I would turn to my Bible, struggling to believe

Sent in by Jenni

I was raised in your average moderate Christian home. My parents, who are nondenominational Christians, brought me up to believe in Jesus Christ, but left me up for my own interpretation of the Bible. We never attended church regularly, as they didn't agree with many of the beliefs and values of fundamentalist Christians. On times when we did attend a church service, I was left in a youth group room, where I was told that Jesus Christ was coming soon, and we'd better prepare immediately for his return. I usually never understood what the youth pastors were ever talking about.

As I grew older, I started getting more interested in the Bible. There was no outside pressure do so, just my own curiosity. I believed in evolution, and since the Bible contradicted it, I was confused whether or not to take the Bible literally. I had a belief in god, but not a good knowledge of my faith.

One day in middle school, I befriended a girl who rode my bus. Her name was Jackie, and she was a Christian. She introduced her beliefs to me and opened me up to a world of religion I never had before. She told me that it was bad that my parents didn't take me to church, that I was destined for Hell if I didn't change my ways. started going to an Evangelical church with her and her family. Her family was poor and rather large, she was the middle child of 11 children, had an abused mother and a tyrannical father with fires of hell in his eyes.

Her father was the scariest man alive, he refused to let her befriend nonbelievers, forced her friends to participate in all their church activities and prayers, and even yelled at her and made her cry numerous times in front of me, calling her a spoiled brat, which she really wasn't. The man was unemployed and forced his wife to work three jobs to support the family. He had a hard time finding work due to a felony he received for child abuse. I still don't know the whole story to this day.

As time went on, our friendship grew stronger, and by the time we reached high school, I had been fully indoctrinated. I was a creationist fundamentalist Evangelical Christian. I was pro-life, anti-gay, and anti-evolution. Together we were a team and preached to our peers at school, arguing with them about their evil beliefs and how they needed Christ in their lives. I took her every word, without question, as her beliefs were not only supported by the Bible, but by her ever knowledgeable pastor. If I questioned anything, I was an enemy to Jesus. She even threatened to end our friendship when I started dating guys who were not Christian. I still had liberal ideas, that I managed to salvage during this time.

I was always interested in science, but never took it upon myself to learn it. Surprisingly, she also was interested in science, as long as it included creationism. We started reading books on physics, ones that tried to support proof of god. I took it upon myself one day, to claim a quest, to prove the Bible scientifically and historically. Of course I had to do this by doing what research I could with available materials, i.e. books and the internet. By this point in my life, our friendship was fading. Being alone for the first time allowed me to start thinking more clearer. I was reading things that not only didn't support the Bible, but was disproving it before my eyes.

I would turn to my Bible, struggling to believe what I could. I kept running over disturbing passages that I never heard nor read before. I started realized that god was sexist, violent, pro-slavery, malevolent and the Bible just stunk of scientific and historical fallacies. I couldn't take it anymore, nothing was making sense. I didn't want to believe in the Bible anymore.I was stuck in hard place, I couldn't prove nor disprove the Bible. I started examining humanity's life views.

Now, I was in college and taking a broad range of classes including environmental biology. We were given a book called Ishmael, by Daniel Quinn. I found it's cover quite curious. I had a funny feeling about this book. I began reading, it was bringing up ideas that I had hidden inside me all along. The world was not created for mankind. It was not god who made man in his image, it was man who made up god in his own image. This sparked a whole new philosophy inside me and I had a new adventure to pursue, disproving the Bible. I started learning about Christlike figures that came before Christianity.

I learned that Christianity took on ideas from Zoroastrianism, Mirthraism and gods like Horus, which all predated it by hundreds of years, and even longer. I realized that Protestantism was a reformation of Catholicism that began from the actions of an anti-Semite named Martin Luther, in the early 1500s. I learned that the Bible was missing gospels that scholars chose to throw out because it made Jesus into a person people didn't want him to be. Nothing in the Bible suggested to me that someone more intelligent that myself could have written it. It wasn't. I was written by fallible man, with little knowledge of how the world really works. Why would god appoint fallible man to write an infallible book?

51 comments:

xrayman said...

It just baffles me how a seemingly well adjusted child could be sucked into the bullshit of another family's religion. I grew up believing in God as my parents did, but when a friend would preach Hell fire to me for not worshiping their God correctly, I would laugh in their faces. Oh well it's nice that science and reason won in the end. Very nice testomonial. I am glad you shared your story with us.

Anonymous said...

So much for the idea that parents should give kids freedom to choose. I know too many who ended up fundamentalist when given "freedom."

Anonymous said...

"Oh well it's nice that science and reason won in the end."

The end will not come until Jesus has returned. It is Jesus who will win in the end.

Trans-man said...

Peer pressure is tough on teenagers, even adults a lot of times. We make friends, and if they seem to be convinced of something, a lot of times we let them convince us too. After all, the vast majority in my state is church going, bible thumping and sometimes fundamentalistic. It's easy to get involved in church, especially if you don't do your own research but believe what others say. We humans don't neccessarily doubt what others say, especially when it sounds good and a lot of people support it and believe it.
To Anonymous, you can have your Jesus and believe in the dude till YOUR end. We have no use for him, in case you have not noticed yet.

Anonymous said...

"We have no use for him, in case you have not noticed yet."

We shall see in the end. I'm afraid some of you will be in for a very rude awakening.

Astreja said...

Anonymouse: "We shall see in the end. I'm afraid some of you will be in for a very rude awakening."

Be as afraid as you like, little squeaker. Rather than a 'very rude awakening', however, I predict that we shall all have a profoundly un-rude loss of consciousness at the end of our respective lives. No one is going to 'see' much of anything.

Oh, and I doubt very much that 'Jesus' is coming back. Even if he existed, people do not come back from the dead after three days... Let alone after 2,000 years.

.:webmaster:. said...

Anony-bot, you should really educate yourself on the evolution of Christian thought regarding eschatology. Obviously you only are familiar with one particular Christian belief that was actually invented in the middle of the 19th Century.

Here's a starting place: CLICK HERE

Cousin Ricky said...

Anonymous #7045037103430040716 wrote: “The end will not come until Jesus has returned. It is Jesus who will win in the end”

And you know this how…?

Anonymous #3153417621520939490 wrote: “We shall see in the end. I'm afraid some of you will be in for a very rude awakening.”

You obviously don’t understand us non-believers very well. We are not impressed by imaginary threats.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous,
You're more fulla shit than a Christmas goose.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous,
Don't forget to tell me that I'm going to Hell, now. I've only heard it about !0,000 times since I was born. One more time just might work.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous,
I have a little homework for you:
I would like you to tell me where in the New Testament it says that "Jesus will return"? There are plenty of places where it says that He is going to come, but where does it say that he is going to "come back"?
I want scripture and verse and I want to see the words "return" or "come back".

Aspentroll said...

To Annonybut:

Welcome to OUR site. We enjoy kicking your ass. Tell your friends about us. We'll kick their asses too. Maybe some day you will become enlightened and kick some butt
too.

Anonymous said...

It'll be Jesus who kicks some butt in the end.

Atheism may have won some battles, however it is Jesus who will win the overall war in the end.

Astreja said...

Anonymouse: "It'll be Jesus who kicks some butt in the end."

We'll worry about that if and when he bothers to show up, thanks. According to Luke 21:32 he's already at least 1900 years late. Must be stuck in traffic.

casper said...

Jenni, congrats on seeing the truth for what it is - the reality that surrounds us and not some book of mythology... And best of luck on your journey of enlightenment. I've heard of that boot, Ishmeal, but I haven't had time to read it yet. That's the problem with enlightenment journeys - there are SO MANY books to read!

Anonybutt #1 - if Jebus will win in the end, who's he fighting?

Anonybutt #2 - rude awakening? How is that? Jebus died for our sins. If he comes down here and announces himself before his title fight (a la Southpark I imagine), sure, we'll acknowledge him and accept him for who he is because at that point he is part of REALITY. Until then, he's nothing but a myth. Now Athena, there'a a god I can respect!! Chicks in armour, Hot!

Anonybutt #3 - Think about what you said....

It'll be Jesus who kicks some butt in the end. Atheism may have won some battles, however it is Jesus who will win the overall war in the end.

Why is it that logic seems to be unavailable to the religeous?!? Sigh...

Atheists are not the enemy of your buddy Jebus, it's that devil dude who actually freed humans from their god-yoke. If, as I said to Butt(hole) #2, if he comes back, we'll re-evaluate the facts and decide. But(t) until then - he's a MYTH! Or he's stuck in traffic like astreja commented....

Cheers, Derrick.

leotracks said...

Lorena said...

So much for the idea that parents should give kids freedom to choose. I know too many who ended up fundamentalist when given "freedom."

That brings up a good question, Jenni; I would be interested in hearing how your family reacted during your descent into religious extremism, and how they feel about your current beliefs.

Very good post, would like to hear more.

Stephen C said...

Funny Anonymous, smugly babbling out the same ga-ga threats of 'Invisible-Man-With-Big-Stick-Is-Gonna-Get-YOU! But not ME!' So patronising, and, outstandingly childish! A nasty, mean-spirited child, too.
Go somewhere else to tremble in your self-congratulatory way, you silly time-wasting fool.

Anonymous said...

"We'll worry about that if and when he bothers to show up, thanks."

"If he comes down here and announces himself before his title fight (a la Southpark I imagine), sure, we'll acknowledge him and accept him for who he is because at that point he is part of REALITY."

Both of you need to start worrying about it now. By then it will be too late for both of you. The time to repent is "NOW". By the time Jesus returns it will be too late when he says to both of you: "Depart from me, I never knew you".

"Anonybutt #1 - if Jebus will win in the end, who's he fighting?"

He's fighting against the evils of this world and the deceit that comes with it. You are apparently one of the many who post on here who has been deceived.

"Atheists are not the enemy of your buddy Jebus, it's that devil dude who actually freed humans from their god-yoke."

It is the devil who has blinded you atheists. That is what makes him our enemy, along with anyone else who spits on my God, and continues to mock him.

Huey said...

Anonymous go away! Nobody here cares the slightest for your ignorant uneducated rhetoric.

darthwonka said...

I've really been getting into the Matrix metaphor in regards to the brainwashed perceptions of religion and free thinking.

Some people, like anonymous, are just not ready to be unplugged.

Even so, I am not sure which makes my stomach turn more, the evolved influenza I am suffering through, or the rantings of someone who chooses the blue pill. It is sad.

It is like walking through the halls of an insane asylum and there is nothing you can say or do that will convince the occupants that they are not possessed by a tyrannical sky god who loves you.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous,
Are you still looking for that scripture, or don't you read the Bible?

Who do you think you are talking to on this site? We are ex-christians because we learned the truth about Christianity, which is something you haven't done yet. All you have done is piously regurgitate what you have heard from the pulpit.

The early Christians (pre-diaspora) did not hold the concept that Jesus had ever walked the Earth. To them, Jesus was like one of the Greek gods who lived beyond the clouds.

The Pauline Epistles never mention any of the events of the Gospels (no Bethlehem, no King Herod, no Sermon on the Mount, no Sanhedron, no Golgotha, etc.) because it never happened.

When Paul speaks of the coming of Christ, he never says "return" or "come back" or "the second coming". He speaks of it as the first.

The Gospels are post-diaspora fictions written for the benefit of consolidating various Jesus cults in the Roman Empire.

I suggest you learn a little bit more about your own religion. You're really coming off like a fool.

And read your damned Bible.

insanezenmistress said...

Morning Pekingjohn.

Humm, i had never thought about it before, the bible doesnt really say come back, but come.

and "we shall meet him in the air" and "of his government there will be no end" and yadda yadda but not nessacarilly a physcial return. But something more of a mystical return like the Gnostics may have taught. Come , air, government can all have mystical tones in the interpretation, as they are more like wishfull thinking and poetically unrealilistic.

Anyway, this aint the place to talk about theology, and annony-but likely wont chime in with a new approach, he's too busy trying to take us to schoolin.

Jenni, you sound alot like i did. And i want for your encouragment and that where ever you are youa re fullfilled and ever learning.

Jessy

Anonymous said...

Anonymous Said:
"as they are more like wishfull thinking and poetically unrealilistic."

Once again all of you are basing this on human reasoning, and understanding.

You do not understand because the 2nd coming is beyond human reasoning and understanding. There are things that are supernatural that many of you fail to realize.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous,
Where did you get this idea about the Second Coming? Certainly not from the Bible, it's not in there.

Did you get it from the huckster behind the pulpit at your local church? How much money did you have to put in the offering plate to get that information?

Did you get it from Jimmy Swaggert? Ted Haggard? Personal revelation?

You should perhaps try a little human reasoning and understanding. You are apparantly oblivious to it. Blind faith is just that, blind. Stop waisting your life, Anonymous.

Howcome you haven't told me I'm going to Hell yet?

stronger now said...

"Once again all of you are basing this on human reasoning, and understanding."

Thanks for the compliment.

"You do not understand because the 2nd coming is beyond human reasoning and understanding."

So what you are saying is that we can't understand it so we should just accept it because it doesn't make sense. Then what did you use to determine that the bible is true? Oops! There I go trying to use reason again.

Could you tell us more things that don't make sense so we can also see how the supernatural is accepted by those who don't use any reasoning?

Anonymous said...

Stronger Now......"Could you tell us more things that don't make sense so we can also see how the supernatural is accepted by those who don't use any reasoning?"

Ok, do any of you believe in UFOs?

Have you ever wondered about things that are beyond this galaxy and man's comprehension?

Think about it.

Anonymous said...

Pekingjohn......."Howcome you haven't told me I'm going to Hell yet?"

Do you want me to tell you that?

Anonymous said...

Anonymous,
Yeah, I've been hearing it ever since I was in diapers. If I don't hear it at least once a day, I start having withraw symptoms.

Anonymous said...

That's not for me to judge. Plus you may one day become a christian.

So I really don't know if you are going to hell or not.

AtheistToothFairy said...

Anonymous wrote:
Ok, do any of you believe in UFOs?
Have you ever wondered about things that are beyond this galaxy and man's comprehension?

----
Any woo-woo mouse,

I take it by "UFO's" you actually mean to imply that they are some sort of 'flying' crafts from other worlds (or other dimensions), that either have alien life forms on-board, or are being remotely piloted by said alien beings?

If this what you mean, they I most certainly do NOT believe such 'sightings' represent aliens from other worlds coming to pay us daily visits.
The evidence the UFO folks hold is no better than hearsay, the minds-eye playing tricks on the brain and of course, lots of out-of-focus pictures or pictures where there is no reference of size/distance etc..

However, as piss-poor as their evidence is to support this alien visitation idea, they actually hold far more evidence for their beliefs than xtians have to support their belief in their jesus having been a real person, let alone a magical son of some god.
At least they have circumstantial evidence to look at, where xtians have almost nothing at all to show their jesus lived 2000 years ago.

As far as things beyond our own galaxy goes.
First off, do you have any comprehension as to how HUGE our Milky Way Galaxy actually is?
So if you're all worried about what goes on in some other galaxy out there, it's pretty safe to assume such things wouldn't have any impact upon the life forms living on this tiny planet earth in our own galaxy.

We have no reason to form a belief that other galaxies would contain creatures that defy the known laws of nature we see here. You might WISH to believe in some supernatural forms of life in other galaxies, but wishing doesn't make such beings come into existence, let alone allow such beings to find our tiny earth and pay constant visits to it.

Now, one also would have to greatly wonder why aliens advanced enough to traverse hundred of thousands of light years to reach our earth, would then do as your god does and play this hide and seek game with us. They are feeble enough to let themselves be seen by a few here and there, but at the same time feel it's their duty to never make confirmable contact with us.

Do these UFO's travel back home each night to go to sleep and stock up on whatever food they require?
Perhaps they actually hide behind our moon or other planets of our solar system and only travel back home every now and then.

Next you'll be telling me that some aliens paid you a visit one night when you were trying to sleep in your bed, and possibly took you up to their spaceship where they did some 'special' exams on intimate parts of your body?

All in all, if there are things beyond our comprehension out there, it really doesn't matter until those things show up on earth in a manner where there is no doubt about their existence etc..

If they do not contact us, influence our lives here, then what difference would it make to our own existence?

Face it, you're just another woo-woo believer that wishes such things to be true, but like the rest of the woo-woo folks, you have zero evidence; other than what exists inside your own noggin.


ATF (Who just loves these woo-woo folks who imply fantastic claims, but never offer us evidence to back those claims up with)

stronger now said...

"Ok, do any of you believe in UFOs?"

If you mean objects that are flying that people can't see well enough to identify, then yes.

The key thing to remember here is that UFO's are Unidentified Flying Objects, and are by definition UNIDENTIFIED!!!! It doesn't mean that the evidence points to aliens from another galaxy are visiting our planet. It just means that there isn't enough information to make a positive claim about the objects IDENTITY.

"Have you ever wondered about things that are beyond this galaxy and man's comprehension?"

Wondering about hypothetical things and claiming they are true are two vastly different things. People can make up anything to explain that which they don't understand. It doesn't make their explanations true.

However if someone were to come up with credible evidence to support their ideas it goes a long way in helping any rational logical person to accept their ideas as something more than just fantasy.

Thank you for playing the "Unrational people will believe anything" game.

Anonymous said...

Atheisttoothfairy........."All in all, if there are things beyond our comprehension out there, it really doesn't matter until those things show up on earth in a manner where there is no doubt about their existence etc.."

How about the Roswell Crash for example and Area 51?

How do you know that God might not have had something to do with that?

BTW, are you a dentist?

Anonymous said...

Strongernow........

See my reply to atheisttoothfairy.

Thanks.

AtheistToothFairy said...

Anonymous wrote:
How about the Roswell Crash for example and Area 51?
How do you know that God might not have had something to do with that?


Woo-woo mouse,

You really need to stop reading all that conspiracy trash you've been digesting.
There is NO evidence from the Area 51 incident to support the crash of some alien spaceship.
While conspiracy folks are quick to point out that something must have been going on there, because of the military's reaction to questions about it, that doesn't automatically indicate aliens.

The fact is, it was indeed a CLASSIFIED high altitude balloon that crashed there, and not some spaceship.
The military at the time was trying to discover new ways to detect incoming missiles from our southern borders. This effort was classified SECRET and obviously there was a need to keep it under-wraps, even after the balloon crashed and the event caught the public eye.

The Air Force at the time, made their disclaimers but many couldn't accept what they were being told.
When the rumors of a UFO crashing started to spread around, the military chose to play into that rumor, but, in a subtile manner.
It was far better for the public and our enemies, to believe in the UFO rumors, rather than for our enemies (Russia etc.) to discover the true nature of that experiment.

One popular rumor was that some had seen small coffins, leading to the rumor that they were going to bury these dead aliens.
Not for nothing, but if such aliens had crashed landed and then died, the very last thing the military would do, would be to bury them !!

There also was a very popular autopsy video that made it into the public eye; by mysterious circumstances of course.
While to the untrained eye, the video seemed to depict an autopsy of an alien body, upon further study by trained eye's, this autopsy was clearly a hoax.
If you believe it was really an alien body in this video, then I'll explain further why it's obvious the video was a hoax.

So unless your god gets involved with U.S. military research, then I'm pretty sure he would have not been a participant in this research balloon experiment.


>BTW, are you a dentist?

No, I'm not a dentist, but I do wonder how humans in the OT could have had teeth that lasted '900' years.


ATF (Who can't believe some folks TODAY are still are buying into the Roswell incident as having been of alien nature)

Anonymous said...

Atheisttoothfairy,

I read what all you had to say, however let me ask you a question.

Do you believe everything our Government says?

Ever heard of a cover story?

Anonymous said...

I believe that Satan is using these UFO sightings to deceive people, and here is why.

When the rapture happens and all of the christians disappear from this earth, the government will probably blame it on UFOs and Alien Abductions.

That is what I think.

black swede said...

Anonymous Said:
"I believe that Satan is using these UFO sightings to deceive people, and here is why.

When the rapture happens and all of the christians disappear from this earth, the government will probably blame it on UFOs and Alien Abductions.

That is what I think."


Is this guy serious? LMAO!!!!!

AtheistToothFairy said...

Anonymous wrote:
Do you believe everything our Government says?
Ever heard of a cover story?

-----
No I do NOT believe everything ANY government tells the public.
I will also agree that our officials at times will try and cover something up, that the public would be angry about or that would put them in jail etc..

That said, we have to look at how successful our politicians have been in such cover up's schemes.

How well did Nixon cover up Watergate?
How well did Bill Clinton cover up his affair with Monica?
The list of HUMAN events our leaders failed to cover up is longer than the list of IRS tax laws.

Now, if they are so inept at covering up non-supernatural events, then how well do you suppose they would be at covering up alien visits to our earth?
As someone once said, "Military secrets are the most fleeing of all"
So it's hard enough for our military to keep secret, the more mundane things it must keep from both the public and our enemies.

Now if aliens are visiting this earth, would it be your intention to assert that such aliens would only be known by just the USA government?
I doubt you would assert this, so therefore they must be known my MANY various governments, right?

If that is true, then one has to assert that all these countries are in cahoots with each other over the alien matter.
Do you really suppose that all these countries top officials can agree with each other about keeping these visits a secret and then, to what extent would they agree to do so?

Now if we can't keep our military secrets under wraps from other countries, just how well might be keep secret our knowledge of aliens from other worlds?

One MUST take into account human nature in all these speculations.
Human nature might accept keeping secret the information that is needed to protect one's own country, but once some piece of information has an impact upon the entire earth's population, do you still think such matters could still be kept top secret?
How many people do you know that would agree to keep the public from knowing about alien visits, where such visits would surely have repercussions upon all of human-kind and our very future?

If UFO's are really aliens that have been playing this hide and seek game with us for decades now, and many governments are also aware of their existence, then please tell me what special type of humans exists on earth, that have the great ability to keep everyone from knowing these things?

Face it, something this extraordinary, and world wide, could NEVER be kept under wraps for long !!

So no, I do not believe in alien visits, let alone some worldwide cover up of such.


ATF (Who loves to laugh HARD at the UFO shows on cable that attempt to convince the public that they exist)

Anonymous said...

Atheisttoothfairy,

Did you even read my thoughts on why people are seeing UFOs and how I believe that it is Satan's way of trying to deceive people who are going to be left behind after the rapture happens?

Yes Black Swede, I am being serious, and I really do believe that.

stronger now said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
stronger now said...

Anonymouse,

"When the rapture happens and all of the christians disappear from this earth, the government will probably blame it on UFOs and Alien Abductions."


So you believe that "Satan is using these UFO sightings to deceive people" because of something that hasn't happened, directed by a being which you have no credible evidence for, because it's written in a book that makes no sense.

Cue the men with the butterfly nets, this one's lost his mind.

black swede said...

ATF,

I have seen a huge amount of "Anonymouse" posts on here today and they all seem to be from this same poster who seems to be determined to spam this site with his silliness.

I think he is toying with us, and I do not take him/her serious at all.

Anonymous said...

Well you should take me serious black swede because I have been sent here by God to reveal this stuff to you.

I am like Moses.

AtheistToothFairy said...

Anonymous wrote:
When the rapture happens and all of the christians disappear from this earth, the government will probably blame it on UFOs and Alien Abductions........
Did you even read my thoughts on why people are seeing UFOs and how I believe that it is Satan's way of trying to deceive people who are going to be left behind after the rapture happens?

----
Anon,

First off, please give yourself a NAME, other than 'anonymous'.
I'm SURE you can figure out how to do that, right.

Now about this Satan and UFO's.

Three decades ago when I believed in the supernatural and your god, I recall being exposed to this theory of yours here.
I'm no longer sure what book it was that I had read, that asserted this idea of UFO's actually being some devil-hoax, but I do recall thinking at the time that it was feasible, just as you SEEM to right now.

Funny how decades of living can bring one the wisdom to see through such fallacies.

Now you make a claim here that "THE Government" will try to explain the rapture by insisting that it was aliens that abducted all these people, right?

First off, do you believe the rapture will only affect the people of the USA or would it affect all nations that have 'true xtians' living in them?
I think you'll agree it MUST be all nations and not just the USA?

That being the case, then ALL those government's leaders would need to offer this alien explanation to it's citizens, right.
So here we have all these governments presently denying that UFO's are of alien nature, but you assume they would suddenly change their story once this rapture occurs.
Now why would they do that, thus giving away this huge secret; that you seem to believe they are presently keeping under tight wraps?

If the UFO's aren't real and are only illusions created by this satan, then why would the governments of the entire world suddenly conclude that aliens are real and have invaded our earth and are responsible for stealing many of our inhabitants?

Given that the USA is mostly a xtian nation, if this magical rapture actually were to occur, why would our leaders not admit that this particular xtian belief was correct, but instead try to insist that aliens were responsible? Aliens, that again, they have continually denied up to that point in time.
That would assume that our leaders are in collusion with the devil himself, no?
That would also assume that other nations must be as well.

What would be gained by blaming these disappearances on aliens, rather than a god?
Isn't it already too late at this point for the left-behind humans to get into god's club?
If my assumption here is true, then to find out god-did-it versus aliens did it, wouldn't change anyone's ultimate fate, right?

In any case, in order to blame this on aliens, worldwide, one would have to show real evidence of their existence, far beyond some sky illusions of the devil's handy-work.
Folks would demand REAL answers, not speculation, from their leaders.

First off, if you're correct about this rapture sweeping up ONLY true xtians, then it would become quickly apparent that it wasn't a random abduction from some aliens, that took place. I mean, why would alien beings who were hell bent on abducting vast amount of humans, only pick dedicated xtians and leave everyone else alone?
How would aliens know the status of every single person's belief system, in order to discern these special xtians from everyone else?

So no, I don't think it's feasible for even real aliens to pull off such a 'selective' stunt, nor can I see how any government would fool their citizens into buying such an assertion.

If this so called 'rapture' were to actually take place, it would be quite obvious to the remaining humans that this was indeed what occurred.

So no Anon, I don't believe in aliens flying around our earth in UFO's, nor do I see a point for the this devil to be pulling off such an elaborate hoax either.

You would do yourself a huge favor, if you would start doing some research on supernatural claims. Once you realize that there isn't ANY evidence to support anything on this earth of supernatural origins, then you'll be on the road to reality.

Start by reading http://www.randi.org/ .
I'd start here with the SWIFT and it's commentaries....... http://www.randi.org/joom/content/blogcategory/13/27/


ATF (Who thinks 'UFO' really stands for Uninformed Foolish Obsession)

ps to black swede

While this poster might be toying with us, there are those out there that do hold these odd beliefs, so it can't hurt to 'address' those readers here as well.

Mike said...

Sorry Anonymous,

But that cult has already come and gone.

It was called, "Heaven's Gate".

They all committed suicide, and supposedly flew out of here in a UFO to heaven.

Sorry that you missed the rapture.

leotracks said...

How lucky we are to have an actual profit in our midst. So tell me, Moses-Like, what is your support for believing in the rapture. I'll even accept biblical references.

There are none, although it can be forced into some concordance with the Tribulation (Matthew 24). But for the most part, the notion of the rapture as it is thought of today was the product of Scottish cleric, and womanizer, Edward Irving, around 1830.

And as far as the UFO thing. Wow. A Christian using the possibility of aliens as an argument to support religion. I have never heard that before. Considering the size of our galaxy, the number of galaxies and the size and age of the universe itself, I find it mind boggling that anyone would believe a creator god would care in the least about this tiny speck of dust we call Earth. In the past 10 or so years, astronomers have determined that planetary systems seem to be the norm; water is extremely common, and our sun is remarkable only in its averageness. God certainly used a lot of material and area just for one isolated clump of real estate for his garden. And if he did create life elsewhere, why didn't he mention it to the first Moses?

.:webmaster:. said...

"Once again all of you are basing this on human reasoning, and understanding."

OK, maybe I'm dense, but how else does a human (any human) reason except by using human reasoning?

Or perhaps you mean something like this: "You are basing this on observable reality, and you should reject observable reality and simply blindly accept religious rhetoric without engaging your mind at all."

Is that more in line with your meaning?

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Anonymous said...

Anonymous,
First of all, I would like to thank you for providing us with such entertaining comments. People like you really add a great deal of color to this site.

I'm going to assume for a moment that you are serious about the UFO thing.

1) Just from the law of averages, it is almost certain that there is life on other planets throughout the universe. NASA is finding new planets all the time, and a number of them may have the conditions for producing life.

2) However, it is highly unlikely that any of those other life forms would come here. They're simply too far away.

The nearest star system to our own is Alpha-centauri, about four light years away. That means that if someone could travel at the speed of light, it would take four years to get here from there. (Einstein's Theory of Relativity says that nothing can travel faster than light.)

Even if someone could travel at the speed of light, who would want to take four years for a journey?

You should really consider taking a few science courses at your local community college. A course in physics, biology, and chemistry each would really do you a lot of good. Astronomy would be interesting too.

By the way, all of the great prophets have had names: Moses, Jesus, Mohammed, etc ... Would you mind telling us yours?

AtheistToothFairy said...

pekingjohn wrote:
The nearest star system to our own is Alpha-centauri, about four light years away. That means that if someone could travel at the speed of light, it would take four years to get here from there. (Einstein's Theory of Relativity says that nothing can travel faster than light.)
---
Hi pekingjohn,

Umm, just one minor correction to your otherwise great point here.
There is nothing in Einstein's theory that prohibits traveling FASTER than the speed of light.
That is a common misconception.
What it actually says is that one can't travel AT the speed of light itself.
Of course, to go faster than the speed of light, one must go through the speed at which light travels.

It would be like saying you can't travel at 60 MPH in your car, but there is nothing to stop you from doing 75 MPH. The problem is how to get to 75 MPH without ever seeing 60 MPH first.

The basic problem as one gets close to light speed, is that you require increasing vast amounts energy as you approach it, eventually reaching a point where you need an infinite amount of energy to sustain light speed itself.

So unless these aliens found a way to jump OVER that light speed limitation, then your point is most valid, as they would never be visiting earth, especially daily like so many believe they do.


ATF (Who wonders if Light Speed=Ludicrous Speed in god's plane)

Anonymous said...

ATF,
A very interesting concept,indeed. I'm going to look through a few books and get back to you on it.

Cheers,
PJ

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