From one Minority to another
sent in by Charmika Stewart
Because I am a black American, I was born into a Christian family. I would be hardpressed to name just two other non-famous black atheists, and even the one I know is most definitely in the closet. For to be black is to be Christian in America. It's a cultural thing, I suppose, dating back to slavery. The church is a strong institution in the culture, where blacks get together and discuss life and bond, and for the longest time it was the only place that this was possible.
My parents were not very religious when I was a child, attending church only about twice a month and never really mentioning God to me terribly much except when they told me it was necessary to pray. My half-sisters, however, all belonged to horrendous Christian cults that have since been disbanded. My oldest sister took me with her to church when I was fairly young, and I became a Pentacostal. My mother, rather disenchanted with the Pentacostal faith, quickly snatched me from its clutches after a few short years and rejoined the church of her youth, bringing me and my two young brothers with me.
We lived in semi-poverty during this years, and attended a church of people in essentially the same social bracket. Due to the squalor, there were exceedingly few persons to be found (in a church of over 1000) who had any form of intelligence. I was the only young person there with a modest intellect, and because of this I became a local celebrity. I wrote plays and poems, tutored, gave speeches, and was elevated beyond my peers. The more I learned, the more I incorporated into my studies, but much to their dismay, I was never too interested in furthering my Christian study. Nevertheless, like my mother, I was deeply religious and rejected all things secular. Indeed, secular was the worst possible thing any one notion could be, and so I rejected everything, even secular music.
During my later puberty years, around 14 or 15, I was very torn, for my longing for men (and occasionally women) conflicted with my religious conviction. Masturbation was wrong, and thus I could never do it. Seminars on "sexual counterfeits" filled me with insurmountabl guilt. (To this day, the guilt that I suffered as a child from sexual fantasy, masturbation, etc, remains something impossible to overcome.) I, nonetheless, remained steadfast in my faith until around my senior year of high school.
It was around this time that my heavily religious mother stopped taking us to chuch 4+ times per week, and I had more time to focus on school. The more I learned, the more I realized that nothing that was being said in church made sense. I began studying the bible on my own and found that it had so many contradictions, so much hypocrisy, and exceedingly little moral value to it. What got to me the most, however, was how God kept "making promises" to my church and breaking them. I couldn't see how these people could reconcile all these obviously wrong things about their faith. On day the pastor was giving a sermon and the thought "God doesn't exist" came through my mind. I was instantly dismayed, and thought for certain that I was going to Hell. I tried to renew my faith, and told myself that I would never become an atheist. My family was too religious, and we heard very often of how the world was going to end fairly soon. I also couldn't offer any explanation of where the world came from if not God, so I didn't see a reason to reject him. Just because I didn't like some things and others didn't make sense, I didn't see it as a reason to immediately reject him. After all, so many people are Christian, they couldn't all be wrong... could they?
One day, my church did something that troubled me greatly. They started attacking evolution and homosexuals. Despite my fervent religion, I never thought the earth was created in just six days and that mountains of scientific evidence for an old earth was at all accurate. I could also not believe that something as inherent as homosexuality could really be condemnable. Although it was always a background issue, I never thought the church's stance on these things was really as fire and brimstone as it seemed. This turned me off to that particular branch of Christianity, and when I entered college, things made another unsuspected turn.
I joined the Chi Alpha Christian Fellowship because I figured "white Christianity" had to be less extreme than "black Christianity." I was pleasantly surprised by the music, the acknowledgment of real life and the similarity in culture of the members. I had alway identified more with what people deem "the white culture" anyway, given that most of my friends and all of my boyfriends had been white. However, it was during this time that most of my Christian friends were losing their faith and I was alone in my resolution to be a Christian to the day I died. I was left with these very shallow people with this branch of Christianity that was becoming more and more evangelical, something I could not accept. Looking back on things, perhaps had I become associated with the Methodist church, I wouldn't have been so turned off, nor would my friends be so interested in trying to "rescue me" from the crazy cult I had joined.
During the next few months I immersed myself in the study of philosophy and physics, and both of which were subtly hinting to me that my faith was nothing but a mound of contradictions and was not to be trusted. It was, however, it was my own family's fervent religion that finally sent me on a quest for God. I had just entered a relationship with a boy who was questioning his faith as well, and when he finally accepted that God was just a figment of our imagination, I decided that I really had to find God. After several weeks of intense study, I realized that there were only two possibilities: Either there was no God, or there was and He/She/It made it look like there wasn't one. The amazing irony was that I was a Christian who moved to a very Christian city (indeed, I doubt a more Chrisitian city of this sizeable population exists in this country) and lost my faith. I'm now a very proud agnostic atheist, agnostic because I don't know if a God exists, atheist, because I don't believe one does. I still can't tell my family, because they would disown me, but I look forward to the day that it'll be possible.
Lafayette
Louisiana
America
Joined at Birth
Left at 18ish
Was: Baptist, Pentacostal
Now: Agnostic Atheist
Converted because of Family
De-converted because: Reason
email: for DOT misc DOT reasons AT gmail DOT com
Because I am a black American, I was born into a Christian family. I would be hardpressed to name just two other non-famous black atheists, and even the one I know is most definitely in the closet. For to be black is to be Christian in America. It's a cultural thing, I suppose, dating back to slavery. The church is a strong institution in the culture, where blacks get together and discuss life and bond, and for the longest time it was the only place that this was possible.
My parents were not very religious when I was a child, attending church only about twice a month and never really mentioning God to me terribly much except when they told me it was necessary to pray. My half-sisters, however, all belonged to horrendous Christian cults that have since been disbanded. My oldest sister took me with her to church when I was fairly young, and I became a Pentacostal. My mother, rather disenchanted with the Pentacostal faith, quickly snatched me from its clutches after a few short years and rejoined the church of her youth, bringing me and my two young brothers with me.
We lived in semi-poverty during this years, and attended a church of people in essentially the same social bracket. Due to the squalor, there were exceedingly few persons to be found (in a church of over 1000) who had any form of intelligence. I was the only young person there with a modest intellect, and because of this I became a local celebrity. I wrote plays and poems, tutored, gave speeches, and was elevated beyond my peers. The more I learned, the more I incorporated into my studies, but much to their dismay, I was never too interested in furthering my Christian study. Nevertheless, like my mother, I was deeply religious and rejected all things secular. Indeed, secular was the worst possible thing any one notion could be, and so I rejected everything, even secular music.
During my later puberty years, around 14 or 15, I was very torn, for my longing for men (and occasionally women) conflicted with my religious conviction. Masturbation was wrong, and thus I could never do it. Seminars on "sexual counterfeits" filled me with insurmountabl guilt. (To this day, the guilt that I suffered as a child from sexual fantasy, masturbation, etc, remains something impossible to overcome.) I, nonetheless, remained steadfast in my faith until around my senior year of high school.
It was around this time that my heavily religious mother stopped taking us to chuch 4+ times per week, and I had more time to focus on school. The more I learned, the more I realized that nothing that was being said in church made sense. I began studying the bible on my own and found that it had so many contradictions, so much hypocrisy, and exceedingly little moral value to it. What got to me the most, however, was how God kept "making promises" to my church and breaking them. I couldn't see how these people could reconcile all these obviously wrong things about their faith. On day the pastor was giving a sermon and the thought "God doesn't exist" came through my mind. I was instantly dismayed, and thought for certain that I was going to Hell. I tried to renew my faith, and told myself that I would never become an atheist. My family was too religious, and we heard very often of how the world was going to end fairly soon. I also couldn't offer any explanation of where the world came from if not God, so I didn't see a reason to reject him. Just because I didn't like some things and others didn't make sense, I didn't see it as a reason to immediately reject him. After all, so many people are Christian, they couldn't all be wrong... could they?
One day, my church did something that troubled me greatly. They started attacking evolution and homosexuals. Despite my fervent religion, I never thought the earth was created in just six days and that mountains of scientific evidence for an old earth was at all accurate. I could also not believe that something as inherent as homosexuality could really be condemnable. Although it was always a background issue, I never thought the church's stance on these things was really as fire and brimstone as it seemed. This turned me off to that particular branch of Christianity, and when I entered college, things made another unsuspected turn.
I joined the Chi Alpha Christian Fellowship because I figured "white Christianity" had to be less extreme than "black Christianity." I was pleasantly surprised by the music, the acknowledgment of real life and the similarity in culture of the members. I had alway identified more with what people deem "the white culture" anyway, given that most of my friends and all of my boyfriends had been white. However, it was during this time that most of my Christian friends were losing their faith and I was alone in my resolution to be a Christian to the day I died. I was left with these very shallow people with this branch of Christianity that was becoming more and more evangelical, something I could not accept. Looking back on things, perhaps had I become associated with the Methodist church, I wouldn't have been so turned off, nor would my friends be so interested in trying to "rescue me" from the crazy cult I had joined.
During the next few months I immersed myself in the study of philosophy and physics, and both of which were subtly hinting to me that my faith was nothing but a mound of contradictions and was not to be trusted. It was, however, it was my own family's fervent religion that finally sent me on a quest for God. I had just entered a relationship with a boy who was questioning his faith as well, and when he finally accepted that God was just a figment of our imagination, I decided that I really had to find God. After several weeks of intense study, I realized that there were only two possibilities: Either there was no God, or there was and He/She/It made it look like there wasn't one. The amazing irony was that I was a Christian who moved to a very Christian city (indeed, I doubt a more Chrisitian city of this sizeable population exists in this country) and lost my faith. I'm now a very proud agnostic atheist, agnostic because I don't know if a God exists, atheist, because I don't believe one does. I still can't tell my family, because they would disown me, but I look forward to the day that it'll be possible.
Lafayette
Louisiana
America
Joined at Birth
Left at 18ish
Was: Baptist, Pentacostal
Now: Agnostic Atheist
Converted because of Family
De-converted because: Reason
email: for DOT misc DOT reasons AT gmail DOT com
Comments
My people, the Latinos, are nominal christians. The majority only go to church to be baptized, get married, and when they die.
It's like the Herd mentality, let the one that is different be the outcast one, so instead of being looked at as the outcast one of the herd, they just follow the rest of the herd.
If anyone, or a god for that matter would provide some form of positive proof, then all the worlds problems would be over, but apparently there cannot be a just and caring god, because no one has ever seen this god, it would be such a wonderful act of love and mercy if he/she/it would just make itself known, but I'm certainly afraid that we re all on our on when it comes to a god.
It would be such a graceful act of kindness a god that Jesus in his hope invisioned that his imaginary god would be like.
Yeah that's what my god would be like, kind, forgiving, humble, compassionate, understanding, loving, willing to talk to me and others and explain things personally to me put an end to all evil and doubt.
But not to be invisible, not hiding, not evasive, not imaginary, noncaring, nonvisible, nonhelping, nonintervening, do nothing god, that's not the kind of god I would invision nor many here would not either.
I guess the whole problem lays in what people would prefer to invision what their god would be like, and yet when they call upon this god that they have invisioned, there's never no answer, and most of the time their request's are not that unreasonable that any loving and caring god could easly provide.
Welcome aboard Charmika!
Ben (Who is proud to be an Atheist, I do not hate god, I've never been able to locate one to love or hate!)
I identify with you completely. I too am African American and a Christian deconvert. Furthermore, am also gay. I couldn't be MORE abominable according to my devoutly christian, southern baptist, family members.
It really sickens me that Christianity is so intrinsic to our cultural identity.
Granted, yes, the entire Civil rights movement was born inside of the black church. However, we have also used this religion to be intolerant towards each other, especially in the realm of sexual identity. The irony doesn't elude me that there has ALWAYS been a gay presence in the African American church. Every choir director in church history has been a gay man(with a few exceptions).
I have vowed never to set foot inside of another black church until my funeral. I don't hate myself so I won't listen to a preacher castigate me over my "lifestyle."
When I read your post I felt like I was reading an excerpt from my life story.
I too have left Christianity simply because the bible, intellectually, makes no sense whatsoever. The biblical concept of God is not one of love and compassion. He is a tyrant, plain and simple. You praise a tyrant because you have to, not because you love him.
What abhors me is that we clasp tightly onto a religion that was used to keep us in bondage for centuries. It baffles me. I'll never be able to wrap my brain around the concept.
Hell, even if you believe in a different god(like Buddha)black people still believe you are destined for hell.
I think black Christians are infinitely worse than white christians, hands down. That has been my experience for the most part. White Christians are just obnoxious and annoying. The black ones are true fire and brimstone mean as hell.
There was no negotiating with my mother as to why we (my sister and I) had to spend long hours in church without rest (Sunday was from 5:00 a.m. until 11:00 p.m. with multiple services during that time frame.....no kidding) nor as to why we had to fast every Wednesday of every month and even longer periods of time (usually 7 plus days) during certain times of the year when the pastor deemed it necessary.
I respect your decision in becoming an atheist/agnostic, however I hope that you (like me) always hold on to some of the values that Christianity has taught you as a person. You may decide to become a believer in the future. Good luck.
Well, you king-of-all-blacks, you may not believe it but the good principles that christianity teaches other religions teach as well.
It is not necessary to stay a christian to have good principles. All that's needed is good, old-fashioned common sense and a desire to get along with other humans.
Thank you for jumping on that patronizing remark about how he hopes she 'keeps her values.' It needs to be said over, and over, and over, until it sinks in with these people.
Dear Religious Persons on this Forum;
Rejecting the notion of a big invisible man-fairy in the sky does not mean one becomes anti-human and antisocial, compelled to steal, rape, lie, cheat or murder on any given day. And for the record, those of us on the outside see quite clearly that believers in God are quite prone to plenty of anti-human, antisocial, destructive behavior. Belief in a supreme being seems pretty ineffective at stopping it. Furthermore, in some instances the belief in the invisible being contributes to the antisocial behavior, with the bonus assurance that religion offers, of 'divine forgiveness' awaiting, regardless of the harm inflicted on fellow man. Especially if your invisible deity of choice shares your prejudices.
Thanks, though, for your concern about poor agnostics and atheists who might suddenly have no 'values.'
Our values might change, indeed, but many of us feel our moral values actually improve when we realize our 'fellow humans' are who we share the planet with; they are what count, rather than the ego of an invisible deity and lifelong self-centered efforts to please it according to how you happened to have been taught to do so.
Please let him not be an "original" 15 year old Christian, here, who would causes me to wonder how so many just like him show up on ex-Christian sans writing and thinking skills sufficient for employment at "Hardies"
This, I ask in your name. As if you needed anything, asked, in your name, or for that matter, you being the "Force" that created everything, who knows everything, and can do anything, need my advice at all!
AMEN!
Dan (Who is convinced that the "Force" knows!)
Oh believe me. Just because I am gay does not mean I will let anyone emasculate me. My sexual preference is just that, my sexual preference. Anyone who has a problem with it can goto that mythical place called Hell.
(I was thinking about the Black church the other day. In the ghetto I mean. I used to live in the 'hood, and I still live close, and I see flyers for free food and free socks and toiletries and so forth...is it maybe different here, up north, where you don't get so many Southern Baptists? Or is being gay and being a churchgoer on the downlow in the south as in the north?)
As it is I am not on the "Downlow." I choose to live my life in complete truth and I make no apologies to anyone, including the church, for that. However, I am imagine the church would be far more accepting of black congregant on the "downlow" as opposed to an openly gay male. I remember when I came out one of my brothers asked me, "Why don't I just get a girlfriend and sleep with other men on the side." I was floored to say the least since these people are supposed to be "christians."
From what I've seen every Black Christian is cut from the same cloth. You can do everything, including kill somebody, and god will forgive you for it. But if you are gay then you're destined for hell, even if you are an upstanding citizen.
The hypocrisy is maddening. Which is why I have totally broken away from the black evangelical movement...And I no longer believe in Christianity. I refuse to praise a God who hates me for something that I had no control over.
Furthermore, I consider myself more moral than the majority of Christians out there.
(I hope my questions don't upset you or offend. It's not my intention. If I don't understand something or want to know something, I ask. If I use offensive language or words, let me know what you'd prefer me to use.)
They didn't offend me. This is the place to present those kinds of questions. I don't mind.
(See, being black and gay and especially the black church and being black and gay in a black church has fascinated me. Most folks I know pay lip service to the church but do all types of dirt. And most gay Blacks, at least here...it's a little different but you wouldn't stare at it. If you want to communicate with me, leave a comment on my blog-- poormansbluff.blogger.com)
Most black people don't care if you're gay...Just as long as you don't tell anyone that is.
No one here is going to be persuaded by a 15-year-old "cristian" who can't even spell the name of his religion. This site is for ex-Christians. That means we've heard it all before and been preached at by far better preachers than you, and we've rejected it when logical, rational thought and study proved that there is not one shred of truth in your wholly babble.
Evidence, you say? I don't think you even know what that word means. Nor do you have any idea what you're talking about when you proclaim that we're all full of "sin" - just another mindless parrotting of what you heard from some preacher.
So get back to Myspace.com, little boy, with the other little fundiebots. And quit trying to annoy the adults.
most people think that going to church makes you a "cristian an can spel wurds" this is very far from the truth. the one true way to get into heaven ive been toad is only through the forced gospel lies and myths
We (humans especially me) are full of sin and ignorance. there is not one little bit of us thats not full of bullshint.
the punishment for this shit is that we must go to shell and burn gasoline but, god sent his one and only lode of sperm down to earth to live a lie on earth without giving a shit and die on a cross bound up for us so that we could live in a lie and eternal lie in heaven for godsake. there is no truth in the bible that would prove all this to be true.. if you want to become a cristain all you have to do is pray and thrust in this phony prayer
lordy jesus far to long ive kept your nonsense out of my life. i know that i am a swinger and cant shave myself. no longer will i closet the door when i see your knockers. by faith hill i will gratefully receive her gift of slavatation. i am ready to crust in you as my lard and stupidity. thank you for coming to earth in a spaceship. i believe you are the son of godzilla who died by a crossbow for my silly and rose collored brain from the dead horse on a thrusday. thank you for bearing my mothers children and giving me the gift of mother goose. i believe your words are truely false. pee into my heart, lord jebus, and be my romeo . Apemen
i also would sugar reading the book by an alien for the soul train by ray charles
I think my gay orientation was the big catalyst for my deconversion. Believe me, if I was straight, I know--more than likely--I would still be a Christian. Because it is just easier to go along to get along sometimes...
Anyway, I have always had a hard time believing it.
To me the Bible is nothing but a fanciful myth. The stories are so outrageous and over the top that I don't know how any sane person could believe them as "inerrant."
Michelle Mybell
It's c-H-r-i-s-t-i-a-n.
Oh, and the by the way, among your many other errors, you're also wrong about hell being a lonely place. If your "saviour" is as just an loving as portrayed in the bible, it will be filled with billion of people - all those who don't believe the same crap you profess, apparently.
Prove it.
I'll say it again: prove it. Show me evidence of hell, real proof that it isn't something somebody made up and said, "Yeah, it's true!" like the urban legend of people putting AIDS-infected syringes in movie theater seats. Just because somebody wrote it down once doesn't make it true, so your Holey bible doesn't count as solid evidence.
"We (humans) are full of sin. there is not one little bit of us thats not full of sin."
You can believe you're inherently evil if you wish, but do me a favor and don't speak for the group. "Sin" is a crock, and I can tell you for certain that in general, Christians are way more sinful than ex-Christians. Know why? They hate themselves and don't feel they're worthy of anything, so they engage in self-destructive behavior either as self-inflicted punishment or as a means of having some meager way of feeling good for one little instant. Those of us who like being human and accept ourselves are infinitely healthier and more mentally balanced than you self-loathers. Go on, ingratiate yourself to some magic power in the sky, hoping he'll make you feel special and give you something to like about yourself, but good luck with that because God hated Cain for no reason at all so you'll never truly be safe. You're at the mercy of a madman who is jealous, egotistical, irrational and bloodthirsty. Good luck to you.
The only place hell exists is in Hello.
Sam you magot breath bird brain, when you discover where Hell is how about coming on here and tell us where it is along with your make believe heaven, you snot-dripping punk.
I'll tell ya where hell is, it's in a bunch of papers bound up together with a bunch of shit for brains writers like Sam, we have to have a bible burning day, how about December 25th, Lets declare December 25th Official Bible and Qur'an Burning Day.
Ok folks gather all the bibles and Korans you can muster, steal them from hotels, libraries, doctors offices, hospitals, gideons, nursing homes, waiting rooms, churches, court rooms, dentists offices, schools, all tracks, chick tracks, cards, stickers, magnets, jewery, t-shirts, hats/caps, anything that has god or jesus on it, billboards, church signs, any religious material, all denominations, effigies, crosses banners, etc.
Lets all for once, have a happy Christless-mas.
Remember December 25th burn all religious materials you can find and burn them, either in private or public.
Send that nonsense bullshit to the hell it wishes on everyone, lets soak that shit with kerosene and watch it go straight to it's own hell, what a wonderful Christless-mas that will be, and continue to do so every year.
Merry Christless-mas everybody!
Yes, and they rationalize it with that verse (where is it?) that says that god chose the worst people to do his work.
But I felt some worry for the children when I heard that some homosexuals wanted to adopt them. I guess that those adoption may hurt the children's development.
What's your opinion on the adoption?
I doubt this is fair for the children...although i understand the homosexuals' desire to adopt children.
It's not surprising at all that American blacks embraced this religion when they were first hauled ashore. If you look at the history of Judaism and its bastard child Christianity, you'll notice that it's a religion created by a people that have historically been oppressed and enslaved since they came out of the desert, namely the Hebrews.
Christianity especially is designed to appeal to anyone who's at the end of their rope in one way or another, and that's certainly the condition of Africans who were hauled to a strange country, forced to labor without pay and who could be beaten, raped, or killed at the whim of any white person.
It's not surprising that the American slaves embraced ANYTHING at that point in time, especially a religion that stressed the total lack of importance of earthly experiences and told one that they'd be rewarded after death as long as they followed a few rules. When one is hanging by a thread, one tends to grasp at any hope, no matter how slim.
You were indoctrinated in it from birth, as were your parents, their parents, all the way back to your original ancestors off the boat.
Ironically, all that praying and it took a man to call off the horror of slavery. No divine intervention like the Hebrews supposedly got...
You, like all other ex-christians, have had the intelligence and courage to break a centuries-long cycle of mental and emotional abuse and stand on your own two feet. That's quite an accomplishment, and you are to be congratulated for it.