I feel like I have some 'splaining to do
From Brother Jeff
I wrote the following in 2003 for posting to my original religionisbullshit.com website. I am sharing it again now in an attempt to relate what happened to me when I pulled a successful site off the web and suffered a reconversion to my former beliefs. Thankfully I recovered and am now seeking to mend any broken bridges that occurred as a result of that time period.
I have not ever kept the fact that I have Bipolar Disorder a secret. I have openly acknowledged it on this site on numerous occasions. I was diagnosed with this mood disorder, also known as Manic-Depressive illness, in February of 1998, but the illness has affected me from the age of ten, with the symptoms becoming markedly worse and very troublesome in my teens, and the affliction continues to cause many problems in my life now, at age 37. Bipolar Disorder has a strong genetic component to it, but in my particular case, my story regarding it really begins during my birth. I was born in November of 1965.
At the time, the Community Hospital there in the town that I was born in was a good one and I know that the medical staff meant to care for my mother and I well, but as it worked out the nurses on duty were inexperienced, as was the doctor. He had just begun his practice. I was born breech, and had a very difficult birth. Pressure put on my skull during birth caused damage to my right temporal lobe that eventually caused a seizure when I was ten years old. There is no question that I should have been delivered by C-Section, and I would be beyond any doubt if I was being born today, but things happened as they did and being angry about the poor decisions of the nurses and doctors in attendance at my birth 37 years ago serves no useful purpose now.
I had that seizure during the summer of 1976. My life changed permanently that night. I went to bed the night that it happened a happy, reasonably well-adjusted kid. I woke up a couple of hours later in the hospital a changed and unhappy, insecure young man. Bipolar Disorder, already present in my genetic makeup, emerged and there is no doubt that by my early teens I was a full-fledged Bipolar individual. In 1976, the medication of choice for seizure control was Phenobarbital. I was on it for six years. The seizure itself and the Phenobarbital changed my personality markedly. I was a troubled kid, and my behavior showed it. By the age of 16, I had grown out of the need for anti-seizure medication. I was taken off of the stuff, but it is the opinion of my parents that my withdrawal from Phenobarbital was progressed too quickly, and it wasn't long before I headed for the bottle. Substance abuse is very common in people who suffer from mental heath issues.
By the age of 17, I was a full-fledged teenage alcoholic. My problems with alcohol lasted until the time of my diagnosis as Bipolar in 1998. I have not drank since that time. Other than alcohol, my drug of choice was marijuana and I smoked a LOT of it in my junior and senior years in high school and off and on throughout my twenties.
Bipolar Disorder has no cure. It's symptoms can be managed, but living with the illness is still a living hell most of the time. I would not wish this affliction on my worst enemy – not even the Talking Snake! Medications help, but they do not cure. I almost never am in a manic phase of the illness although I experience a few of the traits of mania such as difficulty sleeping and "racing thoughts" from time to time. What troubles me on a daily basis is depression. I am ALWAYS depressed - how depressed is just a matter of degree. I do have periods of time when I feel basically "normal" but even those times I am well aware of the underlying depression that is still there. I have been clinically depressed for so many years that I have no idea what "normal" feels like.
Bipolar people tend to wear their emotions on their sleeves. We feel our emotions INTENSELY, and that is certainly true of me. My emotional life is an intense one, whether what I am feeling is pleasant or not.
Now, to get to the point of this post. At the time of my recent brief but intense reconversion to Christianity, I was going through a very bad Bipolar episode. I was very depressed. My financial situation, which has always been a struggle had become critical, and that is what led up to my move to Alaska to stay with my Dad. The move itself was very stressful, as big changes in life usually are. I was severely emotionally stressed at the time, and I needed RELIEF.
I did not expect to ever return to Christian faith in any form ever again, but what happened to me does have a perfectly rational explanation, of course, in spite of my earlier insistence that it did not and therefore it had to be god. I was indeed wrapped up in a lot of HATE, ANGER, and BITTERNESS towards Christianity, and I did need to let go of it, and I have done so to a large degree compared to where I was but I would be lying if I claimed that I was totally free of those negative emotions. I'm not, but I am much freer from them and being obsessed with them than I was before. But, there was no miracle and no mythical deity involved in what happened to me. I was aware that I was taking things too far in some of my posts and also aware that the way I was treating Christians wasn't right. I don't apologize for mocking ridiculous beliefs, but the attitude with which I did that was indeed wrong and I knew it, and that was starting to really bother me. In addition to the bad Bipolar stuff going on, I was experiencing a lot of guilt and considering a lot of things about my site and what I was doing with it. It particularly bothered me, considering the nature of some of my posts, to discover that Junior High School-aged kids were visiting my website. This website is definitely for a mature and critically thinking adult audience. I do have an important message - a critical one - in my opinion, but I don't want to be responsible for exposing children to content that is inappropriate for them to see. I have not ever used an excessive amount of profanity on my website, and I don't do so in my normal, everyday speech. It's just not a large part of my vocabulary and it doesn't need to be. But, the language on this site will be cleaner- although not necessarily profanity-free in the future, as will any pictures that I decide to post. For a long time, I failed to take into consideration the fact that I might have some younger viewers and that I need to bear that in mind.
So, I had Bipolar issues going on, guilt issues going on, questions to myself about my own personal character in some areas going on, and all of this stuff was snowballing on me and coming to a head, and like I said I had reached the point where I had to have RELIEF, or the pressure cooker that was my emotional life was going to blow, and probably not in a healthy way. At the time, I was getting dangerously depressed and I was not coping with life very well at all. I did have a spiritual experience that I cannot deny although I know it didn't have anything to do with the Bible God or Jesus any more than it had anything to do with Allah or Mohammed, for example. What did happen to me was a catharsis which I interpreted in religious terms at the time.
In the past, when I couldn't handle things, I self-medicated with alcohol and drugs. I have also self-medicated with religion for years. The only times that I felt "normal" and like I "belonged" was when I was drunk, stoned, or high on god and radically religious. None of those things - alcohol, drugs, or religious belief - are necessarily bad things when handled in a responsible and healthy manner. But, when taken to extremes, all of those things can be very destructive. That's what has happened and does happen with me. I self-medicate in a variety of ways when the emotional suffering caused by my Bipolar illness becomes too much for me to cope with. Back in my 15 years of extreme Fundamentalism, I was in and out of church. When I wasn't attending church and obsessing with my religion and how RIGHT and TRUE my beliefs allegedly were, I was drinking heavily and using drugs. ALL of it - the alcohol, drugs, and religion - were self-medicating coping strategies that I used to try to deal with the emotional pain and issues in my life. I have come a long way in the last five years or so in learning how to deal with my Bipolar illness in healthier ways. I have particularly made progress in the last year.
I made some changes to my diet that have brought a great deal of relief from Bipolar symptoms. I no longer feel a need or desire to turn to substance abuse for relief, and that in and of itself is a wonderful reality. But, sometimes my coping skills are still very inadequate. Although I didn't think through the reality of the situation at the time, I did what I always do when I have a Bipolar crisis. I self-medicated. I turned to religion, and I did indeed find temporary relief. I knew the whole time deep down inside that what I was professing to believe was bullshit that I couldn't rationally or factually defend but at the time, I NEEDED to believe again until the crisis was over.
Karl Marx said that religion is the opium of the people, and he was right. I am aware that he did not say that in relation to using religion as a coping device for mental illness, but it still applies. I used the opium of religion to cope with emotional issues in my life that had become unbearable.
All of that said though, I want to stress the fact that I am well aware that people who don't suffer from mental health and addiction issues can and do use alcohol and the less dangerous recreational drugs without experiencing terrible problems in their lives due to the use of those substances.
The same is true of religion. Religious belief, although no religion is literally true, does serve a positive role in the lives of many people, as does healthy Spirituality outside of the structure of organized religion. I do not deny that there can be and are healthy forms of religious/spiritual belief. What I have tried to accomplish and what I hope I have accomplished in this post is to relate some very personal realities about me and my life and the Bipolar illness that I suffer from, and its role in my recent brief return to religious belief.
This was not an easy post for me to write since it is rather personal in some respects. I know it was rambling, but I put a lot of thought into what I wanted to say and I hope this helps folks to understand my recent changes in belief and why that happened and worked out as it did. So, I submit this with the hope that this information will bring greater understanding of me as an individual and the struggles that I have in my life with this Bipolar illness, and also I hope it will bring a greater understanding and awareness of Bipolar Disorder and the suffering that it causes in the lives of those afflicted with it - suffering so intense and unpleasant that it caused me to turn to a belief system that I know to be untrue and that is obviously and provably untrue in my desperate need to find relief from my emotional suffering at the time.
OK, that was 2003. This is now – early 2008. What I would like to do is explain what happened with my original religionisbullshit.com site and my religionisbullshit.org site. In mid-2004, I had grown so burned out on my site and so afraid that it was a negative thing that I really honestly thought that I was ready to shut it down and be done with it – and that’s exactly what I did in spite of good advice from several good friends to the contrary. I have deeply regretted my decision to shut down my original site ever since then. I was so sure in July 2004 that I was done with my site that I turned my domain name over to a friend.
In early 2005, I went back online with a new RIBS site, but grew frustrated because I wasn’t experiencing the success I had enjoyed with my original site, and I was still having struggles with my bipolar illness. This led to an unfortunate history of taking my site on and offline several times over the course of a couple of years. I wasn’t and I am not currently having a struggle over whether I believe in Christianity or not. I was experiencing bipolar episodes that were really troublesome to me, and I was experiencing frustration at the lack of success of my site. And both of those things combined led to the history of taking my site on and offline.
Again, I deeply regret my actions, I can’t undo what happened, but I learned from it. I am moving ahead with new fresh ideas and some good old fashioned humor! I know that only time will prove it, but my current www.christianityisbullshit.com site is online and will remain so for the foreseeable future. I love doing it and I love entertaining folks and stomping fundies, and I can’t imagine NOT doing my site. I am really dedicated to exposing the fallacies, lies and absurdity behind religion – all while putting giving the reader a chuckle first!
My health now is much better than it was a few years ago. My bipolar illness is much better controlled than it used to be, and I’m better educated about it now than I was before.
I know this has been long, but I appreciate your time in reading it. Thanks and “Glory!”
I wrote the following in 2003 for posting to my original religionisbullshit.com website. I am sharing it again now in an attempt to relate what happened to me when I pulled a successful site off the web and suffered a reconversion to my former beliefs. Thankfully I recovered and am now seeking to mend any broken bridges that occurred as a result of that time period.
I have not ever kept the fact that I have Bipolar Disorder a secret. I have openly acknowledged it on this site on numerous occasions. I was diagnosed with this mood disorder, also known as Manic-Depressive illness, in February of 1998, but the illness has affected me from the age of ten, with the symptoms becoming markedly worse and very troublesome in my teens, and the affliction continues to cause many problems in my life now, at age 37. Bipolar Disorder has a strong genetic component to it, but in my particular case, my story regarding it really begins during my birth. I was born in November of 1965.
At the time, the Community Hospital there in the town that I was born in was a good one and I know that the medical staff meant to care for my mother and I well, but as it worked out the nurses on duty were inexperienced, as was the doctor. He had just begun his practice. I was born breech, and had a very difficult birth. Pressure put on my skull during birth caused damage to my right temporal lobe that eventually caused a seizure when I was ten years old. There is no question that I should have been delivered by C-Section, and I would be beyond any doubt if I was being born today, but things happened as they did and being angry about the poor decisions of the nurses and doctors in attendance at my birth 37 years ago serves no useful purpose now.
I had that seizure during the summer of 1976. My life changed permanently that night. I went to bed the night that it happened a happy, reasonably well-adjusted kid. I woke up a couple of hours later in the hospital a changed and unhappy, insecure young man. Bipolar Disorder, already present in my genetic makeup, emerged and there is no doubt that by my early teens I was a full-fledged Bipolar individual. In 1976, the medication of choice for seizure control was Phenobarbital. I was on it for six years. The seizure itself and the Phenobarbital changed my personality markedly. I was a troubled kid, and my behavior showed it. By the age of 16, I had grown out of the need for anti-seizure medication. I was taken off of the stuff, but it is the opinion of my parents that my withdrawal from Phenobarbital was progressed too quickly, and it wasn't long before I headed for the bottle. Substance abuse is very common in people who suffer from mental heath issues.
By the age of 17, I was a full-fledged teenage alcoholic. My problems with alcohol lasted until the time of my diagnosis as Bipolar in 1998. I have not drank since that time. Other than alcohol, my drug of choice was marijuana and I smoked a LOT of it in my junior and senior years in high school and off and on throughout my twenties.
Bipolar Disorder has no cure. It's symptoms can be managed, but living with the illness is still a living hell most of the time. I would not wish this affliction on my worst enemy – not even the Talking Snake! Medications help, but they do not cure. I almost never am in a manic phase of the illness although I experience a few of the traits of mania such as difficulty sleeping and "racing thoughts" from time to time. What troubles me on a daily basis is depression. I am ALWAYS depressed - how depressed is just a matter of degree. I do have periods of time when I feel basically "normal" but even those times I am well aware of the underlying depression that is still there. I have been clinically depressed for so many years that I have no idea what "normal" feels like.
Bipolar people tend to wear their emotions on their sleeves. We feel our emotions INTENSELY, and that is certainly true of me. My emotional life is an intense one, whether what I am feeling is pleasant or not.
Now, to get to the point of this post. At the time of my recent brief but intense reconversion to Christianity, I was going through a very bad Bipolar episode. I was very depressed. My financial situation, which has always been a struggle had become critical, and that is what led up to my move to Alaska to stay with my Dad. The move itself was very stressful, as big changes in life usually are. I was severely emotionally stressed at the time, and I needed RELIEF.
I did not expect to ever return to Christian faith in any form ever again, but what happened to me does have a perfectly rational explanation, of course, in spite of my earlier insistence that it did not and therefore it had to be god. I was indeed wrapped up in a lot of HATE, ANGER, and BITTERNESS towards Christianity, and I did need to let go of it, and I have done so to a large degree compared to where I was but I would be lying if I claimed that I was totally free of those negative emotions. I'm not, but I am much freer from them and being obsessed with them than I was before. But, there was no miracle and no mythical deity involved in what happened to me. I was aware that I was taking things too far in some of my posts and also aware that the way I was treating Christians wasn't right. I don't apologize for mocking ridiculous beliefs, but the attitude with which I did that was indeed wrong and I knew it, and that was starting to really bother me. In addition to the bad Bipolar stuff going on, I was experiencing a lot of guilt and considering a lot of things about my site and what I was doing with it. It particularly bothered me, considering the nature of some of my posts, to discover that Junior High School-aged kids were visiting my website. This website is definitely for a mature and critically thinking adult audience. I do have an important message - a critical one - in my opinion, but I don't want to be responsible for exposing children to content that is inappropriate for them to see. I have not ever used an excessive amount of profanity on my website, and I don't do so in my normal, everyday speech. It's just not a large part of my vocabulary and it doesn't need to be. But, the language on this site will be cleaner- although not necessarily profanity-free in the future, as will any pictures that I decide to post. For a long time, I failed to take into consideration the fact that I might have some younger viewers and that I need to bear that in mind.
So, I had Bipolar issues going on, guilt issues going on, questions to myself about my own personal character in some areas going on, and all of this stuff was snowballing on me and coming to a head, and like I said I had reached the point where I had to have RELIEF, or the pressure cooker that was my emotional life was going to blow, and probably not in a healthy way. At the time, I was getting dangerously depressed and I was not coping with life very well at all. I did have a spiritual experience that I cannot deny although I know it didn't have anything to do with the Bible God or Jesus any more than it had anything to do with Allah or Mohammed, for example. What did happen to me was a catharsis which I interpreted in religious terms at the time.
In the past, when I couldn't handle things, I self-medicated with alcohol and drugs. I have also self-medicated with religion for years. The only times that I felt "normal" and like I "belonged" was when I was drunk, stoned, or high on god and radically religious. None of those things - alcohol, drugs, or religious belief - are necessarily bad things when handled in a responsible and healthy manner. But, when taken to extremes, all of those things can be very destructive. That's what has happened and does happen with me. I self-medicate in a variety of ways when the emotional suffering caused by my Bipolar illness becomes too much for me to cope with. Back in my 15 years of extreme Fundamentalism, I was in and out of church. When I wasn't attending church and obsessing with my religion and how RIGHT and TRUE my beliefs allegedly were, I was drinking heavily and using drugs. ALL of it - the alcohol, drugs, and religion - were self-medicating coping strategies that I used to try to deal with the emotional pain and issues in my life. I have come a long way in the last five years or so in learning how to deal with my Bipolar illness in healthier ways. I have particularly made progress in the last year.
I made some changes to my diet that have brought a great deal of relief from Bipolar symptoms. I no longer feel a need or desire to turn to substance abuse for relief, and that in and of itself is a wonderful reality. But, sometimes my coping skills are still very inadequate. Although I didn't think through the reality of the situation at the time, I did what I always do when I have a Bipolar crisis. I self-medicated. I turned to religion, and I did indeed find temporary relief. I knew the whole time deep down inside that what I was professing to believe was bullshit that I couldn't rationally or factually defend but at the time, I NEEDED to believe again until the crisis was over.
Karl Marx said that religion is the opium of the people, and he was right. I am aware that he did not say that in relation to using religion as a coping device for mental illness, but it still applies. I used the opium of religion to cope with emotional issues in my life that had become unbearable.
All of that said though, I want to stress the fact that I am well aware that people who don't suffer from mental health and addiction issues can and do use alcohol and the less dangerous recreational drugs without experiencing terrible problems in their lives due to the use of those substances.
The same is true of religion. Religious belief, although no religion is literally true, does serve a positive role in the lives of many people, as does healthy Spirituality outside of the structure of organized religion. I do not deny that there can be and are healthy forms of religious/spiritual belief. What I have tried to accomplish and what I hope I have accomplished in this post is to relate some very personal realities about me and my life and the Bipolar illness that I suffer from, and its role in my recent brief return to religious belief.
This was not an easy post for me to write since it is rather personal in some respects. I know it was rambling, but I put a lot of thought into what I wanted to say and I hope this helps folks to understand my recent changes in belief and why that happened and worked out as it did. So, I submit this with the hope that this information will bring greater understanding of me as an individual and the struggles that I have in my life with this Bipolar illness, and also I hope it will bring a greater understanding and awareness of Bipolar Disorder and the suffering that it causes in the lives of those afflicted with it - suffering so intense and unpleasant that it caused me to turn to a belief system that I know to be untrue and that is obviously and provably untrue in my desperate need to find relief from my emotional suffering at the time.
OK, that was 2003. This is now – early 2008. What I would like to do is explain what happened with my original religionisbullshit.com site and my religionisbullshit.org site. In mid-2004, I had grown so burned out on my site and so afraid that it was a negative thing that I really honestly thought that I was ready to shut it down and be done with it – and that’s exactly what I did in spite of good advice from several good friends to the contrary. I have deeply regretted my decision to shut down my original site ever since then. I was so sure in July 2004 that I was done with my site that I turned my domain name over to a friend.
In early 2005, I went back online with a new RIBS site, but grew frustrated because I wasn’t experiencing the success I had enjoyed with my original site, and I was still having struggles with my bipolar illness. This led to an unfortunate history of taking my site on and offline several times over the course of a couple of years. I wasn’t and I am not currently having a struggle over whether I believe in Christianity or not. I was experiencing bipolar episodes that were really troublesome to me, and I was experiencing frustration at the lack of success of my site. And both of those things combined led to the history of taking my site on and offline.
Again, I deeply regret my actions, I can’t undo what happened, but I learned from it. I am moving ahead with new fresh ideas and some good old fashioned humor! I know that only time will prove it, but my current www.christianityisbullshit.com site is online and will remain so for the foreseeable future. I love doing it and I love entertaining folks and stomping fundies, and I can’t imagine NOT doing my site. I am really dedicated to exposing the fallacies, lies and absurdity behind religion – all while putting giving the reader a chuckle first!
My health now is much better than it was a few years ago. My bipolar illness is much better controlled than it used to be, and I’m better educated about it now than I was before.
I know this has been long, but I appreciate your time in reading it. Thanks and “Glory!”
Comments
Also, I had a very short reconversion almost a year ago. I was dating a hot girl who broke up with me when she found out that I was a skeptic. She was very pretty, very fun, and had an awesome boob job, so I figured I would give my "old time relgion" another whirl to see if I could get her back! I tried to believe, but during that one month of going back to church every Sunday, my mind cringed every time I heard a preacher spout out the same old nonsense. I didn't get the girl back, but it just goes to show that other factors can be involved in a person's decision to embrace a certain set of religious beliefs!
Thanks again for sharing your story, I'll be sure to check out your site.
Gabe
Hang in there, buddy! I know it's rough. I've had other friends with bipolar disorder, and I know it makes life very difficult. I enjoy your site and I visit it quite frequently. Just keep in mind that you have lots of friends behind you.
Gabe,
Back in '89 I dated a Mormon girl for a while (I had deconverted in '79). I never attempted to believe, but she was a hot babe and I was kind of curious about the Mormons anyway. So I went to about five meetings and bailed. It was crash and burn with the babe.
In '95, a similar thing happened with a hot Baptist babe. This time I stuck it out for three months - went to church every Sunday with her, still impervious to the Christian message. It was eventually crash and burn with her, too.
In '98, I married a superstitious (ghosts, fortune telling, inauspicious dates, etc.)Chinese woman, who later joined the Seventh Day Adventists. We later divorced.
In '06, I married another superstitious Chinese woman (many Chinese are - it's their culture). I deal with it by making bets (the Chinese love gambling, too). If she says that she's too afraid to take out the garbage because she's afraid of ghosts, I'll tell her that if she sees a ghost, I'll give her twenty bucks. It's been two years and she has yet to win a ghost bet.
I see you've fallen for the "hot babe religion bait" more than I have! But I must admit, the Mormon babe would have been very difficult for me, I don't know if I could handle those boring Mormon church services AND no coffee! Even a Baptist babe would be difficult, unless she was a member of one of those moderate Baptist churches. I'm thinking about visiting a large United Methodist Church near my house, the hot Methodist babes usually don't take their religion very seriously!
I can never thank you enough for your open, from-the-heart post.
I was born bridged, too. And by age two, I'd had tens of seizures--or so they tell me.
The Christian bullshitters wanted to convince me that Jesus could change me, but he couldn't. Because he doesn't exist and because, maybe, my brain was damaged at birth. I need to research that further.
Thanks again!
L
After reading your post, I am convinced that deep down inside you still believe and that you are still a christian who is back slidden.
You mainly rant and poke fun at God because of what all has happened to you. You blame him for your illness, and hardships, however I will let you know that I too am bipolar, and have done the same thing to God that you are doing.
I too have cussed God for allowing my life to be a mental hell, because it doesn't seem fair, but at the same time I know deep down inside that Jesus exists.
And now you show up, telling us you "know" Jesus exists.
I accept that your life experiences may have led you to believe this, which is an entirely different matter. But knowledge? That's pretty strong language, considering that we're dealing with your subjective religious experience and not with testable, objective facts.
And why is it so difficult for you to accept that Jeff has come to a different conclusion than you? I think it quite rude of you to come in here and attempt to redefine him in your own image.
Glory!
No, I am not backslidden, and I do NOT believe. I am an apostate. I walked away from the faith because after a great deal of study and thought I realized that Christianity is not true.
I poke fun at god and at ridiculous religious beliefs because it's fun to do! Glory!
As for your belief that an Invisible Magically Undead Man named Jesus is real and living in the sky, well, you're the crazy one, not me. I challenge you to provide ANY evidence that Jesus is real. Good luck!
When I was a Christian, I prayed many times to be healed, but in 15 years it never happened. You can take your allegedly "real" god and your allegedly "real" jesus and shove them up your ass!
Glory!
"When I was a Christian, I prayed many times to be healed, but in 15 years it never happened."
"I poke fun at god and at ridiculous religious beliefs because it's fun to do! Glory!"
Your words speak for themselves. You poke fun at God because God did not heal you, and you are pissed off because of it. You are mad at God, and becoming a so called "Atheist" is your way of trying to get even with God, and hurt him back, because God hurt you.
I know, because I am just like you. I am a reflection of you, and it might as well be me who wrote that post. The difference is that I recognize this, and you don't.
Brother Jeff:
"I challenge you to provide ANY evidence that Jesus is real. Good luck"
Can you do the same Jeff? Can you provide any evidence that "Jesus Is Not Real", besides the fact that you were not healed by him for being Bi-Polar?
Good luck to you also.
Christians are like people with Tourettes, they get an uncontrollable urge to speak. It's like a tic, you saw B. Jeff's story and you couldn't stop yourself from vomitting out some rhetoric.
It all seems so silly. You say god exists yet god doesn't bother to heal anyone even though in the bible it says god has this power and will heal all who ask. So silly.
Christians have so many excuses and safety nets to keep them in their religious prison. "your angry" thats an excuse. What is wrong with being "angry" about something- exactly what? Sometimes anger helps a person to see an abusive situation clearly and make a positive change for the better. Christians have so many fears regarding normal human emotional reactions to situations. For instance, what if a man is abusing his wife- beating her, verbally abusing her- and she gets *gasp* angry and that anger gives her the motivation she needs to leave. Now lets say that christianity is the abusive husband and Jeff is the wife. What you just said to Jeff was, "you shouldn't have left your abusive husband, you only did it because you were angry." Well, good for Jeff for making a positive out of a negative, and getting out of an abusive religion such as christianity.
Madame M
This is how most people like Brother Jeff operate: "Jesus I will believe in you just as long as you heal me, give me what I want, etc, etc.......However if you don't do what I ask you to do I will tell you to go fuck yourself and I will turn my back on you and declare war on you".
That is how it works most of the time. I know, because I've done it, and I recognize exactly what Brother Jeff is doing.
This is so much like me. Don't worry Jeff, I too have called Jesus everything from a self-centered asshole to a lying son of a bitch.
You're not alone. Jesus understands why we cuss him.
"I know, because I am just like you. I am a reflection of you, and it might as well be me who wrote that post. The difference is that I recognize this, and you don't."
Brian, you are not Jeff. Do you have difficulty just taking him at his word as he explains his own personal experience? You have had a different experience, but your experience is not the same as his.
He said he walked away, and he gave his reasons. Where do you find the gall to dispute him?
I walked away, too. I am not angry at God. I AM angry at those who took advantage of my youth and convinced me there was a God. I am angry at believing them and then waiting for so many years for God to actually show up, or do something, or be real. I'm angry at the fact it took so many years to realize it wasn't true, make me feel like so many years wasted. Like waiting for a bus that never showed up, I realized there wasn't a bus, and I walked away. I am angry at people (even complete strangers) who deny my experience and say I'm just angry at God, that I'm rebellious, that I'm still a "beleiver". No, I'm not. Neither is Jeff, as he so very clearly has stated.
I am not angry at God because there's no God to be angry at. Getting angry at a God who doesn't exist is just as stupid as waiting for a bus that doesn't come. And I consider it privilege to help others realize there's no bus coming so they don't waste as much time as I did.
Maybe you don't like it that others walk away, or that others have an experience different from yours. So what? What if someone said you aren't really a Christian at all? You wouldn't like people denying your reality; don't pretend you know other people's reality.
"This is so much like me. Don't worry Jeff, I too have called Jesus everything from a self-centered asshole to a lying son of a bitch.
You're not alone. Jesus understands why we cuss him"
Soooo........Is this a new approach to witnessing, and winning souls for Christ?
What in the world are churches teaching chrisitans these days?
Brian, your comments are just too funny. They are so funny that I am going to have to spell this completely out:
ROLLING
ON
THE
FLOOR
LAUGHING
MY
ASS
OFF!!!!!
Yeah, Jesus is fucking asshole and a liar. He screwed me over too, and I'm pretty goddamn mad at him myself, but ya know what? He still loves me, and he loves you although Jesus is a fucking asshole and a son of a bitch.
Please, accept Jesus as your savior although he is a lying asshole, and he really does not heal anyone in real life, but still accept Jesus as your lard and personal savior, because it is the right thing to do although he is a lying, self-centered asshole.
"I am angry at people (even complete strangers) who deny my experience and say I'm just angry at God, that I'm rebellious, that I'm still a "beleiver". No, I'm not. Neither is Jeff, as he so very clearly has stated."
"You wouldn't like people denying your reality; don't pretend you know other people's reality"
And you think you know Jeff so well, and you know his reality?
Ok, if I am not qualified to know what I am talking about, and I do not know Jeff's situation what makes you think that you are?
Let me ask you a question Ray. Are you Bi-Polar, and did you ask God to heal you when he wouldn't do it? I see a lot of similarities in what Jeff is saying and what all I have went through with being bi-polar also. I relate to this guy. His reasoning sounds a lot like my kind of reasoning and the way I reacted when Jesus would not heal me from being Bi-Polar. I have suffered from being Bi-Polar for over 20 years now just so you know, however I have never lost complete faith in Jesus although I have cussed him and questioned him many times.
So don't you set there and tell me that my experience is different than his either.
I poke fun at ridiculous religious beliefs exactly the reason I said I do - because it's fun!
I am not mad at god. Being mad at a non-existent being would be a complete waste of my time and emotional energy.
I am an ATHEIST because I have realized that there is NO evidence for the existence of your god or anyone else's.
God did not hurt me. God cannot do anything due to the fact that he doesn't exist. I was hurt by being led to believe falsehoods for 15 years of my life.
I know, because I am just like you. I am a reflection of you, and it might as well be me who wrote that post. The difference is that I recognize this, and you don't.
I am a reflection of no-one, and you are certainly NOT a reflection of me. I am my own person. As for you writing my post, that's just BULLSHIT!
Can you do the same Jeff? Can you provide any evidence that "Jesus Is Not Real", besides the fact that you were not healed by him for being Bi-Polar?
Easily. Visit my website and READ and EDUCATE YOURSELF. But the burden of proof is actually on you to prove that Jesus IS real. And I want to make clear to you what is plainly obvious to everyone else here - I did NOT walk away from the faith just because god didn't heal me. I walked away because after a great deal of study and thought I came to the realization that my once cherished religious beliefs were not true.
Fuck you, you arrogant asshole! I was a sincere Christian for 15 years of my life and that's hardly the "way I operate". I have made it clear why I left the faith, and it actually had very little to do with my not being healed of bipolar disorder by god. And for the record, I am not "at war" with your god. Your god doesn't even exist!
Yeah Bro Jeff's words did speak for themselves, problem is you left them out. let's see why Jeff said he left shall we?
What Jeff really wrote: "I walked away from the faith because after a great deal of study and thought I realized that Christianity is not true."
huh, see, nothing 'bout being mad, or jesus not healing, nuh huh, no clearly it says he STUDIED and realised it was NOT TRUE.
So, care to apologise for taking Jeff out of context and misrepresenting his words now Brian, or are you gonna keep lying for Jesus?
and on your comment to Ray;
"And you think you know Jeff so well, and you know his reality? "
I don't think Ray was even suggesting he knew what was in Jeff's head, you did that. He WAS saying he was angry at people like you who deny what people actauly say, and claim they know better then people themselves what they think and feel. Yeah, you're bipolor too, peachy, still does not give you the right to throw out what Jeff says is his experiance and tell him what he "really" feels.
It's not that Ray or I know Jeff so well, it is that we can read what he writes and accept that Jeff knows what happened to Jeff. You, on the other hand read what Jeff writes, color it with your experience and tell Jeff he's "just angry with God" No where did Jeff say he was angry with God, he says he left because he studied, and thought, and realised it wasn't true. Jeff's reasons for leaveing are clearly written, and you come along and say "oh no, no that's not really why." Yet you don't seem to realise you just called someone a liar. So, now I am clearly teling you, the reasons you are saying Jeff left the faith go directly against what Jeff has written. Anyone knowing him has nothing to do with it. If you say "no, study and knowledge are not it, he's just angry" you're calling Jeff a liar and since you have NO reason to bare false witness I think you should apoligise.
"And you think you know Jeff so well, and you know his reality?
Ok, if I am not qualified to know what I am talking about, and I do not know Jeff's situation what makes you think that you are?"
Precisely the point! I do NOT know Jeff. I read what he wrote, and I take him at his word. That's all. And that's all I suggest for you, as well -- just take him at his word instead of denying or disputing HIS position based on what happened in your experience. Your story is your own, and if you tell it I'll take you at your word, too.
It really doesn't matter that you and Jeff share SOME similarities, like being bi-polar. It doesn't make you identical, and it is irrational and illogical to think his experience is the same as yours in every detail. it's just plain offensive to think that just because you remain faithful in your beliefs Jeff must be following that same path, even though he's clearly said otherwise.
Just take him at his word. He walked away from the faith, as he said. End of story.
Brian asked: "Let me ask you a question Ray. Are you Bi-Polar, and did you ask God to heal you when he wouldn't do it? "
Nope, not bi-polar. I'm an ex-Assembly of God minister, Air Force veteran, father of 4, grandfather of 10 ... and just as Gay today as I when I first realized it in elementary school!
There are meds to deal with being bi-polar. That's wonderful and I'd guess you are happy to live in a time when medical technology is available to help. There's no meds for being gay because there's nothing wrong with being gay. But you couldn't be gay in the Air Force back then (30+ years ago), you couldn't be a gay Christian back then, and you sure as hell couldn't be a Pentecostal minister and be gay. Trust me, I did EVERYthing in my power to "become" what I was told I needed to become. No amount of pretending, "acting as if", no amount of prayer, and no amount of married sex changed the fact that I was not going to magically become straight. Didn't work and God didn't "fix" me no matter what I did or how hard I asked, because there was nothing that needed fixing and there was no God to fix it.
That's my story.
"I am not mad at god. Being mad at a non-existent being would be a complete waste of my time and emotional energy."
No instead you waste your time and energy posting and ranting on here, and creating Anti-Christian websites.
Brother Jeff:
"I am an ATHEIST because I have realized that there is NO evidence for the existence of your god or anyone else's."
Based on what? The fact that he did not heal you, or give you what you wanted? Give me a break Jeff.
Brother Jeff:
"God did not hurt me. God cannot do anything due to the fact that he doesn't exist. I was hurt by being led to believe falsehoods for 15 years of my life."
You say that because he did not heal you, so therefore he must not exist, because he did not heal you.
Brother Jeff:
"But the burden of proof is actually on you to prove that Jesus IS real."
There is no burden on me. I don't have to prove anything. I don't owe you or any other Non-Christian any explanation for why Jesus didn't do something.
Brother Jeff:
"Fuck you, you arrogant asshole!"
What's the matter Jeff, is the truth starting to get to you? I guess you are being convicted. This is the same way I reacted when another christian started pointing out the hard facts about why I was in so much rebellion against God, and why I was cussing him. Damn, you remind me of myself.
Brother Jeff:
"Your god doesn't even exist!"
Yeah, I know. He doesn't exist, because he didn't heal you, so you got mad and left the faith.
You know damn good and well that you are wrong. You may never admit it, however in your mind of racing thoughts, you know deep down that you are wrong.
you name it i had it done to me. even down to the "bible school" teacher/molester. Don't let that fundy make you made who is calling you "backslidden" make you mad. he's addicted to the drug known as christianity and he'll say anything he can because it bothers him that someone can leave it, especially with your challenges.
"it's just plain offensive to think that just because you remain faithful in your beliefs Jeff must be following that same path, even though he's clearly said otherwise."
How do you know that Jeff is telling you the truth?
Maybe he is just using this message board as a way to vent and take out his frustrations and anger. I have done the same thing. I said that I hated God, and I said all types of blasphemous things against him, however deep down I knew I was wrong, and I knew that I didn't mean what I said at the time.
How do you know that Jeff has truly turned his back on God? Because he told you so?
Maybe I am wrong, however I see a lot of similarities in his behavior and mine. Anytime someone starts asking you the hard questions the next thing to do is get mad, go into a rage, and start cussing. I have done the same exact thing, and I have studied the behavior of people like myself who are also bi-polar.
I'm bi-polar also, and you know people like us don't like being pestered with such shit.
What Jeff chooses to do with his life and time is none of you stinking business. If posting and ranting helps Brother Jeff, then leave him the fuck alone.
What do you do with your time besides pester the shit out of someone else and try to analyze their behavior?
Is that your way of dealing with being bi-polar? Are you just simply mad because you are too scared to admit that Jesus does not work and you are too damn afraid to get help outside of christianity?
That's what I think Brian.
1. I am not a liar.
2. Look at my website, dipshit.
3. There is not a god for me to turn my back on.
Fuck off.
You have proven my point Jeff, and I rest my case. Don't worry you don't have to explain anything else to me.
I don't but I do not know he is lying, and I have no reason to accuse him of doing so. There si a reason why the laws in the US, and most of the western world call for innocent until proven guilty, not the other way around. So, going to apologise now?
Brian; "Maybe he is just using this message board as a way to vent and take out his frustrations and anger."
Maybe, maybe not, until you know this,or have some real reason to say so, you shouldn't accuse.
Brain; "I have done the same thing. I said that I hated God, and I said all types of blasphemous things against him, however deep down I knew I was wrong, and I knew that I didn't mean what I said at the time."
Everyone is just like you? or every bipolor person is just like you? Uh, wrong.
Brian; How do you know that Jeff has truly turned his back on God? Because he told you so?
Since I have no evidence to the contrary I don't accuse. Also I've read more of Jeff than just this testimony I have reason to believe him and no reason not to.
Brain; "Maybe I am wrong, however I see a lot of similarities in his behavior and mine."
You're wrong.
Brain; "Anytime someone starts asking you the hard questions the next thing to do is get mad, go into a rage, and start cussing."
Not true, here he asked you to read the answer to one of your questions fomr his website as he had already answred it. You ignored his answer. He then explained to you a basic princible of debate and something pretty reasonable. The burdenof proff is on the person making the claim. By saying he does not believe in Jesus he is NOT making a claim, by saying Jesus is real you are. You blew this off liek Jeff made it up, he didn't. It is also the principle behind why we are innocent until proven guilty.
Brain; "I have done the same exact thing, and I have studied the behavior of people like myself who are also bi-polar."
Medicine is not at a point where we really understand bipolar yet, but you think you can diagnose someone from one post? On a message forum, whom you have never met? You think it reasonable to accuse someone you do not know of lying because of an experience you had?
You have NO reason to accuse Jeff of lying, you are bearing false witness and should apologise. We're waiting, or are you to proud?
How do you know that Jeff is telling you the truth?
Because I have no reason to believe otherwise.
Maybe he is just using this message board as a way to vent and take out his frustrations and anger. I have done the same thing.
Maybe you're projecting?
How do you know that Jeff has truly turned his back on God? Because he told you so?
Because that's what he wrote.
Maybe I am wrong,
That's the first sensible thing you've posted in this thread! Congratulations!
However I see a lot of similarities in his behavior and mine.
Yeah, ME TOO. He's written about his frustrations and situations and stuff. But I don't assume he's exactly like me in every other way. He's a human and he's spent time as a Christian, so it is normal and expected that SOME of our stories might be similar, but not identical.
Give it a rest already. People get upset and angry and cuss when other people can't get off their high horse and start making assumptions and pronouncements and personalized projects about things you don't need to be analyzing to death.
He said he walked away because he realized God does not exist. It's not "angry because God didn't heal him". It's "God does not exist". That's what he wrote, that's he meant.
Geez, dude, quit badgering the guy.
You have proven my point Jeff, and I rest my case. Don't worry you don't have to explain anything else to me."
So now you're a pyschic?
He has all along been trying to deal with you calmly. You again bear flase witness, going to apologise yet?
You are proving me right, that for xians that debate being right is more important than god or people.
God is love, love is humble.
You have proven my point Jeff, and I rest my case. Don't worry you don't have to explain anything else to me.
I am not in denial about anything. You don't have a "case" to rest. Your beliefs hardly represent any sort of "truth". Your beliefs are a bunch of mythological bullshit. The difference between you and me is that I realize that fact, and you don't.
"There si a reason why the laws in the US, and most of the western world call for innocent until proven guilty, not the other way around."
You are basing that on Man's law. I only go by what God's law says, so don't compare the two.
Purple Said:
"So, going to apologise now?"
I apologize that Jeff is going through a hard time, but I am not going to apologize for making my comments or my observations.
Now Purple, let's look some more at some of your comments to me:
Purple:
"I don't but I do not know he is lying, and I have no reason to accuse him of doing so. There si a reason why the laws in the US, and most of the western world call for innocent until proven guilty, not the other way around. So, going to apologise now?"
Here is what I said:
Brian; "Maybe he is just using this message board as a way to vent and take out his frustrations and anger."
Purple's response:
Maybe, maybe not, until you know this,or have some real reason to say so, you shouldn't accuse.
Here is something else I said:
Brain; "Maybe I am wrong, however I see a lot of similarities in his behavior and mine."
Here is what Purple Said:
"You're wrong"
Wait a minute Purple, you said:
"Maybe, maybe not, until you know this,or have some real reason to say so, you shouldn't accuse."
However you tell me that "I am wrong"? You contradicted yourself didn't you? You aren't for sure if Jeff is telling the truth, however later on you change your mind and tell me that "I am wrong", which would indicate that you now know for sure that Jeff is telling the truth. How did you all of a sudden come to your final conclusion so quick dear purple?
You admitted that you did not know for sure if Jeff was telling the truth or not, however for some odd reason, you know that "I am wrong". Yet you cannot prove that yourself.
Purple's other comment:
"you are bearing false witness and should apologise. We're waiting, or are you to proud?"
I do not answer to you or anyone else on here, so get over it.
As far as some of the other comments that I have read on here in other posts about how "Christians cannot spell correctly" well let's take a look at the way you spell Purple:
First of all my name is "Brian", not "Brain".
Purple's comment:
"There si a reason why the laws in the US"
You mean, "There "IS" a reason" not "There "SI" a reason".
Plus the word "Apologize" is spelled with an "S" not a "Z".
Atheists claim that Christians are bad at spelling their words? Glad I'm not an atheist, or my spelling would suck even worse.
Brian
Are you going to learn how to spell the word "Apologize" correctly?
Once again, I am not going to apologize nor do I answer to you, so you can just get over it.
"Plus the word "Apologize" is spelled with an "S" not a "Z"."
You just contradicted yourself Brian.
Yes, Apologize is spelled with a "Z", however you said that it is not spelled with a "Z".
You FUCKED UP BRIAN!!!!! LMAO!!!!
PLEASE LEAVE BEFORE YOU MAKE A COMPLETE IDIOT OUT OF YOURSELF!!!!
I'm sure that Brother Jeff and I are both having a really good laugh at your fuck up along with you new way to witness for Christ.
Eat Shit Brian.
"I'm sure that Brother Jeff and I are both having a really good laugh at your fuck up along with you new way to witness for Christ."
Yeah, just like you spelled the word "Your" as "You".
"You new way to witness for Christ".
Hey kids, it's been fun, however I've got other things to do.
See ya.
So, you know you should apologize, but can't bring yourself to, so you're just going to bitch about my ability to spell or lack there of.
I WIN!
That itself is a victory. Talking about sticking your foot in your own mouth.
LMAO!!!!
"So, you know you should apologize, but can't bring yourself to"
Uh, no I don't think I should apologize, nor do I see a need to. What fantasy world are you living in? I don't owe you or anyone else on here anything.
Yet, you failed to explain why you all of a sudden had the knowledge about how I was wrong, after you said you had no proof if Brother Jeff was lying or not.
You claim you cannot prove if Brother Jeff is wrong or not, however you claim that you know that I am wrong. How so?
Purple:
I WIN
Ok, What did you win?
The only thing you have won is in your own dreams.
You need to get over yourself Purple, and your fantasies about what you have won.
Would love to stay and play with you kids some more, but this time I do have to run.
Bye! ;)
Thanks for reminding us of at least one of the reasons that we left the faith - arrogant, obnoxious Christians like you. Asshole.
You got your ass kicked, and I enjoyed being a part of it. See ya.
Glory!
You believe in your god. Good for you. Why do you feel compelled to confront Bro Jeff? Could it be because you know deep down inside that your god doesn't exist and so you have to manically defend its existence?
Do you see how such logic is flawed? I too left Christianity after studying Christianity, and I don't suffer from any illnesses whatsoever.
Brian, you may think you mean well, but your religion has contributed toward making you into a complete asshole. Good luck with that.
Notice how he ignores some facts.
Brian is a fucking hypocrite just like all other christians are.
He left because he got his ass kicked on here. That is why he left.
Apologize is commonly spelled with an S by the British and others.
Perhaps you should get back on your meds and put your ignorant ass to bed.
Regardless of what you think of Brother Jeff, you don't know his mind or his heart, do you? I think you would reserve that knowledge for a certain higher power. It may be your wish that he is just a back slider and angry at God, but the fact is that many of us have come to our lack of faith without anger of any kind. It's more of an awakening. Peace be with you.
You may never admit it, however in your mind of racing thoughts, you know deep down that you are wrong.
Brian, that guilt trip isn't going to work here. Your imaginary friend doesn't heal _anybody,_ because he doesn't exist. The overwhelming lack of evidence makes that pretty obvious, and let's face it, you don't have any credible evidence either. Hopefully some day you'll figure it out.
"Could it be because you know deep down inside that your god doesn't exist and so you have to manically defend its existence?"
Yes, WM you are right, so I am back to eat some crow, which is very rare for someone who posts christian propaganda on here to do.
I am not being a smart ass when I admit to you that I needed my faith tested. I am in fact being very serious. I have had these doubts for a very long time, and I have tried every single thing that I know of that christians use to defend their faith. I have tried every single method and have tried all types of bible verses to defend and test my faith. None of them work, and the fact is that I needed to once again have assurance about what I believe. I cannot get that assurance, and Jesus did not do a damn thing to assure me of my faith. Jesus has failed, that is if he even exists in the first place.
I felt the need to test what I have believed for years in order to see if the christian message could be defended against Atheism or not.
After trying to defend it (in other posts besides this one) I now admit my defeat. You guys have worn me out, and after I tried so hard to defend my faith, I am hear to say that the christian faith including the bible cannot be defended successfully. There are too many contradictions and too many problems with christianity. Christian teachings and scripture cannot successfully defeat the logic along with the science of today.
My ass has been whooped, and I am a defeated man. I surrender and I apologize to Brother Jeff for any anger or pain that I may have caused him.
Ok Purple, I'll have my humble (Crow) pie now.
Christianity only made it worse.
Like I mentioned, I felt the need to once and for all test my failing faith in Jesus. It has now failed completely.
Thank you for your honesty, and apology accepted. Losing one's faith is not an easy thing. If you hang out around here, you'll find plenty of help and support.
I too had the experience of Christianity making my bipolar illness much worse than it had to have been. I also have found help for it only through secular means. Religion makes mental illness worse, not better.
As hard as it can be, it can also be a huge relief, so here's hoping you get more relief then pain.
I'm sorry that it may have caused some of you pain.
Brian.
"But the burden of proof is actually on you to prove that Jesus IS real."
Brian: There is no burden on me. I don't have to prove anything. I don't owe you or any other Non-Christian any explanation for why Jesus didn't do something.
Jesus didn't "do something" because Jesus never does anything. The hallmark of something that doesn't exist. "Jesus" did exactly what something that doesn't exist could do, which is nothing.
You won't try to prove anything, because you have no proof. The defensiveness is just your way of squirming out of the fact that there is no proof to offer.
Madame M
I know, this has got to be one of the most fucked up things I have ever seen on this site.
I can't help but wonder if it's the same Brian also. Plus there has been several incidents here lately of people posting under other people's screen names on here. It happened to me recently on another thread.
I know, this has got to be one of the most fucked up things I have ever seen on this site.
I can't help but wonder if it's the same Brian also. Plus there has been several incidents here lately of people posting under other people's screen names on here. It happened to me recently on another thread.