
Joined at 16
Left at 31
Was: Baptist and Presbyterian
Now: Agnostic
Converted because: No direction and this is what our culture promotes
De-converted because: Reality
I hope this can make it to the readers because I am naming the bully who pastored me and my family for some four years.
The man’s name is Bob N... and he has a web site open to the public (that I'm going to give) so I'm going to assume it's alright for me to call him by name. If not, please find a way to post the web site so your readers can see first hand how a brain-washer operates. He needs to be exposed and probably arrested. The Chick tract "Bad Bob" is rumored to be based off of him. His web site is absolutely perfect ammunition against this particular sect of Christianity and could by itself speak for me. They call themselves "bible-believers" because they hold to the belief that God preserved His word in only one version of the bible......the King James Version. They will fight tooth and nail over it. Some of them even believe that unless you read the KJV exclusively, you will go to hell.
"For a man is saved by faith and faith only comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God and that word is only the KJV!!!" (too bad for the deaf I guess). They are all Baptist and there are two camps within this sect: the Peter Ruckman followers (most extreme) and the Jack Hyles types. Both of these men have their own web sites also. Of course, as fate would have it, BeelzeBOB N... – as I like to call him – was associated with the Ruckman camp.
I went to a bible institute in my early twenties (I'm 36 now) that leaned strong Ruckman, strong KJV, strong separation from the world, strong man rules the home, and strong Dispensations (which is a belief that only the Pauline epistles apply to Gentile Christians.....I know......goofy). Now, there were only a handful of churches in S.E. Michigan that were associated with my seminary and only BeelzeBOB's was close to home. The rest were at least an hour away and "Bless God", I had to go to church three times a week and so BeelzeBOB's was the most practical.
I am from Pontiac, Michigan. A city that could very much be compared to Detroit. Pretty rough. I was saved when I was 16 years old through a Baptist/Hyles type preacher. He found me hanging out on the streets one night and given I was a youth from a broken home, a drop out, and already a father, I needed some direction. AND, given that I'm an American and live in a culture that instills "doing right" with God and religion, it was inevitable.
I managed to hang in the faith for about a year until my hormones got the best of me and I fell from grace and was pretty much, believe it or not, ostracized from the church (kind of ex-communicated). This is rare in today’s modern churches (for obvious reasons...$$$$), but not in the KJV camps. It is very regular and public (them that sin rebuke before all...)
I went back to the street mentality at 17 and continued that way until I was 22 years old and, because of my irresponsible behavior, found myself wanting to change for the better (my children mainly), and, again, doing what’s right, in our culture, is associated with God. So back to church I went.
I staggered through a few trying to find "the one" God would have me to join. Enter BeelzeBOB. I was recommended to his church in 1993 by a "friend" and when I went I was awed by this pastor. Mind you, I had barely been back in the fold when I met BeelzeBOB and was still quite carnal/worldly/a babe in Christ. Why this preacher was cool!!!! Hell, he even cussed from the pulpit – my kind of guy. Fag hater to boot. His favorite saying was "I may of done a lot of things in my life but I never sucked no D--K." Man he was hip.
BeelzeBOB was from Detroit, a burly imposing ex-biker to boot. He carried this intimidating persona with him and would remind you every chance he got. One time at a camp meeting in Ohio, he was telling me about another guy who was having issues with his wife submitting. Big bad Bob's antidote....make sure she "sucks your d--k." Sounded like good doctrine to me. Actually, by this time (about 2 years a member) I had grown weary of his antics. I was growing in Christ (or morals) and had no desire to glory in my past or hang with those who did. Bob had actually used his seedy past-conversion to get him where he was (shock preaching/see what God can do) and wasn't planning on quitting anytime soon. And see, again, BeelzeBOB was associated with my seminary and I wanted so much to finish that I dealt with it.
While my family and I submitted to his teachings for four years or so (for my seminary's sake) many, and I mean many, verbal abuses took place. Big Bob uses the classic abusive behavior where you beat somebody up and then be nice to them and then beat them up and be nice over and over again 'til they're, like an abused wife, unable to think clearly. I was a mess. He literally calls you an idiot, ignorant, stupid, a wuss, whore, slut, fag, and many other derogatory terms in a very offensive angry manner, FROM THE PULPIT, and he has the support of hundreds of Ruckman type churches to back him which makes him look God inspired.
Actually, the bible, especially the O.T. supports his hatred of mankind too and language (ever read the spread dung on your face verse?). When I had finally had enough and was making my slow withdraw from services here and there, he, in essence, put a curse on my family; saying "there are some here thinking about leaving this church, the place where God would have them to be, mind you, you will be out of the will of God and it will be me preaching your kids funerals, or visiting them in jail."
It's hard to describe how mixing both a dictating God with a dictating man of God screws up one's head and I'll never get over it. I'm still pissed. Recently, BeelzeBOB caught wind that my oldest son is gay (I still know some of the members). And I know him well enough to know what he's thinking. He's basking in it!!!! On his web site he has a video of him preaching and he begins to describe, what seems to be, me. I had left and gone back to his church three times in those four years (for obvious reasons). Right after he mentions me, it’s edited. I wonder what he said.
If one of my kids were to die.....I don't know what I would do knowing he'd get some sort of fulfillment out of it instead of, like any unsaved human would do, grieve with me. I would just love to use his own website and words to expose his wretchedness and your website has a lot of hits. Not to mention the verbal abuses and corporal punishments I in turn implemented on my own home during such an influence and experience.
I really would like to kick his ass, and might some day yet. I eventually left the Baptist crowd and joined the Presbyterian bunch for a while toward the end. Eventually, believe it or not it was the bible that started to show me the non-existence of Jesus. Exegesis!!!!! (Allowing the bible to speak for itself and not reading into it my personal understanding or outlook on life and God, which 99.9% of Christians do.)
For example, miracles; nothing in scripture "explicitly" states they ceased to exist. If anything Jesus said Christians would do greater works than He did. Where are they? HM-MM? If you are a Christian you will have already reasoned away the potency of this verse with your understanding of God as seen through reality and not through the scripture. You'll downsize the definition of a miracle or you may even find a little verse in I Cor 13 that says "when that which is perfect is come (supposedly Jesus) then that which is in part will be done away" and ascribe it to miracles.
What ever floats it for ya baby.
Also, my own experiences and church history finally done me in I am now an agnostic and good at it. I am well versed in the scriptures and now in reason and whenever I can I like to give Christians fits. Please make a link to BeelzeBOB's site so he too can get his feathers ruffled. If you go to it listen to the sermon "Don't be defiled" it's one of his most recent and an hour and twenty minutes long; another classic strategy to brain-washing. It is disturbing and backed by hundreds if not thousands of Baptist churches in our country. Its not isolated or the exception. You almost think its a staged mockery of how bad it could be....but trust me...its real. www.victory-baptist.net/
Dan Hurst
email: djh9449 at yahoo dot com
Fenton
MI
USA
Joined at 16
Left at 31
Was: Baptist and Presbyterian
Now: Agnostic
Converted because: No direction and this is what our culture promotes
De-converted because: Reality
Comments
I read your post today and found it both interesting and disturbing.
Unfortunately, your pastor is a bad teacher and very poor example of a
Christian. True Christians love God above all and love one another as
Jesus commanded.. that includes gays. I don't know where your
ex-pastor found the authority to condemn anyone to hell. The truth is,
God does not condemn anyone to hell. We can only condemn ourselves and
that includes gays. God loves everyone. However, we are given freewill
to choose our destiny. We will ultimately face judgement day and the
choices we make on earth will determine whether we spend eternity in
Heaven or hell.
I think we place too much emphasis on the physical church (the
building). The church will not save you.. ONLY your faith in the belief
that Jesus paid for our sins in full with His blood on the cross.
Believe in Him and obey. I'm not talking just Sunday but every day of
our lives in what we think, say, feel, and do.
I (in the name of Jesus) invite you to the true church (body of Christ).
By that, I mean, become a true believer in Christ. You already know
scripture now live as Christ wanted. You don't need that pastor or any
physical church to tell you what you must do. Jesus set the example
that we are to follow.. now follow Him.
Please don't let this pastor affect your attitude towards salvation or
have any influence over your destiny.
I hope you accept the invitation to return to the true church. Again,
you have the Word of God, all you have to do now is believe in Christ
and obey.
May God bless you in Jesus name,
Earl
Hey Earl,
I really do appreciate your concern and I appreciate your trying to shepherd me back into the fold with warmness. But its not christians or associations that turned me away friend....nor was it YOUR Jesus. The Jesus preached from the pulpit in most of todays churches really is a good guy. Unfortunately, the biblical Jesus is quite different. I think I made it clear enough in the post that it was exegesis that ended my faith in christianity. There are still some unhealed scars that people inflicted on me and BeelzeBobs website pulled the band aids off, thats all. I go days and even weeks unconcerned about what christianity is and was....the same way you go long periods without thinking about what Hindus or Buddists believe and do. If you have the ability to read the bible and only grasp about 3% of it, the stuff that fits your personal theology, great! I wish I could, to be honest. But youre not going to convince me that BeelzeBob doesnt reflect the biblical God in all reality. There are literally billions of people burning in hell today, according to your theology, for what ever reasons they may be, whether they chose to go or were predestined, and they beg and cry night and day, for escape, to the God who sustains their existance by his power and WILL, and He turns the deaf ear to them. "Sorry, cant help you....you brought it on yourself!" and then adds "Whats that Earl?........you need me to sell your house?! OK!" You probably already know this stuff and have found a way to make 70 years of human ignorance and rebellion warrant eternal TORMENT and damnation. You probably, like a good Arminian, are saying, "They chose to go there, they had a chance!" Well, lets think about this. If my 2 year old son got near a hot stove I, as a finite loving father, would warn him not to. Lets say I actually made a way, like Jesus did supposedly, for him to avoid burning himself altogether by simply turning the stove off. Lets just say that, one day, I witnessed (like an omnipresent god) him turning the stove on and proceeding to get in it and fry himself to extinction. When the cops finally came, backed by lawmakers backed by the people like you (who have moral standards beyond those of England in the year 1356), and asked me what happened, I would reply "I told him not to do it, but, as you see, he didnt listen." What would happen to me Earl? What would you think of me as a parent or even as a human being? You would condemn me. I would be going to jail. Same standard applied to God? NOOOOOO! Hes GOD! See, in comparison to my 2 year old, I am God. Hes just a dumb little 2 year old, you could liken him to finite man. Earl, because I love my son, as long as I have breath, he would never make it into the stove. I would stop him....period! NO MATTER WHAT! And if he was in a oven screaming for me, I would rescue him....period! And I'm just a sinful man with a depraved nature that knows nothing of true love like the Author of it. Hogwash!!!! By the way, NO two year old is going to CHOOSE to get into a oven to fry. Its just not gonna happen, humans are smarter than that. Just like I'm not going to jump into a bonfire in this summer, I'd have to be a lunatic. If I truly believed there was a hell, I'd get saved. I don't!!!! Thats the problem.....not BeelzeBob. Do me a favor Earl, ask your pastor at church to teach on Matt 19:12 next Sunday during sunday school to the whole congregation (kids and all). See what he says.......then you'll see you have a pieced together Jesus; one that fits your personality and concept of life. Didnt mean no harm, but you did mention hell in your letter and thats a pet peeve of mine.
Dan
The Internet and the Scriptures
The Internet and the Scriptures
It was not included in the Canon of Scripture, but is still believed to be by many...
The True Origin of the Internet
In ancient Israel, it came to pass that a trader by the name of Abraham Com did take unto himself a young wife by the name of Dot. And Dot Com was a comely woman, broad of shoulder and long of leg. Indeed, she had been called 'Amazon Dot Com.'
And she said unto Abraham, her husband, "Why dost thou travel far from town to town with thy goods when thou can trade without ever leaving thy tent?"
And Abraham did look at her as though she were several saddle bags short of a camel load, but simply said, "How, dear?"
And Dot replied, "I will place drums in all the towns and drums in between to send messages saying what you have for sale and they will reply telling you which hath the best price. And the sale can be made on the drums and delivery made by Uriah's Pony Stable
(UPS)."
Abraham thought long and decided he would let Dot have her way with the drums.
And the drums rang out and were an immediate success. Abraham sold all the goods he had at the top price, without ever moving from his tent.
But this success did arouse envy. A man named Maccabia did secret himself inside Abraham's drum and was accused of insider trading.
And the young man did take to Dot Com's trading; as doth the greedy horsefly take to camel dung. They were called Nomadic Ecclesiastical Rich Dominican Siderites, or NERDS for short.
And lo, the land was so feverish with joy at the new riches and the deafening sound of drums that no one noticed that the real riches were going to the drum maker, one Brother William of Gates, who bought up every drum company in the land. And, indeed, did insist on making drums that would operate only with Brother Gates' drumheads and drumsticks.
And, Dot did say: "Oh, Abraham, what we have started is being taken over by others."
Yea, verily, as Abraham looked out over the Bay of Ezekiel, or as it came to be known "eBay" he said, "We need a name that reflects what we are."
And, Dot replied, "Young Ambitious Hebrew Owner Operators."
"YAHOO," said Abraham.
And that is how it all began. It wasn't Al Gore after all.
I listened to some of Pastor BeelzeBOB's Don't be defiled sermon. That's one truly disturbing guy. I took a few minutes to pray for him to the mother/father/creator God. If that gives you the idea that my view of a deity is nontraditional you'd be quite correct. Believe it or not I'm grateful to have had the opportunity to hear this. It gives me perspective on some of the twisted beliefs that exist in our time.
BTW, I read a book recently (The Laughing Jesus) that makes a convincing case that both the New and Old Testaments are works of fiction. The author's agenda is to promote gnosticism and the book had me reading some of the gnostic gospels. It's interesting reading, but aimed at an ancient audience.
So Dan, there are many faith traditions, from what you experienced to atheism. Frankly, human spirituality is a big tent. In my experience once you get out from under the umbrella of fear that most religions use to hook you (fear of God, the Devil, and Hell) you can look to spirituality for positive messages. Others have posted that you don't need a church and I believe that's really true, but a positive mutually supportive community can be very helpful. I wish you well.
makes an idiot out of us all!
"laughing Jesus reader",.....Tim Freke and Peter Gandy have two other great books,..."The Jesus
Mysteries" and Jesus,(a Pagan God )and the Goddess Sophia ".
DAN
I found this page on their site:
http://www.victory-baptist.net/fightback.htm
And this interesting line about why the KJV is God's word:
"9. No one has ever proven that the KJV is not God's word."
Uhhh somebody there needs to learn a little bit about logic and the concept of proving something. Just because you can't (or haven't) proven something doesn't mean that by default it's true. Uggh...
Jeff