Finding Truth and Meaning without Christianity
sent in by Jason
Tonight as I am sitting at home after a somewhat strenuous yet satisfying and gratifying day at work I feel inspired by my joy and happiness, which I should let you know DOES NOT come from faith in any "god" whatsoever to let everyone know that religion will make you sick. My desire is that many Christians will read this post and that they may feel the same way that they make everyone on this site feel when they come here to argue that their religion is the "truth". This site has been created for the healing of ex-Christians, not as a debate forum to argue whether or not Christianity is true.
Many of us on this site are truly ex-Christians who have felt some sort of hurt from fundamental Christianity. People practice many forms of Christianity ranging from a simple faith to the extreme of fundamental Christianity which the bible describes and calls for. This site has helped me tremendously since my deconversion about a year and a half ago. Keep up the good work exchristian.net. Christians will continue to come to this site to try and "re-save" everyone. Debate with a Christian and it will only prolong the healing from this very controlling religion.
I learned a lot about life from Christianity, however fundamentally this religion is wrong and will control your life and mind. Life is best lived when you get to know yourself, love yourself, and love this life, which can be difficult at times. Religion is NOT a prerequisite for being happy or finding meaning.
To you simple minded Christians, I am not saying that a god or creative force does not exist, however I am saying that the bible is nothing more than a collection of fairy tales that cannot stand the test of scrutiny. For the reasonable modern day person that has had minimal exposure to the bible, they have not one reason to believe that the bible is accurate. NO PROOF = NO TRUTH = NO FAITH! Evangelizing not necessary.
Reason can be the only accurate means for discovering truth. One cannot use reason when coming to belief in any religion.
Yes, I do have faith. Faith that the truth is out there and to this day has been undiscovered. In our life time we may never know the truth, but like I said earlier one does not need religion to find meaning and be happy.
MD
Joined: 21
Left: 25
Was: Southern Baptist
Now: No Labels, however if I had to choose one - "DEIST"
Converted because: To find meaning and happiness in a time of despair.
De-converted because: No evidence to validate Christianity.
Tonight as I am sitting at home after a somewhat strenuous yet satisfying and gratifying day at work I feel inspired by my joy and happiness, which I should let you know DOES NOT come from faith in any "god" whatsoever to let everyone know that religion will make you sick. My desire is that many Christians will read this post and that they may feel the same way that they make everyone on this site feel when they come here to argue that their religion is the "truth". This site has been created for the healing of ex-Christians, not as a debate forum to argue whether or not Christianity is true.
Many of us on this site are truly ex-Christians who have felt some sort of hurt from fundamental Christianity. People practice many forms of Christianity ranging from a simple faith to the extreme of fundamental Christianity which the bible describes and calls for. This site has helped me tremendously since my deconversion about a year and a half ago. Keep up the good work exchristian.net. Christians will continue to come to this site to try and "re-save" everyone. Debate with a Christian and it will only prolong the healing from this very controlling religion.
I learned a lot about life from Christianity, however fundamentally this religion is wrong and will control your life and mind. Life is best lived when you get to know yourself, love yourself, and love this life, which can be difficult at times. Religion is NOT a prerequisite for being happy or finding meaning.
To you simple minded Christians, I am not saying that a god or creative force does not exist, however I am saying that the bible is nothing more than a collection of fairy tales that cannot stand the test of scrutiny. For the reasonable modern day person that has had minimal exposure to the bible, they have not one reason to believe that the bible is accurate. NO PROOF = NO TRUTH = NO FAITH! Evangelizing not necessary.
Reason can be the only accurate means for discovering truth. One cannot use reason when coming to belief in any religion.
Yes, I do have faith. Faith that the truth is out there and to this day has been undiscovered. In our life time we may never know the truth, but like I said earlier one does not need religion to find meaning and be happy.
MD
Joined: 21
Left: 25
Was: Southern Baptist
Now: No Labels, however if I had to choose one - "DEIST"
Converted because: To find meaning and happiness in a time of despair.
De-converted because: No evidence to validate Christianity.
Comments
That apparently proves Allah's existence to Anonymous.
Be afraid Anonymous! The afterlife for Christians is not so pretty... Islamic Hell is at least as bad as Christian Hell, from what I've heard.
With Christians in Islamic Hell and Muslims in Christian Hell, let's hope that the two Gods might consider a swap transfer.
"Maybe your laughing but you won' t be when Jesus says I never knew you away from me."
"you better pray that you do come back with your tail between your legs because you don't want to experience hell."
Tabitha,
you're not the first and you won't be the last, but I'm willing to reply anyway.
I don't know about you, (but I have no tail,) but I'd always learnt not to accept being blackmailed. Only encourages the blackmailer. In this case jealous God and Jesus, who obviously need me to accept them - or Him (referring to the three-unity doctrine).
I've always wondered why God only has the power to send you to Hell AFTER you're dead. Is God so powerless during life that he can't toss directly into Hell every single unbeliever and blasphemer the minute they don't accept him? I mean, omniscient God already knows I'm going to keep disbelieving in him to the very end, why doesn't he just start grilling me already? Saves him time. Else either omniscience or free will is a joke.
It seems God's power only works in the mysterious AFTER-death period which not even a scientist knows anything about for sure. Inventing horrors for what people don't know just so that they'll waste their life on religion must be among the worst forms of terrorism.
But you obviously believe in Hell, Tabitha, so just tell me, where am I going? Greek Hades or Tartarus, Gehenna - Jerusalem's garbage dump where my corpse will never be buried anyway, or visiting the Norse goddess of the underworld, Hel? Or maybe I'm going to Sheol?
In any case, you're never going to Paradaiza. Not unless you believe in the Persian god(s). You do know that Paradaiza's an ancient Indo-Iranian word and Persian concept right? It entered Hebrew and from there we got the idea of Paradise.
See you in Sheol, Tabitha, because according to Jewish beliefs (before Persian influence), that's where all the dead go. Sounds boring, but if that's how it is, we'll all just have to accept it.
God will be pissed that your wasting your time here. We were all saved! Each and everyone.
How interesting,I use to love sharing these interesting facts with christians but I have come to the conslusion that it is useless as it doesnt matter how much fact you provide them they are just not interested and some of them are just plain mentally ill.
Personally I understand the christian bible to be a book based on older myths, how did i come to this conclusion i read the bible and i continue to read the older myths.
Recently I was in a situation where a christian invited me over for dinner and then tried to get me to go to his church, I explained to him the origin of heaven and hell and how the christians borrowed this concept from persian zoroastrianism and how before jesus there where many godmen mithra,horus,attis with the same narrative eg born a virgin , 12 apostles, performed miracles, birthday 25 dec it's not an original story.
After telling him all of this for a brief moment i was feeling pretty smug thinking he will now see reason and maybe start to question his religion or go and ask his minister some questions about what i have been telling him , but he replied
where any of these other godmen
the father the spirit the holy ghost and started waving his hands in the air like a madman , it was at that moment that i realised this guy is delusional and probally mentally ill, he is just not using that logical part of the brain.
The next day I saw a guy standing at the train station yelling at people that the end of the world was nigh , i stopped to observe him he was ranting and you could see he was obviously mentally ill,
3 days later a man was standing in the mall with a loud hailer screaming "are you a winner or are you a sinner" over and over as if he was on speed, closer observation revealed he too was mentally ill.
So i have been going easy on christians lately as I believe a lot of them are not well...
Anonymous 2
I think christians coming here to reconvert us should be reminded of Hebrews 6:4-6
"For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, and have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame."
It applies here better than anywhere else...
But, if he/she or other xian trolls were serious about wanting to know why ex-christians are so turned off by the lies and abuse they formerly suffered in the cult, they'd at least stay around long enough to read some of the testimonies of ex-christians posted on this site and check out the forums.
Oh, I forgot, then they might actually LEARN something - and that's just too frightening for someone who has abandoned the ability to think. Never mind.
I can also identify with that. I lost my best friend to indoctrination as well, and I have told myself that my friend is dead. What exists in her place is not very pretty.
Dan (Who prays that the holy virgin will be nice to you, as she has been to me, a humble agnostic)
This is FUNNY, and so true about real christians.
You know what I think is funny? That so many people claim to be christians and they really don't even know what a christian is. I would be willing to bet that many of the so called christians that come to this site don't even know that they are not real christians.
I too have lost a dear friend to religion. She was an independent, intelligent, confident, tenacious woman who fell to the brainwashing.
She had dyslexia (sp?) and literally fought her way through high school and then college to become a dental hygenist. I helped her a lot with her papers and studying since she had such a hard time writing and reading. She got a fantastic job, made good money, had a great apartment, nice furnishings, nice clothes, and took care of herself. We took vacations together several times and had some great times together.
Anyway, a new hygenist was hired in her office and was a moron, I mean, mormon. The only explanation for what happened is total brainwashing. Within about 6 months time, my friend converted to moronism and relocated with her hygenist friend to Missouri.
In the matter of two more months she had met and was marrying another moron. She gave up the job and the education she worked so hard for to have, at last count, six rug rats, become a boring housewife, live in an isolated trailer in a very rural area, had to take to shoping at garage sales and second hand stores and devote herself to her loser husband who teaches part-time for the church for a pittance (note the garage sale, second hand store shopping, and trailer living). [Meanwhile I'm sure the church leaders are raking in the dough.]
The last time I saw her she was a hollow shell of the woman she used to be. She knew nothing of current events, popular culture, and had completely lost her independence and confidence. She hadn't had a haircut in years, no longer wore make-up, dressed like a rag muffin and had the mental capacity of a rug.
It killed her parents when she left everything she had for such a pitiful existance. It killed me because I lost a friend.
Now, you xians out there are going to say money isn't everything and there's nothing wrong with living in a trailer, and maybe she's happy and at peace and loves her kids, yada, yada, yada.
I guarantee she is NOT happy. She doesn't even have an identity. She is no longer the person she used to be. She might as well be a house plant. And she could have had a husband and children with her career and a nice house and clothes and furnishing that weren't second hand or garage sale finds.
No one will ever convince me that she did not throw her life away.
"Religion is harmful to children and other living things."
But for now I will be ordering one from the FFRF that says:
"Imagine no religion" and has a rainbow on it.
Hi, Ben, Brigid, Boom, Dave8 and all. Lorena, welcome and keep up the great posts.
I got your answer pea for brains. Wake up, take a look around. I don't know about where you live, but where I live rarely throughout the day do I come across and "real" christians. People either don't believe it because they are too sane or like many of us here who have foolishly walked the road of faith and come to find out that the harder you try and the deeper you get into it, you come to realize that it's all in your imagination. Most of the so called Christians who claim to believe have never studied the religion critically or they are too stupid and just believe everything that anyone tells them. It's not too hard to see the truth when you are willing to take a step back and question it all.
Hi MQ, once again, it appears Paul (Harvey) needs to tell the rest of the story. There were exactly "zero" christians, to include "zero" Jewish Christians prior to the theoretical birth of a man named Jesus. The Jews and "their" Hebrew Tanakh, (also known as the Hebrew Old Testament to future Christians) "never" mentioned the name "Jesus", once. Thus, 'all' Jews were not Christian, prior to the first mention of the name Jesus who lived between 8-2 BCE– 29-36 CE according to most scholarly theologians.
The earliest mention of a Jesus, according to most scholarly theologians is in the Book of Mark, which is purported to be written ~65-80 CE.
Onto the use of the word "Christian". A "Christian" is associated by many, to denote a follower of Jesus Christ's teachings. Now, its obvious that Jesus didn't publish his autobiography, or "any" other documentation to point followers towards his "teachings" (we'll forego the mainstream Protestant Christian oral tradition that Jesus was sent here to pass on the good news, and forgot to write anything down).
So, from the day of Jesus' theoretical birth, until he died, there is "zero" personal and historical guidance from a Jesus Christ himself. So, without that "original" doctrine, documentation, or guidance how does one assert that they are a "true" follower of "Jesus Christ", e.g. Christian?
Perhaps, from the "birth" of a theoretical Jesus, until his "death", there was a "true" Christian sect that pubslished his teachings during his lifetime. Lets, see, the Hebrew Old Testament/Tanakh doesn't mention him, and neither do either versions of the Jewish Talmud, what other writings of his era do we have to use with his name? None...
So, it seems rash to say there were "followers" of Jesus Christ (Christians), prior to Jesus Christ taking a stance and providing teachings. Now, when do we finally get information on Jesus, from Saul, also known as Paul, Paulus, and Saint Paul the Apostle, who lived according to many scholarly theologians between 3 – 67 CE. Paul did not preach, according to most scholars (using the bible as a reference), until ~35 years old. Amazing, how close in "age", Paul, is to Jesus... I regress...
So, until the "teachings" of Jesus were "taught" by Paul, there were no identifiable Christians as they had nothing to follow, period. In short, there were no "true" Christians prior to the preaching of Paul, based on historical documentation, to include the "bible". The "only" true Christians, that could be hypothesized, are the ones who lived in the era Jesus did, and the ones who followed his oral teachings, everyone since his death, are wannabe Christians with zero guidance.
When Paul started preaching and submitting Jesus as the savior who fulfilled the Jewish Old Testament prophesies, (which obviously never came to pass), many other religious sects at the same time-frame taught differently; portraying Jesus with a different nature, authority and philosophy.
MQ, Christians didn't exist pre-Christ era, and when Paul brings them up, or he is introduced in the Gospel of Mark, there are many other sects teaching different views of Jesus. Just because the name Jesus was introduced in many of the early religious sects, doesn't mean they were Christians. Jesus may be discussed in Satanic religion, does that make them Satanic Christians?
Therefore, if you want to state that there are Pauline Christians, or those who followed the teachings of Paul, then fine, but that doesn't make Pauline Christians... the one and only "true" Christian sect, it just means a person follows the teachings prescribed by a specific person, in this case - "Paul". It would be just as accurate to say to a Pauline Christian, that they are aren't "Christians"... they are more accurately; "Followers of the Apostle Paul", who just so happens to present his subjective views on the theoretical teachings of Jesus. His form of religious teaching is no more accurate than any other subjective view, that was being taught in that era, and there were many views that didn't hold that Jesus was divine - to include the Jews, Ebionites, Essenes, etc.
So, when you state that there are many people who "believed in Christ, stopped believing in Christ, and then believed in Him again", I think it is misrepresenting the truth. The "truth", is that there were/are people who believed in Paul's testimony, stopped believing in Paul's teachings, and then believed in Paul's testimony again - based on their readings of his non-original letters/epistles or by the influence that others around them have provided. If a person accepts and believes "Paul's" teachings, then, a person accepts Pauls' view that Jesus Christ was a savior god.
It appears C.S. Lewis has regained his "faith" in subjective humanity, or at least "one" or "many" person(s), from whom he trusts to give him totally religious objective "truth" (illogical). C.S. Lewis has just changed the target of his "faith" from one human to another, and his "faith", has "never", and "never will be", "directly" attributable to a god named Jesus - no matter how many times he flip-flops in his religious journey.
A doctor told a glossy eyed child that he had performed many operations but has yet to find thoughts. The child beamed with thought, and replied; "I have found many christmas presents under the christmas tree every year, but I have never ever seen Santa Clause."
Faith in the context for which you used it can be replaced with "confidence", however Faith in God or religion, is "belief without any reason to do so". Not the same as confidence. Faith in the context of religion is akin to fraud.
Good luck,
Fox
"did the pastor touch you in a "dirty place "
I find the above comments to be quite vulgar and i would never
direct them at any human being.
Did they come from a Hindu,Buddhist,Pagan,Atheist,Spiritualist...No a Christian ..
And then they have the audacity to ask what was it that turned you away from christianity....
anon 2
Wow, big surprise. There's more than one interpretation for the 'true' meaning of a bible verse!
God's at it again, being all ambiguous with his 'holy word' - you know, that thing we need to get right since our eternal fate is at stake...
What sense would 'while' make in the passage anyway? Hmm, should I say 'Oh, Derr' or WTF?
Of course, the fact that every translation has written 'since' and only includes 'while' as a footnote shows which one is considered most accurate.
It seems like a typical christian tactic of having your cake and eating it too...
So, the verse is meant to scare us, but not to actually let anyone off the leash?
Yes, accept the standard, accepted interpretation, until it doesn't give you what you need, then you've got the emergency loophole interpretation to get you out of it.
Having tasted of the 'holy spirit' and now saying it was actually the 'devil' (at least the closest thing I know to it), is that unforgiveable enough for you?
Have I burned the bridge behind me yet?
What do I have to do to shake this lolly wrapper off my fingers?
mq59: "In any case, there are an awful lot of people who believed in Christ, stopped believing in Christ, and then believed in Him again (CS Lewis, for example)."
Yes, but did they actually get accepted into heaven? or did they hear the old, "Depart from me, I never knew you..." line?
"I had some ado to prevent Joy and myself from relapsing into Paganism in Attica! At Daphni it was hard not to pray to Apollo the Healer. But somehow one didn't feel it would have been very wrong - would have only been addressing Christ sub specie Apollinis." - C.S.Lewis
Doesn't sound like he's finished putting his Christ to an open shame yet.
Maybe after he's finished doing a proper job of publicly shaming Christ then he'll be acceptable to heaven again?
First, please click the "other" radio button and type a pseudonym.
Now, as to your question: How do I explain the beginning of the universe? Simple answer: I don't know.
Now, I assume you explain the beginning of the universe as "God did it!" If so, then your answer and mine are exactly the same. Because, if I ask you, "Yes, but HOW did God do it?" you'll have to answer "I don't know."
See? Ultimately, your answer does nothing for making us all less ignorant. But retreating into "God did it!" has the potential of extending and preserving ignorance. In fact, for over ten centuries after Christianity came into to power, a pale of ignorance blanketed the world: the Dark Ages.