Discovering what a terrible piece litterature the Bible is...

sent in by Hutch

I've been visiting this website since September of 2004 and have been enjoying it ever since. It was in that September that I decided to read the KJV Bible all the way through, front to back, every word. Not long after I started reading the Bible I discovered this website. I was already not a xtian when I started reading the Bible. A lot of my friends were asking me why I visited this website since they thought I was never a xtian. They didn't know me when I lived in California. I'm now 42 and have lived in Seattle for 10 years. I was born to a "non-practicing" Catholic family. I attended church ocasionally for about 16 years.

Some of my extended family members attended church regularly. My grandmother is still a devout Catholic and my mother went back to the faith when I dropped xtianity all together at 17. When I was about 8 or 9 some cousins and friends started going to a Baptist Sunday school and I went along. The first counple were really fun. We played games and socialized and just plain had fun. Then on third Sunday the coolest, hippest pastor who was always such a nice guy started taking kids into a room to talk with them one on one. When my turn came he had this little plastic Jesus (an idol) and told me that I was a sinner and that I was doomed to Hell for all eternity. He scared the hell out me, made me cry and feel really bad. Holding up the idol of Jesus he told me that I would be forgivin of my sinful ways if I just asked Jesus into my heart. So I did and he stopped making me cry. That was the last time I attended a Baptist Sunday School. So I considered myself still a xtian Catholic but rarley attended curch.

When I was 17 there was kind of a "born again xtian" movement at my highschool. Me and my friends kinda' made fun of them. Then one day I actually sat down and had a talk with a girl who was "born again". She told me about Revelations and accepting Jesus into my heart. What she was telling me just didn't make much sense and I couldn't get a good answer from her on any of my questions. The main question was about all the other religions all over the world. It made no sense to me that "God" would punnish anyone for all eternity just for being born in a non-xtian country. Her goail was to "save" me. Instead she opened my eyes to the fact that xtianity could not pollibly be true. The story was just to "out of whack" with what humanity was all about. There was just no love in the concept of Hell. I remained a spiritual person and denounced all religions. I mean how could anyone put "God" in a "box". I would say I believed in "God" but not as an egotistical, vengful, jelous being. To me "God" was unknown. For years my friends and me would talk about philosophy, the Univrese and all that is in it. We would also bash xtianity.

I also used to love to debate xtians. They would always end up getting frustrated because there was nothing they could say to me that would get me to believe. A couple of my xtian friends even questioned their own faith after conversing with me. But I never read the Bible.

Then last August I realized that I really had no right to critisize xtianity if I've never even read the Bible. I also realized that most xtians never even read the whole Bible. I found that rather odd. I mean, if your going to dedicate your life to a faith, should't you actually read the book that this faith is based upon. So, on September 1st 2004 I took it upon myself to read the "New Open KJV Bible". A couple of xtian aquaintances told me that that was the best bible I could read. I finished reading it Feburary 28th. Every word. Old and New Testiment. I am having a very dificult time with the fact the so many people actually believe in it. Even the xtians who have read the whole thing. I had no idea the so many xtians pick and choose what they want and through away what they don't like and ignore the atrocities caused by "biblegod". You only need to read the Book of Genisis to realize what a crock the Bible is. I also found the story of Abraham appalling. God asks Abraham to kill his son Isac just to show his love. This is something God should know without tormenting Abraham. Asking a loving parent and subject to kill one of their childeren is awful anyway you look at it.

Then there's the story of Job. Just to appease Satan God makes his most loyal and loving subject suffer for years. Why didn't God just tell Satan to go take a hike. I mean, this is God almighty know everything all the time. God knew that Job loved him.
Why did God send the Jews to Egypt in the first plac? He knew they would eventualy become enslaved. Then he calls on Moses to free the Jews from slavery and lead them to the promised land. Only he didn't mention that someone already lived there. Of all the unpopulated land in world back then he has to lead them to an occupied country. Then he orders the Jews to kill every man, woman and child in the cities thay are invading and when the Jews don't kill all the women and childeren God punninshes them. That is just sick. No loving being would do that.

I can't even believe how a woman could be a xtian with the way women are treated in Bible. And whats with women pastors this day and age. It says in the Bible that women are not even aloud to talk in church. I could go on and on about the sexism.
Then theres this Jesus guy who upholds the law of Moses.

Jesus never denuonces slavery. Slavery is and always has been one of the most evil institutions of humanity and God and Jesus support it. Jesus Supports sexism. Tells people to hate their families. Tells people they will suffer for eternity if they do not believe in him. I fail to find the love there. The whole Jesus concept is totally silly. Xtians tell me "God killed his only son for you". Come on, people die everyday. God is God. He can have as many sons or daughters as he wants.

I also have a problem with faith. Moses new he was a Jew and after he was exiled he herded sheep and had a family and seemed to be doing pretty well. Then God spoke to him from a burning bush. Since God actually spoke to Moses then it is no longer faith. Would Moses have led the Jews out of Egypt if God never showed himself to him? God actually talked to the profits so they had no use for faith. Paul was persecuting xtians and only stopped whe Jesus spoke to him. Once again Paul did not have faith. It seems we're all just supposed to have faith with no proof. Once there is proof one no longer needs faith. If God decided to show himself/herself/itsef to me I would surely believe and would not be by faith but by proof and I would know the existance of God to be true.

I also have a problem with something Jesus says: "It is easier for a camel to walk thruough the eye of a needle than it is for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God. Wealthy xtians seem to igore this phrase. Since I've been alive a camel has never walked through the eye of a needle. Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson, Ray Buchanan, Rev. Schuller, The entire Bush family are filthy rich. They are all hard core right wing xtians. Why does the bible offer so many riches in heaven? Why doesn't it just offer peace, love and happiness? Thats all I want. I have no desire to live in city with walls of jewles and streets of gold. That would be a kind of hell.

Anyway I guess I could go on and on with my bible rant but I think most of you know and understand where I'm coming from. For all of you who were raised xtian fundamentalists or who actually gave their heart and soul to xtianity only to eventually be disapointed, my love goes out to you. I know it took a lot courage to realize the truth and reject xtianity. You are all true heros. I hope one day all religions will cease to exist in humanity and the world will truly be blessed with love, peace, and happiness.

Hutch


Sex: male
City: Seattle
State: WA
Country: U.S.A.
Became a Christian: Birth
Ceased being a Christian: 17
Labels before: Catholic & Baptist
Labels now: Agnostic/Atheist
Why I joined: Born into it
Why I left: It just didn't make sense

Comments

Follower_Of_Christ said…
Hello, all

I would like to start this comment by asking why all of you consider yourselves "Ex-Christians". After reading through all the comments on this topic, it is clear to me that NONE of you were real Christians at any point in your lives. I AM a REAL Christian, and I would have to say that you all seem to have many misconceptions about Jesus, God, and the Bible. I, as a REAL Christian, will gladly admit that I don't have ALL the answers. I myself have gone through times of doubting whether or not this whole "Christianity" thing is real or not. It was in those times that I began to read the Bible with a critical eye. I basically did what many of you did, except I found good, Godly guidance from MY youth pastors and pastors. Having come from a Pentecostal church, I have never had the strict, legalistic view of God and Christianity that many of you seem to have had growing up. I never saw Christianity as a RELIGION so much as a RELATIONSHIP with Christ. But I digress... The reason I decided to post this is because I would like to comment on some of the points raised that I see as misconceptions. Firstly, the "Vengeful" God who committed "atrocities" in the old testament IS the same God that sent His song to die for our sins. The new testament is not meant to blanket over the horrors of the old testament with fluffy, happy, post-pentecostal feelings. It is to show God extending the "favouritism", as some might call it, that God showed to the Jews in the old testament to ALL people. However, I understand that you are all entitled to your own opinions on these things, and I am BY NO MEANS trying to "convert" you. It pains me to see such a perversion of the Bible painted as the TRUTH, and it angers me to hear some of the things that many of you are saying about the God that I have committed my life to. I would like to say that I have PERSONALLY witnessed miracles. For example, one woman who attended Avonhurst (my church) was diagnosed with Cancer, and soon found herself in the hospital with several tumors. While many would have lost hope, Lee-Anne turned to God. Our church held several prayer meetings for her, all of which were BY NO MEANS legalistic or traditionalist in their nature. They consisted of fervent prayer and worship of our God. During this time, however, the doctors were making no headway into helping Lee-Anne. They had discovered that the kind of Cancer she had was a fast moving one, and even after her treatments started, she was not responding to them. It seemed that the doctors could do nothing. One day, however, after one of our prayer meetings, we got a phone call from Terry (Lee-Anne's husband). He said she was feeling amazing, and she didn't hurt at all. After a few tests, the doctors were baffled to see that all the tumors were just GONE. They couldn't explain it, and neither can I, except that God listened to our prayers, and answered us with the healing of Lee-Anne. So... In conclusion. Can all this REALLY be false? Have I based my entire life on a lie? I would have to say "no". I have seen with my own eyes the things that Jesus can do, and I will continue to follow him in all that I do. While I by no means claim to be perfect, I DO try VERY hard to follow Jesus' example. Even you who have a problem with the old testament God, what do you have against Jesus? What did HE do wrong? He loved all, and he taught only good morals. So I say to you, even if you WERE a real Christian, and have turned on God, I still love you, and while your comments DO anger me, I understand that you are entitled to your opinion, as much I may disagree with you. Oh, and as an afterthought. I would like to say to the person who commented on "intelligent Christians". I happen to consider myself a VERY intelligent Christian. It takes SOME level of intelligence to get a B.A. at the U of R and get a M.A. at Carleton. I would have to say to all of you that you should try reading the words of Christ to get an opinion of Christianity. Indeed I do not believe in Old-Testament-God-Ism as the basis for my life. I believe in CHRISTianity. Which is based on CHRIST. I now leave my post to be butchered by the closed minded who will no doubt read this and scoff. To you I say, do your worst. While my GOD knows all, I don't. But I will try my best to answer any questions you may have.

And with that I say good bye.
Jim Arvo said…
FOC: "...it is clear to me that NONE of you were real Christians at any point in your lives. I AM a REAL Christian,..."

When I first read this, I was *sure* it was a joke. But it appears that FOC is completely serious. I'm not even going to bother with this now, as this sort of thing has been asserted a million times, and it's been debunked a million times. To FOC I would simply say this: How absolutely rude of you! I suspect that you are either too self-absorbed to appreciate what others have experienced, or you are too lazy to actually read many of the testimonies here. If there is some other explanation, please provide it.

FOC: "Firstly, the 'Vengeful' God who committed 'atrocities' in the old testament IS the same God that sent His song [son] to die for our sins...."

Exactly! And your point is what?

So, you freely admit that the god you worship is the very god who condoned and commanded grisly acts of violence: dashing pregnant women to pieces, slaughtering entire populations, mutilating animals, condoning rape and slavery, commanding that children be stoned to death, commanding the death of adulterers and "witches", etc. Do you deny any of that? Are you are okay with all that? If so, what, in your view, makes it okay? Does might make right?

FOC: "However, I understand that you are all entitled to your own opinions on these things, and I am BY NO MEANS trying to 'convert' you...."

Good. Let's see if what you have to say subsequently is consistent with this.

FOC: "It pains me to see such a perversion of the Bible painted as the TRUTH,..."

Ooopsie. In the very next sentence it seems you are not so very tolerant of those different opinions, are you? They are no longer "opinions" but "perversions", and we are not offering reasoned arguments to support our opinions, but to you we "paint them as TRUTH" (all caps).

FOC: "...and it angers me to hear some of the things that many of you are saying about the God that I have committed my life to."

Okay, so you're angry because we think your belief system is based on faulty reasoning and distortions of fact. If you disagree, go ahead and find the flaws in what we are saying. Getting angry proves nothing. Furthermore, devoting your life to something does not mean it's true. Hindus, Buddhists, Muslims, and Mormons all devote their lives to beliefs that you deem false. Is that correct? Have you any difficulty is seeing that millions of people the world over are deeply committed to things that just aint so?

FOC: "I would like to say that I have PERSONALLY witnessed miracles..."

Okay. If you think they were miracles, and you want to believe in the god of Abraham (in lieu of hundreds of other possible deities), then please, go right ahead and do so. If, for some reason, you wish for us to believe you, then you will need to substantially back what you are claiming. Again, people the world over claim fantastic things and attribute them to different deities, occult forces, etc. I've looked into quite a few claims such as yours, and three things are invariably true: 1) the story is always inflated somewhat to sound more fantastic than what actually happened (everybody loves a good story), 2) while the events may be "unexplained," they are never unheard-of, and almost always involve an illness that is either difficult to diagnose or is subject to spontaneous remission, and 3) the story deftly ignores all the cases in which prayers were ignored. (A relative of mine died of cancer at the age of 9, despite massive prayer vigils. I guess you're going to tell me that the answer was "no" in that case, right?)

FOC: "Even you who have a problem with the old testament God, what do you have against Jesus? What did HE do wrong? He loved all, and he taught only good morals."

Broadly speaking, I think the Jesus figure is a laudable one. I put him in roughly the same class as Confucius and Buddha (although, in my opinion, Buddha stands out as the most consistently compassionate). Some of the teachings of Jesus are particularly fine; his admonition to love one's enemies, to turn the other cheek, to care for the poor, and to recognize one's own shortcomings before disparaging others are all exemplary (if a bit vague in some instances).

However, the Jesus figure is without fault. (The Jesus legend is not quite so refined as that of Buddha.) For example, he commanded that love for him supercede love for one's own family, he condoned violence against non-believers (both indirectly through parables, and also directly: e.g. "It is better to tie a millstone around their neck..."), he very irrationally cursed a fig tree because it did not bear fruit (out of season!), he rashly rebuked people, calling them "fools" and "hypocrites", if they did not understand his meaning, and (ironically) he sometimes *purposely* couched his messages as obtuse parables so that some would NOT understand. There are more, but that should suffice to answer your question.

Incidentally, I'm not convinced that such a person ever existed. The evidence is extremely scant and ambiguous. But even if the Jesus myth is based on an actual itinerant preacher 2000 years ago, I think it's extraordinarily clear that the Jesus that is portrayed in the gospels is largely a late invention. We can get into that if you wish.

FOC: "...I happen to consider myself a VERY intelligent Christian. It takes SOME level of intelligence to get a B.A. at the U of R and get a M.A. at Carleton..."

Very impressive. Now, do you apply this intelligence by reading widely? For example, have you read many scholarly works that critically examine Christianity? If so, can you please name a few?

FOC: "...I now leave my post to be butchered by the closed minded who will no doubt read this and scoff..."

That's extremely rude. I thought you said we were entitled to our opinions? I don't believe I've butchered anything you've said. I've disagreed with you, and I've tried to explain WHY. I've also rebuked you when I thought you were being rude.

Now, if you wish to proceed with a civil discussion, I'll be happy to oblige you. It's up to you.
Jim Arvo said…
That should be "However, the Jesus figure is *NOT* without fault."
Follower_Of_Christ said…
All right...

I WOULD like to apologize for some of the things I said...

I just got a little hot under the collar when I accidentally stumbled across this topic while I was searching for some Christian resources...

I apologize for calling your opinions "perversions"...

One thing I would like to comment on, however is that Jesus does NOT condone violence against others...

In the verse you mentioned, he was being metaphorical...

He was NOT telling people to go and drown people by tying millstones around there necks, but was saying that it would be better for them to have that happen to them than to have to face the eternal consequences for their actions...

Also, when Jesus was approached in the garden of Gethsemane, and one of those who were with him injured one of his attackers, he healed the injured man and rebuked his follower saying "Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword".

Also, in regards to your comment on miracles. I am VERY sorry to hear about your loss. I too have lost people despite COUNTLESS prayer vigils...

As I said, I do not know everything, and as hard as I try I can't see why God allows such things to happen...

In closing, I would like to apologize IMMENSELY for any comments I said that offended you...

That was a clear case of speaking without thinking...

This will be my final post, and I would like to wish you all the best in your quests for truth, regardless of the roads you take...

Fare thee well...
.:webmaster:. said…
"One thing I would like to comment on, however is that Jesus does NOT condone violence against others..."

Throwing people into an eternal pit of horrific torture for not believing in the right version of the right religion is not violence?

Fare thee well, fare thee well.
Anonymous said…
I am truly amazed at the 'holier than thou' attitude exhibited by "REAL CHRISTIANS".

This, in part, is another reason why I find Christianity hard to digest.

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