A Jimmy Swaggart Story

sent in by Chris

Twenty years ago, when I was 15 years old, I was struggling terribly with my sexuality. I realized that I was gay about three years earlier, and I totally freaked out. I was depressed and suicidal. At about that time, I had the misfortune of seeing Jimmy Swaggart on television. I ordered his religious magazine, The Evengelist. When it arrived, I read an article in which he said, "All a homosexual needs to do is accept Jesus Christ as his savior and he will no longer be a homosexual."

I was a gullible, naive 15-year old, so I was thrilled to find the antidote to my unwanted sexuality. Remember, this was in 1985. It seems so recent, but things were much different then than they are today. Today, at least people talk about sexuality. But 20 years ago, people rarely spoke about these things at all. Telling someone that you were gay could be an admission greeted with shock, anger or even a fist to the nose.

I desperately wanted to change my sexuality. This man of God, Jimmy Swaggart, said that all I needed to do was accept Jesus as my Savior and I would be instantly transformed into a guy who wanted a girl instead of another guy. I accepted Christ without a thought. Of course, my sexuality didn’t change instantly, but I kept trying, always trying to live up to the image of perfection that this hypocrite preached about over television.

That began years of addiction to Pentecostalism and the hope that I could pray away my sexuality. I started to regularly attend an Assembly of God church in my area. My Catholic parents were very bothered by this and rightly didn’t consider it a healthy development.

I attended that church for a couple of years until, one Sunday, I was asked to come to the pastor’s office after service. When I did, the pastor and two elders told me that they knew I was gay. I argued briefly with them, but the pastor looked me right in the eye and simply said, “We don’t want you to come here”.

Remember, I was young and na├»ve. I didn’t know that there were churches in existence that actually told people they weren’t welcome. I was so vulnerable at the time and the rejection devastated me. It felt like a spiritual rape. Even twenty years later, I remember that pastor’s name. Pastor David Welle of the Wyckoff Assembly of God in Wyckoff, New Jersey. I will remember that man’s name until the day I die. Anyone who has had the misfortune of undergoing any kind of trauma at someone else’s hands knows exactly what I mean.

I actually got on an airplane and visited Jimmy Swaggart Ministries five times. Yep, five times. I met the Swaggart family personally and shook their hands on more than one occassion. During one visit, a sermon was preached in which they referred to people as queers. What a jolt that was. I can still remember the feeling of numbness and shock.

Of course, I no longer follow that spiritual pervert now, but for years, I was damaged emotionally and spiritually by his attacks on gay people. In my 20s, I came across some free thought literature. When I read it, my faith fell away almost instantly. I am a logical person by nature, and when I see logic, I know it. Christianity is not logical. In fact, upon even the most casual examination, Christianity completely falls apart. The religion is just a joke.

I looked up to Jimmy Swaggart. But when I matured, I realized that I was such a fool to believe that I would be tortured for all eternity if I accepted who I was. People like Swaggart claim to have the truth, but they wouldn’t know the truth if it came up and hit them in the eye.

Fanatical religion is incredibly dangerous, especially for people who are in a vulnerable state of mind. Jimmy Swaggarts attacks hurt a lot of good people, especially because of the fact that they are done in the name of God. That shameful family has hurt and devastated an incredible number of people, gay and straight alike. Many lost their faith because of the way they were treated. Now, I am 35 years old. And guess what? I love who I am! I am a good person who has great friends and a profitable business. I am a freethinker and associate with like-minded people.

I am also a New Yorker. Over the weekend, I visited the American Museum of Natural History. They are currently running a Darwin exhibit. As I stood in that exhibit, I was deeply moved as I realized that, finally, once and for all, I am done with the superstition and ignorance that tainted so many of my years. I am free, and I am happy!

New York
NY
USA
Joined: 15 years old
Left: 25 years old
Was: Assembly of God
Now: Agnostic/Logician
Converted because: I wanted to become heterosexual
De-converted because: I found free-thought literature and realized that they were right.
email: chrislamparello at aol dot com

62 comments:

Rising_L said...

Can I just start by saying well done for accepting who you are. I can't begin understand how hard it would have been for you, as I am not gay, I just wish you could have realised yourself that you were born like that and that you didn't need anyone elses permission to be yourself. Therfore avoiding the pain of rejection and 'Spiritual Rape'.

May I ask how did your parents react?

WELL DONE!!!

Kaye said...

All religions are based on conditional love, if you'll join their church and become as them, they will love you, if you will lick up the preachers and the members, they will love you, if you do not abide by their philosophy and rules, they will hate you and ostrasize you, as you have found out.

It's not just homosexuals either, religions descriminate against different races and economic status and a myriad of other issues, some loving god eh?

Who runs the church, god or the preacher?

Anonymous said...

Chris,

Thanks for your testimony I can really relate. We all remember Jimmy Swaggart and the prostitutes at cheap motels. What a hypocrite.

I'll be you money the bastard is still "doing it" on the side.

Good luck to you buddy.

Salvatore said...

"Come on, Chris!"

"Don't you love God?"

"Just change, man!"

"If you would only let Christ change you!"

"You know in your heart that you truly desire women, but you're only seeking out other men to be in rebellion!"

---

Perhaps you've heard that sort of crap (or will hear it).

When I speak to Christians now on the matter of homosexuality, I put it like this:

When I first laid eyes on my wife, when she walked into the room, I was immediately captivated. My heart was enraptured with desire. My eyes were a slave to her. There was nothing that could diminish my attraction for her.

Christians often nod in approval as they remember their own experience when first meeting their spouses.

THEN, I say: imagine a man who, when another man walks into the room, has the same exact feelings. Can he help himself? Can he deny those feelings? Is this something he can "just change"?

Coming to Christ doesn't change a straight man's desire for women; what fool should expect it to change a gay man's desire for men?

A day is coming when all the religions of the world will be eliminated. Humanity will look back with humor at our primitive days.

Serge said...

Hi Chris,

First I want to say I'm sorry to hear the insult you received by this Pastor and probably many other Christians. I believe they are wrong to say one life issue is worse then an other. Please don't take this the wrong way but as you know in extreme cases people can be born with both female and male genitals or male genital and have breasts. What then does the Church think of these people? No matter what side they choose, certainly they would be excepted by the Church. How then are these people different from a gay person who's difference lays on the inside, and have also chosen a side? I am Christian and I believe that God loves all those who give their hearth to Jesus! I am no theologian but there is no doubt in my mind that those who do not allow gays to be a member of their Church are wrong to do so. I also believe that a Church is merely a building and that you don't need to be a member of any denomination to be a Christian. Nobody but God Himself can take that away from you and He has already PROMISED He would never forsake you. I truly hope you think back on your days as a Christian and see past the bullshit and remember the MAIN message which is of love and equality in Jesus Christ! I hope you know that there are people like me who love you the way you are!

I don't know how to wrap this up, I just was moved by your testimonial and wanted to say that Christians are not all that narrow minded, yes many are, they are of course just people like anyone else and can be very ignorant and blind! However, TRUE Christianity is between you and God and NOBODY can tell you otherwise or take that away from you.

Anyway, you are a very articulate and talented writer. I will pray However, that you start writing about other things. ;)

Best wishes...

Serge

jim earl said...

Chris: Thanks for sharing your story with everyone. When I was much younger, I have to admit that I was a bigot in many ways. I was also christian. Now that I have found the truth, I no longer harbor ill feelings toward anyone. People may choose many things about their lives, but the choice to love our life mate is not something we have the luxury of choosing. We are born with that already in our system. I look forward to the time when a man is judged by what he does in life, not by who he loves. When religion ends, bigotry will end as well. Until the time when we truly love others for who they are and nothing else, we will continue to have problems. Religion is the leader when it comes to these problems. People seem to have a need to tell others how they should live and who they should love. When I became a freethinker, my whole life changed for the better. Good luck to you and yours.

Bob (Been There, Got the T-Shirt) said...

Hi Chris,

Great story! So, you decided to make a "lifestyle choice" change? Christianity is a lifestyle. You are not born with it. You can change, if you just reject those evil urges! There is no proof of a "christianity" gene. Oh sure, many men and women take on the christian lifestyle because of traumatic events in their childhood - you know, a special "uncle" or mommy/daddy coming into their rooms late at night for "special visits". With professional help, you can learn to get past those childhood "hurts" and learn to repent that christianity is just a poor lifestyle choice with many harmful side-effects: such as AIPs - Acquired I (don't know what to do with my) Penis Syndrome. Jimmy Swaggert had it, he would go to prostitutes, show them his penis and then proceed to spread his "seed on the ground", very unusual disease. It's God's rath for being an asshole televangelist!

Chris and everyone here,

Please excuse the AIDS analogy - AIDS is NOT a JOKE! I was on a role...

I didn't really try to get to know gay people until I was in college. I would "freak" if a gay man hit on me prior to college. I wouldn't get violent, I would just go through that typical straight male thing - "does he know something about me?", "am I gay? oh my gaawwd". I would get introspective and pray for my soul. In college (after six years of the Army), I learned to politely inform the person that "I was hopelessly straight" and then continued the friendship.

A close high school friend of mine's name is on the quilt. We lost close contact when we both went into the military. I talked to him after we both got out. He got a "medical discharge" from the military (before he had AIDs). A medical discharge was often granted if they found out you were gay. I wish I could have been a better friend for him. He was a victim in the early stages of the epidemic, no one knew what to do.

Just to add to what other people have said... I firmly believe that a person is genetically programmed to be gay or bi. Many of my gay friends privately admit that they wish they had been attracted to the opposite sex when they were growing-up, life would have been sooo much easier. It is hard to be a young teen (hormones, changing bodies, etc.), add on the pressure of being gay....!!!!

Chris, be happy that you have found your freedom! I am happy for you!

-Bob

Chris L. said...

To Serge: Thank you for your response. You've said what many Christians have said to me after hearing about how I was treated by the church. "A true Christian would never treat anyone like that" and so on.

All I can say to you and people like you who always fall back on that old "a true christian never would've..." canard is that I have never been treated kindly by a single Christian after they discovered my sexual orientation.

In my dark decade in Christianity, not one Christian ever treated me with a shred of dignity once they knew they truth. Amazingly, not ONE. People like you always come along after the fact and say the same thing, but I remind you of a scripture that you and your fellow believers seem to have forgotten a long, long time ago. It's called The Golden Rule. Maybe it rings a bell: "And just as you want men to do to you, you also do to them likewise. (Luke 6:31, NKJV)

You are wrong in your post. "True Christians" most certainly DO treat people like garbage. You need only peruse this board and read the stories of hundreds of others who have posted here. I now count it a privilege to be amonst this fine group of free thinkers.

Your offer of prayer is simply a common ruse which is used by Christians of all stripes. It's a way of putting someone down by saying, "You're not spiritually right, and I know better and am going to petition God on your behalf because you are obviously too deceived to do it for yourself."

You continue the spiritual abuse, and it's such an ingrained part of your small-mindedness that you don't even notice yourself doing it anymore. Your game is up, and millions upon millions of Americans now see you and people like you for exactly what you are: psychological misfits who are devoid of any real kindness, sincerity or that word you always so casually throw around in your churches these days: truth.

Anonymous said...

Chris, I can understand your trauma trying to live life as a homosexual in the unfriendly world of religion.

I am bisexual and felt tortured by my attraction to each sex. Not only was I raised to respect and revere religion, but at the same time I was being damned by it. This made no sense to me. I knew that if God created everything, then he created me too, just the way I was, not the way somebody else wanted me to be. But, even though I kept my sexual orientation secret, I knew that I would be hated and feared by many if they knew. I had to hide part of myself.

I was already skeptical of religion and this fact that God made me this way also made me so skeptical of religion that I nearly started calling myself an atheist but I still had doubts. I was trying to mentally survive in an all-consuming religious world that it seemed hard to believe that I knew something the religious believers didn't. I kept asking myself, Am I wrong? How can so many believe it to be true if it isn't?

I finally happened upon a book by Dan Barker, called Losing Faith in Faith. I read it and instantly felt (earthly) spiritual kinship with Dan Barker. In that one book, he told me what I already knew, but he gave me the ammunition I needed to fight back. While I always had self-respect, I didn't have any mechanism for self-defense in the world of religion. I didn't know how to use their tools against them, instead of them using their tools against me.

After having such a clear understanding of who I am and what God wasn't, I became such a well-settled person. I no longer have to doubt whether there is a god looking over my shoulder constantly keeping tabs on whether I am a good person or not. Luckily, I didn't get drawn into religion as deeply as you did, but I can see how that happened to you. It could have happened to me, too. Thankfully, we both got out alive because some people don't.

Lorena said...

Chris,

I also became a Christian because of Jimmy S. What a waste of our precious time huh?

And I deconverted because of the way the church treats gay people. Let me explain.

I have some annoying personality traits that stem from not having been taught social skills. I was raised in a fundmentalist home by an abusive, egocentric mother, thereby learning some of her annoying habits.

The church people never accepted me. There was always something I was doing wrong. There was always something that Jesus had to heal me from, something else to ask for forgiveness about.

One day I realized that I just couldn't change. I was who I was. And realized that many gay people have been trying so hard for years to change, but they can't. They just can't.

This led to my conclusion that if I couldn't change certain aspects of my personality, gay people couldn't change who they are either, and we should therefore accept them and let them be.

This realization unchained a series of events that led to my decoversion.

Praise god for the gay people--I love you guys and women.


Lorena

Kevin Cadman said...

Hi Chris,

An excellent testimony. It really is ridiculous how the 'Christians' treat homosexuals. I have some friends who attend a gay-christian church and frankly, they're some of the nicest people I've met.

I too am an ex-christian that woke up after years of being stuck in a happy-clappy hyper-charismatic church -- thank goodness I got out.

I most admire the way you utterly destroyed the "good christian" Serge in his obligation to try and refute what you believe. Unfortuntely, Christianity contradicts logic, so pointing out that his religion is the reason he's devoid of any cognitive logic won't do much :)

Welcome to the site.

myqel said...

Welcome to the group Chris.

My story is very similer to yours and you can read it here:

www.exchristian.net/testimonies/ 2005/08/i-am-free-from-religion.php

Thanks for your testimony.

Jim Lee said...

Hi Chris. The Christian church of any denomination is one fraught with danger for the unwary. Every Christian I know is indoctrinated with fear. Some won't admit that fear rules their lives but it does. Swaggart as a Pentecostal is no more than a glorified hypocrite.
When anyone can turn their back on the church and walk away for good, he becomes a free man. You should not be ashamed of your sexuality. Best Wishes for the future.

freedy said...

Chris,...I too was influenced by Jimmy Swaggart in the early eighties.I almost went to Jimmy Swaggart Bible Colledge,I sure you remmember that farce.
I was a hopeless drug addict and his authortative,bigoted,hysterical
rantings appealed to my weak and desperate situation.
Your post was awesume!, and I know it will help many who stumble across this site. Welcome!

Anonymous said...

Hi Chris,

Thanks for you post. In so many ways our stories are the same except that mine all happened ten years earlier, I am 45 now. Like you I recognized I was gay at the age of 12 and was just as terrified as you were. In between my sophomore and junior year of high school I decided that a conservative church would be my only hope at changing to heterosexuality. I did not find Jimmy Swaggart, I found Joseph Smith instead. The next two years my life was devoted to the Mormon Church. They were the most miserable years of my life and thoughts of suicide were always on my mind. Unlike you I do not believe anyone at church suspected I was gay.

On day just a couple of weeks before high school graduation I was driving to Sunday services. I completely broke down and nearly had an accident because I was crying so hard. I pulled over into a parking lot and cried and cried because god did not see fit to “fix me.” For some reason I do not really understand I had an epiphany at that moment and I became convinced that the creator of universe would never be so cruel. In an instant it all became clear that no one on Earth has the answers and that we all must find our own path. I have never looked back. Today I have a wonderful life and I owe it all to dumping the idea that other people know what is best for me.


If you haven’t already, please join the Ex-Christian Forum. I go by the name “I Broke Free.”

Dennis

Anonymous said...

Chris said: "You are wrong in your post. "True Christians" most certainly DO treat people like garbage."

I was going to tell you sexuality isn't all that important; what's important is walking in love and not judging. And guess what? I'm still going to tell you: Please stop judging, my man, it'll get you know where. In that same Bible you just quoted it says, 'judge not lest ye be judged.

How do you -- or any of us -- know who is or isn't a True Christian?

You can say you don't believe in the Bible, and so what does it matter...But on common sense, and the Golden Rule (which existed long before Christ), doesn't it make sense to live and let live? Specially with Serge, Who seemed to want to cause you know harm.

Chris L. said...

Anonymous: I have no problem with Serge as a person, and if I overreacted, I apologize. His words were well-intended, and I appreciate his offer of love. But I become very suspicious when a stranger, especially a Christian, approaches me in "love". Perhaps the reason I reacted that way was due to the fact that whenever, in the past, a Christian has approached me in "love", I have been totally abused, as have many on this board.

But I am in the process of moving beyond it, and I certainly offer Serge the invitation to email me privately so that I can apologzie directly for my acerbic tone, if indeed Serge himself was offended, which is something that we have yet to determine. But I think you're right, I might have went a bit overboard there. I stand by the substance of my response to Serge, if not the ungracious tone. :)

carol said...

Chris L.,

You absolutely do not need to apologize to Serge. He is just one more creepy religious robot to come in here and parrot his nonsense.

Typically, he also knows what constitutes a "true xian" and considers himself one in spite of the fact he choses to ignore alot of the crap in his wholey babble.

He can also talk to his imaginary friend all he wants, but his imaginary friend can do absolutly nothing, nada, squat. But I do need to tell you, if you didn't see my comment Chris, is that my imaginary friend, the invisible pink unicorn, made it rain on the Rose Parade!

Welcome,carol

Serge said...

Hi Chris,

At first I was a little surprised at your initial response seeing as you don't know anything about me. However, I can understand your views negative views on Christianity due to how you have been treated and I'm sure you have heard all this before. I do want you to know that I am sincere about what I said and that there are many other like me.

quote: Chris
"In my dark decade in Christianity, not one Christian ever treated me with a shred of dignity once they knew they truth. Amazingly, not ONE."

Chris, all this does is emphasize who many people don't practice what they preach. However, I do find it rather odd that you have never met a Christian who threaded you as an equal knowing that you were gay (you do know there are Churches with gay bishops right?) I am not a good example of what a Christian should be, nor am I pretending to be one but I am not blind either and I know what it says in the Bible about how we should treat others and I see by quoting the Bible that you do as well. So don't judge Christianity by it's people but by it teachings. That is all I meant by "true Christianity".

I would love to email you and not to try and push Christianity down your throat but just to make a new friend...

Peace!

e said...

" But I think you're right, I might have went a bit overboard there. I stand by the substance of my response to Serge,"

And I, in turn, apologize to you. I understand all too well what you said about Christian 'strangers' approaching you in love. Hearing that prompts me to issue a high level terror alert. I've had very good Christian friends, and I try to be the same to them. But after a long number of years... I've learned it's normally done through actions and not with words alone.

I wish you all the best...you come off as trying to be in the right place. e aka anonymous from above

MadBuni said...

Hi, I have been away a while and am trying to catch up here.

Thanks for your story Chris, you are a very smart person.

There are many people in my life, my coworkers, members of my family, etc. who are homophobic as hell, and I think they are shameful. One coworker who was fired a couple of years ago, caught red handed for stealing money from our accounting department, was a born again. (imagine that!)

Her adult daughter came out and told her she was gay. This devistated her because her twisted religious mind told her that her daughter was a sinner. We had many conversations because she asked for my advice. My initial response was: Leave her alone, love her, her sex life is none of your business, and you will regret it forever if you cause this to come between you.

As you can guess, she ignored my advice because she couldn't open her mind and realise that SHE was the one with the problem NOT her daughter, and the outcome was just like I predicted, a disaster.

That Chris is what I am going to tell you, it is not your problem, and never was. Those ministers who told you to leave their church were narrow minded, bigoted ass holes, but they did you a huge favor because it set you on your way to finding the truth even though it was a long journey.

I am glad you found your way out. I agree with Carol you have nothing to be sorry for regarding your response to Serge. You were respectful and told the truth.

It saddens me that people judge others because of their sexual preference, color, race etc., but I view it as a mental illness, it is the result of religious superstition eating up the brain tissue of those who succomb to the myth.

I especially liked your last paragraph, where you said:

"I visited the American Museum of Natural History. They are currently running a Darwin exhibit. As I stood in that exhibit, I was deeply moved as I realized that, finally, once and for all, I am done with the superstition and ignorance that tainted so many of my years. I am free, and I am happy!"

Way to go Chris, and welcome to reality!

Chris L. said...

A few days ago, I was just sitting home at night thinking about life, and I just started laughing. I actually think its hysterical that I once actually believed that the world was created in six days with two people in a garden. And that a snake came along and ruined it for all of us.

Anonymous said...

Well Guys, great comments on Christianity, on Religion.. You think you've faced the Worst in your lives.. Left Christ, Rebelled just because say.. You weren't accepted by Christians.. Do you know what Christians in the Past Went through.. They Were actually beheaded, Fed to the Lions, Stoned but not one left Christ.. the same continues.. PERSECUTION of Christians in other lands.. Maybe you guys ought to be Put in Somalia, Nigeria(Anyways you wont need to be trust me you will see these from right where you are).. thinking too much of Sex and Bodily needs.. lets see if anyone can think of sex without food or water for weeks.. Yes my friends Far worse days are going to come.. Dont be too Comfortable thinking that you would not have to face these and that Evolution would save you.. Its Been Proved Hogwash.. Please update yourselves. And besides, Ritas, and Katrinas, Tsunamis nd earthquakes are just the Beginning.. Trust Me When the Bible Says.. "Every Knee Shall Bow.. Every Tounge Confess.." These all shall come to pass as they have been since ages.. Go on Ridicule me.. the time is not far ;)..

freedy said...

Hey anonymous coward guy! Only an idiot,(Robertson)would equate natural disasters to gaud.You are embarrassing your fellow believers with your fear-based gobbledygoop.
Please keep on posting ,for you remind us why we are no longer christians!(only a small % of us left because of the way we were treated).

freedy said...

You talk about martyrs and you won't even give out your name!
Typical christian hypocryte.

Ben said...

Anonymous, Read the book American Holocaust by David Stannard and you'll soon change your mind on christianity and religions, no it's not the bible, there are other books.

Here's a few quotes from American Holocaust:

In average two thirds of the native population were killed by colonist-imported smallpox before violence began. This was a great sign of "the marvelous goodness and providence of God" to the Christians of course, e.g. the Governor of the Massachusetts Bay Colony wrote in 1634, as "for the natives, they are near all dead of the smallpox, so as the Lord hath cleared our title to what we possess." [SH109,238]
On Hispaniola alone, on Columbus visits, the native population (Arawak), a rather harmless and happy people living on an island of abundant natural resources, a literal paradise, soon mourned 50,000 dead. [SH204]
The surviving Indians fell victim to rape, murder, enslavement and spanish raids.
As one of the culprits wrote: "So many Indians died that they could not be counted, all through the land the Indians lay dead everywhere. The stench was very great and pestiferous." [SH69]
The indian chief Hatuey fled with his people but was captured and burned alive. As "they were tying him to the stake a Franciscan friar urged him to take Jesus to his heart so that his soul might go to heaven, rather than descend into hell. Hatuey replied that if heaven was where the Christians went, he would rather go to hell." [SH70]
What happened to his people was described by an eyewitness:
"The Spaniards found pleasure in inventing all kinds of odd cruelties ... They built a long gibbet, long enough for the toes to touch the ground to prevent strangling, and hanged thirteen [natives] at a time in honor of Christ Our Saviour and the twelve Apostles... then, straw was wrapped around their torn bodies and they were burned alive." [SH72]
Or, on another occasion:
"The Spaniards cut off the arm of one, the leg or hip of another, and from some their heads at one stroke, like butchers cutting up beef and mutton for market. Six hundred, including the cacique, were thus slain like brute beasts...Vasco [de Balboa] ordered forty of them to be torn to pieces by dogs." [SH83]
The "island's population of about eight million people at the time of Columbus's arrival in 1492 already had declined by a third to a half before the year 1496 was out." Eventually all the island's natives were exterminated, so the Spaniards were "forced" to import slaves from other caribbean islands, who soon suffered the same fate. Thus "the Caribbean's millions of native people [were] thereby effectively liquidated in barely a quarter of a century". [SH72-73] "In less than the normal lifetime of a single human being, an entire culture of millions of people, thousands of years resident in their homeland, had been exterminated." [SH75]
"And then the Spanish turned their attention to the mainland of Mexico and Central America. The slaughter had barely begun. The exquisite city of Tenochtitlán [Mexico city] was next." [SH75]
Cortez, Pizarro, De Soto and hundreds of other spanish conquistadors likewise sacked southern and mesoamerican civilizations in the name of Christ (De Soto also sacked Florida).
"When the 16th century ended, some 200,000 Spaniards had moved to the Americas. By that time probably more than 60,000,000 natives were dead." [SH95]

Now you can thank your murdering jesus on a stick.

Ben said...

Continued from American Holocaust:

Other Indians were killed in successful plots of poisoning. The colonists even had dogs especially trained to kill Indians and to devour children from their mothers breasts, in the colonists' own words: "blood Hounds to draw after them, and Mastives to seaze them." (This was inspired by spanish methods of the time)
In this way they continued until the extermination of the Pequots was near. [SH107-119]
The surviving handful of Indians "were parceled out to live in servitude. John Endicott and his pastor wrote to the governor asking for 'a share' of the captives, specifically 'a young woman or girle and a boy if you thinke good'." [SH115]
Other tribes were to follow the same path.
Comment the Christian exterminators: "God's Will, which will at last give us cause to say: How Great is His Goodness! and How Great is his Beauty!"
"Thus doth the Lord Jesus make them to bow before him, and to lick the Dust!" [TA]
Like today, lying was OK to Christians then. "Peace treaties were signed with every intention to violate them: when the Indians 'grow secure uppon (sic) the treatie', advised the Council of State in Virginia, 'we shall have the better Advantage both to surprise them, & cutt downe theire Corne'." [SH106]
In 1624 sixty heavily armed Englishmen cut down 800 defenseless Indian men, women and children. [SH107]
In a single massacre in "King Philip's War" of 1675 and 1676 some "600 Indians were destroyed. A delighted Cotton Mather, revered pastor of the Second Church in Boston, later referred to the slaughter as a 'barbeque'." [SH115]
To summarize: Before the arrival of the English, the western Abenaki people in New Hampshire and Vermont had numbered 12,000. Less than half a century later about 250 remained alive - a destruction rate of 98%. The Pocumtuck people had numbered more than 18,000, fifty years later they were down to 920 - 95% destroyed. The Quiripi-Unquachog people had numbered about 30,000, fifty years later they were down to 1500 - 95% destroyed. The Massachusetts people had numbered at least 44,000, fifty years later barely 6000 were alive - 81% destroyed. [SH118] These are only a few examples of the multitude of tribes living before Christian colonists set their foot on the New World. All this was before the smallpox epidemics of 1677 and 1678 had occurred. And the carnage was not over then.
All the above was only the beginning of the European colonization, it was before the frontier age actually had begun.
A total of maybe more than 150 million Indians (of both Americas) were destroyed in the period of 1500 to 1900, as an average two thirds by smallpox and other epidemics, that leaves some 50 million killed directly by violence, bad treatment and slavery.

Did someone mention jesus?

freeman said...

Anonymous,

You have not converted to Islam yet? I thought you wished to not burn in an eternal hell! The only true way is Islam or Ali will show no mercy!

Lassie said...

If every tongue will confess, whats the use of being saved, just wait until you meet your god then spill ya damned guts out.

Anonymous said...

Freeman Wrote:

"You have not converted to Islam yet? I thought you wished to not burn in an eternal hell! The only true way is Islam or Ali will show no mercy!"

Hmmmm ... I am thinking about converting to Islam if the 70 virgins awaiting me are all cute guys.

Onanite

Chris L. said...

Yeah, they get 70 virgin girls. But if paradise is eternal, doesn't that mean that they'll all eventually turn into whores?

Another thing: I did not leave Christianity because of how I was treated. I left for intellectual reasons. If I really believed in Jesus or God, I wouldn't let anyone keep me from practicing my belief whatsoever.

Actually, as some others have said here, being treated badly by Christians was what initially pushed me to question. If I had found satisfactory answers, I would have stayed. Or, at the very least, joined a liberal church.

freeman said...

Chris,
Let me first give you a belated welcome. Sorry for the tardiness.

I too left christianity for intellectual reasons.

One of my brothers is also gay and had many problems reconciling who he was and being raised a christian catholic. Now, he has chosen a spiritual side of life. He no longer recognizes jesus as "god" but just a man. He attends a church that brings in all the philosophies of the world. He has also chosen to be intellectual and realizes that the bible is just stories. He and his partner have been completely accepted by everyone in our family.

Now, my oldest brother and sister-in-law have abandoned the catholic faith and now attend an A of G church! I dare say that is far more radical, in my mind, than me rejecting the bible and its god (or any other god) completely. So, my two brothers have frequent conversations about how the oldest is able to reconcile his love of his “gay” brother and the teachings that come from A of G. My oldest brother believes it to be the bad people in church, not the church itself that has a problem with gays. He even physically threatened another church member who said something derogatory about gays. I am glad that he made a stand, but still disappointed in his spiritual slide from reality. He will wake up one day. I know he will.

I on the other hand, have completely disassociated myself from any form of religion. I am a human and believe in humans bonding together for the survival of society as a whole. That is how morals are decided, not by some sky daddy who is so drunk with power that he was unable to get his own story straight when he delivered it to humans in the form of the bible.

My son, who lives with his mother, has become a strict 6,000-year fundie. I asked him if his god is so powerful, why could he not have created existence through evolution? He must not be powerful at all! Very limited indeed! (I must take baby steps when trying to de-convert him) I will continue to point out how limited his god truly is and hopefully he will see the “true” light.

I am rambling, sorry.

Anyway, welcome to sanity Chris. The light is much brighter on this side of reality!

freedy said...

What's worse, the orgy awaiting
muslims,or the streets of gold/
mansions in heaven for christians? (At least the muslims are not materialistic!)

robb said...

Well. . . I was a student at Jimmy Swaggart Bible College as was my gay suite mate! There were many of us there hiding in fear! Some of us were hot too! LOL Believe me it was terrible. Oppression and scapegoating are evil and that’s exactly what you and I have endured. We were there when the "I have sinned" speech was made - and like idiots we gave the fool a standing ovation? I was an Assembly of God pastor for 12 years and when I refused to send a near suicidal youth to an altar for deliverance from homosexuality I was let go. I also came out! You should yell at me Chris. I'm sorry that I was part of that problem. rdh3659@hotmail.com

Hugoboy76 said...

Listen, Swaggart and the rest of 'em were WRONG!

I'm a Spirit Filled Fundamentalist and I love Jimmy Swaggart Ministries (even with it's faults!)

HOWEVER....

Let me say that I (1) will be praying for you and (2) am disgusted that ANYONE would claim that feelings of homosexuality are sinful.

I DO NOT believe homosexuality is something that God condones, YET....

I DO believe that some have a "cross to bear", be it sexually tempting emtions, stealing, lying etc etc.

To GIVE IN is what I believe the sin is.

I recently interviewed a Roman Catholic who STILL struggles with homosexuality.

This should be an encouragement to you, friend.

PLEAS Elietn to it!

Go to our ministry site at www.icminternational.org and click on audio/video downloads THEN click on "Live Interviews".

Hear what a CHRISTIAN struggling with homosexual tendencies has to say.

And no, he doesn't like women.

He has an inkling for males.

Listen to the interview

Dan Lirette
www.icminternational.org

Bentley said...

Hugoboy76,

Please read below, if you can read.

How can a perfect God allow people like Siamese twins to be jointed together? I’ve seen several cases where the twins were joined at the head, I’ve seen people born with no arms or legs and in rare cases people born with 6 fingers, children with down syndrome, there is a young girl with two heads on the same body, so if this is possible and God allows this to happen to humans and animals, then it is also possible that a male could be born with female chromosomes, or born with male body and born with female chromosomes with male sexual organs, and attracted to the same sex, the same may also be said that a female could be born with male chromosomes, and a female body attracted only to females, this may even be the reason that they are attracted to the same sex, so if this is the case, then a Christian has absolutely no right to condemn homosexuals or anyone to Hell, even if the Bible takes liberty of doing so. The people that wrote the Bible had no medical knowledge, so they just passed the homosexual behavior off as being queer and therefore conveniently condemned people to Hell because they were not like them, this also does not give anyone the right to condemn anyone to Hell just because they do not believe the same thing as them, especially not having the same religion and beliefs or behavior. You just could be WRONG!

The Bible says that a man will leave his parents and cleave to his wife and multiply and bare children, but Jesus never did this, why not? Why did Jesus not adhere to one of God’s commandments. Jesus was mostly known to be associated with men, could Jesus have been a homosexual?


Hugoboy76,
You are an ignorant brainwashed cultist, you are the poster boy of insanity and ignorance, you represent the very filth and stinch of religion, you are a disgrace to common sense, you sewer trash bigot.

Hugoboy76 said...

Hi ben:

may the Lord touch your heart, friend.

Jesus loves you.

Dan
www.icminternational.org

Anonymous said...

I'ts very unfortunate what happened to you, you never should have been treated like that, but consider this. In anything that involves people there will always be some that are mean, insensitive, hatefull, or naive. If I would have let myself been affected by what I've seen people do or say in the church I would have quit a long time ago. I went to jimmy swaggert bible college in the early nineties, and I was there when he got caught with another prostitute and saw people leave by the hundreds. One thing that shocked me is how many peoples foundation was shaken it's as if they where following swaggert and not Christ and thats exactly what was going on. There have been scores of pastors and preachers that have had affairs and stole money from the church but no matter what any man does it will never effect my relationship with Christ. As to your sexual orientation. I'm straight and the thought of another man sticking his penis in my ass not only makes me physically ill but it just doesn't compute in my head how there are men out there that embrace and enjoy such activity. This is not normal I'm sorry if that sounds like hate speech but its just not. There is a spiritual issue going on with you whether you realize it or not. We are all born into sin and born with things we have to fight against or overcome. What if I was born with a natural tendency to be an alchoholic, or raised by an abusive father, or picked on all threw school because I had a lazy eye or weird birth mark on my face. Wouldn't I have alot of rage in me? maybe what to kill someone? or beat my kid up like I was beat up as a kid? There are a myriad of things that people in this world struggle with. We all have a private hell were going threw or have been threw, but one things for sure whether you beleive in Christ or not you have a spirit and when you die that spirit will either go to heaven or hell it's that simple. It doesn't matter if your a "nice person" if you don't confess Jesus as your Lord and Savior and live according to the word of God your future is bleak my friend. I know I'lll be attacked for my comments but there is only only ONE true God in this world and its JESUS CHRIST just try to at least talk to the Lord and bare your soul to him and ask for him to make himself real to you and I know if your sincere something good will happen.

.:webmaster:. said...

At first I was just going to immediately delete that last anony comment. But after some reflection, I decided to let it stand as a prime example of a True Christian™

south2003 said...

Annoy said: ”I'm straight and the thought of another man sticking his penis in my ass not only makes me physically ill but it just doesn't compute in my head how there are men out there that embrace and enjoy such activity.”

Strange, this Christian character might not be a so call “straight,” I doubt it - homophobes and sexually repressed cult members in the closet tend to ALWAYS seek out and are damn too freaking interesting and opinionated about others’ sex life. It seems the Christian KNOWS FOR A FACT that this is how homosexuals conduct their sexual life.

On top of that, this Mickey Mouse was very rude, took of advantage of someone’s personal story (just so it can preach and show how pompus it is - as if we have not heard the dung before)and made the most insipid point out of it.

Say it is'nt so - Is this how True Christianity™ operates?

Steve said...

None of this is how God intended for it to be. In an effort to not create "robots," God gave his most prized and loved creation, humans, the gift of reasoning and choice. He warned Adam and Eve that choosing rebellion agaist Him will surely bring death not only to them, but to every generation.

Well, ladies and gentlemen, was He right or wrong? Has that choice brought death and destruction to the world?

Some will say that religion has brought about that death and destruction but there are plenty of places where there is NO religion, God, or whatever and they are still filled with people who lie, cheat, steal, and think of themselves first-"religion" didn't make them that way because their socitety doesn't have it. You think God LIKES to see His creation and world like it is today? Nope. The caretakers of his creation, us, have chosen to rebel against Him and He, being a perfect God, has held back His hand and kept the promises He has made to not destroy the world until the appropriate time. And, with the choice of rebellion comes the consequence. Every action has a consequence-humans collective action to rebel against our creator has had some definate consequences.

But thankfully it does not end there-He gave us a chance at forgiveness and to be reconcied with God-Jesus Christ-Himself in flesh, modeling for us a perfect life, teaching us and showing us what God is like, then ultimately giving the sacrafice that would give us forgiveness for our collective choice to rebel against God our creator.

All of you thinkers out there, chew on this. How did the world come into existence? You have spoken how you have admired Darwin-you know he refuted his ideas on his deathbed? Do the research. Evolution or whatever is not a fact, not proven, so there HAS to be a better answer.

Christians are not perfect. Pastors are not, and many will have a lot to answer for. But don't jump down the throats of the people who follow Christ for sharing what we have found to be the truth in the public marketplace-it is our right just like it is yours. And let me tell you folks, you have not experienced freedom until you have experienced a life-giving relationship with Christ. I know that one is going to get some comments from some people-but I have lived without God and thought life was pretty good until He changed me!

Please don't delete my comments, Chris. I am sorry that you have had these experiences. I am interested in your thoughts on my comments.

Steve
An Assemblies of God Youth Pastor

Anonymous said...

You said in your article that Christianity is not logical and it falls apart. I don't know if I agree. Do you have any proof that it falls apart? Can you Prove it with real facts? I also think logically so thats why I'm asking.

Anonymous said...

None of this is how Allah intended for it to be. In an effort to not create "robots," Allah gave his most prized and loved creation, humans, the gift of reasoning and choice. He warned Adam and Eve that choosing rebellion agaist Him will surely bring death not only to them, but to every generation.

Well, ladies and gentlemen, was Allah right or wrong? Has that choice brought death and destruction to the world?

Some will say that religion has brought about that death and destruction but there are plenty of places where there is NO religion, Allah, or whatever and they are still filled with people who lie, cheat, steal, and think of themselves first-"religion" didn't make them that way because their socitety doesn't have it. You think Allah LIKES to see His creation and world like it is today? Nope. The caretakers of Allah's creation, us, have chosen to rebel against Allah and Allah, being a perfect God, has held back His hand and kept the promises He has made to not destroy the world until the appropriate time. And, with the choice of rebellion comes the consequence. Every action has a consequence-humans collective action to rebel against our creator has had some definate consequences.

But thankfully it does not end there-Allah gave us a chance at forgiveness and to be reconcied with Allah-Mohammad Allah-Himself in flesh, modeling for us a perfect life, teaching us and showing us what Allah is like, then ultimately giving the sacrafice that would give us forgiveness for our collective choice to rebel against Allah our creator.

All of you thinkers out there, chew on this. How did the world come into existence? You have spoken how you have admired Darwin-you know he refuted his ideas on his deathbed? Do the research. Evolution or whatever is not a fact, not proven, so there HAS to be a better answer.

Muslims are not perfect. Pastors are not, and many will have a lot to answer for. But don't jump down the throats of the people who follow Allah for sharing what we have found to be the truth in the public marketplace-it is our right just like it is yours. And let me tell you folks, you have not experienced freedom until you have experienced a life-giving relationship with Allah. I know that one is going to get some comments from some people-but I have lived without Allah and thought life was pretty good until Allah changed me!

Please don't delete my comments, Chris. I am sorry that you have had these experiences. I am interested in your thoughts on my comments.

Steve
An Assemblies of Allah Youth Pastor

Anonymous said...

There is only ONE and I mean ONE TRUE GOD AND ITS JESUS CHRIST. If you are a muslim and don't accept Jesus Christ as your lord and savior after you have been shown the truth about Jesus you will split hell wide open on judgement day my friend. If you think muhhamed or whatever his name is can do one thing for your soul you are mistaken. Get mad, call it hate speech, whatever the fact that the Koran says to kill the infadel or anyone who doesn't worship allah should be a red flag that the whole religion is false. The fact that our own president has the koran in the white house library makes us americans look ridiculous. Argue with Gods word if you dont like what I'm saying, but what I'm saying is a fact!!!

Anonymous said...

There is only ONE and I mean ONE TRUE GOD AND ITS ALLAH! If you are a Christian and don't accept ALLAH as your lord and savior after you have been shown the truth about ALLAH, you will split hell wide open on judgement day my friend. If you think Jesus or whatever his name is can do one thing for your soul you are mistaken. Get mad, call it hate speech, whatever the fact that the Bible says to kill the Muslim or anyone who doesn't worship Jesus should be a red flag that the whole religion is false. The fact that our own president has the BIBLE in the white house library makes us americans look ridiculous. Argue with ALLAH'S HOLY WORD if you dont like what I'm saying, but what I'm saying is a pure fact!!!

Anonymous said...

CHRIS:

TAKE YOUR EYES OFF OF JIMMY SWAGGART AND PUT THEM UPON JESUS HIMSELF.

READ ABOUT JESUS' MEETING WITH THE WOMAN CAUGHT IN ADULTERY. HE FORGAVE HER AND SAID TO HER ... 'GO AND SIN NO MORE'. JESUS SAYS THE SAME TO YOU.
YOU WERE NEVER SAVED AND NEED TO ACCEPT JESUS TRULY. HE WILL LEAD YOU TO HONEST LOVING HETEROSEXUAL CHRISTIANS AND PASTORS WHO CAN HELP YOU AND MINISTER DELIVERANCE TO YOU AFTER YOU ARE SAVED.
DON'T HESITATE SINCE JESUS IS COMING SOON AND YOU DON'T WANT TO MISS THE RAPTURE WHICH IS IMMINENT.
THIS MESSAGE IS FROM JESUS DIRECTLY TO YOU... DON'T LISTEN TO ANY BLOGS AFTER THIS ONE WHICH RIDICULE THIS MESSAGE TO YOU.
JUST TRUST THE LORD, ACCEPT HIM TRULY AS YOUR LORD AND SAVIOUR ...He really loves you, ASK HIM FOR DELIVERANCE AND THEN SEEK OUT A PASTOR TO WHOM JESUS WILL LEAD YOU.

JESUS IS COMING AND WILL CAST SATAN INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE. THE VICTORY IS ALREADY WON. SEEK CHRIST FIRST AND EVERYTHING ELSE WILL BE ADDED TO YOU.
TRY THIS SITE www.raptureready.com
EMAIL THEM AND ASK THEM TO DIRECT YOU TO A BIBLE BELIEVING CHURCH IN YOUR AREA.

GOD BLESS YOU AS JESUS BEGINS FROM THE TIME YOU READ THIS, TO GUIDE YOU.

MARANATHA

.:webmaster:. said...

i wOndeR whY thEy mAdE a SHifT keY?

i gueSS it wasn'T for ChrISTians.

Anonymous said...

I think it's ironic. You claim to be a free thinker, then you champion this idea that homosexuality is inborn, which has almost become a religion in itself. I know your sexual orientation wasn't a choice for you, but is it biological for certain? Could it be psychological? Yet, you've become like those you denounce, pushing an agenda. Some free thinker.

Squirrel said...

Anonymous: "I think it's ironic. You claim to be a free thinker, then you champion this idea that homosexuality is inborn, which has almost become a religion in itself."

Natural physiology doesn't connote supernatural religious belief.

Anonymous: "I know your sexual orientation wasn't a choice for you, but is it biological for certain?"

There are "no" absolutes, and only one universal constant, "Change". So, if a response if given, you can't take that response and plaster everyone equally. I don't plaster all christians as ignorant, baffoons, I take each one on a case by case basis. Now, as soon as they say "Jesus" can be proven to have certain absolute attributes, well, then they fall into the category of uneducated. You can't prove the past, you can get close in terms of certainty, and I am much more certain that the Jesus presented by christianity is coated with a thick layer of Legendary rhetoric.

Anonymous: "Could it be psychological? Yet, you've become like those you denounce, pushing an agenda. Some free thinker."

Free thinkers = freedom of thought. Everyone has a world view, period, its how we understand our reality, some are just more honest about their attachment to this Natural reality than others. Because someone holds a world view, doesn't necessarily mean they are out oppressing others to conform to that world view.

Anonymous said...

All I can say is there is a real literal hell, and trust me you do not want to spend eternity there with all the memories of hearing the truth. Jesus does love you and is truly waiting to set us free of all sins. And give us joy unspeakable, and you will never experience this joy or truly understand Him until you accept Him into your heart and life. I know this just sounds like what you've heard many times, but he really can change a human being and truly make them a new creature. Accept hell or not you will spend eternity somewhere. Please read the book 23 minutes in hell. God Bless.

Dave said...

I am saddened by this individual's story not only because he was exposed to a side of Christianity that was not true but also to people who contradict the Bible. Now you pretty much don't know what you believe. The story of Christianity is that God loves you no matter what, but the underlying issue is that all men and women are sinners and yes homosexuality does count as a sin. Natural logic will tell you that homosexual couples cannot procreate. You are accountable for your actions and so is everyone else. It is sad that men who preach truth don't live it out, but that does not change what the truth is. I can call a car a horse all I want , but it still remains a car. Jesus would be absolutely displeased with Swaggarts actions just like he would be with every sinner.

.:webmaster:. said...

"Natural logic will tell you that homosexual couples cannot procreate."

My wife has had a tubal ligation. We can no longer procreate. Does that make our relationship unnatural? What about when we were younger and I used to pull out before ejaculation? Was that unnatural too?

What you just said, Dave, is that sex that does not lead to procreation is unnatural, and therefore wrong.

Through away those rubbers, friend, unless you want to be wearing them in hell.

kat said...

hi chris
i am a christian,who happened upon your thread while reading about jimmy swaggarts dire deeds.
i am astounded by some of the venomous crap that some "anonymous" respondents leave,and i can see why it is as abhorrent to you as it is to me.
i have my beliefs, but i also have close friends who are gay,some of who don't believe in god,and we all get along fine.
i don't point the finger at others (intentionaly anyway)as i know that all i have to worry about, is where i am and what i'm doing...we often ask each other questions about different things,and respect each others differences.
i suppose what i'm trying to say is that there are rude ,nasty people everywhere,that seek to point the finger at you,so they take the attention off themselves(like jimmy swaggart for example) and idiots exist in every culture and belief systems.if i met you, i would guarantee that we would get along just fine,as i would prefer your company to some redneck macho man anyday,regardless of whether you share my beliefs or not.and to the religious people who would say i'm not a christian if i have gay friends and enjoy their company, i am a moral person, and i live by my convictions,and they are what i measure my behaviour against...but i don't enforce them on others as a pre-requisite for friendship.
so chris,just as you don't want others to have a preconcieved idea of who you are,and treat you like crap because of it, can you give us a chance too???

Anonymous said...

hi, I saw your article and thought that you gave up too easily in your search for the truth..below is a link that i think you should check out and read carefully.All the best.Please spare some time and read it i think you'll find it helpful..Just copy and paste

http://www.leaderu.com/stonewall/pages/mike_ha.html

Gina M Nordyke said...

I doubt this gets posted on this site...but My prayers are with all of you who are blinded from the true knowledge of Christ. You can blame pastors, churches, and yes your parents, but you have chose not to have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ and live according to your own fleshly desires. We are not all perfect, but we are forgiven our sins if we repent. God is big enough to make himself real to you. If you choose to follow Satan and his schemes...so be it. Just don't blame christians, pastors churches and anyone else. I pray to one day meet you in heaven, if not...you will burn in hell with that of knashing of teeth...You will be judged on every word you speak. I pray God moves in your lives..Gina Nordyke

.:webmaster:. said...

Yes, yes, Jesus loves us more than we can ever comprehend, but if we don't love him back, he is going to make us suffer in the most horrific ways imaginable for all eternity.

Jesus is the Bogey Man.

Wes said...

VaGina The Dyke wrote: "you will burn in hell with that of knashing of teeth..."

Oh, fuck off you twit. Go spread your christian love somewhere else. -Wes.

Anonymous said...

My dear Gina,

"I doubt this gets posted on this site..."

And why would you think that? Your post is a perfect example of the kind of thinking that many of us here used to share. It serves as a poignant reminder of how deluded we were.

"...the true knowledge of Christ..."

Which, of course, you have in abundance compared to...well, anyone.

"You can blame pastors, churches, and yes your parents..."

As someone who's big on personal accountability, I blame no one but myself. Actually, that seems to be a component, however small, of everyone who still feels bitter. No one likes to admit having been tricked or deluded.

"...chose...to...live according to your own fleshly desires."

Those pesky fleshly desires, yes. Of course you mean such things as helping others, right? After all, many of us here volunteer our resources (time, energy, and money) to charitable causes, such as aiding those impacted by Katrina or the tsunami, or working in homeless shelters and such.

"God is big enough to make himself real to you."

He's certainly free to do so any time he has a spare moment.

"...if not...you will burn in hell with that of knashing of teeth..."

A lovely thought: Love me or die! I observe the sublime gift of grace to be a load of bull$#!%.

Have a happy New Year!

Jim Arvo said...

Hi Gina,

Just out of curiosity, do you think it is possible for an intelligent and well-educated adult to hold theological opinions that are different than yours? Are you at all curious about what other people think? Have you ever tried to find out why some people do not share your beliefs?

Astreja said...

Gina, if by some grave misfortune I ever find myself in the Christian heaven talking to the likes of you...

...I swear to the Aesir and Vanir that it will take every ounce of self-control I can muster to not punch you out right in front of your vengeful, sadistic and so far quite invisible god. You have a lot of fucking gall, coming to an ex-Christian site and thinking your message is some special magic that can "turn" us back to the belief system that hurt so many of us so deeply.

From where I stand, your god doesn't exist outside your own imagination. The believers, however, do exist and are now, even at this moment, scaring children to the point of tears with threats of hellfire. This is, IMO, a crime against humanity. And I number you among the criminals, revealed and condemned by your own feeble attempt to bully and frighten us here on this board.

It is my wish that you one day take the time to examine the roots of this demented religion called Christianity. Dig deep. And then dig out the roots and throw them away.

(sighs, shrugs, wanders off to make a lovely batch of pizza for New Year's Eve)

Sheleta said...

Now this was interesting. I will say, I am a Christian and I love God w/all my heart. The one thing I love most about God, that many have a misunderstanding of - is that He gives us 'free-will'. We live and die by the choices we make.

Once saved is always saved. If when you accepted Jesus as Lord, and you really believed it in your heart, than you are still saved. The only sin that can't be forgiven is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit (Mark 3:29)and most of us can't really do that, because its not in our heart. We complain about life situations but in this case we are just like children telling our parents "we hate them" but then hours later we are 'loving up on them'.

So writer, Do not believe that because you are a homosexual that you are going to hell. It's not true, there are plenty of people sinning themselves straight to heaven but I will admit, it's not God's best.

I ask you to continue to seek out the truth. (No doubt and you know - God loves you, Jesus loves you.) Be straight up, open, and honest with God and ask Him to reveal Himself, reveal truth. And no doubt He will. This site has been posting comments for over a year now...It's God's desire that none should perish but live a life of abundance - through a personal/intimate relationship with Him. He had me to write this long message (when ordinarily I wouldn't) just to remind you that He hasn't forgotten about you and loves you unconditionally.

PS. If you haven't truly accepted Him, check out Romans 10:9-10.

Love you and keep on keeping on. :o) Stay encouraged! And Keep your head up!

.:webmaster:. said...

Once saved is always saved.

Well then none of us have a thing to worry about and I can live the most debauched life I can imagine without fear of any consequences from Jebus.

What a screwy religion Christianity is.

BTW, not all Christians believe in "once saved always saved." As a matter of fact, that particular variation of doctrinal flavor didn't even exist until the middle of the 19th Century.

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