Thank-you God for opening my mind

Sent in by Trudy H

I am beginning a journey to find truth.

The problem with religion, all religions, including Christianity, is the belief theat they have all the answers. The truth is, no one can ever have all the answers.

We are all on a journey to find truth. As soon as you become part of a religion you get a "package of beliefs," and you no longer need to search for truth or answers: You are right and everyone else is wrong.

Anything that stops you from thinking, growing, searching is not beneficial. Truth should cause you to open up, not close up. People come to church for friendship, fellowship, comfort, etc. which are good things to find, but it is a high price to pay if you no longer are able to challenge beliefs or search for truth.

Thank-you God for opening my mind. Help me to continue to search for truth.

I wrote this yesterday while sitting in my church.

I have just started on this journey. I was raised in a good Christian home. It is hard for me to think about leaving a faith that has given me hope and meaning for many years but I cannot remain in it if it is not true. My husband actually started this journey over 10 years ago. He attended church as a child with his grandparents, but came to the conclusion as an adult that it was not true. I have been slower in coming to that conclusion. My husband says that it is hard for me to give it up because of my close relationship to my family and friends who are believers. I am interested in seeking truth, but I also do not feel a need to put down Christians.

Why the pic of Calvin peeing on the Jesus fish? Not necessary for intelligent discussion. Why the pic of the demons and the naked women?

Sometimes I think people who leave the church are just bitter and immature. Why can't we discuss beliefs without putting down others beliefs. If I wanted things shoved down my throat I could stay in the church.

24 comments:

notblindedbytheblight said...

I can understand what you are saying, but in some cases negativity is needed in order to come out of the mindset. I was that way myself for several years.

I have now discovered that there is truth in Christianity in the form of spiritual truth. Not so much literal truth, but truth that applies to the lives of the reader. Any good story has the capacity to invoke in the reader an awakening to the insights of our own lives.

It may not be factually true, but it doesn't mean that there are no truths. On one hand you have believers that say the facts are true, then you have the atheists that say if the facts are false then it's all false. Neither is correct.

notblindedbytheblight said...

I just wanted to correct my major assumptions about atheists in my post above. Not all atheists will say that Christianity is entirely false. My apologies to the atheists.

Harlequin said...

The 'naked ladies and demons' is from a set of painting in a church in Orvieto...

God save me from loud mouth know nothings...

Just Rick said...

But aren't you simply making a new religion. You've pointed out a fault in the old religion and simply present a better idea - a new way of 'finding god' that is more appealing and more logical than the old methods. They were blind and close-minded about their idea of god, so you present the new idea to be open minded and maluable about god because it feels better for you.

Ok, fine. But doesn't this just support the idea that god is simply man-made? You point out how blind previous followers are because they've given up their search for truth by accepting what their relition tells them through faith. This suggests that everyone has "done it wrong" for all this time but were to closeminded to recognize it. Would any real god allow people to remain that ignorant about HIM for so long? All those lost people? Especially when there are claims of needing to embrace god for salvation?

This simply looks like once again someone is cherry-picking the bible (or whatever holy book of whatever religion is used) for what someone likes and is more acceptable. In the end ANY knowledge of a god that we have is from a book. A book that can be proven to be less than accurate and often manipulated by people. Doesn't this simply prove that god, as depicted in these books, is patently false? Throw out the book then anything you know about god vanishes. We are all born atheists - it is when people tell us about god that we know anything - and ultimately anyone and everyone got that knowledge from a book.

Sure, we may never definitively prove that god exists or not, but we can certainly prove what versions of god that are presented are true or not.

Accepting for the moment the idea that there is a creator - aren't we all still pretty much in the dark about who or what that creator is and what demands/desires/expectations that this god has on us? We cannot trust any current religious documents because they have all been blatently edited by human hands (often with results that are ridiculous and illogical and certainly not divine). So in the end trying to build a society around what people claim "god wants" is a lie.

The things we "know" about god are simply things that past people made up because the expected thats what gods would do (demand prayer, pass judgement, punish evil-doers, etc). God either is or is not, but in either case it is beyond us. If there is a creator and he wants us to do or know something, we'll do or know it. That simple. Until such a time that a being like this makes itself known the only honest thing to do is build our society based on what WE find moral and true, not what a bunch of stone-age people thought a god would want.

xrayman said...

When I first logged onto this site and saw the pic of the dude peeing on the Jesus fish I knew I was in the right place after I had just ended 43 years of wishy washy God belief.

I think it is pretty darn funny myself and all I have to say is fuck anyone who can't take a joke. That little cartoon sums up the whole primiss of this site: Religion is a fucking joke.

.:webmaster:. said...

Anonying tests.

eel_shepherd said...

Why the Calvin peeing on the Jesus fish?

Because peeing is real and the Jesus fish is false. He's improving that fish. (Real passing through real back out into the real.) The irony is that it's Calvin, a kid with an imaginary friend, Hobbes. But at least it's his own imaginary friend.

The demons and the maiden? This is the type of image that made up the daily thoughts of ordinary people when religion was the dominant force in the world. We ought not forget it.

Seekergirl said...

Thank-you for the comments that were left. It is nice to know people are looking at the site and responding. I agree with you just rick that we need to find morality in ourselves and not in some written book. Why should we follow the views written thousands of years ago if it doesn't make any sense. Lets keep the dialogue going.

Anonymous said...

Trudy,

I hear you. It is difficult at the beginning.

However, I have to tell you something I discovered: It is not all a lie. Let me explain.

The dogma is a lie. The fact that they are right and everyone else is wrong is a lie. That you are a sinner is lie.

But there are other good things that you learned in church that were good. Other people learned the same stuff from their parents or at school from good teachers, and you happen to have learned in church (some stuff anyway).

For example, it is good to be a loving person--you can never go wrong by being loving. It is good to forgive--those who don't are bitter people. It isn't good to lie--it gets you in trouble if you do.

The thing to learn is that goodness is universal. It is NOT the exclusive dominion of the religious.

So, take it one day a time. As you learn to think for yourself, you will discover a lot of neat stuff and you will develop into a more secure person.

Good luck!

Seekergirl said...

Lorena,
Thank-you for your thoughtful comments. It is difficult at first. It is such new terrain and I'm used to the old. Can you tell me about your journey? Thanks, Trudy

Steven Bently said...

To seekergirl,

May I suggest for you click on Lorena's name and it will take you directly to her personal blog, where she has posted some very insightful comments about her religious experiences and after leaving Christianity.

John said...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Cosmos, Abiogenesis & Free-thinkers

Question: Which Came First?
John Stone


There is an almost insurmountable problem facing many who come out of the fiction called xianity. It effects those who call themselves free-thinkers or atheists. This problem is simply that the lies of xianity continue to effect them.

Ever since birth, children have been told that jezuz is god -- jezuz is the "xian" god incarnate who came to earth as a "man." This grows into one of the most stupid inventions of all -- the xian "trinity" of god, jezuz, holey ghast -- one and the same -- same substance, all god yada, yada, yada.

So, it is logical -- when one discovers the fiction of jezuz and leave this farce -- to "ass-u-me" that since there is no jezuz, there is no G-d. OOPS! A major blunder and total lapse in logic.

Just because xianity is a fraud and jezuz -- with his band of merry men -- are fiction does not destroy the Source of everything. That Source created time, gravity, dark matter, dark energy, our solar system, the universe, electrons, protons, neutrons, quarks, leptons and mesons -- the inner workings of the atom. Also, endlessness, infinity and beyond, and nothingness -- all are creations. Jezuz, xianity, man-made religion have nothing to do with this very Source of ALL. As a matter of fact, they have nothing to do with anything of substance in the cosmos or our life. Our Creator keeps ALL in place; us living; the universe expanding -- moment-by-moment, like a heart beat. Scientists have recently discovered a heart beat -- unceasing pulses in the universe.

I hear from many newbie "atheists" and "free-thinkers" who throw all of this knowledge -- the baby with the bath water -- out the window when they leave the man-made religion of xianity behind. This is a classic case of ignorance -- IGNORing facts; the very facts that science continues to discover as time passes. Almost every decade or less, astrophysics, particle physics et al discover a new paradigm and have to abandon their old paradigm.

So here we have these persons newly freed from the prison of xian theology (atheists, free-thinkers) IGNORing our very Creation and our Creator. Instead these newly "free-thinkers" reject a Creator, while only seeing the very xian vision -- long ago implanted in their psych -- an anthropomorphic image of a god as jezuz or an old white haired man with long beard. Mormons are so nutty they even declare that their god was a man living on the planet Kolob.

Then the debate continues -- xian vs.. free-thinkers (atheists) -- evolution vs.. creation, yada, yada, yada. The nut cases on each side stoning the other when neither has a grain of wisdom! Funny, but Mr.. Evolutionist doesn't even consider that his primordial ooze was a Creation by the source of Creation. Conversely the Creation nuts are dominated by xian fundys claiming that jezuz was the creator of all -- citing John 1:1 from the xian holey babble fiction.

The atheists and free-thinkers ran from xianity, but still have a xian/jezuz "ball and chain" attached to their brains and logic. So the following Michael Savage story has even more significance -- the hobo has a better grasp on the cosmos that atheists and free-thinkers.
Michael asked him "Do you believe in G-d?"
To which the "traveler" replied, "What! Do you think I created myself?" He then turned and walked away.
So what have we learned? Free-thinkers (atheists) are not real thinkers, but merely innocent people in a blind rebellion against the fiction of xianity and it purveyors -- theologians, clergy, missionaries and apologists. In so doing, they IGNORE their Creator and even science. These "free-thinkers" need to study the consequences of Professor Mike Disney (Astrophysicist, School of Physics & Astronomy, Cardiff University) declaration:

"The greatest obstacle to advancement in science is the illusion of knowledge."

Now is the time to provide some pertinent insights from the Rebbe -- ponder them, for therein lies wisdom!
"The atheist, too, has a god, and it is himself."

The idolater at least understands there is something greater than him, something beyond the grasp of his physical senses, some external forces to which he is subject."

"But for the atheist, all the universe is defined by his own understanding, all ethics and morals are subject to his approval and even he himself is an artifact of his own mind."

"He is a self-made man, for he creates his own universe and squeezes himself inside it."
_________________________

"Any reason we may suppose for G-d's will could not be the ultimate reason. The finite mind cannot begin to fathom an infinite wisdom--never mind that which brought forth wisdom from the Void. The ultimate knowledge is that we do not know."

"That there are matters we don't understand is obvious--how could the finite intellect of an inherently subjective mortal being, imprisoned within the confines of time and space, be expected to fathom the infinite wisdom of the Creator? The great wonder is that there are matters we can understand."

"True, G-d knows all before it occurs. More than that: It is His knowledge that brings all events into being. But we still have free choice. You claim this is illogical. I ask you: Knowledge of existence before any thought of any thing exists is logical? When we talk about the Source of All Existence, our principles of logic no longer apply. We don't understand a thing, because there is no understanding."
_________________________
Perhaps for the "free-thinkers/atheists" it would be best for them to think outside of their xian colored mind-set; grasp the Hebrew name for our Creator, cosmic unity -- Ein-Sof -- endlessness -- meaning the Being that has “no end."

Perhaps when the CR course on the fiction of jezuz -- the non-historical character of the xian bible -- finishes, we should republish a fantastic book, Mind Over Matter, the Rebbe on Science, Technology and Medicine. In it, one gets right down into the middle of science -- theories, facts, quarks and much, much more. Yep, right down to particle physics.

So free-thinkers/atheists -- start to cleanse your brains of your lingering subconscious xian influence. Then you can really think free. There is whole new universe out there waiting for you! Who knows, you might even discover it for yourself!

Oh yeah, regarding abiogenesis; which came first, the primordial ooze or Ein-Sof?

John

Anonymous said...
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Anonymous said...

Hi trudy (seekergirl),

You ask about my journey. I've been writing a blog for a year about all of it. My first few postings show how confused I was. You can find my blog by clicking on my name. That will take you to my profile which has a link to the blog (On Leaving Fundamentalist Christianity.)

Good luck!

Dave8 said...

John: "Perhaps for the "free-thinkers/atheists" it would be best for them to think outside of their xian colored mind-set; grasp the Hebrew name for our Creator, cosmic unity -- Ein-Sof -- endlessness -- meaning the Being that has “no end."

She-en lo tiklah, or en kelohenu?

Seekergirl said...

Hi! There are definitely some deep thinkers at this site. Lots to mull over John. I checked your blog Lorena. I will look at it in more depth when I get a chance. Wishing everyone a great day.

Rich said...

Quote
That Source created time, gravity, dark matter, dark energy, our solar system, the universe, electrons, protons, neutrons, quarks, leptons and mesons -- the inner workings of the atom. Also, endlessness, infinity and beyond, and nothingness -- all are creations. Jezuz, xianity, man-made religion have nothing to do with this very Source of ALL. As a matter of fact, they have nothing to do with anything of substance in the cosmos or our life. Our Creator keeps ALL in place; us living; the universe expanding -- moment-by-moment, like a heart beat. Scientists have recently discovered a heart beat -- unceasing pulses in the universe.
unquote
So because there are things we cannot explain (yet) we must accept some supernatural explanation". This is nothing more than the "god of the gaps". This is a false dichotomy. Atheists are not afraid of admitting there are many things we do not know. The real choice is between fantasy and having the courage to face a universe that wants to kill us, free of dizzy explanations.

dano said...

Rich wrote:
"The real choice is between fantasy and having the courage to face a universe that wants to kill us, free of dizzy explanations."

Dan:> The irony of our predicament is that we are at a precipice in our evolution, half cavemen and half modern man. The caveman in us is grasping our little God blankies as tight as we can, and the modern part of us is saying: Enough of the silly mythological stuff already!

The Universe may very well bump us off before we grow up. It doesn't care. Time means nothing to "it,"

All we can do is hope that all will be "kept," and we will find our rightful place in the cosmos.
Dan (Agnostic, Deist)

eel_shepherd said...

Deep-thinkin' John wrote:
"...Our Creator keeps ALL in place;..."

How do you know that? How do you know it all doesn't just keep itself in place?

Do you truly believe that all that stuff about higher science formed the basis of the thinking that went into the writing of the old testament?

imaginary sky daddy said...

I've noticed that atheists are just as sure that there's no afterlife as christians or any other religions are just as sure there is. It makes no more sense to me than religion. You can't be sure there's no afterlife because you haven't died, and just because no one has come to you that has passed, that doesn't mean there is or isn't an afterlife either. Webmaster, you express yourself very well. Will you as an atheist explain this please? I'm not an agnostic, because I don't think there's a god out there. And to me a god is something that you give reverence to. My label, if you will is an existentialist. Thanks a bunch for this great site, Webmaster.


ex·is·ten·tial·ism (ĕg'zĭ-stĕn'shə-lĭz'əm, ĕk'sĭ-)
n.
A philosophy that emphasizes the uniqueness and isolation of the individual experience in a hostile or indifferent universe, regards human existence as unexplainable, and stresses freedom of choice and responsibility for the consequences of one's acts.

Jim Arvo said...

imaginary sky daddy said " I've noticed that atheists are just as sure that there's no afterlife as christians or any other religions are just as sure there is. It makes no more sense to me than religion."

I hear this type of assertion frequently and, frankly, it makes no sense to me at all. Let me illustrate with a hypothetical situation.

Let's say I have a friend, Bob, who tells me that there are advanced intelligent life forms living on a planet similar to ours, but in another star system in the Andromeda galaxy. Intrigued, I ask Bob how he knows this. Bob produces a Ouija board and asserts that it very clearly spelled out "jdgfgueaskdnvhhalksidhfk" which, to anyone skilled in interpreting readings from the tenth-dimension, unequivocally proves the existence of said beings.

Seeing Bob's method of acquiring his "empirical" data, I promptly dismiss it as bunk. I dismiss it because I have seen many such claims based on silly notions such as Ouija boards, and I have every reason to view them as complete garbage. I also dismiss it because Bob's claim is specific and fantastic. If he had merely claimed that there was a star system with eight planets somewhere else in the universe, I would have simply shrugged and said "maybe", thinking that the claim was at least plausible, despite his source.

Now, in the case of Bob's claim, his assertion is not disproved by pointing to his methodological shortcoming. Indeed, for all we know, there may be such advanced aliens. So, I do not dismiss Bob's claim because I know that it is not true, but rather because there is no credible evidence to support it. Do you see the difference?

Let's now go back to atheists "being sure" there is no afterlife. Do they know there is no afterlife? No, they do not. Do they dismiss claims that there is an afterlife, on the grounds that there is no credible evidence to support that fantastic claim? Yes, you bet they do. And that's precisely the point.

In my view, the "evidence" proffered by religionists in support of an afterlife is not appreciably better than Bob's appeal to the Ouija board. All the available evidence that exists today suggests that our thoughts, feelings, memories, and behaviors are all functions of the brain; when the brain ceases to function, all aspects of a persons mental life also ceases. Hence, there is nothing whatsoever to suggest that a personality can magically continue to exist after death.

Does it make more sense to you now?

(I originally posted this reply in the wrong thread...)

RubySera said...

Imaginary Sky Daddy, I agree with Jim Arvo. I don't know if I'm an atheist but I see no evidence for God's existence. The atheists I know make that claim, too. I feel uncomfortable with people who make absolute claims either for this world or any other.

Kenneth said...

All this reminds me of a story I once read. I am a Chronicles of Narnia fan, and I have read all of the books. BTW, the following is a spoiler for the last book, The Last Battle. In it, a clever and devious monkey finds a lion's skin in the river. He takes it and puts it on a donkey, and then parades the donkey around as if he is Aslan, the real lion and king of Narnia. He makes all the Narnians do all kinds of nasty and horrible things, supposedly on the orders of Aslan, which is of course just the donkey dressed up with the lion's skin. In the end, the trickery is discovered, and order is restored.

Unfortunately, the dwarves, having been fooled by the donkey facade, now refuse to believe in the real Aslan, even though he shows himself to them. Anything good or pleasant comes across as plain or even terrible - wine tastes like bitter water, cake tastes like rotten bread, etc. They cannot appreciate the real thing because they were at one time fooled by a lie.

This story often comes to mind as I continue my journey in life. I maintain my position as an atheist, due to the overwhelming lack of evidence, and I leave the burden of proof with the religious where it belongs. But I have tried to regain my sense of wonder and my curious questioning nature as to how the universe came about, and what the real deal is behind the whole of existence. Although I don't believe in "God" as he is defined by religion, I am not satisfied with the premise that everything just came about somehow. I do not believe in making insubstantial and unverifiable claims - but the wise atheist will note that this works both ways. I think I fall somewhere in the same category as Carl Sagan, who did not believe in God but never lost his wonder and awe as to the beauty and magnificence of life, the universe, humanity, and the whole of existence. I am trying to not be like the dwarves who adopted the "Once burned" mentality. Doing this only allows religion to ultimately get the last laugh.

Fretbuzz said...

Hi Trudy!

I see you have family also within "the fold" as they call it. Well the same goes for me too .. I have many people in my life who are bible believers, but perhaps what saved me from much of the hatred towards Christians (ie. those pictures you mentioned + some of what you read in these forums) is that my family is not fundamentalist in their attitude. If anything, my family has gone into a more "personalized" version of Christianity. I don't think that this is necessarily the way that the religion has to go, but more and more of former Churchmates I know are going into small groups, home churches, studies etc. because they can't stand the corporate model that most churches have gone towards. I too am thankful for an open mind, and feel that whatever you want to call it (God, Brahamin, The Tao, etc.) has given me this as well. I also have open arms, and want to continue to show compassion and love to all people in my life.

Anyways, if you get a chance stop by my blog - it's a blog for Ex Christian Fraser Valley-ites (click my name)

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