The lies the Catholic church fed me

sent in by Laura

I was born in a strict Catholic family and to a father that still attends church regularly and a mother that is atheist. So ofcoarse they HAD to have me baptized to clean off the original sin so I wouldn't burn in hell!

My brother and I had to go to Sunday school weekly and when I was eight I made my First Communion. I was fed the typical lies that the church teaches you like that Eve was born from Adam's rib or Jesus rose from his grave after being dead for 3 days.

For a very short time I actually believed it, then it just didn't make sense to me anymore. So when I was 13 I became pretty much atheist and skipped Sunday school . About a year later when I was 14 and my brother had just made his confirmation and it came to that time for me.

Luckliy my parents decided to let me decide whether to make my confirmation or not. Ofcoarse I said no and finished my last year of Sunday school, never to return to church again. I was sick of being atheist and wanted to belong to some kind of spiritual path when I started reading about Witchcraft and Paganism.

I soon found that the beliefs in the Goddess/God and practices of magick fit my style and I started studying the craft. All of this made so much sense to me and very spiritualy happy. I couldn't be sure whether there was a higher being or not so I became a agnostic Pagan, because it's impossible to know.

And that is my story.

Sex: female
City: Plattsburgh
State: NY
Country: USA
Became a Christian: When I was a baby, I had no choice
Ceased being a Christian: 13
Labels before: Roman Catholic Church
Labels now: Agnostic Pagan
Why I joined: I was forced to
Why I left: I didn't believe in it anymore
Email Address: Drama at Dublin.com

54 comments:

HAROLD said...

Interesting how ur life constists of such relativeness and inconsistancy in your beliefs. Neadless to say this is not suprising when traveling down the path of discernment. However where I am strongly convicted against your twisted logic , specifically is when you state that you were, allow me to qote your words, "pretty much atheist" and then later on stated that you became agnostic becasue your didn't "know for sure". Now I may simply not be understanding you and maybe you were using the term "pretty much atheist" for lack of a better term. Or maybe you were just expressing the fact that your didn't know then. But the point is that you had been fed this "God thing" forever and your reaction was to not believ it at all. Now then, later you became agnostic like you said but the point is that you went from saying that you were conviced that there was a God (church going days), conviced that there was no God ("pretty much an atheist days") and then "not sure if there was a God/supreme being days". So now you are at teh point where you have clearly stated that you are not conviced of anythign of the aort (agnostic). This is your story as you know but if you are not conviced either way of a supreme beings existance now, you are counterdicting teh logic that you stopped believing in God initially for. In othere words, now you "dont know" but the reason you left the church was becasue you had decided in your mind that you did know (at least enough) to leave the church. If you trully felt that you didn't know then than you would havestayed in order to learn to see if you could be convinced. But you left showing that you were conviced enough to not believ. Now you have taken teh stance that you dont know for sure(agnostic). So if your trully want to flllow your logic, becasue of your state of agnostisism you should be still searching for something convicing to show you if there is or is not a supreme Beign or God, But you are not. You have not returned to the church to seak convincing of one way or antoher. Therefore your logic is one sided and incomplete. If it were complete you wold realized that the mind set that you left the church for is not the same mind set that you have now and there for the same logic does not apply that did when you left the church and so logically you should still be there. But your not. thats your decision and you can believe whater you want but you nead to see how it sipply does not add up. It is not a matter of perspective. I can relate. It is a matter of thinking.

Jim Arvo said...

Harold,

You are trying to place strict (and, I believe, inappropriate) interpretations on informal summaries of what were, undoubtedly, complex personal choices. Hence, your assertions of logical shortcomings are out of place.

Moreover, it is perfectly reasonable for one to reject a belief system, and yet remain "unsure" for the following reason: Rejecting an argument, and therefore not believing in the truth of the proposition in question, is NOT the same as proving that the proposition is false. If I tell you that the core of Pluto is made of Rubidium, you may be curious as to how I know. If I then tell you that I reached that conclusion via my Ouija board, you would be quite right to NOT believe my claim, even though, technically, you have not ruled out the possibility that Pluto's core is made of Rubidium.

So it is with religions in general. You may tell me that there is an all-powerful invisible sentient being who can create galaxies at his whim. Of course, I am curious as to how you know that to be true, so I ask how you came to hold that belief. If you were to then point to an ancient book (written largely anonymously), or to an ineffable feeling, or to some strange occurrences, etc., am I not being rational in rejecting your claim unless or until those reasons are shown to be well-founded?

Carmel said...

Im curious as to what the lies were that that Church fed you?
and how you came to know that they were lies. Just curious if you don't mind sharing since you didn't really explain what the lies were, but your heading is "The lies the Catholic Church fed me" :)
Also, im interested in which part of Witchcraft made sense, where Catholicism did not.
I am glad that you are spiritually happy, but would be interested in hearing more detail.

Anonymous said...

You are not born into christianity. That is not true, but you are to choose whether or not you follow Christ. You have never believed in Christ if you can denie him now. I will pray that you could find your so called "answers" and look to a different church than catholicism. I myself am baptist but believe that factions of christianity are ridiculous.

XXtianRob said...

Harold is here engaging in what is known as shadow projection. He is projecting his rejected parts onto the poster. Notice how he is intolerant of "relativeness" and "inconsistency." In doing so, Harold has not yet reached a level of spirituality where he accepts himself fully. In short, Harold lives as a fear based ego that is disconnected from his True Self. He projects his True Self or his own divinity onto an external "god"...Christ and the Church. He relies on external beliefs and rituals to feel connected and safe.

At a higher level of consciousness, one realizes that the major world religions are actually mythological in nature and have no basis in history. The same psychic symbols present themselves in every mythology and religion over and over again. The mother, the father, the savior, the shadow, the anima/animus..etc.

Noah Hornberger said...

A testimony usually consists of details. This one is pretty poor in that area. I must say, I am not convinced. I could write I much more convincing anti-christian testimony, because I am a christian. I could easily explain all the pain people experiance when they hear the truth because I see it all the time.

This post seems more like therapy for the one posting, because it sure leaves a lot to be desired when I read it. This text reads more like an unispired complaint letter than a convincing or heart felt testimony. She is basically saying that because she failed to understand the message, she rejected it, and has not found an appropriate replacemnet yet. the search for a replacement would indicate feelings of missing something or needing some kind of spiritual guidance. Spiritual guidance is the exact purpose and mission of the church. It is often very easy to criticise the "lies" of others but never question the "lies" we tell ourselves out of fear and uninformed conclusions. My prayers go out to all of you, for some of you, this is a matter of life and death and for me it is just a fun writing excercise.

J. C. Samuelson said...

"A testimony usually consists of details. This one is pretty poor in that area. I must say, I am not convinced."

While I can't speak to what Laura might think of your criticism, I'm pretty sure that those who do write testimonies don't do so to entertain or convince Noah Hornberger.

"This post seems more like therapy for the one posting, because it sure leaves a lot to be desired when I read it."

Most testimonies are therapeutic for the writer. It's also therapeutic to share your feelings with others who may have had similar experiences. It was not for your benefit, so while you might desire more details, it is not incumbent upon the writer to provide them.

"My prayers go out to all of you, for some of you, this is a matter of life and death and for me it is just a fun writing excercise."

Don't bother, they're worthless. Good luck finding something to entertain you. Tried masturbation? It's all about self-love, which you seem to have in spades.

boomSLANG said...

Adam and Eve's great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great grandchild, "Noah Jr." said:

"My prayers go out to all of you, for some of you, this is a matter of life and death and for me it is just a fun writing excercise."

Prayers?..more f%#king "prayers"? Listen up, Noah, and all other Christians---there are "prayers" being said for us on this website all day long, 365 days@ yr....and look...?...where is the evidence that your boy, Jebus, has EVER lifted a finger to answer your whimsical little prayers and "save" us all?....better yet, SAVE JUST ONE OF US!?!?!?! WHERE, Noah? Give us the "details"....::wink::

Your god doesn't exist, Noah. It's 2006, Noah.....time to grown up---you're a big boy now.

carol said...

Boom, you are killing me this morning! LMAO!

It is hilarious when they refer to "spiritual guidance." I guess they need to think up some sort of so-called cure for not being able to "find" what doesn't exist.

Noah, please fuck off.

.:webmaster:. said...

Congrats Noah! You've completely obliterated the tired old cliché about artists being sensitive: http://nshcreative.i8.com/.

By the way, that is art, right?

Shannon said...

Hey Noah,

Praying is a waste of time, as my cousin says: Wish in one hand; shit in the other. And see which one fills up first.

Noah Hornberger said...

True wisdom is not easily disturbed. I understand the collective frustration so passionately expressed here. Passion is important, but it is not very effective without maturity and wisdom.

Everyday of my life is a blessing, not because I deserve it, but because God has compassion and unending love. He protects me and enables me to show his creative power and sense of humor to the rest of the world. These are things that I could never even ask for in prayer, they are what I am constantly thankful for. God has shown himself to me so clearly - through the people I know and all the beauty I am constantly overwhelmed with. That is why I pray that every human being could one day could see this and take ownership of all aspects of their being.

Shannon said...

Noah, It must be very special to be under your god’s umbrella because not many people get such a privilege or protection from your god. While he’s showing you his wonderful sense of humor, he seems to be a little less mindful of the thousands of starving children and those being sold off into prostitution. Now, that sure is funny. I'm just rolling - child abuse....bwa-ha-ha-ha!!! There's tears! There's tears! It sooo funny!

boomSLANG said...

Hey Noah?...just so you know...your last post?....it made me physically nauseous. Seriously, it turns my stomach.

Noah: "Everyday of my life is a blessing, not because I deserve it, but because God has compassion and unending love."

Firstly, what exactly is a "blessing", Noah?.... Anybody? Surely it CANNOT mean that just because things "go well for Noah", that he has some special "benevolent" force looking after him. I mean, if that were the case, well, Christians have been asking their god for "His blessing" for thousands of years, and yet, we see suffering all around us....so God is certainly letting some people down, it would seem. If "suffering" is something that is part of a "plan"?...no thanks. If suffering is something that God can't prevent, then he's not worth my worshipping him/her/it.

And "unending love", you say? Not to be crass....but READ YOUR F%CKING BIBLE, Noah. The "love" ENDS the day you reject Jesus. Period. If the "choice" your Jesus offered was a really a choice and not coersion, the choices would not contrast each other to such a high degree. In other words, if your Jesus was so "loving", "He" wouldn't need the alternate option set up to "scare" you into the first option. Example of a balanced choice: "You can have steak for dinner....or if that doen't appeal to you, then you can have lobster". The biblical equivilant(coersion): "You can have steak for dinner...or if that doesn't appeal to you, I will dowse you charcoal lighter fluid and set you on fire." Duh.

Noah: "He protects me and enables me to show his creative power and sense of humor to the rest of the world."

He protects you? YOU? What about the thousands of starving children in third-world nations--nations that have supposedly been getting "God's blessing" for years? Or this the "humor" you speak of? "Ha ha...look at the little children with flys living in their noses...good one, God!"

Noah: "These are things that I could never even ask for in prayer, they are what I am constantly thankful for."

Prayer is useless. Utterly USELESS. Noah, please get as many Christians together as you can, join hands, and pray that this website is closed down by this monday at noon. Pray with all your might, Noah...."Uuuuhhhh! Amen".

Noah: "God has shown himself to me so clearly - through the people I know and all the beauty I am constantly overwhelmed with."

Why is it, Noah, that I can see ALL of the beauty around me that you see; all of the postitive influences that my friends and family offer, yet, I don't have or need a belief in God? And it's not because God really exists, and I don't just don't know it. If God's existance were evident, we wouldn't be having this debate. Here's why, Noah---God doesn't exist and is nothing more than a placebo for weak-minded people.

Noah: "That is why I pray that every human being could one day could see this and take ownership of all aspects of their being."

We've already established that prayer is useless superstition. BTW, to take "ownership" of yourself goes totally against what the bible teaches. The bible teaches to be totally 100% dependent on Jesus. GOD OWNS YOU, Noah!..you have no "self".

Noah Hornberger said...

The confusion here is that I was giving my personal testimony and sharing the way I feel God's power in my life. I was not attempting to explain human pain and suffering, nor convince anyone of the right way to think. In fact I have not requested anything other than for people to use wisdom and respect as they communicate with each other.

The off topic stabs just emphasize the fragmented understanding of what the Church actually teaches. The truth is not twisted very easily to one who understands it.

I have found meditation and prayer to be very centering activities and I would recommend them to anyone. Bashing such a non-confrontational and peace oriented activity is quite a contradiction coming from someone familiar with the horrors of war.

boomSLANG said...

"The confusion here is that I was giving my personal testimony and sharing the way I feel God's power in my life."

IMO, I think the initial "confusion" is that you either over-looked, or blatantly ignored the "sign on the front door". Your argument, like most of the Christians who oddly wish to share their subjective experiences here, amounts to "I still believe"--- which, that is pretty much immaterial to an EX-Christian. If I am in error and you didn't already know that---now you know.

"I was not attempting to explain human pain and suffering, nor convince anyone of the right way to think."

Loosely assuming that you didn't already know-----in Christianity, the notion that one DOES in fact have the "right way to think" is IMPLIED. Remember, most of us used to think exactly as you do. Offer us something different, for a change, k?

"I have not requested anything other than for people to use wisdom and respect as they communicate with each other."

Right-O, and we HAVE used that "wisdom"....and what we've concluded is that Christianity, like all religions, is based on mythology, and has zero referent in reality. I'd be willing to bet that if you could forget about the reward you've been promised in exchange for your belief, you could begin to look at Christianity objectively, and thereby deduce it as false---just like the hundreds of other religions that you ALREADY dismiss as false. Give it a try, won't you?

"The off topic stabs just emphasize the fragmented understanding of what the Church actually teaches."

No stabs...just honesty. Notice that, not you as a person, but the way that you think is what turns my stomach. Just like your implication that anyone who isn't a Christian like Noah, has a "fragmented" understanding of Christianity...i.e.."we did something WRONG"...."it's our OWN fault"..blah, blah, blah. I'm sorry, but it's redundant and annoying. Again, please offer us something different.

"The truth is not twisted very easily to one who understands it."

::yawn::......see, Noah? More of the same condescending tripe. Something different, please.

"I have found meditation and prayer to be very centering activities and I would recommend them to anyone. Bashing such a non-confrontational and peace oriented activity is quite a contradiction coming from someone familiar with the horrors of war."

The "horrors of war"? Boy, that came from outta left field. Care to elaborate?... and back it with facts? BTW, when people fly in here and ramble on about how they're going to "pray for us", etc...well, y'know what, Noah?...that IS "confrontational"...because, again, it implies that we NEED something, or lack something..i.e...that we are "deficient" in some way. Personally, I resent the implication. The fact that prayer is useless, is secondary. Take care.

noahhornblower said...

Oh silly me, I came off sounding so Intelectually Superior!!!
Although most of everything that I posted makes absolutely no sense, I m sure God understands my intent of literal conveyance. Oh dear me! it must surely be Time For Tea. Ta Ta

Anonymous said...

dont get me wrong the catholic church does indeed feed alot of lies, such as original sin, how funny moses never taught this or noah yet suddenly after Christ cmes there is now origianl sin, how where they saved if there was no baptizm, there was a baptizm into moses when they crossed the read sea, and a kinda of baptizm for noah when the water seperated them from the wicked world, but does that mean baptizm into christ, after all many where baptized into john but today we are baptized into Christ, but im getting off subject, i cannot reject that there is a God because my life has been filled with instanced of me feeling His presance, such as when i had ecoli and yet did not suffer as many ill effects as i should have for almost a year and the fact that my ulers rarely cause my trouble though others die, and suffer greatly from theres, and the fact that i tried commiting suicide yet was unharmed i tried electricuting myself yet was not hurt, oh dont get me wrong im a sinner how can i lie, yet i have hope that i can still be saved in my life because of the blood of Christ, i cant deny Christ is real because i also know that all the prophecies God said would happen,,,,,,happen there is not one prophecy in The Bible that has not happend or that wont, thus we should not ignore that fact, how is it possible that its easy to believe the universe was created from an unknown big bang if it was truly the source of all that is where did it come from or the materials to make it, someone once said molecules or atoms where evelasting, people can say atoms are everlasting things that have no intelligance yet they cant believe that God who made everything is everlasting? sounds pretty nonsencible, but if you want my opinion you should find a good Church Of Christ if you want to find one i can help you if you email me under MIDER1985@HOTMAIL.COM i dont agree with catholic teachings either such as frowning on priests getting married paul said dont join any one who tells you cant get married, and peter was never stated to be the pope, if peter was pope how come he preached mainly to the jews not the gentiles that was pauls job, paul was the one who built the church and in his own words suffered more then anyone, of course if people wanan nit pick and say oh paul was just lieing we minus will nitpick with every single chapter or statemen of The Bible and minus will just start making things up like the catholics or other religions which lie to there believers.

Wolfie said...

Merry Meet Laura, and welcome... Congratulations upon your freedom from tyranny, lies and deceit of the catholic church, which is neither holy, or divine, but pious, and false, who created as a political solution, the counterfeit belief of christianity. There is no path to spirituality to be found in christianity, because their authority is founded on those very same lies, corruption and pious fraud, in the guise of their manifesto, the fiction in the gospels. Enjoy being free to live your life your own way... Wolf.

Anonymous said...

As much as the Catholic Church would have you believe that they are Christian, they are the greatest FALSE RELIGION out there. The Catholic Church is a front for Satan to deceive people who want to fill the void that God placed in each one of us when He created our souls. The Catholic Church has all kinds of Pagan practices that are not Biblical. They are the most RELIGIOUS religion...looking all Holy. God is not about RELIGION...or about Baptist, Lutheran, Methodist, Mormon, Church of Christ, etc. Those are all manmade denominations. God DOES exist...it took me a while to believe it with all of my mind and soul, because I wanted proof. The proof is all around you. The Bible says, "if you have eyes to see and ears to hear". The only thing that God cannot do is make you truly love Him. He can make you love Him..., but not truly love Him. True love cannot be ordered, forced or purchased. He wants your true love. He will not force it on you. I believe most churches today are False Prophets..."one verse Charlies". All of the churches that I have visited, just "play church". They never get around to teaching God's Word. They sing.. they clap.. but NEVER teach God's Word. You can learn the TRUTH from the Shepherd's Chapel on TV or at www.shepherdschapel.com. Nearly all of the pastors on national television are FAKES...beggers. Check out www.shepherdschapel.com

Anonymous said...

You're probally going to given a few short years to make a choice about God, and I hope you're not foolish enough to think to can repent at the last monent of you life and excape into heaven. It's doesn't work that way. Gods no fool. There is "plenty" of evidence out there that God, the one true God really exists. The God that over 1 billion Catholics believe in. If you choose to believe in our God, live a Christian life, and there turns out to be no God, when you died and you will die, then you loose nothing. But if you choose to not believe in God, and there's ton's of evidence out there that God is alive and well, and you die, you "will" be looking at a million life times in hell. There is also tons of evidence that hell exists, also. Just don't look for it in the liberal news media. It's your decision to make. Just don't wait, or listen to the athestic, liberal media.

Anonymous said...

To the athestic who loves to crack on the Catholic religion, it just shows how little you know about the church, that by the way has been around for 2000 years and will be here till Christ comes back the 2nd time. Catholics are taught in the 1st and 2nd grade of Catholic school, I know this for a fact, because I went to Catholic school for my 12 yrs, that there is no salvation except thru Jesus Christ. We were taught that in the beginning was the Word, "God" the Word was with God and the Word was God. Jesus was God when He came to earth. God Bless.

freeman said...

As a former catholic, I would like to respond to both anony 10/05/2006 3:00 PM and anony 10/17/2006 3:41 PM.

First to anony 10/05/06. You stated that " As much as the Catholic Church would have you believe that they are Christian, they are the greatest FALSE RELIGION out there. The Catholic Church has all kinds of Pagan practices that are not Biblical."

First, everything you know is because of the catholic church. You claim it to be false and full of paganism. I agree and since all of christianity is built on the catholic myghology, then all of christianity is mythological in nature!

To anony 10/17/06, I also attended catholic schools for 12 years. It also preaches that salvation can only be achieved through the "one true apostolic faith". Meaning that if you are not a catholic, you will go to hell!

To both of you jesus freaks, just because it is in the bible does not make is so, right or worthy of any worship! Get a life!

boomSLANG said...

To the "Atheist" cracking on Catholics? Hmmm.. it looks to me like other Christians are cracking on Catholics.

Holy bout--15 rounds: "Shepherd's Chapel TV" VS "A billion" sold Catholics. Which one has the one and only "Truth"?

LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!

freeman said...

There is only one truth and ALL christians have failed to obtain it!

Anonymous said...

To freeman or freemason, it's the fool that's says there's no God.

Anonymous said...

To freeman. You claim you went to Catholic school for 12 yrs. Sounds like you retained nothing, which doesn't say much your opion. The Catholic church doesn't teach that there's no salvation outside the Catholic.

Anonymous said...

To boomslang

.:webmaster:. said...

Jesus said calling some a fool would put the person in danger of hell fire!

Which is it: Is it okay to call unbelievers fools or not?

Anonymous said...

To boomslang. People also crack on the big guy. What movie or restraunt would most people go to. The one that most people are saying is great or the one most people are avoiding? The atheist is actualy a tiny minority in this world.

Anonymous said...

T

Anonymous said...

To the webmaster. You want to qoute sctipture. Check out Psalms 14:1. You would do well to read the whole passage the next time. "I Was taking from scripture." I wasn't calling anyone a fool.

.:webmaster:. said...

To anony-bot: While it is normatively necessary to be a Catholic to be saved ... there are exceptions, and it is possible in some circumstances for people to be saved who have not been fully initiated into the Catholic ChurchSalvation outside the Church

A reading of the page linked will show that an exception is granted to those found to be innocently ignorant. They are given the benefit of the doubt in regards to salvation. However, those who are willful in their rejection of the Catholic faith... those people go straight to hell.

.:webmaster:. said...

Yeah, yeah, you weren't calling anyone a fool -- the Bible calls people fools. I've heard that excuse a hundred times. In fact, when I was an asinine Christian I used it too.

Think about it: Why exactly did you quote this verse here? Hmm?

We are ex-Christians. We know that verse. You weren't educating anyone.

Admit it to yourself — you are being disingenuous. You typed that verse because you wanted to lash out and call everyone who disagrees with your petty little deity and your ludicrous religion, a fool.

You sir, are a liar.

And if the majority decides truth, then Zeus exists, the world is flat and the center of the universe, and it is impossible to fly or go to the moon.

The majority is a mob. MObs have has never been a good place to find any kind of truth.

boomSLANG said...

To boomslang. People also crack on the big guy.

WHAT "big guy"?

What movie or restraunt would most people go to. The one that most people are saying is great or the one most people are avoiding?

McDonalds: BILLIONS served. Now, is it really a "great" restaurant?....or is it just CONVENIENT?(pun intended)

The atheist is actualy a tiny minority in this world.

Irrelevant conclusion. Fundonymous---"truth" isn't determined by popular vote. Back is your mythological Jebus' hay-day, the majority believed that the earth was flat.

Anonymous said...

webmaster. You must look up the definition of a majority. It says nothing about a mob. So you say that in a free land its a mob that elect their leaders. Where did you come from. It's just like the rest of your statements, they don't hold water.

freeman said...

Thanks WM,
I was pretty sure that I had retained something from my 12 years of brainwashing!

Anony, you would be wise to research your own faith before you ASSume you know what you are talking about!

Anonymous said...

boomslang. Have you ever eaten at McDonalds? Ha You have a choice. A freewill. Research and follow you heart. Good luck.

Anonymous said...

webmaster. That was quite an interesting site you sent us to. You would do well to read it yourself. It just happens to quote some of the most brillant men in the history on mankind. Read and heed. God Bless

Anonymous said...

freeman. I'm so glad that wm was there for you. Ha

freeman said...

Anony,
I like it when someone real will be there for me. It is better than talking to imaginary friends like jesus!

Also, your pope is a neo-nazi bastard!

boomSLANG said...

boomslang. Have you ever eaten at McDonalds?

Fundonymous,

When I have a hunger for greasy food, sure, I'll hit a McDonalds. The difference being---if I choose to not eat there, Ronald's not going to track me down and send me into a fiery BBQ pit with Grimace. I like your analogy though---yes, Christianity is the "McDonalds" of religious beliefs--it's fast, convenient, many people pushing it are uneducated...::cough::..and after you partake of it, hours later you get a sick feeling deep down in your stomach = )

Ha You have a choice. A freewill. Research and follow you heart. Good luck.

Fundonymous, you have freewill too: You can choose lies and legendary thinking--or you can choose reality. In the mean time, please stop your amateur evangelizing. Thanks.

.:webmaster:. said...

Anony-catholic-troll:
Most modern democratic societies on the globe right now have representative governments. The US is a republic.

True democracy is mob rule, that's why our founding fathers set it up the way it is. In Mob rule, the rights of minorities are trampled.

When the Catholic Church reigned supreme for 10 centuries, it was rule by the majority at the expense of everyone else. And it was called the Dark Ages.

You would do well to read it yourself.

I did read it myself. That's how I was able to point out your ignorance of your own religion.

At least know what the hell your religion preaches before you attempt to become an evangelist for it.

The most dedicated Christians are are frequently the most ignorant.

God has apparently hidden his truth from the wise, and given them instead to the most rude, arrogant and obnoxious idiots on the planet.

freeman said...

I have a cozy, which I love to put my beer beverages into.

It says, "God must love stupid people because he made so many of them".

Ann said...

I was just recently fired from a catholic school where I had taught for 21 years by a smuck of a principal who had been there 2 years. I kept quiet about the lies of the church in order to keep my job, but no more. The church has been lying to humanity since the dawn of time. Do research. You will see. They have brainwashed us into believing exactly what they want us to believe, not the truth. And as far as their teachers go, I am one of about twenty who have been fired over the twenty-one years I was there. These people do not care about their teachers at all. They pay us virtually nothing and let us walk around without health insurance. The rich parents who put their kids in our care and expect us there no matter what don't care either. Their wallets are tight. They could care less that I have had to live in a dump because of what they paid me. Anyway, I'm venting, but I know the church has lied to humanity for ages. Like I said, do your homework. I couldn't possibly go into all of the lies here--there are way too many.

Anonymous said...

well, i have just spent a good enertaining hour reading about a years worth of arguing that started with some confused girl whose life story didn't even match up to the title of the websight... wow so lets then bash each others religions. thats cool, since any of us really even know the true answer. I practiced Christianity for the first 17 years of my life, and i pray that Jesus was alive and everything in the Bible is correct, because that gives us a reason for living.

After reading the Divinci Code(which i realize is a totally ficticious novel). I did not believe in the Priory of Sion or anything, but I did have this one question that I still 2 years cannot answer. WAS/IS THE CATHOLIC CHURCH CORRUPTED? if so then can we really trust the quality of the information that is presented to us about Christianity? ( THE HOLY BIBLE) I am majoring in History, at the University of Texas, and to me all historical evidence pointed to the the Church's only concern from about 5,00 a.d to mabye even present day, was togain power to make money. then their is also the fact that their have been numerous historical documents found from around the same time as the one's in the New Testament that contradict the New Testament. I dont know what to think. All i know now is that their is a God, he created the Earth, and to believe anything else would just seem to me like a lost cause. I cannot call myself a christian, because I belsieve in God, but now the word of man, as is what is in the Bible. If anyone has any advice, or just wants to answer any question please feel free, because i am completly lost in life, and that may be from a lack of faith.

Jim Arvo said...

Anonymous,

I hope I can get you at least consider this possibility: You are NOT lost--you are in fact in a very good position to set about making a reasoned judgment of your own. The being "lost" metaphor is probably something that has been instilled in you through Christianity. That is, to reject or to even seriously doubt the doctrines of the church is somehow unacceptable and one who does so is to be pitied. In my opinion, the very best favor you can do for yourself is to grant yourself the freedom to question and to investigate. There is not a doctrine in the world that is worth adhering to if it is false; therefore, any doctrine that insulates itself from critical inquiry ought not be respected.

Now, I say you are actually in a good position because you appear to be open to different possibilities. Use that to your advantage. Read. Study. Debate. Contemplate. Don't feel you need to come down on one side or the other until the evidence clearly dictates which is the most plausible. Many of the regulars here will be happy to share what they have learned and to answer questions. But be warned--there are no "sacred cows" here; and, by the very nature of this site, most here have already come to the conclusion that religions are *all* man-made and crumble under close scrutiny. If you can seriously consider that possibility, then welcome aboard.

Anonymous said...

Jim Arvo

this is anonymous my name is actually justin. thank you for responding, and what you said was really what i was hoping someone to say. I dont really know know whether illl become a "christian" or not. i know ill always dislike/mistrust the church. but believing in God..... Like you said this isnt the best sight to look for bible pushers, but it awesome to be able to just talk about what is really a very foggy area for me. so thank you

Anonymous said...

Why would a God whom should be the most intelligent being in the universe, be willing to throw people into hell based upon whether anyone believes in him or Jesus?

It's like, Hey I'm God, over here, you can't see me and no-one ever has, but if you do not believe in me or Jesus, then you're going straight to hell.

Does that sound like a reasonable thing for a loving God to do?

I God exist, because it says in a book written by men, that I God exist, therefore there's your proof.

A hell exists, because it says in a book written by men, that a hell exists, therefore there's your proof.

Now you have to wonder if a real God exists, or if this God does not have enough confidence in himself to make his presense known to people, without a single hesitant doubt.

Which is more plausible?

1. A God that exists, only from the pages of a book, written by humans?

2. An invisible God that stays hid, and is totally the fabrication of the human mind?

3. A loving God, whom often shows his presense and intervenes frequently and saves people from disaster, starvation, and diseases and casts no judgement based upon what a person chooses to believe?

4. None of the above?

Which of the four examples above strikes a tone of reason within one's own rational thinking sound mind?

Anonymous said...

to bentley
the points that you have pointed out are very true. one cannot trust or even begin to have eason that God is real because of wht humans have written or say. The only question is now though is how was the world created, humans... how theycame into existence/... and everything that is outsideside of this earth. Many people have many theory's, but all have no proff. so the big question is...is their any supernatural powers? anything beyond what we see in our everyday lives. God mabye a world that humans created, and people will argue whether he is real or not forever, and noone will ever be certain, because the true answer that....

Anonymous said...

I'm from a christian background.However i dont practice or believe in riligion.None of it can be proved.For example their is no solid evidence that a man name jesus existed.we live in a big univeres a size unimaginable and more we learn about whats going on in it more it contradicts these religions.

maddaddy said...

all religions have lies. they cannot function without them or you would not have revelations. hindu religion tells the young people that the earth is supported on the backs of turtles. jews say a fictitious person named moses parted the red sea. christians say that people come back from the physical dead such as lazarus and jesus. believe what you will. but what is happening now is what the truth is.

raul valdez jr said...

how is it you say you dont believe in God then suddenly you wanna be a wiccan, you go from not believing in the one True God to believing in many false ones. If you want the truth catholicm is a religion of convience they do whatever they wanna do go to a priest then say im sorry the priest says its cool then they go do it again, true Christians are not perfect nobody is but when they sin they know they sin and they either dont care or feel guilty but a catholic doesnt need to because repentence is not a requirement for forgiveness in that church, the pope supposidly can change the rules whenever he wants he has supreme authority over such things which is nonsense, not even Jesus Christ Himself changed the rules and if He said something contrary to past beliefs He always explained Himself certain foods are unclean we know that from the old testament in the new testament we know that all foods are clean when we give thanks for them to God, in the old testament the sabbath is a day of rest people where punished when they did stuff they didnt need to do on that holy day but when Christ and His deciples where eating wheet they where only doing what they HAD TO to live not a sin, gathering some junk you dont really need on the sabbath was a sin, we know that the sabbath day for Christians is now the kingdom of God not a perticular day of the week anymore if one wants to say well we should follow the law try reading the law of moses and try keeping it all the law requires you die after certain broken laws thus no need for forgiveness of course thats what we learn from God and Christ EVERYONE SINS IF YOU REPENT YOU CAN BE FORGIVEN THE LAW CANNOT SAVE. If you wanna believe in God you should have prayed to God to reveal Himself to you that doesnt mean a giant storm cloud will come down from heaven it means that God will help you believe and give you proof. i use to be catholic and then i went into other junk, wicca, shamanism ive been there done that only Christnaity makes sense because it backs up what it claims and so does history

Anonymous said...

As much as i hate to be rude, I found not a strand of intelligence in what you just wrote. You say there are lies yet you have identified few if any. You believed a very short time showing your lack of education and full knowledge of what you are learning. For example, the Adam and Eve citation, the bible is like the constitution it includes the cases of literal sense proper and literal sense improper, the story of Adam and Eve is to be interpreted as a metaphor for the cycle of nature in the world. So it is safe to say you were not taught a lie, merely something you are not intelligent enough to understand.

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