Lord why have you forsaken me!
sent in by Mark Fouche
Well....where should I start? Like all Christian cliché stories I will start by saying that I was brought up in a Christian home, Christian family and Christian community. Now my whole life I believed in Christianity as being the way....yet never really thought about it or had the "revelation" ceasing my heart and convicting me to turn to God. I had dabbled in witchcraft and the occult and was always interested in that which was unknown.
Now my whole life I had suffered rejection in some sort of sense and I remember crying myself to sleep at night when I was younger praying to God to just kill me, or for Jesus to help me as I felt so alone.yet my prayers were never answered. I carried on through life almost committing suicide at the age of 11 or 12.
Things got better until at the age of sixteen I lost almost all my friends by something i did. This drove me into depression and loneliness, I became "broken". I started going to a youth and was enveloped with warmth and friendship, this ignited my emotions and I became a fervent believer. In 3 months I became a youth leader. i was contempt with my life. I became so bold that at school I stood up at break in the midst of the crowd and would preach the word. I studied the word daily and prayed daily. I held prayer meetings and had an all night prayer where we waited for the "baptism of the spirit". I preached at school and in youth. we went to centers and preached the gospel. went on camps where we "experienced the holy spirit". Had emotionally driven rallies where you would get goosebumps and shout out to Jesus.
When I left school I went to YWAM(Youth with a mission) where I did mission work in south Africa and Zimbabwe.Experienced the manifestation of the Holy Spirit! In this I started getting weary. I did not understand the tongues movement, slain in the spirit, laughing ,crying,etc. I never experienced it , and when i tried I felt more depressed. Eventually I gave into it believing it was true!I came back home and was offered the chance to start preaching in the main services at the age of 19! I gladly accepted and started preaching to the best of my ability. I then had to study theology for this. I did not understand half of what i was learning, it raised more questions. Predestination, God's character, love, sin, the holy spirit ,etc. I battled to discern what was true and what was false. People kept telling me, "don't focus on things like that!" or "you shouldn't ask those questions!". So I shoved it under the carpet! Started studying full-time last year for ministry and preached often, yet in that preaching, the only person I was preaching to was myself,. I preached to convince myself! I never saw peoples lives changed! I prayed more and more, and searched! I wrote journal entries in which I speak my frustration!
I quit the ministry and started a job requiring long hours, in 2 weeks I snapped out of my mindset and my questions flowed. No longer were they shoved under a carpet, but i was tired of ignoring my doubts. I ran out of faith to just believe in God and believe above the doubts. People say I think too much, I say that I don't know how not to think. I stopped praying because I noticed my prayers caused more harm than good. I got tired of putting my hope in something that ALWAYS let me down. He was a friend whom I was told to trust, who let me down in every way. Every rejection or pain I felt rose up again and I realized I was broken even more and had more weight on my shoulders!
My friends question me and I happily talk to them, their response to my questions and comments are "I don't know" or they just respond in the old Christian cliché "I just believe" or I have faith. I questioned someone on faith. If Mohammad had to come in blazing light and fire and say "Jesus is not the way , I am" would you still believe in Jesus. The answer? Yes! Faith is blind! The blind will lead the blind in the hole as the scripture so says! Nothing is proved in Christianity, It is all assumption....based on no fact!
Have I fully denied the existence of God? No... I have more rebelled from Christianity and ran from this Jesus that I have come to hate. How do I love someone I don't even like?! I don't love God, and I don't know how to, This God that loves me is the only source of power to save me ....yet he chooses not to! I am always told "It's a choice" I did not choose to be born. God knows where I am going...before I was born, he knew my choices. Yet he still chose to give me life! Life into damnation! What am I to feel? Maybe religion is a crutch for people to stand on when there is nothing else to turn to! I tried and came from it all.A question to people I know is this " you knew me when I had great faith, I believed myself that I would never stumble...look at me now!Where was Faith?Where was God's saving power?
As I always say and will finish with this end. It has been about 6 months since I took my first step away, and I have realized this one thing. Whatever you shove under the carpet now,you will trip over later. My questions are too great for me to believe or follow anymore!
Durban
KZN
South Africa
Joined: 16
Left: 21
Was: Methodist,Charismatic,preacher
Now: Rebellious,influenced
Converted because: Was Lonely and "broken"
De-converted because: Became even more broken and hurt
email: markfouche at yahoo dot com
Well....where should I start? Like all Christian cliché stories I will start by saying that I was brought up in a Christian home, Christian family and Christian community. Now my whole life I believed in Christianity as being the way....yet never really thought about it or had the "revelation" ceasing my heart and convicting me to turn to God. I had dabbled in witchcraft and the occult and was always interested in that which was unknown.
Now my whole life I had suffered rejection in some sort of sense and I remember crying myself to sleep at night when I was younger praying to God to just kill me, or for Jesus to help me as I felt so alone.yet my prayers were never answered. I carried on through life almost committing suicide at the age of 11 or 12.
Things got better until at the age of sixteen I lost almost all my friends by something i did. This drove me into depression and loneliness, I became "broken". I started going to a youth and was enveloped with warmth and friendship, this ignited my emotions and I became a fervent believer. In 3 months I became a youth leader. i was contempt with my life. I became so bold that at school I stood up at break in the midst of the crowd and would preach the word. I studied the word daily and prayed daily. I held prayer meetings and had an all night prayer where we waited for the "baptism of the spirit". I preached at school and in youth. we went to centers and preached the gospel. went on camps where we "experienced the holy spirit". Had emotionally driven rallies where you would get goosebumps and shout out to Jesus.
When I left school I went to YWAM(Youth with a mission) where I did mission work in south Africa and Zimbabwe.Experienced the manifestation of the Holy Spirit! In this I started getting weary. I did not understand the tongues movement, slain in the spirit, laughing ,crying,etc. I never experienced it , and when i tried I felt more depressed. Eventually I gave into it believing it was true!I came back home and was offered the chance to start preaching in the main services at the age of 19! I gladly accepted and started preaching to the best of my ability. I then had to study theology for this. I did not understand half of what i was learning, it raised more questions. Predestination, God's character, love, sin, the holy spirit ,etc. I battled to discern what was true and what was false. People kept telling me, "don't focus on things like that!" or "you shouldn't ask those questions!". So I shoved it under the carpet! Started studying full-time last year for ministry and preached often, yet in that preaching, the only person I was preaching to was myself,. I preached to convince myself! I never saw peoples lives changed! I prayed more and more, and searched! I wrote journal entries in which I speak my frustration!
I quit the ministry and started a job requiring long hours, in 2 weeks I snapped out of my mindset and my questions flowed. No longer were they shoved under a carpet, but i was tired of ignoring my doubts. I ran out of faith to just believe in God and believe above the doubts. People say I think too much, I say that I don't know how not to think. I stopped praying because I noticed my prayers caused more harm than good. I got tired of putting my hope in something that ALWAYS let me down. He was a friend whom I was told to trust, who let me down in every way. Every rejection or pain I felt rose up again and I realized I was broken even more and had more weight on my shoulders!
My friends question me and I happily talk to them, their response to my questions and comments are "I don't know" or they just respond in the old Christian cliché "I just believe" or I have faith. I questioned someone on faith. If Mohammad had to come in blazing light and fire and say "Jesus is not the way , I am" would you still believe in Jesus. The answer? Yes! Faith is blind! The blind will lead the blind in the hole as the scripture so says! Nothing is proved in Christianity, It is all assumption....based on no fact!
Have I fully denied the existence of God? No... I have more rebelled from Christianity and ran from this Jesus that I have come to hate. How do I love someone I don't even like?! I don't love God, and I don't know how to, This God that loves me is the only source of power to save me ....yet he chooses not to! I am always told "It's a choice" I did not choose to be born. God knows where I am going...before I was born, he knew my choices. Yet he still chose to give me life! Life into damnation! What am I to feel? Maybe religion is a crutch for people to stand on when there is nothing else to turn to! I tried and came from it all.A question to people I know is this " you knew me when I had great faith, I believed myself that I would never stumble...look at me now!Where was Faith?Where was God's saving power?
As I always say and will finish with this end. It has been about 6 months since I took my first step away, and I have realized this one thing. Whatever you shove under the carpet now,you will trip over later. My questions are too great for me to believe or follow anymore!
Durban
KZN
South Africa
Joined: 16
Left: 21
Was: Methodist,Charismatic,preacher
Now: Rebellious,influenced
Converted because: Was Lonely and "broken"
De-converted because: Became even more broken and hurt
email: markfouche at yahoo dot com
Comments
Thank you for your story and welcome to the group. The "christians" will be showing-up soon to tell you that you never loved yourself and, therefore, could never love Jesus (trust me, they always show-up with that one). I never learned how to love myself as a child, either. It is part of the programming. They get you to buy into the self minimalization by convincing you that you are not worthy and that your life on earth is sinful and not important. Remember, your reward is in heaven. In the meantime, the church leaders have their reward on earth?!?
Hang in there, friend. You'll find the ex-christians here quite friendly and the christians a bit challenging (a few show-up and actually act "christian", you know Christ-like, non-judgemental).
Welcome,
-Bob
I welcomed you as Durban (silly me, I see that is your address).
So, welcome Mark Fouche...
-Bob
ministering 7 nights a week with a full time job. Those who are gifted,talented are the most abused and dissolusioned in church,
I'm glad you made it out okay!
peace ,..freedy
I think there is a very good reason why we are taught to "not be unequally yoked" or to attend meetings/cell groups etc. regularly. I believe that a psychological dependence on church/cell/brothers-in-christ etc. is fostered from which it can be painful to escape.
I stopped attending church to try and find my way, and once I was able to think clearly, away from the perpetual bible-thumping, I was able to finally choose a path in life free from bondage. It's ironic that I now think of my time as a fundamentalist Christian living in Cape Town as being a time of mental bondage.
Good luck on this new chapter of your life.
Cheers
Stephan
Its great to see it when intelligence wins out over indoctrination. Well done to both of you.
It fascinates me to watch the televangelists on TBN and see how they tell bald lies to their flocks. I like to divide the preachers into two camps. There are the intelligent guys who obviously do not believe a word of their own preaching, but they do it because they get huge rewards from conning their followers. I put Benny Hinn in this category.
In the other camp we have the ignorant morons who could not hold down a job in any other field. They believe the word and think everyone else should too. Perhaps the ultimate example of this is Kenneth Copeland. I love watching him spew forth stuff he clearly does not understand.
Its not by chance that here in South Africa the TBN channel is amongst the cartoon and astrology channels.
Also fron Durbs
The answer from the Bible is that God is testing you. Do you preach because you want to be seen as holy, righteous, respected, and informed? Or do you preach because of a burden on your heart? I think, more than any other person on the planet, God would like to know why it is that we do the things we do. So He tests us.
Psalm 105:19. I imagine you know what it means. But think about what it meant to Joseph when he was in prison. God had told him he would be great. And he became a slave. Why?
Just my thoughts... In summary. Prosperity gospel sure works well when everything is peachy. But when problems arise, God is testing your mettle.
Christ's indentured servant.
blank_slate
blank_slate - It's obvious that your job is not the only mind-numbing situation that you suffer. Please come back when you are willing to accept the real truth. Thanks.
With a god like this who needs enemies.
Would you stay with a spouse who continually ignored you when you needed him/her most, and made your life miserable because they wanted you to come crawling to them? Of course not. So why would anyone put up with that in a supposedly loving deity? Sorry, but your God is way too human, and not only that but he embodies the worst traits of humanity. Your God doesn't live up to my standards of what a decent human being is, I'm certainly not going to worship him.
I also can't understand why anyone would be happy being "yoked." Morons.
Shannon, your comments crack me up and are right on. Keep up the good work!
Regards, Carol
Some day I hope you find that you have been lied to, by the church, by people claiming Christianity, and by the people here on this website. Wake up! You've been duped! And it wasn't by God.
If there was any chance that maybe for a split second you saw truth and experienced God's love in a real way and handed your life over to him..Then he still hasn't let you go, no matter how ridiculous you act.
You taunt the people that said you would never fall away.(first of all how the hell would they know?) Then..Where did you fall to? Neither heights or depths, bad ideas, horrid experiences, stupid website influences or misconceptions of Jesus Christ can ever separate you from the love of God.
I can tell you really don't get it, so please don't claim yourself and ex-christian, there is no such thing.
"If there was any chance that maybe for a split second you saw truth and experienced God's love in a real way and handed your life over to him..."
Exactly! You better convert to Islam before it is too late! I do not know your age, but you life could end at any moment and Ali is awaiting your decision!!! However, I do not believe you will repent your blasphemous ways and Ali will have no choice but to torch your ass for all eternity!
Have a nice day!
cdmon said, "I beg to differ, I am an ex-xian, and if you would like to meet me in person I will prove to you that I exist. Or ask any of the other ex-xians on this site to meet you in person."
I am in Fort Worth, Tx.
This is freeman. I was agreeing with you against Anonymous! I am an ex-christian also and if Anonymous would like to meet an ex-christian, I am in Fort Worth.
Cheers and peace!
If there was any chance that maybe for a split second you saw truth and experienced God's love in a real way and handed your life over to him..Then he still hasn't let you go, no matter how ridiculous you act.
You taunt the people that said you would never fall away.(first of all how the hell would they know?) Then..Where did you fall to? Neither heights or depths, bad ideas, horrid experiences, stupid website influences or misconceptions of Jesus Christ can ever separate you from the love of God.
I can tell you really don't get it, so please don't claim yourself and ex-christian, there is no such thing.
Experienced gods love in a real way....what is Love? You do not know...What is god? You do not know.
You just like all fundies, are just repeating something you've heard before, and it has absolutely no meaning to anyone.
Personal relationship with an invisible god...come on..get real.
No one has ever had a personal relationship with an imaginary being.
Jesus was set up by his mother to perpetrate a fraud so that she and joseph would not be stoned to death.
Jesus was told since birth that he was from a god and he was stupid enough to believe it, the three wise men were so wise, they forgot to mention their names, how convienent.
The bible writers;
Matthew, who? Mark, who? Luke, who? John, who? Saul/Paul, who? Acts, who? Corinthians, who? Timothy, who? Romans, who? Galations, who? Hebrews, who? etc. who?
God who?
god nor jesus, never wrote any part of the bible. Why not? because they do not exist.
Come on people wake up, it's 2006, jesus is dead forever, he's not coming back, read Mark who? ch9 vs 1
Read Mark ch 9 vs 1 READ IT
Read Mark ch 9 vs 1
Read Mark ch 9 vs 1
Yo, Einstein---how 'bout all the people your "loving" holy ghost presumably cast into the proverbial "lake of fire"? I mean, seeing as how it's your god, your heaven, your hell, YOUR concept(and that's all it is)....surely you're not going to sit there and say that the people sitting in "Hell" aren't ex-christians, are you? What?...they're still Christians? ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!!
Speaking of, we got a "live one" in the "A letter to Christians" thread. LOL!
Wow, you apparently haven't read the Bible much. See, that's the whole problem with you Christians, you don't read the book for yourself. You pick out the nicely typed passages from your Sunday bulletins that support your own image of God and pretend the rest doesn't exist. Fact is, your "God of love" holds grudges, unfairly blames people for things they didn't do, burns them for eternity, hates people for no reason, kills or commands the killing of children, condones gang rape, demands bloodshed for appeasement, etc etc. It's all right there in your Bible, take a gander sometime before claiming the Christian God is one of love.
' Sorry, but if it's legitimate to "BE a Christian" by pure subjectivity, then it's legitimate to be an EX-christian by pure subjectivity. Therefore, if there are such things as Christians--- there ARE such things as EX-christians.
God 'less.
This is my first post. I love this site and the truth that is expressed here which is based upon people's real experience of betrayal within Xtianity.
This is in stark contrast to the lies and half truths of Christianity, which I am certainly glad I have renounced and utterly rejected.
I struggled with Xtianity for 7 years before finally getting tired of twisting my consciousness in knots trying to understand what cannot be understood. It cannot be understood because it is illogical and irrational. There is not a shred of historical evidence for JC.
This is because JC is an expression of an archetype and is a mythological figure the predates Xtianity...ie...Isis/Horus et al. The archetype myth figure/story is overlayed with Xtian interpolations and dogma. yeah ok...ie.....we were all seriously flawed sinners and god had to violently bloody his son to save his pathetic creations. Doesn't do much to foster a sense of self worth and esteem now does it? And how brutal and primal is that? This is the primitive tribal mentality of 2000 years ago projected onto this god and belief system.
This is a deeply hurtful and traumatic experience and requires deep soul healing my friends. It wounds you deep in your heart and innermost soul. We are all humans and need to have faith in our lives.
I had to get in touch with my deep rage at being betrayed by a lie. I gave my sacred trust and faith to a god that did not reciprocate. I needed to feel and let go of all the false guilt, shame, rage,fear, and anger to heal. This is because Xtianity manipulates and controls people with fear and intimidation.
I wish all of you X- Xtians the best in this great leap you are all taking in your humanity, evolution, and authentic spirituality.
Rob
Thanks for those of you who have supported and understood my testimony. I'm still getting through the process and it's not easy.
To the anonymous person who posted the comment, it is christians like you and your opinions that frustrated me and turned me. I tried my hardest to accept Christ. You say have a relationship. How? You say pray? oK i did...nothing happened...now what. Oh I didn't have faith? OK ...how I get faith? Pray? But I need to have faith. How do I love God? How do I love Jesus? I'm trying but my mind is in the way. Read your bible you say? Ok.... but wait, I don't like what I see. Now what? Have faith and just believe? But I can't! Not because I don't want to, I just can't! I don't know how!
I have tried and tried and tried. I am tired! Exhausted! Run to Jesus? I can't even get up off the floor. I don't see footprints on my beach because I collapsed and no God is carrying me.
You don't know me... I tried to leave my pain, suffering, troubles, worries, DOUBTS, in God's hands.... That crutch snapped right under me.
I wait for you response to this. I have a meeting with my minister in thursday...one who I have not seen in 6 months . He still thinks I'm going into ministry. The area meeting was held to discuss me going forward... I have to tell him what I have told you. I have merely scraped the tip of my ice burg and can have my debate some other time.... people who know me, know that I knew exactly what was right. I knew it so much that I knew I was not to question. well no more. The only answer I get for my questions are.... I just believe... and I dont know.
My question to you is " Is God questionable.....when you have doubts? Or are you to just walk blindly?"
I cannot say that I know what you are going through. At my worst, I was only an agnostic and at my best an atheist. I’ve been an eavesdropper/voyeur on this site for almost a year. The pain and betrayal that you feel appears not to be unusual. Religious detoxification seems to be a combination of a death and divorce.
For so long, you’ve been told and believed that there are only two sides - god’s and the devil’s and if you are not with god your with the devil. There is a solid black line that divides these sides. One side seems solid and the other is a dark, dismal abyss. You’ve crossed that line and jumped. Right now, you feel like you’ve “fallen.”
As with everything, time will help to sort things out and the rawness of betrayal will lessen. You will find that instead of jumping into an abyss, you actually climbed out of one and onto truly solid ground.
And on that solid ground...
Peanut butter will still be peanut buttery good and chocolate will still be chocolaty good. And Reese’s peanut butter cups should still be considered manna. (Hey, we all have to have something to live for and sometimes simple is the best).
The giggles of a two-year old is still the purest sound to be heard.
The desert outside of Vegas, nights with a harvest moon, and fireworks on the 4th of July is all still wondrous.
But, in my opinion, the greatest thing you will gain is not feeling the failure of not being perfect.
Hang in there and keep climbing. This side is worth it.
Shannon
"Hey guys and gals sounds like a
rough road you have been on.
Where do you go from here?
Can you recover?
Have you checked out other
beliefs around the world
to see which one fits you
best?
An observer"
Stephen
I have found a a belief that I like Steven. It's called "Rational thought" It's played like this: I try to get through each day, meeting all challenges, doubts, fears, and triumphs, without referencing any religious dogma. I try not to ask favors from any imaginary people, or dead people. If I happen to involuntarily exclaim OH God!, during any daily activity, I always put in a disclaimer (If there is one)
So far it is working. The only problem I have with it is that I have become convinced that most people will never follow me in giving up their religiosity, because it is to scary for them, and they are too comfortable with letting some simple minded priest or preacher telling them what to think.
Dan
Yeah Stephen, we've been all around the world searching for other beliefs, just like you have:-(
What the hell does a belief offer any one person that has ever lived?
Nothing, once you have a belief, thats all you'll ever have, a belief.
Thanks for your story, but I fear that you have had such a negative reaction to "Christianity" because you were encouraged by false teachers. Keep searching the Word.
Sincerely,
Mark Evans
God 'less.
Clint (personal friend of Jesus)
Clint...
Hyper-religiosity: a real word, describing a mental illness. The Teen Challenge uses Hyper-religiosity to replace Drug addiction, and then you're told Jesus healed you. The Charismatic churches attract a lot of broken souls who sign on for this.IMHO
John Lennon: Imagine a world with no religion.... Hey, then we might not have wars....Imagine THAT?
I'm not an atheist. But I can tell you that organized religion has turned SO MANY people against God. Shame on organized religion. But they are so brain-washed, that it's virtually impossible to have a rational conversation with them.The followers are making all the money for the smart bastards sitting at the "top". THAT'S not Christ-like.
Mark, hang in there. You may want to check out Universal Unitarians. NON-RELIGIOUS group of wonderful, loving people. Definately not a shame-based organization.
Bren.
Hyper-religiosity: a real word, describing a mental illness. The Teen Challenge uses Hyper-religiosity to replace Drug addiction, and then you're told Jesus healed you. The Charismatic churches attract a lot of broken souls who sign on for this.IMHO
John Lennon: Imagine a world with no religion.... Hey, then we might not have wars....Imagine THAT?
I'm not an atheist. But I can tell you that organized religion has turned SO MANY people against God. Shame on organized religion. But they are so brain-washed, that it's virtually impossible to have a rational conversation with them.The followers are making all the money for the smart bastards sitting at the "top". THAT'S not Christ-like.
Mark, hang in there. You may want to check out Universal Unitarians. NON-RELIGIOUS group of wonderful, loving people. Definately not a shame-based organization.
Bren.
All the best, Mark
Now, I've found someone who really makes sense. Check out Einstein's excerpt on Religion and Science. I find it very enlightening! Well, that's my 2 cents.
http://www.sacred-texts.com/aor/einstein/einsci.htm
Humanity has been manipulated and enslaved by revealed religion (all of them). What power you wield if you not only control a man's life but his immortal soul. But once you get over the anger of being duped, you can embrace the spirituality of Christianity that the early Christians understood before it was usurped and used by the Roman empire and Catholic church.
The Christ story was allegorical, not literal. A new religion that advocated nonviolence and love, kindness and generosity. A mythical allegory encoding mystical teachings. If the new testament is read in this manner, the myths become a way of conveying spiritual truths that work on many levels.
I wish you all well in your spiritual journey . . .it's a long one.
We(most of you who have written) question everything which is good....We question life because we are on a higher plane than most. We see things a lot clearer. Most people can live their lives with blinders on....I would love to trade emails/talk with any of you -indawilderness@yahoo.com. I blame people not Christ for the horrible things going on around us. Whether you believe in God or not, we...who feel more, hurt more, are the true leaders...we can touch people's hearts.
I saw a movie recently - Always - (I am putting it into my own words) where they said that we(people like us) have more Spirit than ordinary people....and, to do something for ourselves is a waste of Spirit....for me it is a waste of His Spirit! I am only alive when I am helping others. BobW
This this Mark Fouche, the one that posted this testimony. I probably did this about 2-3 years ago.
Thanks to ALL your responses, they all made some contribution in my life.
Just to keep you on the update, its been a LONG road. I mean things just didnt stop where I thought I might have wanted it to!
My thoughts and doubts and faith didnt stop , it carried on and my mind became even more boggled. There was a time where i became very indifferent of everything and couldnt care but it did not last long.
I tried going to church a few times again, yet everytime I went I struggled and I could not listen to the preacher because I almost felt like he didnt know what he was talking about.
I tried reading my bible but then my logic would step back in and would break it down.
I could not resort to athiesm, something inside of me stil creates this burning for something more.
In some sense I have the feeling that I am missing something, almost like there is something not clicking into place. It is that same feeling that you have when you have forgotten the name of a song and you cannot remember it. You try and forget it but it bugs you the whole day. Its like your so close to finding it out you cannot just put it aside.
Something is wrong somewhere and I dont know what it is.
I fear the fires of hell everyday yet my mind convinces me that God cannot exist. I am in such turmoil.
I am becoming even more aware about how much shorter my life is looking. Life does not seem an eternity anymore, it feels so delicate that it could disappear any minute.
Im not back in church, I dont know if im christian, ive forgoten all the teachings but still know what matters.
I dont really know what to say.
My website is www.markfouche.blogspot.com and my email is markfouche@telkomsa.net if you want to respond.