Trust in God and it will work itself out

By Caroline Singer

This is a story of how I am finally able to shed the last of the xian brainwashing that was inflicted on me as a child. It's long, it rambles, and it's almost 3000 words. But it helps me to write it, and I hope that some of you will have the patience to read it. Any words of encouragement from a fellow nonbeliever will be welcome.

From as far back as I can remember, I was taken to sunday school and then church by my mother. My mother was not especially religious herself -- I think she brought me there because it was the "right" thing to do and to give me something of a social life. My church was Northern Baptist, more or less the same vanilla Xian of all the other Protestant churches around -- the Methodists, the Congregationalists, and so on. Our town was maybe 3/4 Protestant and 1/4 Catholic. As far as I knew, my church was "Protestantism Lite." The emphasis was on living a good life. The mystical stuff was there, but I don't remember them stressing it much, and I never got exposed to the hell and damnation stuff favored by other sects.

When I was 6 or 7 I remember the Catholic neighbor boy down the street, with whom I used to hang out some, telling me, out of the blue, that only Catholics went to heaven. I didn't say anything -- I've always had trouble expressing myself verbally, especially when confronted with that crap. But I did ask my grandmother and mother if it were true. They said no, don't worry about it, or something like that. But I could just tell, without knowing it, that they went to the neighbor kid's parents and told them to tell little Johnny to cool it, because I didn't see so much of Johnny after that.

I was raised mostly by my grandparents. My father and mother divorced before I was born, and my mother stayed and worked in Boston during the week, coming home on weekends. She was normally a quiet woman, but when my grandparents went out for the evening, she was given to hysterical rages that scared the crap out of me. Somehow I couldn't tell my grandparents about it, but one day in church, after another round of hysteria the night before, I told someone about it, the mother of one of my friends and a pillar of the church. I thought for sure she'd say something about it to my grandparents or my mother. At last, I thought to myself, someone will get my mother to stop. My mother didn't stop, however, and I realized that the lady I'd confided in had said nothing to anyone. That was a huge disappointment.

Life went on. When I was 11 or 12, I was invited to spend the weekend at my cousin's house. She was about my age, and I always wondered why I hadn't seen more of her, since they lived not too far away. After that weekend, I was just as glad, not to have anything to do with them. For one thing, everything was regimented. My cousin insisted I had to brush my teeth with her, first thing in the morning before breakfast. Do you know how bad orange juice tastes with toothpaste? But more than that, they seemed to be going to church ALL the time. I mean, I thought one service a week was plenty. But they had Saturday church activites and Saturday night church and Sunday morning church and Sunday evening church. I couldn't believe all the long sermons I sat through in just 2 days.

The culmination of the weekend came when my cousin's father took me aside and asked me if I believed that everything in the Bible was literally true, like the earth being created in 7 days. I'd never really thought about it before. To me, our Sunday school was basically a bunch of stories with some life lessons thrown in. Like I said, Protestantism Lite. After hearing my cousin's father's question, I thought a little, and then I said I thought the creation tale was an allegory. I'm not sure I used that word, but I said something like that. He looked at me a bit oddly. I asked him if he believed the creation tale was literally true. He said yes, but let it go at that. Sunday night someone came and got me and I was never invited to my cousin's place again.

At age 13, the beginning of my high school freshman year (9th grade), I came under attack, for lack of a better expression. It's too long and boring to go into here, but basically a "friend" of mine did something unethical and I ended up getting the blame. The "popular" group of girls would see me in the halls and say things like "Speak of the devil" and so on. For weeks and weeks I had no idea what they were talking about, and nobody would tell me. Finally the girl behind me in homeroom said she'd find out. She did, and told me about it, and I realized there was no way at that point I could convince anyone I hadn't done anything wrong.

Anyway, during those dreadful weeks, I kept saying to myself, "Trust in God and it will work itself out." I realized long afterwards that I had picked up this mantra through all my exposure to church, week after week. I kept hoping that something would happen to exonerate me, just like I had hoped the church lady would make my mother stop her rages. But nothing happened, and I was regarded with suspicion by most of the students for the rest of my high school career. That incident really had a bad effect on me. I think that if I hadn't put my faith in a supernatural power during that time, I might have been able to figure out how to make the rumors and the harassment stop, perhaps by going to the injured party and telling her the truth. In any event, after that was when I stopped trusting people and I stopped trusting "God."

When I was 15 I started attending Sunday school classes for the junior class. At this point they had stopped separating the girls from the boys. There was just one class and it was taught by the minister's wife, a somewhat odd lady who liked to order hot water as a beverage in restaurants and who thought kissing before marriage was a sin. From my readings on this board, I think the junior year in high school is, in general, when they start hitting the kids with the hard stuff in Sunday school. This was where I found out that that all non-Christians will be going straight to hell after they die. It was little Johnny come back to me, only the Protestants were including themselves in the going to heaven category. Naïve me, I thought I had heard the last of that b.s. when Johnny moved away. I asked the teacher the standard question, what if someone hasn't been exposed to Christianity, it doesn't seem fair to send them to hell. She replied that it didn't matter.

Like so many of you, when I hit the hard stuff, I couldn't buy it. I stopped going to Sunday school and I stopped believing. My mother insisted I go to church, however. Before my senior year in high school, I told my mother I wanted to try different churches, to go to a different service every week. I think she talked it over with my grandmother. (At this point, my grandfather had died and my mother was now a full-time resident where I lived. I still regarded my grandmother as the person raising me.) I think my grandmother said, oh that will look bad, and my mother told me I needed to stay at the same church, and I could do what I wanted when I went to college.

The end of my senior year the church held its annual essay contest for seniors. I wasn't planning to enter -- there were too many godly teenagers at my church who were just chomping at the bit to win that $50 prize (this was 1963). However, the night before the essay was due, I got inspired and wrote a page on how I wanted to go off to college and investigate other religions. I turned it in the next day and forgot about it. In a few weeks the winner was to be announced at the weekly service. All the godly teenagers were sitting in front waiting for one of their names to be announced as the winner. I was sitting in the back with my mother. Suddenly I heard my name called as the winner. I remember my fellow classmates looking at me with disappointed smiles as I went up to accept the check. I do have to give those church people credit to this day. They could have easily picked someone else's essay.

The funny part came when I had to read my essay in front of the whole church. They asked someone else to read his essay too, a much more conventionally religious one, and the man helping us prepare for our delivery was clearly no fan of mine. He kept glaring at me. I read the essay and nobody came and lynched me afterwards, so I guess that's good. But what hurt was when one of the teenagers, I guy I had respected, later told me he'd read my essay on the sly, because his father was one of the judges. He said something like, you were just spouting b.s., weren't you. Well I wasn't, but I froze and found I couldn't disagree with him (it's that inability to respond verbally coming up again).

In college, sleeping in after a Saturday night date, during which I usually had at least a couple of drinks (screwdrivers were my favorite), became a lot more important than going off to some church to find out what was out there. (In the early 60s, the minimum drinking age was 18. I was able to drink at 17 and not even have to present a fake i.d. Years later, I was carded at age 38…But I digress.) Religion didn't come back into my life until I moved south and got married. If I'd had my choice at the time I would have done neither of those things.

It's yet still more of a long winding story as to how I got caught up in fundamentalism for a time, but here goes. My husband had been raised in a Southern Baptist church and rebelled against it as a teen. I think that the more fundamentalist the church, the stronger one's rebellion is and the more antagonistic one becomes. My husband was anti-religion, anti-christian, anti-church, you name it. His parents were church-goers and his mother was very devout, however. My views of religion at that time were (1) it was irrelevant and (2) I didn't like the people -- I had always tried to follow xian precepts such as the golden rule and to be kind, and I noticed that most of the people who went to church didn't do that. My husband was a fan of Bertrand Russell and thought of religion as an abomination. At the time I thought that if someone wanted to believe, well fine, that's their right. I still think that, but I get really angry when someone tries to shove their religion down my throat, either personally or politically.

Anyway, before I got married, I had thought my husband would be fun to live with. I believed that we had a lot in common. But after the wedding he changed a lot. He was critical of virtually everything I did, always claiming I was the one at fault. Part of it was that since he was 31 and I was 20, it was hard to argue with him. Another part was that he had a congenital, chronic, debillitating condition, and after a while I realized that if I caused him stress his condition would kick up and he would become very seriously ill. At other times he could fall on the floor and nothing would happen to him. Well, one day we're riding along with our two-year old son in the car and the thought came to me, how happy I was to be free of religion, heaven, hell, the whole nonsense. So I expressed that thought. And my husband starts getting on my case, saying don't be so negative! This after listening to him rant for hours on end about how horrible religion was. I learned right then to keep my thoughts to myself. Who could understand this guy? I guess he could insult the faith of his parents, but I could not.

I left my husband after 5 years of marriage, in a state of such depression that I was afraid I'd harm my little boy if I stayed. My husband begged me to let him keep our son. Actually he said, if you take him I'll die. I had no financial resources, either my own or from my parents. Nobody would rent a place to a single mother with a child. There were so many reasons I left without my son, but it doesn't matter. I regret it to this day. Two years later my husband died. Within a week his parents told me I was in no position to take care of my son, and they wanted to adopt him. I agreed. My father told me they would hound me until I gave my son up, and they certainly had the money to do it.

While my husband was sick, but before he died, I went to a campus religious group meeting. It turned out to be my first encounter ever with fundamentalists, or Pentecostals. I had heard of them, of course, but otherwise knew nothing about them. The atmosphere of the meeting was so emotionally charged that I broke down and cried for the first time in a very long time. From then on I was hooked. I started going to services at the campus Episcopalian cathedral. After a couple of times I got completely turned off by the "we are undeserving scum" litany and looked around for someplace else to go. My new fundie friends suggested a Protestant church in town, I forget which flavor. I have to say, one of the woman from that church helped me a lot while my husband was dying. She went to the "viewing" with me, went to the funeral, and listened to my story. She was continually non-judgmental and kind, and she didn't proselytize.

After my husband died, I kept on going to church. I saw the minister a few times, and he advised me never to see my son again. (I'm glad I ignored his advice. It was difficult to see my son at his grandparents' house, and our relationship has been through some tough times, and he has been through some tough times, but now my son and I are great friends.) Anyway, as the emotional wounds began to heal a little, I started to think more clearly about what I was hearing at church. I remember distinctly one Sunday hearing the stuff about Jesus dying for us and the resurrection and thinking, oh wow, I cannot bring myself to believe this. The defining moment came when I started reading C.S. Lewis. In one of his books, he presented two arguments, pro and con, for the existence of God. After reading them, I realized I found the "con" argument much more convincing!

I stopped going to church. Later in my life, twice in a 5 year period, I would happen to attend a service and get sucked in by what seemed to be the kindness of it all. But intellectually I realized I could never buy it, and I'd stop going. I also discovered that if I followed xian precepts in this world, I got kicked around like a soccer ball.

My current husband's parents are devout Catholics and my sister-in-law is a devout Lutheran of the in-your-face variety. Once she told my husband and me that we were not fit to be her newborn's godparents, because we were not religious and because we had lived together before getting married. The presence of her in our lives has again caused the religious guilt, that I realize has been part of me all my life, to come to the fore. I have lately come to realize that it's all voodoo and that I need to shed the remains of the brainwashing of my youth, even though it was "only Protestant Lite." The more I shed it, the more content and less conflicted I am. I am finding it easier to shed now that I have found a community of non-believers here.

7 comments:

All-4-Him said...

I am sorry to hear about your experiences in church. Someone once said that he loved our Christ but hated our Christians. The thing to remember about us Christians is that none of us are perfect, we can make mistakes that can hurt others. A true Christian (not a fake one trying to be self-righteous) and a non-Christian are the same in that they both are not perfect. The difference is that the Christian believes that God has forgiven them. Many of you talk about how bad God is. I am sorry to hear that. I want to tell you that Jesus Christ is not bad, but 100% good. You all talk about religion being garbage. I agree; religion is junk. Being with Christ is about a relationship, it is not a religion, because religion requires that we follows rules and laws and regulations. Unfortunately, as humans, we will always break these laws. We cannot follow them; it is beyond us. The thing is, when you have faith in Christ, and make him you King of Kings He helps you keep those laws that everyone talks about. When you accept Christ, He comes to dwell in you, and He is the one that helps you. To understand what that relationship is truly like, read the Bible, it will show you the love that God has in his heart. True, hell is a very real place. If you have questions about that I can try to answer them. But now I just want you to know that God is good, and that He and I care about you and the other individuals on this site that have decided to go away from God. Though none of you want to believe it, the truth is that God is real. God doesn't believe in atheists. God will always be with you, even when you reject him. He is a loving God. I am not trying to be all lovey dovy with you guys, but the truth is when you accept Christ into your heart, it hurts to see individuals such as yourselves that have felt so much pain in this life. I once was like you all. I didn't totally reject God, but I felt he was in my way of enjoying life, and I even blamed him for my hurts. The truth is, God never was in my way and it wasn't Him that casued my hurts, it was my rebelious attitude that caused my pain. I finally accepted that, God wants us to enjoy life and have good relationships with others. I know some of you will have hate on your hearts for me, and that is fine. I can take your comments, and I am willing to try and answer any questions you have. The greatest way to combat hate is with love. I can't wait to hear from you all.

Nick

boomSLANG said...

All-4-him said: "The thing to remember about us Christians is that none of us are perfect, we can make mistakes that can hurt others."

Another thing to remember is that you can also make mistakes that hurt yourself, as in, erroneously believing that you have the one and only "True" interpretation of the Holy Bible, thereby, wasting a great portion of your life worshipping the wrong God. Furthermore, since God---as personal "being"---contradicts science; contradicts logic; contradicts conceptually, you would be spending a great portion of your life believing a lie. Not good. Furthermore, if the Bible was a "Universal Truth", we wouldn't be having this conversation. Has anyone ever seen a human being in it's infancy? Of course, and so, that's why it's Universally known that the notion that babies come from storks is a fable---a MYTH. Logical people aren't debating where babies come from because it is EVIDENT where they come from. Conversely, the existance of a deity is NOT evident.

All-4-him said: "A true Christian (not a fake one trying to be self-righteous) and a non-Christian are the same in that they both are not perfect."

Irrelevant conclusion. We're imperfect because we're human, not because of our religious affiliation. The difference is that the Religionist posits that they are guided by objective and "Divine" moral codes which have been bequeathed to them from a "God", per a Holy book. Thus, anyone and EVERYONE who adhere's to said Holy book is self-righteous--whether they admit it, or not. Whether they claim to be "perfect" or not, is irrelevant to the conclusion.

All-4-him said: "The difference is that the Christian believes that God has forgiven them."

Forgiven them? Why?...for creating them exactly as they are? For knowing, IN ADVANCE, that they would "sin", and thus, NEED forgiveness later on? That's like someone slashing your tire and then trying to sell you a jack and wrench---and if you don't accept their "help"?...they set you on fire. This isn't "salvation", it's manipulation...nothing less. THINK about what you believe and WHY you believe it.

All-4-her said: "Being with Christ is about a relationship, it is not a religion, because religion requires that we follows rules and laws and regulations."

Possibly the oldest Christian soundbite since the 60's movement. Where does it say in the bible that "Christ is about a relationship"?(And don't you guy's usually capitalize the word "relationship"?...tisk, tisk) Furthermore, I repectfully call you IN-frickin'-SANE if you think that the Bible is not a book of "rules and laws and regulations." Is the bible the inerrant "word of God", or isn't it? Should we follow it?...or shouldn't we?(rhetorical)

All-4-him said: "The thing is, when you have faith in Christ, and make him you King of Kings He helps you keep those laws that everyone talks about."

King of Kings? Ummm, is "God" a "King"?..or a "God"? ' Just more inconcise language left to interpretation. And "He" helps you with WHAT "laws"???? You JUST said it's not about "laws". More contradicting double-talk.



Interuption.....

(I was going to keep quoting and dismantling this guy's entire post, but it's just too annoying to read line after line after line of condescending patronizing tripe)

All-4-Him said...

Boomslang,

You say, "Forgiven them? Why?...for creating them exactly as they are? For knowing, IN ADVANCE, that they would "sin", and thus, NEED forgiveness later on?"

If you knew you were going to have a child, and there is a possibility that child would commit murder later in life, would you still have that child. I would. If that child did commit murder, would you still love him/her. I would. Knowing your child commited murder, would you believe that he/she should be taken to jail. I would. However, if the jury sentenced your child to death for his/her actions, wouldn't you do everything in your power to try and get him/her off the death penalty. I would. Knowing all of the possibilites of what could happen in life, wouldn't you still have that child. That is the way God is. He knows we are going to do dumb things, but because He loves us He is still willing to let us exist. When we do something wrong, God has taken the proper steps to ensure we aren't given the death penalty.

As far as where it says in the Bible that Christ is about a relationship, I am not a Bible scholar, and I cannot tell you if there is anywhere where it specifically says that verse, but I can tell you that is what the 4 Gospels are about. If you read the Gospels, you will recognize the relationship that the disciples have with Christ. You can tell that as the disciples become more intimate with Christ, their lives are changed to imitate Christ's being. They are not changed because they 'follow the sabbath' or because they 'don't murder'. They are changed because they want to be like Christ, they want to know Him, and they make Him their best friend.

What does God say about us following laws, since you used the bible I will too.

“Behold, days are coming,” declares the Lord, “when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah, not like the covenant which I made with their fathers in the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, although I was a husband to them,” declares the Lord. “But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days,” declares the Lord, “I will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. They will not teach again, each man his neighbor and each man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them,” declares the Lord, “for I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more” (Jeremiah 31:31-34).


But when Christ appeared as a high priest of the good things to come, He entered through the greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this creation; and not through the blood of goats and calves, but through His own blood, He entered the holy place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption. For if the blood of goats and bulls and the ashes of a heifer sprinkling those who have been defiled sanctify for the cleansing of the flesh, how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without blemish to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? For this reason He is the mediator of a new covenant, so that, since a death has taken place for the redemption of the transgressions that were committed under the first covenant, those who have been called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance (Hebrews 9:11-15).

You see, Boomslang, the first covenant was about rules and laws, but God saw that we couldn't follow those laws. So he created a second covenant, also called the new covenant. This new covenant isn't about whether or not you break rules, but whether you believe in Jesus Christ. But I guess to you that is just another law. If so, please see the above about having a relationship with Christ.

I don't know if you know anything about analogies, but when we say to make Christ our King of Kings, what we are saying is that we are to place Him above all others. We are to imitate God. You might say that following God's ways are just a series of rules. Do you think it is a rule for me to have compassion on others? That's not a rule, that is a lifestyle that is changed through a new heart. Before I believed in Christ I was not a compasionate person. Christ changed me.

I know I haven't answered all of your questions. I have to go spend some time with my family. But I have enjoyed your comments boomslang. Keep them coming. Go Ravens.

.:webmaster:. said...

To all-4-him:

And if you knew your child, along with untold millions of his or her siblings, were going to spend all of eternity, forever and ever and ever, in horrific incomprehensible agony, in a torturous hell of fire that YOU built, would you still have that child?

Says all-4-him, "I would!"

Then you and your god are more sadistic than 1000 Hitlers.

And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.—Matt 10:28

Your god doesn't love his children, a-4, HE threatens them with everlasting wrath and anger for measly temporal errors. In fact, the biggest thing that pisses off your petty tribal deity is unbelief! Just not believing in HIM makes HIM sooooooo angry, that he flies into a rampage, casting those errant children of his into the fiery pits of hell, in outer darkness, where they will gnash their teeth in pain, and where their "worm dieth not."

Answer this a-4-h, what sins have you committed in your life that you believe warrant a torturous eternity in hell? I mean, the punishment should fit the crime, shouldn't it? How long should you burn in hell before justice is served for all your heinous crimes against God and man? I know the list must be long, but share some of the atrocities you've committed. For an eternity in hell, you must of done some bad stuff!

Or look at it this way: Is torture, even for a day, proper and humane justice? If GOD thinks torturing his children, forever is the right thing to do, then perhaps we should adopt a more rigorous criminal justice system to better emulate God's system. Perhaps the Islamics have a better understanding of God's justice than we do! Torture is common in that part of the world. They seem closer to the Biblical model of justice than we do. Should we adopt the same Bronze-aged thinking as the Islamics?

And by the way, Christianity is a religion. I've said this about a thousand times, but the word "relationship" is not in any version of any Bible — none. However, religion is touched on quite a number of times in the Bible. In fact, here's a link from Nave's Topical Bible for you to investigate on just how many times religion is talked about: link.

Here's a nice couple of verses on religion: James 1:26–27 says, "If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain. Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world."

Hmm, sure sounds like religion to me.

Again, you will not find "It's a relationship, not a religion" anywhere in the Bible. It just isn't there. Preachers say it all the time, but it's not scripture, and it's not even historic Christianity. It's evangelical tripe to attract converts.

Now, if this religion of yours makes you feel good, then by all means enjoy it. But don't annoy us with it. We've given that nonsense up.

.:webmaster:. said...

Oh, and all-4-him. That section of Jeremiah you're so enamored with? It was written to the Jews. That section of the Bible has nothing to do with Christians.

Also, do you know who wrote the book of Hebrews? I'll give you hint: No one knows. It was written anonymously, and only accepted into the Bible in the fourth century after quite a bit of arguing, and then only by a narrow majority.

Regardless of who wrote it, it appears to have been written to the Jews who had accepted Jesus as their messiah, and were wondering why he hadn't set up the kingdom as promised. They were falling away, apparently, because the Apocalypse that he'd said would come in their lifetimes never happened. So, the writer of Hebrews spiritualizes and reinterprets everything. No longer are we too look for an actual kingdom on earth, we are too spiritualize everything and fantasize about things we can't see.

Well, before I get too deep, I suggest you go to the library and read some books on where the Bible actually came from, how and why the various writings in the Bible were decided to be authentic, and find out about the many writings that were decided against and why. And when you read Bible verses, read them in context. Don't pull them out like magic spells and spout them like lines from a Harry Potter movie. The sentences from the Bible are just like sentences in any other book and can only be properly understood in the context of the story from which they are written.

All-4, remember one thing: Your church will only teach you to believe; it will never teach you to think.

boomSLANG said...

All-4 Him/Her/it asked: "If you knew you were going to have a child, and there is a possibility that child would commit murder later in life, would you still have that child. I would."

Um, let me get this straight--- you're comparing "A child" and "A murder" to your God putting ALL of humanity at risk? That's an utterly absurd comparison....borderline, InSaNe. But to answer your question---if I could be "Omniscient" like your "God"; if I could know, IN advance, that my child would be none other than Jeffrey Dahmer, the infamous child molesting killer?....HELL no, I would NOT bring him into existance.

Next:

Quote--"However, if the jury sentenced your child to death for his/her actions, wouldn't you do everything in your power to try and get him/her off the death penalty. I would. Knowing all of the possibilites of what could happen in life, wouldn't you still have that child. That is the way God is. He knows we are going to do dumb things, but because He loves us He is still willing to let us exist. When we do something wrong, God has taken the proper steps to ensure we aren't given the death penalty."

Please don't trivialize the act of taking someone elses life by saying it is merely a "dumb thing". Thanks. Stealing a T-bone steak from Publix is a "dumb thing"; identity theft is a "dumb thing"; tax fraud is a "dumb thing"(The IRS IS omniscient).

Next:

Quote--"As far as where it says in the Bible that Christ is about a relationship, I am not a Bible scholar, and I cannot tell you if there is anywhere where it specifically says that verse, but I can tell you that is what the 4 Gospels are about."

Newsflash: You don't have to be a "scholar" to merely READ a specific book, or locate specific text in that book. The fact is, there is NOTHING that specifically says that "Christ is 'about' a Relationship". You, like millions more Christians, simple put your own spin on what the Bible actually says.

Next:

Quote---"You see, Boomslang, the first covenant was about rules and laws, but God saw that we couldn't follow those laws. So he created a second covenant, also called the new covenant."

Oh, I got it....so the first time your God used poor judgement in making either, A) the "laws" too stringent for us to follow....or B) humankind---Christian's included---too f%cking stupid to follow them.(so he decided to drown them. lol) Either way, your God made a mistake, per YOUR very own explanation. Only man-made Gods make mistakes, Nick.(Yes, I'm expecting you to try and weasle-word your way out of it)

Next:

Quote---"I don't know if you know anything about analogies, but when we say to make Christ our King of Kings, what we are saying is that we are to place Him above all others."

Yes, "analogies"---"similarities", by some definitions. If I pick up a greeting card, I might find and expect it to say: "Be My Valentine". However, if I pick up a book supposedly authored/inspired by the Creator of the f%cking Universe, I would expect concise language with ZERO ambiguity. King = king. "Kings" means more than one. If YOU say "king = God", and your holy book says "king of kingS"... then a reasonable person could conclude that there's more than ONE "God". If there's more than one God, then maybe Zeus is the right God...? Again, the Bible, like all other "Holy" books, is a big subjective grab-bag.

Next:

Quote---"Before I believed in Christ I was not a compasionate person. Christ changed me."

I'm sorry to hear that. I'm sorry you have to be "told" how to be compassionate. I find it very sad, actually. Aaah, the power of the religious meme.

All-4-Him said...

Boomslang said:

"Furthermore, if the Bible was a "Universal Truth", we wouldn't be having this conversation. Has anyone ever seen a human being in it's infancy? Of course, and so, that's why it's Universally known that the notion that babies come from storks is a fable"


Yet some people still believe that babies come from Storks. I wonder why that is? Some people will always argue against something for arguments sake, no matter what proof there is against it. You chose to argue against God. I may not be able to convince you that He is real, but He can, and eventually He will.

If it wasn't a universal truth, you wouldn't be here trying to make yourself feel better by talking to others that don't believe in God. Instead, you know God is tugging at you, and you hate it. You are looking for arguments to make you feel better; to make you feel that you are right and we are wrong. I know that feeling, the feeling that you care. That is God. God is real.

I know God is real because I have felt His prescence. I have seen the splendor of what God has to offer. Do you want see what God can do? Watch a child be born, or watch a sunset. Declare to me there is no God. The more I read the Word, the more I come to realize how real God is. I am not here to convert you. I don't believe I have the power to do that. The apostle Paul declared that he didn't convince others about Christ through articulate speaking, but rather by the simple truth of Christ crucified. I believe that only God will soften your heart to believe in Him. It is your decision to do so, or not. That is freewill. On a side note, thanks for serving our country webmaster. I, too, served. I was in the Marines. My MOS school was at Keesler AFB in Biloxi. I can really tell you, the Air Force knows how to treat its people. By the way, I love your sons name, James. What a biblical name that is:) God bless you guys. Keep it coming.

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