I can only imagine...
sent in by anonymous
If I hear the song I can only imagine one more time, I'm going to be physically ill. Has anyone ever heard of the artist Mercy Me? I personally can't stand him. And of course I hate the song I can only imagine. Well, this is my story. I was raised in church. I got baptized early on. Well, 17 or so. Then I turned 21 and got into partying and did that for a long time. Till about say 28-29. I was just getting too old to be in the clubs with the early 20's bunch. They were starting to laugh. Saying things like "he's the Hulk Hogan of the club scene". Meaning I didn't know when to hang it up. That my time in the clubs had long since passed. And they were right. You're only in your early 20's once. As that bunch of clowns will soon find out when THEY'RE the ones being laughed at for being "too old".
Right before turning 30, I decided to give church another try. So I did. I had returned to being a christian. Things went okay for awhile. But then as I got to know more people, they started to really push the envelope. They knew good and damn well that I had been a party animal for a long time. I had struggles. Instead of helping me, they badgered me. If I missed a social on a Friday or Saturday night, they automatically assumed I had fallen back in with my old crowd. Well, I was getting discouraged to say the least. My friend who I had known from the party scene who first got me involved in church kept on saying "give it more time". Then, finally, enough was enough.
I had a tendancy to listen to him a little more because he knew where I came from seeing as how we had been in the club and bar scene together. But, as time went on he was getting more and more like them. He was getting very ill with me as time went on because I was not "progressing" like he had been. For instance, at the point he had been at that church for 9 months, he had done this, this , this and this. I had been there 9 months and still did the bare minimum. That seemed to irritate him to no end. I did not know how much plainer I could make it to him and to that so called "Sunday School Group" that I was NOT going to commit to that church UNLESS they backed down a little on their commitment policy.
When you become a member you commit that your church is by all means number one. Period. To the point that if your family is in any kind of trouble and you are by their side, if your church calls you, you are to leave their side AT ONCE. Church is at the top. NOTHING supercedes it. IF your job tells you to go out of town on business and you will be gone on Sunday morning, tell them no. Get fired, fine. But church WILL NOT be over ridden. Well, I was not about to sign anything to that effect. I told my friend that while my job runs Monday-Friday and I am free on the weekends, I can't promise that they'll never send me out of town. His reply, "not good enough". He claims he has actually told his employer no a couple of times because it would put him out of town during what would normally be service time. Now, I don't know whether or not this is true. He's pretty high up at his company, so maybe he's got enough pull to say no to them and live to see another day.
I on the other hand do not have that kind of pull. If I were to tell my employer no, guess what. Bam! I no longer work there! Well, just recently came the final straw. My now former Sunday School teacher basically called me out for attempting to "hook up with" a non christian. Number one, I was not trying to "hook up with" this awful awful person! This girl is a friend of mine. Yes, I think she is cute. I would not mind if she was my girlfriend. But I wasn't trying to hook up with her. She gave me a hug and a kiss on the cheek because I had recently had a family dispute with my parents. Comforting. That's all she was doing. But, because she has a tattoo, that is BAD! Kiss on the cheek, BAD! Hugging someone you're not married to, BAD! And guess what. Church. Done. Over. Pack it up and go home. I had had enough.
Initially my plan was to move on to another church. But, I was so fed up, I just said forget it. And so ends my second stint as a christian. If a girl who is a friend of mine can't even embrace me when I need it out of fear I might get a little aroused, then what's the point? So what if we're not married. We are close friends. Isn't that what God would want? His creatures to comfort one another? She was not trying to arouse me. She was comforting me. But, we can't be doing that! Plus, during the time I was at that church, this same Sunday School Teacher chastised others IN THE CLASS for hugging! You must hug from the sides ONLY! Face to face initiates arousal! As an added bonus, I'll never have to hear the song I can only imagine by mercy me again. That seemed to be the theme song for that church.
Well, thanks for everything. I hope to hear more and more stories of people breaking away. It's about damn time.
State: Alabama
Country: USA
Became a Christian: Ages 10-22 then again from 29-30
Ceased being a Christian: stopped at 22 then stopped again at age 30
Labels before: What churches or organizations or labels have applied to you?
Labels now: What labels, if any would you apply to yourself now?
Why I joined: Raised in church
Why I left: At 22 because I just didn't want to do it anymore At 30 because of all the crap being shoved down my throat from people like Mercy Me and a crazy Sunday School teacher.
If I hear the song I can only imagine one more time, I'm going to be physically ill. Has anyone ever heard of the artist Mercy Me? I personally can't stand him. And of course I hate the song I can only imagine. Well, this is my story. I was raised in church. I got baptized early on. Well, 17 or so. Then I turned 21 and got into partying and did that for a long time. Till about say 28-29. I was just getting too old to be in the clubs with the early 20's bunch. They were starting to laugh. Saying things like "he's the Hulk Hogan of the club scene". Meaning I didn't know when to hang it up. That my time in the clubs had long since passed. And they were right. You're only in your early 20's once. As that bunch of clowns will soon find out when THEY'RE the ones being laughed at for being "too old".
Right before turning 30, I decided to give church another try. So I did. I had returned to being a christian. Things went okay for awhile. But then as I got to know more people, they started to really push the envelope. They knew good and damn well that I had been a party animal for a long time. I had struggles. Instead of helping me, they badgered me. If I missed a social on a Friday or Saturday night, they automatically assumed I had fallen back in with my old crowd. Well, I was getting discouraged to say the least. My friend who I had known from the party scene who first got me involved in church kept on saying "give it more time". Then, finally, enough was enough.
I had a tendancy to listen to him a little more because he knew where I came from seeing as how we had been in the club and bar scene together. But, as time went on he was getting more and more like them. He was getting very ill with me as time went on because I was not "progressing" like he had been. For instance, at the point he had been at that church for 9 months, he had done this, this , this and this. I had been there 9 months and still did the bare minimum. That seemed to irritate him to no end. I did not know how much plainer I could make it to him and to that so called "Sunday School Group" that I was NOT going to commit to that church UNLESS they backed down a little on their commitment policy.
When you become a member you commit that your church is by all means number one. Period. To the point that if your family is in any kind of trouble and you are by their side, if your church calls you, you are to leave their side AT ONCE. Church is at the top. NOTHING supercedes it. IF your job tells you to go out of town on business and you will be gone on Sunday morning, tell them no. Get fired, fine. But church WILL NOT be over ridden. Well, I was not about to sign anything to that effect. I told my friend that while my job runs Monday-Friday and I am free on the weekends, I can't promise that they'll never send me out of town. His reply, "not good enough". He claims he has actually told his employer no a couple of times because it would put him out of town during what would normally be service time. Now, I don't know whether or not this is true. He's pretty high up at his company, so maybe he's got enough pull to say no to them and live to see another day.
I on the other hand do not have that kind of pull. If I were to tell my employer no, guess what. Bam! I no longer work there! Well, just recently came the final straw. My now former Sunday School teacher basically called me out for attempting to "hook up with" a non christian. Number one, I was not trying to "hook up with" this awful awful person! This girl is a friend of mine. Yes, I think she is cute. I would not mind if she was my girlfriend. But I wasn't trying to hook up with her. She gave me a hug and a kiss on the cheek because I had recently had a family dispute with my parents. Comforting. That's all she was doing. But, because she has a tattoo, that is BAD! Kiss on the cheek, BAD! Hugging someone you're not married to, BAD! And guess what. Church. Done. Over. Pack it up and go home. I had had enough.
Initially my plan was to move on to another church. But, I was so fed up, I just said forget it. And so ends my second stint as a christian. If a girl who is a friend of mine can't even embrace me when I need it out of fear I might get a little aroused, then what's the point? So what if we're not married. We are close friends. Isn't that what God would want? His creatures to comfort one another? She was not trying to arouse me. She was comforting me. But, we can't be doing that! Plus, during the time I was at that church, this same Sunday School Teacher chastised others IN THE CLASS for hugging! You must hug from the sides ONLY! Face to face initiates arousal! As an added bonus, I'll never have to hear the song I can only imagine by mercy me again. That seemed to be the theme song for that church.
Well, thanks for everything. I hope to hear more and more stories of people breaking away. It's about damn time.
State: Alabama
Country: USA
Became a Christian: Ages 10-22 then again from 29-30
Ceased being a Christian: stopped at 22 then stopped again at age 30
Labels before: What churches or organizations or labels have applied to you?
Labels now: What labels, if any would you apply to yourself now?
Why I joined: Raised in church
Why I left: At 22 because I just didn't want to do it anymore At 30 because of all the crap being shoved down my throat from people like Mercy Me and a crazy Sunday School teacher.
Comments
I don’t believe it’s our place to go around pointing fingers and telling each other what we think each other is doing wrong, I believe that is for God to decide. Jesus said:
“Do not judge, or you too will be judged.” [Matthew 7:1]
AND
“Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.” [Matthew 7: 3-5]
I believe that God wants us to, not only, love Him with all that we are, but to love each other as we love ourselves. Perhaps those who you’ve encountered at churches have no love for themselves. If that is the case, that is very sad and I believe they are missing out on the joy that comes with having a true relationship with God. Is loving your neighbor as yourself always an easy thing to do? No way! In fact, I would say that sometimes it's seems impossible. People are different and don’t always see eye to eye on things. This website is a perfect example. However, God has given us an example of what we should strive toward in that we should try to treat others as we, ourselves would like to be treated, even when we disagree.
“Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind; and, 'Love your neighbor as yourself." [Luke 10:27]
I see in these posts, over and over, the judgment many of you have encountered and I am sorry that it has come from those who call themselves “Christians.” The Bible says:
“for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God” [Romans 3:23]
BUT it is because God loves us that we have hope:
"For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.” [John 3:16]
It is only by His grace that we are saved not by what we do, or who we know, or who we hang out with or don’t hang out with or how much we volunteer at Sunday School or whether we even go to church or not:
“For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast.” [Ephesians 2:8-9]
As one who has experienced much of the same condemnation like that of these posts, who also left the “church” for several years I just want to say that I hope and pray that you will someday realize that it’s not about the “church” or "Christianity" but about a God who is real who loves you and wants to have a relationship with you. Many people want “proof” that God exists and I can say that God has done so many wonderful and miraculous things in my life that it’s not possible for me NOT to believe anymore. Here are just a few examples:
As a child, I once was having such bad pain in my back that I had laid around for several hours in tears. My older brother, who was a new believer, laid hands on me, and (I know it sounds hokey) but as he prayed, I felt warmth in my back and the pain disappeared. Even though I was just a child, I knew God had healed me.
Just a few months ago, I was helping my mother who is a widow and was recovering from heart surgery. I had done something to hurt my knee. It felt like I had a tendon that kept “clicking” and every day, the pain was getting worse and worse until one night I was almost to the point of needing help to walk. Being a working mother with two children and the responsibility of caring for my mother and no time to go to the doctor, that night I prayed and said, “God, I have too many people that are depending on me right now. If it is your will, would you please heal my knee?” When I woke the next morning, the pain was gone, and has not returned.
The final example involves my son who has a genetic disease which is potentially very serious. At the time, he was three and a half and scheduled for several tests. I was worried sick. One morning, as he slept, I was crying and praying for him and praying that God would put His angels around him to protect him. At that very moment, it was as though a picture flashed in my mind of my son sleeping in his bed with a large angel standing next to the bed with beautiful white wings encompassing the bed and my son. At the same time, I was overcome with a sense of peace that was truly unexplainable. It was then that the following passage in the Bible truly became a reality for me:
“Do not be anxious about anything, but in everything, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God. And the peace of God, which transcends all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus. [Philippians 4:6-7]
The story doesn’t end there either. I am happy to say that my son’s tests all came out normal and about two months went by and I was with my sister in the china department of a large store waiting for her to talk to the sales clerk. As I wandered around, something caught my eye. In one of the cases was a statue done by a Christian artist. It depicted a large angel whose wings were encompassing the bed of a sleeping boy. My heart literally skipped a beat. It was exactly as I had seen my son in my mind while praying. The boy looked just like my son, the bed looked like his bed, he was lying in the same position, and the angel looked exactly the same and was in the same exact position. I was dumbstruck. I felt as though it had been made for me. I wanted to buy it, but it was quite expensive so I didn’t. Some time later, I was shopping with my husband, who believes in God but is very nonverbal about it. I was a little hesitant, because I was afraid he might think I was kooky, but I showed it to him anyway and told him the story. Unbeknownst to me, he was so touched, that he went back the very next day to buy it for me for Mother’s Day and I keep it as a reminder of God’s love. I have to say that the boy in the statue looks so much like my son that I took a picture of it into work one day, showed it to a friend and asked him who he thought it looked like. He said, “That’s your son, right? Was he in a play or something?” I then explained the story the story to him and he was utterly amazed.
I can only hope and pray that anyone who reads this may give the idea of believing in God and Jesus another chance. Don’t look to the “church” or “religion” to find peace and happiness. You will surely be disappointed. Look to Jesus. He has promised that if we seek Him, we will find Him:
“Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives; he who seeks finds; and to him who knocks, the door will be opened.” [Matthew 7:7-8]
God Bless ~
I have never been treated badly. I did use my brain and the intelligence that was gathering within the neurons to learn that it is all a fable, a myth, nothing more. I left the "relationship" because it was the logical thing to do. Just as a child learns that Santa is not real, he/she is a little depressed. Soon the depression goes away and the child is normal. The same thing happens when the truth, christanity being a myth, is realized by adults. There is the sense of lose but quickly replaced by "the truth has set me free"!
I will never give jesus another chance just the same that I will never give Appolo a chance!
God won't punish you for living in La La Land, and he won't punish us for realizing that there is not one verifiable instance where he has intervened in the affairs of man.
But until you have lived without the shackles of mysticism numbing your brain, you haven't really lived!
From the logicists that dont believe, i believe that sometimes you dont need to see to believe, it might seem logic that there is no god, but think about it. There is an earth that is HUGE, that has AMAZING features such as mountains, feilds, oceans, hills, forests, plants, animals and much more right? Humans live on this earth, and we are the dominant species. But how could we? You look at lions, tigers, sharks and all those other ferocious, beasty, savage animals on earth and yet we are STILL the most dominant! Evolved from apes you say? How could we?! Apes dont talk! They dont use words. So where did words come from then? And how could there be male and female? How can they be attracted to each other and reproduce and have offspring? And we have the universe! It makes the earth look tiny! Infact i have heard that there are more stars in the universe than the grains of sand on all of the beaches!!!! Where did the universe come from? Were they formed from gases and particles? How? How is it possible for gases n particles to move? From oxygen? Where did that come from? There are SOOO many questions that cannot be answered but i tell you that from the proof that God is real is from experiences. I have seen people weep beside me during praise and worship at curtain events on at my church (Which is Hillsong, WOOO go Hillsong) and even i have wept with joy during a praise and worship night after i had been prophesied over... Its the BEST feeling that cant be described and needs to be experienced. And also i have a youth leader at my church. He told me he was totally athiest, hated God completly, got drunk and smoked and swore heaps. He then got saved during his teens and is now in Bible College becoming a Preacher and another youth leader went to church with his parents when he was young, he wasnt into it much so he rebelled and began drinking and smoking and partying during his teens. He ended up getting saved and then got back into the church and is also in Bible College becoming a Preacher.
So yeh i hope that what i said has sorta helped. I just want to say that Christianity isnt about being religious, all it is is having a relationship with God, the same as having a relationship with your friends and by talking to God you pray and hearing from him you read his word (the Bible). You choose if you want to spend time with him, but God wants to make your life prosperous, he loves each and everyone of us that much, that is why he sent his son to die for us. Even if you have turned away or have done wrong things he will still love you. God Bless
PS: Excuse me if what i said is not that good, i am only 14 =(
Welcome to this site. I hope you will take the time to read more of what is posted here, and to continue asking questions. Questions are good. I'm not going to try to persuade you about anything, given that you are only 14 (thank, by the way, for telling us that). But, please allow me to give you a slightly more realistic picture of the regular contributors at this site. Regardless of what you believe, I think it's always a good policy to understand what people are saying--even those you disagree with. It's all too easy to make incorrect assumptions about those with radically different beliefs, and to inadvertently vilify them. (I'm not saying that you have done this, but it happens here on a regular basis.)
You said "i believe that sometimes you dont need to see to believe, it might seem logic that there is no god, but think about it."
You are absolutely right about sometimes "believing in" something that is unseen. Just look at the amazing things that science has uncovered, such as atomic theory, the structure of complex molecules (e.g. proteins and DNA), etc. These are "unseen" in that they can only be inferred through experiments and macroscopic observations. Yet, we have a very high degree of confidence that they are there, and that our models of them are accurate. This confidence comes from the ability of those models to *predict* entirely new phenomena, and then to set up experiments that can verify those phenomena.
You implore us to "think about it". If there is one little think I can get you to ponder, I hope it is this. Most of us here have spent many years (in my case over four decades) thinking, reading, studying, discussing, and debating. We have thought VERY HARD, most of us, and we have tried to be as honest as we can be. Many of the contributors here have been devout Christians, some for decades, and even pastors and preachers. We (the regulars here) have reached one common conclusion regarding Christianity (that it is a myth), and that is virtually the only common thread that unites us here. You are free to disagree! Nobody (I hope) is trying to dissuade you about your religion. Your religious conclusions are YOURS to make.
One last thing I'd like to mention. You ask a whole series of questions, of the form "How could that be?". Those are great questions. But remember that they are QUESTIONS, not answers in themselves. Scientists ask the very same questions, then attempt to answer them as best they can. Many of your questions can indeed be answered to some degree, but that's no my point. My point is that we cannot CONCLUDE anything from our own IGNORANCE. Put another way, if we do not know the answer to some deep question about the universe or humanity, then the most honest reply to such a question is simply "I don't know". In the view of most of the regulars here, religionists too frequently jump to the conclusion that "god did it" rather than simply admitting ignorance. In fact, that tendency is so widespread that it has a name: It's called "god of the gaps" (i.e. god is invoked to explain those things we have yet to explain in natural terms).
Okay, I'll stop my rambling here. I hope you keep asking questions. I'd be happy to discuss any of your specific questions with you further if you so desire, but at some point I will simply admit that I do no know (nor does anybody else, as far as I have been able to determine).
Best wishes to you.
I can only image what it would be like to deny Jesus, the son of God.
I can only imagine what it would be like to deny the existence of God or any so alike being.
As if the neurons and protons came into existence by themselves. From out of nowhere. No guidance. Just Bang! Millions of well-structured neurons and protons that make up the human body and brain and the rest of the world.
This denial might bring some luck, even a notion of the real joy knowing that religion is bunk, but in the end out of ignorance comes loneliness... emptiness...
Rather support Ann's comment that ends with the words:
Don’t look to the “church” or “religion” to find peace and happiness. You will surely be disappointed. Look to Jesus. He has promised that if we seek Him, we will find Him.
You were almost on to something, but you made a grave error in your assumptions. You got down to the neutrons and protons and rightly so, you determined they had to come from somewhere... The problem is that you took a leap off the bridge of knowledge into a sea of faith by assuming supernatural power of the christian kind once you couldn't rationalize anything any further.
There is a huge gap in information between observing atoms, and determining that the cause of them was when a worship hungry supernatural deity, who didn't require a creator himself, created the universe and man, and for the sake of man eventually needed to impregnate a human and have a son to sacrifice for all of the "sins" and evil of humanity, saving us from eternal damnation in a hell that the very same god created as a part of everything in the first place.
Confusing?? Tell me about it.. I count at least 6 leaps of faith in that one paragraph... And I am simplifying things.
To add to the confusion a bit, according to your infallible bible the only way to the father is thru the son, as if they were 2 different entities. How could you worship the son and the father without having 2 gods?? Oh, that is right, Jesus is just a third of the whole: Father, Son, Holy Spirit. So now we can really break it down:
Your god impregnated a human so she would give birth to the very same god, so the god could be sacrificed to the god, to appease the god... And anyone who believed in this sequence of events would not perish, but have everlasting life?
Now, can you see how a rationally thinking person might have a problem swallowing that jagged little pill? Could anyone ever get the point across to you that your beliefs are simply loopy from our point of view?
I could go more in depth, but instead I encourage you to look around this site and learn from it. Read a few testimonies, check the archives for interesting tidbits. I would hope that would also lead you to realize that very few of us non-believers are in need of salvation from "ignorance, lonliness, and emptiness". Being that we are ex-christians, we see ourselves as already having escaped those pitfalls by leaving faith and finding ourselves.
Just do some earnest reading. It won't be hard to imagine if you avail yourself of the hundreds of scholarly works that examine Christianity critically. I'll even give you an extensive reading list if you're actually interested in learning about another point of view.
Eddy: "I can only image what it would be like to deny Jesus, the son of God." of "...the existence of God or any so alike being."
You needn't imagine very much at all. You deny the existence of Zeus, I presume. And you probably do not bow to Allah. You probably think that Hermes and Isis are myths, right? Then what's to imagine? We just have one more invisible sentient being on our list of imaginary entities than you; the god of Abraham (and, of course, his other manifestations, and his entourage of angels, and his evil adversary and his minions).
Eddy: "As if the neurons and protons came into existence by themselves. From out of nowhere. No guidance. Just Bang! Millions of well-structured neurons and protons that make up the human body and brain and the rest of the world."
That's quite a fanciful little just-so story. Where did that come from? Careful with those straw men! If you have any interest in science, you could begin to fill in that huge void and experience some of the true wonder of this world we inhabit.
Eddy: "This denial might bring some luck, even a notion of the real joy knowing that religion is bunk, but in the end out of ignorance comes loneliness... emptiness..."
Another just-so story. Again, where did that come from? On what do you base that nonsense?
Eddy: "...Look to Jesus. He has promised that if we seek Him, we will find Him."
You refer to Deuteronomy 4:29? Well, now you seem to have painted yourself into a corner. In order for you to maintain that belief, you must somehow deny that all those who left your faith failed to "seek Him". All the former pastors and preachers, all those who devoted years and years to "His" service and worship, all those who prayed earnestly for some help or guidance; they ALL somehow failed not only to *find* your deity, but they do not even qualify as having *sought* him. Please do explain.
Oh, and please do read Rot8inganode's reply above.
Yeah, I was in a praise band in high school and our entire band absolutely hated that damn song "I can only imagine." We weren't a part of any church, but we were attached to a youth/young-adult bible study. We just refused to ever play the thing, despite people literally begging us to.
Eventually, we got so tired of it being requested that we started making up lies to keep from playing it: "It's too high for our lead singer's vocal range" "we haven't figured out the cord progressions yet..." etc. My Dad knew better but never called us out for the trickery--he didn't care for it either. Mom on the other hand was heartbroken, and kept insisting that "Ya'll are great, I'm sure you can do it! Please, we'd really like to hear it after closing prayer..." *shivers* She was rather insulted when I took her aside and told her the truth that the band voted unanimously that that song was the worst piece of crap to come off the radio that year.
The head study manager/leader also really wanted to hear it... But we didn't get along very well with him (although I adored the small group leaders) and I bet he thought we were avoiding the tune just to spite him. The next year, they got a new band because we all graduated from our respective high schools and colleges. The new band played it for everyone. The study leader also started being a lot more "preachy" instead of leaving the discussion and study up to the students.
This change to adult lead study wasn't welcome, as the students involved had really liked having the freedom to discuss, study, and question the word of the bible together without anyone telling us what you had to believe or what the "right" answers were. We had enjoyed being equals in study, where the opinions and thoughts of someone in doubt or confused were just as valueable as those of a more firm believe. Personally, I tended to run somewhere in the middle: accepting some, but not all of the word... Because of the changes attendence plummeted. Non-fundamentalists, like me, had no desire to be a part of that foolishness.
With that said...
Changing churches does not make Jesus any less imaginary.