My story...
sent in by Mike
Cross post from "Breaking the Bad News.."
I wish I'd run across this site about 4 months ago!
My parents were involved in the Methodist church when I was young. I went through the confirmation thing and all, but to me it was just words and I never really bought into it. After I was about 13 - 14 we just stopped going to church. Nothing was said, just stopped. I think my parents became agnostic/athiest at that time, though they just recently made if very clear.
I'm much older (42) and married to a YEC, BAC. My wife was a Baptist when we met and I, being blindly in lust and love, did the whole baptism, decleration of faith. I really wanted to believe....
However, since that time (about 17 years ago). I "drifted" too and from trying to be "religious". I had many objections and was never comfortable with religion. Something just seemed "wrong".... My wife, on the other hand, went the other direction and is full force fundy everything is evil, end is near, gotta save all the souls kinda B.S.
Then, about 6 months ago I stumbled across the Flying Spaghetti Monster site. I laughed my arse off, and my eyes started to open.
I attend a fundy charismatic church with my wife and kids here in Austin. One day, during the "alter call", this lady comes over, crying and the whole bit, and says "Mike, don't you want what they have??". Meaning the folks with the arms in the air and swaying and chanting. Inside the answer was instant. "NO!, you'll are nuts!". However, I politely dodged the question and gave vague answers. My wife is sitting next to me and said something about "God was telling to ask you the same thing..."
At that point I made a decision. I would do my "due diligence" and let the facts speack for themselves. Lets just say the house of cards came tumbling down. I quit pretending to like church, or to pray. I told my wife in using "Rip the BandAid" method, she took it OK. Then I came home with some books from Michael Shermer, Carl Sagan and few others. That's when poop hit the fan. She wouldn't speak to me for about a day. I actually thought we were headed for rapid divorce. I did almost tell her the two main reasons for my decision was looking at her beliefs now vs. when we met and the current church we attend. I think I did the right thing by erring to caution.
Things have calmed down now, but it's a very sore subject and I know I'm on everybody's prayer list
I don't know how I would break the news differently, there isn't a good way.
Being "out" wow... I feel better now than I have in years!
The problem is all of our (read "her") friends are die hard fundy's. Blaahhh
Sorry to unload on you guys in my first post, but to be honest, I got no one to talk about this....
Thanks for reading...
Cross post from "Breaking the Bad News.."
I wish I'd run across this site about 4 months ago!
My parents were involved in the Methodist church when I was young. I went through the confirmation thing and all, but to me it was just words and I never really bought into it. After I was about 13 - 14 we just stopped going to church. Nothing was said, just stopped. I think my parents became agnostic/athiest at that time, though they just recently made if very clear.
I'm much older (42) and married to a YEC, BAC. My wife was a Baptist when we met and I, being blindly in lust and love, did the whole baptism, decleration of faith. I really wanted to believe....
However, since that time (about 17 years ago). I "drifted" too and from trying to be "religious". I had many objections and was never comfortable with religion. Something just seemed "wrong".... My wife, on the other hand, went the other direction and is full force fundy everything is evil, end is near, gotta save all the souls kinda B.S.
Then, about 6 months ago I stumbled across the Flying Spaghetti Monster site. I laughed my arse off, and my eyes started to open.
I attend a fundy charismatic church with my wife and kids here in Austin. One day, during the "alter call", this lady comes over, crying and the whole bit, and says "Mike, don't you want what they have??". Meaning the folks with the arms in the air and swaying and chanting. Inside the answer was instant. "NO!, you'll are nuts!". However, I politely dodged the question and gave vague answers. My wife is sitting next to me and said something about "God was telling to ask you the same thing..."
At that point I made a decision. I would do my "due diligence" and let the facts speack for themselves. Lets just say the house of cards came tumbling down. I quit pretending to like church, or to pray. I told my wife in using "Rip the BandAid" method, she took it OK. Then I came home with some books from Michael Shermer, Carl Sagan and few others. That's when poop hit the fan. She wouldn't speak to me for about a day. I actually thought we were headed for rapid divorce. I did almost tell her the two main reasons for my decision was looking at her beliefs now vs. when we met and the current church we attend. I think I did the right thing by erring to caution.
Things have calmed down now, but it's a very sore subject and I know I'm on everybody's prayer list
I don't know how I would break the news differently, there isn't a good way.
Being "out" wow... I feel better now than I have in years!
The problem is all of our (read "her") friends are die hard fundy's. Blaahhh
Sorry to unload on you guys in my first post, but to be honest, I got no one to talk about this....
Thanks for reading...
Comments
It's great you have found out the truth. Hopefully your wife can accept your decision without fighting over it. My only advice is for you to keep it cool on the home front.(if you want to save your marriage)
I was seeing a girl for two years when I saw the the light. I tried to show her the truth and she couldn't accept it. All we did was fight about it all the time (my fault). Your free and that is all that matters right now. She may never be, some people can't live without this magical hope.
If it's any help, here's a website I ran across - some writings by a man who quit being a Christian on how he dealt with family and friends.
http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~slocks/buckner/no.html
All the best!
I commend your courage and honesty.
Those are two things this world needs more of right now.
Independent thought and honest inquiry is the enemy of most faith's and the churches will do everything they can to keep their blind sheep from leaving the flock.
It is not easy to stand before a condemning crowd while being naked of their faith. (metaphor there) It is especially tough when it involves a personal relationship with a member of that "crowd" that is staring back at you.
It can make you feel vulnerable to their misguided accusations, but more importantly, it also gives you the opportunity to grow beyond their myths and misery.
Be strong and be true to yourself. You have been navigating the waters of life all on your own for your entire life. Trust your own instincts and intuitions; your life will be better off for it.
You have my support and if you ever need to talk to someone, just give me a holler. I really do wish that honesty and love rules in the end so that it all works out for everyone in your family. I look forward to hearing more from you, so please keep us updated on how it is going.
Welcome to the oasis of reason!
Take care,
It's a wonderful thing, when you can watch people spouting the Christian (Or any religious), bullshit, and know that you are free from it. You are no different now, except that now you will learn to love your new found ability to think rationally. You will no longer need regular doses of schizophrenic reinforcement from imaginary beings, dead rabbis, and saints.
You will gradually replace the time that you previously spent talking to imaginary people, with rational constructive thought. You will have grown up!
Don't worry though Mike, you will be in good company. Since the advent of the age of enlightenment, most of the greatest thinkers have come to the same conclusions that we have.
Dan
There are all kinds of books and sites dealing with the....
"The Myth Of Christianity"
Halfprice books has a whole section,.."The Jesus Mysteries" is a good one"(by Tim Freke & Peter Gandy).
"Then I came home with some books from Michael Shermer, Carl Sagan and few others"
That's where you lost me. Why did you need the books? I thought you already disbelieved. In fact, from what I read, you never had a shred of faith to begin with. As a child with your parents, and later as a self-confessed lustlorn suitor of your eventual wife's affections. So why the need to discount the Christian faith when you never 'bought' into any of to begin with?
Maybe there's some truth in the claim that man needs someone or something to worship: since for you, it wasn't going to be God, I guess it became Sagan, Schwimmer and the others. Welcome aboard.
"Then I came home with some books from Michael Shermer, Carl Sagan and few others"
That's where you lost me. Why did you need the books? I thought you already disbelieved. In fact, from what I read, you never had a shred of faith to begin with. As a child with your parents, and later as a self-confessed lustlorn suitor of your eventual wife's affections. So why the need to discount the Christian faith when you never 'bought' into any of to begin with?
Maybe there's some truth in the claim that man needs someone or something to worship: since for you, it wasn't going to be God, I guess it became Sagan, Schwimmer and the others. Welcome aboard."
Nice troll, but I'll bite anyway. BTW... it's Shermer, not Schwimmer. You lose credibility resorting to sarcasm and degradation. If you can't attack the data, ridicule the source. I will assume your a christian, based on the context of your post
Yes, I never went as far as to be classified a "fundamentalist". But I used to pray seriously early on and studied the bible and tried to take it seriously. But it never truly stuck. I just couldn't, with a clear conscience, believe the bible is inerrant etc. It just isn't true. The top four things that steered me away from christianity, in no particular order.
Watching the changes in my wife over the last 5 years as she became more "fundamental".
The church we attend.
Reading the bible.
Talking to christians.
I bought the books because I needed something help me clarify what I was feeling. I wanted to contrast secular to theistic. I also read several christian creationist books. I found them to be false (I'm sorry, I'm truly drawing a blank on the names). One was by some "investigative reporter athiest turned christian". I went to the quoted sources and and did my own research and getting the full context of some of the claims made in several christian book. I'm sorry, but the christian authors lied, plain and simple, lied. That ended what little shred christian belief I had...
I have always been a fan of Sagan and James Randi. I've heard your sarcastic christian comments from a lot folks. If you don't worship god, you must worship "XXXX" fill in the blank. To that I say B.S. I don't worship anything. I don't blindly follow secular science, I question a lot conclusions. I look at the sources and attemp to use critical thinking and my talents and knowledge to discern what I beleive to be true. Sometimes I rely on trusted sources to help draw my conclusion. I "respect" Michael Shermer, Carl Sagan, Stephen Hawking, James Randi and others. I do not think these guys are inerrant, I trust them to present a more honest oppinion. When in doubt, I look at the data where ever possible. To be honest, very few christians do this, they blindly follow what the pastor du-jour spins out in the weekly sermon.
Sorry, I find your coment to cheap and typical of christian B.S. Try harder, lets debate the data, not name calling.
You can email me at mmeyer@austin.rr.com. I have no need to remain anonymous, anonymous.
Good luck buddy, see on here often I hope.
Onanite
It may seem strange that I never stopped to think that sites like this existed, but I am pleased to find that they do. My immediate family (mum, dad, sister) are the black sheep of my extended family (grandparents, aunts, uncles) becasue although we observe christian holidays (christmas, easter), we do not go to church,and we consider ourselves agnostic humanists. Sometimes I get so tired of those people who don't understand how we can have a moral compass that is not mandated by a church. I can be ( and am) a good person with strong morals without the fear of god or church. Why is this so hard for some to understand? I have some great christian friends, though, who have really taken the time to understand my beliefs and respect them as I do theirs.
Keep on discussing these issues- you're doing great!
Here's the link: Salon.Com
Well, if your god is actually dead, then it isn't in any position to do much of anything.
"You've rejected His sacrifice for you, so wouldn't it be fair then for you to be judged by your deeds? Most likely, he'd use the 10 commandments, amongst other things. Have you ever lusted, or lied, or disobeyed your parents, or stolen anything?"
(scratches head) You seem to be of the opinion that the actions of a mortal can somehow injure an omnipotent being. "Sin" does not compute.
http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~slocks/buckner/no.html
What a dynamite site that is. I visited it just to get the gist of it, and was 2-1/2 hours at it before returning here. The guy out-classed his correspondents in every way; he didn't have to expose them. He exposed the belief system, and then they exposed their shallowness and (lack of) character all by themselves. Thanks for the URL.
If you have noone to answer to, and nowhere to go when you die....what exactly are you "free" from? If there's no punishment for believing in "God", then what have you been freed from?
It takes more faith to be an "atheist" than it does a Christian.
And, if you all really knew what you were talking about you probably wouldnt be so verbal with the word "atheist"....youre agnostic, because you dont know everything and cant disprove the existence of God absolutely. God isnt dead, he passed from death to LIFE and brought life and immortality to light through the gospel. If there's one chance in a million that that is true than you should probably make it a matter of earnest prayer.
Well, there is the freedom from actually giving a person that believes in a "God" immediate credibility for what they say; because they say they hold a platinum God credit card.
Anony-mouse: No professing former Christian on this board has ever really been a Christian if they were willing to give up their relationship with God just because the road got a little bumpy.
You are missing the point. And if you'd take the time to read some of the testimonies here, you'd see that no one here is claiming that they gave up "their relationship" with "God". However, you will see that there are many here, myself included, who claim to have believed that they were "in a relationship" with "God", yet, we now know that we were DELUSIONAL, the same way that YOU are delsuional.
Here's why: To "know" that you have a "relationship" with some "thing", you'd have to "KNOW" that said "thing" exists. Common sense. Well, no one, including you, "KNOWS" that a "God" exists. There is not one shred of objective empirical evidence for the existance of any "God", thus, we/you must take it on "Faith" if we choose to believe.
*Now, I beg of you---please don't retort with "well, well yeah....but, but, you can't prove that God doesn't exist!"
***No, we cannot---just like you cannot "prove" that Poseiden does NOT exist. SO? Does Poseiden, then, "exist"?...because no one can prove He doesn't exist? Exactly. See?..now you're actually learning something. This thing called "the burden of proof". The onus of proof is in the lap of the one MAKING the positive fantastic claim. That'd be you.
Anony-mouse: It takes more faith to be an "atheist" than it does a Christian.
"Faith". Um, if you "KNOW" that a "God" exists, then 1) you've just rendered your "Faith" pointless/useless, and 2) please submit your objective empircal evidence for your "God" at this time. Waiting.
Continuing---Annoynomous, it doesn't take "Faith" to lack belief in something..m'kay? Using the "Poseiden" example again, I'll take that you're a reasonable adult(with the exception of believing in "Christ") and that you don't believe that Poseiden currently sits in the ocean with his trusty trident. Right? Okay....so, does it require "Faith" to nOT believe such a thing? Do you have to make weekly affirmations such as, "Poseiden does not exist..he does not! he does not! he does not exist!.... PRAISE the non-existance of Poseiden!"
Sounds silly, right? Yes, in fact, retarded, and thus, it doesn't require "Faith" to LACK belief in something. Stick it in your memory bank.
Anony-non continued: And, if you all really knew what you were talking about you probably wouldnt be so verbal with the word "atheist"....youre agnostic, because you dont know everything and cant disprove the existence of God absolutely.
Agnosticism for beginners:
Annoynomous, yes, "agnosticism" is about knowledge. And yes, no one "KNOWS", absolutely, if a "God" exists, or does not exist. I've already covered this in the above statements.
However, "Atheism" is not about knowledge, but about "belief". It is perfectly possible, by definition, to be an "Agnostic Atheist"--to NOT "know" if God exists, but to LACK belief that one does. You've simply made a false statement in an attempt to do what? Riiiiight.....to shift the burden of proof. See here*** above.
Annoynomous: God isnt dead, he passed from death to LIFE and brought life and immortality to light through the gospel.
...::yawn::
How do you "KNOW" this? Evidence please. If the Holy Bible is "evidence" for Yahweh/Jesus/Holy Spook, then the Q'ran is evidence for "Allah".
If there's one chance in a million that that is true than you should probably make it a matter of earnest prayer.
So we should believe "just in case". What a stupid reason to believe something. Okay, then you "should probably" get down to your local library and figure out which religion has the hottest "hell", and then convert to that religion since there's a "chance in a million" that it's true. Don't dawdle! SCOOT!
Do you, poster-without-a-name (and who, for some reason, does not wish to use the "Other" button), do YOU pray to Krishna or Mithra on the chance that they may be real? In any case, what advice would you give to a person who is trying to determine which, if any, of the purported gods is the real one? Would it be advisable to earnestly pray to each, or perhaps make offerings, and see which, if any, responds? If not, what would you suggest?
"...If you have noone to answer to, and nowhere to go when you die....what exactly are you "free" from?..."
Um, free from feeling like there's someone to answer to, and free from feeling like there's somewhere to go after dying. It's its own reward. Must be a virtue...
"...If there's no punishment for believing in "God", then what have you been freed from?..."
I don't know if "punishment" is the word, but labouring under the gratuitous burden of packing around the energy-and-intelligence-sapping god concept/tumor is sort of its own consequence. An instant karma.
Old song:
"Last night I met upon the stair
A little man who wasn't there.
He wasn't there again today;
Oh how I wish he'd go away."