Losing my religion

sent in by Todd

This is my first time ever writing into a forum of this nature. Believe me, I never thought-just a few years ago-that I would ever question the faith that I have, essentially, been weened on.

I'm in my mid 20's and for the first time I am, openly, challenging and becoming disillusioned with my religious beliefs.

Grant it, I still believe in an omniscient supreme being. For personal reasons having faith does help me. However, I am not sure that I believe in the judeo Christian god anymore.

The more I read, study, rationalize, and reason the more the religion of my youth(and ignorance)is slipping through my fingers.

I guess a little bit about myself is in order.

I grew was born and raised in Houston, Texas. As far back as I can remember I was in the Baptist church, every single Sunday. When I was a small child I used to think the gray haired minister shouting down from the pulpit was god.

Anyway, as a child it just seemed the natural thing to do. Everyone was in church and involved in some way shape or form. It was definitely a good place for me to take a nap as a small child. Other than that I really had no interest. It was just the thing to do(even my alcoholic father went to church)...

My mother is a very spiritual woman(something I respect about her, immensely), and she never shoved religion and church down my throat. Infact, she gave me the choice of whether or not I wanted to attend church. However, the church was still very much apart of my life where I was raised up.

When I got to my teens I went through the obligatory teen angst B.S. and etc. I was really depressed back then. Part of it had to do with the fact that I'm gay. Back then I tried my best to repress my sexual feelings and deny that I even had them. Growing up I was taught that it was wrong and an abomination before god.

My older brother even told me that he would be the first person to put a rifle to my head if I ever became a homosexual. So, needless to say, gay people are frowned upon by the good "christians' where I'm from...

Anyway, my depression deepened and culminated into a suicide attempt. Fortunately, It did not happen...

I started looking for a way, any way, that would stop me from being depressed. I had just graduated highschool(which was a living hell), and looking for somewhere to fit in.

Soon, my mother started intervening with the bible and telling me that I should accept Jesus into my life. I was offended by that. I was so indoctorinated with religion that I thought I was a bad person for not being "saved" already. infact, kids in church got baptized regularly just so their parents would be happy(and so they could play in the water)...

Anyway, I started reading the bible and I really believed everything it said. I also believed that if I prayed hard enough my homosexuality would cease and desist.

Ironically, the next few days we had a family get together and my brother asked me whether or not I was "ready when the trumpet blows..."

I said, "Why? I think I am a good person. I will goto heaven..." I mean why would I goto hell? At that point it felt like I was in a living hell...

Then he said, "It has nothing to do with how good you are! If you don't accept Jesus you will die and goto hell..." And he said it with this look of satisfaction and glee...

Anyway, I got scared. I started reading the bible and praying more and more. I was on a spiritual binge. That very Sunday I decided that I would get saved so I could goto heaven.

I made an announcement to the church that I believed(and I truly did), and at that point I was "saved." I often wonder if I was a deaf mute would I still be saved, seeing as I would not have been able to confess my belief with my mouth?

Well, after I was confirmed and joined church I felt this new sense of happiness. I always attributed it to the Holy Spirit coming into me...But now I wonder whether or not it was because I finally found somewhere that I felt I belong?

As time went on I was heavily active in church. I joined ministries, and even an adult bible class. I felt really proud of myself because I was 19-years-old and enrolled in a course full of people over 30.

By this point I was in that, "New overly evangelical phase." The one where you are so high on the love of Christ that you feel the need to share it with everyone? I cringe when I think of that period in hindsight. I was, literally, one of those people testifying to people and telling them to accept Jesus or there would be no going to heaven. Even my mother was telling me I was a bit over the top...

I didn't care. Plus, church allowed me to not focus so much on my homosexuality(even though it was still an issue).

Anyway, approximately two years later my whole Christian idealism came tumbling down. To make a long story short, my pastor, it turns out, was having an affair with my then 13-year-old niece. My older brother set up a video camera and caught them, in the act, in my brother's(not the brother who told me I was going to hell...My oldest one) house. Needless to say there was this huge controversy that tore the church apart. My Ex-Pastor is now a registered sex offender...But that doesn't matter. He has a new church with lots of members from the old one. Apparently child molestation doesn't matter to some folks...

Furthermore, around that time, I was being mentored by a co-pastor. I really and truly respected this man. He was like a surrogate father to me. I wanted to be like him...But when the controversy happened he abandoned me when I needed him the most. I haven't seen him since, but I don't really care to...

After all of that I felt lost, like I had nowhere to go. So automatically I ran to the first church that one of my christian college friends told me about. I got into the groove again, so to speak.

Well, by this time I was really starting to get BORED out of my mind with church. At first I thought it was satan trying to steer me towards the path of unrighteousness...I tried praying about it and getting past that entire doubt stage. I couldn't help it. I did not care for the pastor nor the congregation. Everyone was so stuck up and putting on heirs...It was pathetic.

And it was one Sunday where the pastor stood up before the congregation and told us to shun a church member. Apparently the woman left her husband(who--I soon found out--was beating the hell out of her and cheating on her), kids in tow and refused to reconcile with him. The Pastor said that if the husband wants to reconcile then the wife is a sinner for turning her back on him. He went onto say that if we see her we should not talk to her OR even acknowledge her existence. My mouth fell open and hit the floor. There was no way in hell I was going to do that.

That was the last time I darkened that door step, nearly two years ago...

Now, this past year(after the infamous presidential election)I have been really having doubts and ambivalence towards my beliefs.

My entire life I was taught that the bible was the true and literal word of god. I wasn't supposed to question anything, just believe everything. That has been my entire life.

However, after finally acknowledging and embracing my homosexuality I have had to face the fact that my religion does not accept me as I believe that the creator made me...

Who is to say that the god of the bible is the right god? There are religions all over the world. So are they all going to hell just because they are not into Christianity?

If god hates my sexuality so much then WHY am I like this?

I tried prayer, supression, repression, and EX-GAY conversion therapy which didn't work. This is a natural part of what I am...

Furthermore, all of the contradictions in the bible have been rubbing me the wrong way completely.

If God is so perfect and infallible then why couldn't he give us ONE religion and ONE clear cut path to the stair way to heaven?

The bible is like reading a great piece of literature that got sent through a paper shredder. True, it is a good read but so much does not make sense. It doesn't compute...

Furthermore, I often wonder whether or not self acceptance and self love helped me with my issues of self esteem. For the first time in my life I feel like a complete and whole person, just being who I am...Why would that be a sin?

Why should I have to struggle to hold back something that is inside me?

Well, like I said, I still believe in A god...But I am wondering if I am completely disinterested in organized religion...

The arrogance of believing that ONLY people of a certain faith and lifestyle are going to heaven sickens me.

Also they are using christian love as a means to keep gay people from having all the same civil liberties. I am a young black American, and I remember not too long ago when my people were held back because "It was ordained by god and the bible."

The bible was written by men. I could just as easily write my own scriptures and make them a bible...

And if heaven is this amusement park of a place then why do we as human beings leave it and come to Earth? Don't get me wrong I believe in an Afterlife, BUT, I don't see anything wrong with having a beautiful life on Earth either...

Well, I am at the point where I feel myself pulling away...But I am so afraid of going to hell. I know it sounds derranged, but my religious upbringing is so much apart of me that I feel two parts of myself battling each other. I guess I am having a hard time no longer being in my comfort zone. It is almost like I've been blind for a long time and now I see differently...

Why would a just and loving god punish me for who I am?

Sorry for being so longwinded, but this is what I have been going through.


Texas
USA
I'm still in the process of figuring out if I am truly deconverting
Was: Southern Baptist and non denominational
Now: Spiritual but not religious...
Converted because: Because my brother told me I would miss the rapture and burn in hell.
De-converted because: Too many contradictions and unanswered questions in the bible.

67 comments:

Anonymous said...

I certainly understand what you are going through...I'm gay also...even though my parents and friends greatly except me for who I'm ...i hear all the time that we are going to hell...we are bad people...you can change throug EX-GAY ministry and Jesus..I even went to church one night I felt that I had to go...so it happened to be a guest speaker who was gay 20 years ago as is saved and no loner gay. My heart stop and I felt I was going to die...Im going to hell...for a while I started thinking and getting depressed, than I started to o research on religion, how religion started, the differences between them...it was very interesting stuff...a lot of similarities. It can get you so all confusing and crazy. I realized that did that guy change really deep down or did he feel he had to change because of presure and not fitting in, he said that he was going to have a sex chancge and God told him no..that when it all started. All I know how I feel and that this is who I'm. I always had this saying...YOU CAN CHANGE YOUR HAIR TO ANY COLOR YOU WANT... BUT YOUR TRUE ROOTS WILL ALWAYS COME OUT. Like you I do believe in God, but I also believe that for thousands of years man used religion for power and wealth. We are all one. No matter what anyone says.

God Bless. Brian

Bill said...

Until someone comes back with first hand knowledge of a hell, I would not worry to much about it.

The concept of hell sprang out of the bible, made up to make someone listen to the foolishness of their religion, and to get people to goose step to church with their wallets.

You will never hear a preacher say, be sure to leave your wallets and money at home, you will never hear this. I wonder why?

In fact they always pass the collection plate before the preacher starts to preach, he/she damn well see's to it that they get paid up front. Their fee.

It appears that it is more important that the money gets into the preachers hands before the souls get saved, it's all bullshit.

There is no soul, god, jesus heaven, hell, angels, miracles, spirits, ghosts...period.

Lorena said...

Hi,

It looks like you are on your way to 100% englightment. I can assure you that all of us ex-christians have been exactly where you are today.

It seems scary right now, but soon you will feel freedom beyond meassure. Mark my words.

I also believe that there is some sort of spirtual force out there, but it is nothing like bible-god. I came to realize that the bible contains what the people back them believed god was like, not who he/she/them really is/are.

Now you have the choice to believe that god exists or god doesn't. If god is so cool, do you think he will be offended because you don't acknowledge him? Would yo send ME to hell for eternity because I don't believe in YOU? If god is love, why would he do something so horrendous?

A summary of the things that bothered me enough to walk away, you may find them useful:

- Like gays, there are things about me I can't change and the church people want me to.

- The slavery of Africans in the U.S. having been said to be biblically based.

- If there is a heaven and I end up there because I believe in Jesus, I would rather be in hell that in heaven with most of the christians I know.

I have posted many other reasons in my blog. You may find my rumblings useful: http://exfundamentalist.blogspot.com/

I wish I could hug you, but I will just say good luck.

Lorena

Anonymous said...

Welcome, Todd, you have come to the right place. We're all in the process of figuring out what we believe or don't believe.

While I'm not gay, I have nothing against gays and I have seen, from those I have known, that being gay is not a choice but is how you are born.

The gay issue was one of the final tipping points to my leaving Xtianity. I was in the Episcopal church and when a gay bishop was ordained, I was happy. Then I realized others were not because of what the Buybull says about homosexuality. Although I had a myriad of reasons for leaving Xtianity, that was the final one, as I realized I didn't believe what the scriptures said any more.

Stick around, Todd, you are among friends here.

Evelyn

GodBoy666 said...

Todd,

I highly recommend the book "Losing Faith in Faith" by Dan Barker. I think you will find it helps you a lot. It is written by a born again evangelical preacher and his eventual escape to atheism.

Good luck with your journey!

Anonymous said...

I just have book recommendations. Just read lots of books on science and history. Christianity's and religion's true nature will become apparent.

Google these, or look up on amazon... they are interesting in and of themselves, not just relevant to your situation.

"The Bible Unearthed."

"Losing Faith in Faith" by Dan Barker

"What makes you tick, the brain in plain english" by Czerzner

"Climbing Mount Improbable" by Dawkins

"Phantoms in the Brain" by V. S. Ramachandran

Good luck to you.

-- steve (also stuck in Houston aka hell. They do have good restaurants here, but other than that -- sucks.)

freedy said...

Wow! Great x-imony,...Welcome and be of good courage,.. for you have
found a sanctuary.
Why would a "loving" god
"afflict" you, and then condemn you
to "everlasting torment"for something you cannot change?
P.s., I grew up in Houston,...
Montrose area.I attended 1'st baptist mega church off of I-10.

Optimist said...

Todd, congratulations on breaking away. Unfortunately, to overcome your fear of hell, you basically have to give up on the promise of heaven as well. Read a bit on evolution. You will quickly see that we humans are actually no different from any other animal. Dead mice don't go to heaven. Dead dogs don't go to heaven. Dead cows don't go to heaven. And neither do humans.

There are two things that helped me to stop worrying about heaven.

The first is that I am not musical at all, and the propect of sitting on a cloud playing a harp for the rest of time fills me with dread.

The second reason not to worry about heaven is that god supposedly created Adam and Eve perfect, but they broke god's laws almost immediately. This resulted in humanity being doomed to death and damnation. If the very first humans on earth broke god's laws, there is a very real possibility that of all the millions of people who could potentially have gone to heaven (if there were a heaven) someone has broken god's laws up there and we are all doomed and damned again until god finds another son to sacrifice. This idea is obviously crazy, but no crazier than the original story of Adam and Eve's disobedience and the subsequent damnation of all of humanity.

Good luck on your journey. There will be hard times, but it is the only way to true fulfillment.

Anonymous said...

You all sound the same. As christians you couldent figure it out and it's still the same. Keep thinking super hard and enjoy life. lol

Anonymous said...

fulfillment in nothing =) right on. I grew up atheist I wish you all had to. Because at this point in your lives you wouldent be so afraid of god. If you looked hard enough you might even see a mircale or two.

Anonymous said...

Todd, WOW that was quite a story ... I just can't get over how people will still "spiritually submit" themselves to your ex pastor, even though he's a registered sex offender! Isn't it twisted that being gay is a worse sex crime than, say, having sex witha child? Hypocrisy like that really makes me sick.

Anyways, welcome to Ex-c! Glad you found the door out of that living hell.

Jim Lee said...

Hi Todd. If your quitting Christianity for good then you may as well give up on the creator crap as well. Because that's what it all is. No more than crap. There are no creator gods , no angels, no demons, no satan, no heaven and no hell and there never was a New Testament Jesus. That's it in a nut shell. Regarding homosexuality, Christian Scripture sees it as an abomination. What they don't tell you is that eating shrimps, prawns oysters etc is also an abomination and fits into the same punishment catogory at homosexuality. So think about all those Christian hypocrites who eat shellfoods and fish without scales. Why not stone em to death? It's scriptual. Cheers Jim

boomSLANG said...

Anon 3:26 AM suggested: "Keep thinking super hard and enjoy life."

Hey, brilliant!... a fundy uttering the Freethinker's mantra! Intead of believing blindly, we should "think super hard"; and instead of kissing a non-existant deity's ass and worry about getting into a non-existant afterlife, we should just "enjoy life"!!!!

By Jebus, he's got it!!! Welcome to reality, Livernuts!!!!!

LOL

boomSLANG said...

Oh, and BTW----blasphemy is a BLAST-FOR-ME!!!

Ooooooo, don't hurt me, Jebus, please!

....::Muahhahahahaaa!::...

lol.

freeman said...

boomslang,
Here is a blast-for-me,
God had sex with his mother and then committed sucide!

south2003 said...

boomSlang and freeman, you guys are a mess (like me heheh)and nonetheless...funny as hell!

"God had sex with his mother and then committed sucide!"

Ouch! I love it!!!

Dano said...

IF we are all God's children, he had sex with his daughter! If Jesus was God and had sex with Mary, he had sex with his sister. No tellin what poor OLE Joseph thought abut all this incest, and adultery. If Jesus was Catholic, he will burn in hell for committing suicide. If Muhammad was right, Jesus was a liar. What a mess! If God had been smart he would have made Jesus out of clay like he did Adam, and avoided all this confusion!

freeman said...

What a dumb bastard!

J.T. Finally Christianity Free said...

Welcome Todd!! Great Story. The best advice any of us can give you is just be you. YOU ARE WHO YOU ARE!! Don't let these self righteous, hypocritical,know it all ROBOTS control your life any longer. Live life the best you know how and it will all work itself out. It sounds like your coming to that point. As a christian teenager I used to beat myself up over my sexual feelings I had toward the opposite sex. It wasn't Satan or anything like that. It was me being me. Looking back my feelings were very natural and very healthy. I used to go to these wednesday night youth nights at a local church here in Pittsburgh and I remember being brainwashed by this know it all youth pastor about how evil and disgusting my feelings were. I'm not sure if this idiot even had any feelings let alone sexual feelings!! LOL!! Some of these xtian Robots have become emotionless. I should never have put myself through that and neither should you. Just be you!! Thats the best any of us can do!! Life is a journey and a great learning experience!!

J.T. Finally Free said...

I recently read an article about those gay dolphins who apparently are very much in love with each other over in the UK. I wonder what all these fundys would do if science found a way to communicate with these dolphins. I bet these jackoffs would probably try telling the gay dolphins about what the old testament has to say about homosexuality and how they should pray to Jesus about their "feelings". Hmmm I really wonder what these fundys would do if we were somehow able to communicate with these dolphins. It would probably be hillarious anyway. Oh yeah and what about the Gay Penguins??? Just wondering?? I'll tell ya for a loving religion Christianity has just caused so much hatred and violence toward gay men and women through it's hateful speech. I really do think sometimes that the religious finatics in this country are about one or two steps away from being classified as a terrorist group with all their hatred and hateful rhetoric.

freedy said...

To anonny fundie@3;30 a.m.The only
miracles I've seen lately are
all the ex-christians who actually
escaped the prison of churchianity!
By the way ,how old are you?.
I can't believe your parents let you stay up so late!

FREEDY said...

""I ONCE WAS FOUND,..BUT NOW I'M
LOST,"....just something i'm working on,..Where the hell is my
"MUSE" !!!?

fvrnite said...

First off, I applaud you for doing the right thing even though it would cost you your " fellowship". I am a hetero Wiccan butI see no problem in someone being gay. As for your fear of going to hell, may I suggest that you do some reading up on other faiths. You've been so indoctrinated into the Chirstian faith that you apparently haven't realized that there is more than one pathway to Deity. Sure it's scary being a " unbeliever", but take it from me, G-d is not limited to one religion or one form. I've been preached to too many times to count, with threats of eternal damnation from their " loving" god. If yous till want to be a Christian, a church like Metropolitan Community Church or try Unitarianism may be better for you.

Anonymous said...

Thanks so much for your ex-testimony, Todd. I'm going through something very similar and your words were really encouraging. Many of the contradictions in their thinking are ones that I knew of too, but was only brave enough to think of them long after I was converted.

Anonymous said...

(this is in addition to the comment above) When I was a fundamentalist, I felt safe, accepted, and like I for once belonged. I think their constant cry of persecution also fuels this, making members of the church feel like they have to keep together and are somehow more special than the rest of the population. I was scared to leave that protection - what would all my friends and family think? But it wasn't until I got the self-confidence to leave that I could actually feel the wholeness that christianity promised and couldn't give me. And I am more at peace with God, whoever he/she is, than ever before.

Brother Harper's other Brother said...

Hey Todd, Seek The Lord Your God and You will Find Him! Most of these exchristians are quitters! Don't listen to a bunch of quitters.

Todd said...

Hello everyone,

Thank you so much for your comments and support.
This is a very serious issue I am dealing with, presently.

It is very hard to question something that is almost intrinsic to you. I have been, literally, in the Christian church since I was in my mother's womb.
I come from a family of true dyed in the wool fundamentalist Christians who refuse to deviate from the Bible in any way shape or form.
Literally, everytime a natural disaster occurs the "Jesus is on his way back...The world is going to end" alarms go off.

I often wonder was I adopted by my family. If there wasn't such a strong familial resemblance I would wonder. I'm gay, moderately liberal, I believe in evolutionary theory, AND I think the bible is an unreliable source...I am a complete and utter contradiction from my family members...
Brother Harper's other Brother said...

To answer Brother Harper. Brother Harper, I did seek Jesus. I did "find" him.
However, it has not helped this phase of my life.
Case in point: After 24 years(I'm 24 now)I'm still gay. I prayed and BELIEVED with all my heart that the power of god could make me straight.
So, after years of mentally torchering myself until the point of a suicide attempt I've decided to just be myself...And in that I've found that I feel full completeness.
Why does god require so much suffering? If it were up to my church congregation I should become a Monk instead of having a sexual relationship with a man I love. That isn't fair, because I don't want to be celibate. I'm a sexual person to, so why should I deny myself just because I cannot be attracted to a woman?

If god hates gays so much then why does he keep creating us?

I'm not a quitter, but I am a thinker. And I am thinking that Christianity is not the faith for me...

As I said, I do believe in a deity. So I'm still a thiest...However, is the god of the bible truly the one for me? I have to say no...
Even though it is hard for me to let go...As someone mentioned up thread, when you join the Christian church you feel this level of protection...Since Christian people portray themselves as "us against the world" you feel enclosed in this protective bubble...However, it was a disservice to me because it forced me to try and change something so vital.

And I did such a "wonderful" job of immersing myself in my religion that every single person I've surrounded myself with is a fundamentalist...Needless to say I am not out to ANYONE in my social and familial circle. Hell, even the guy I am dating is trying to repress his sexuality when he is obviously gay(he told me in so many words)...Yes, Houston Texas is hell on a gay man's self esteem...That is why when I graduate I am high tailing it for Seattle.

Also, I am in this weird stage where I find myself still pretending to be a christian to please others. Everyday my faith in the bible lessens and I find myself pretending.
I used to think it was the spirit of god that led people to testify and "witness" before others...But now I realize that is almost cult like.


In regards to my pedophile ex-pastor who has a new following. Yes, it is a real travesty. I have been an upstanding law abiding citizen my entire life.
I work and attend college. I have a perfect GPA(I made the national dean's list for crying out loud) as well...I plan to become a teacher when I leave school, a thankless job. YET, I should rot in hell because I love men.
BUT, my ex-pastor rapes children and God will forgive him and let him goto heaven.

Anyway, I'm not going to give up on higher power(well, who knows. I never thought I would EVER stop being a Christian)...But I choose to believe that God is love and beyond any dogma or biblical text.

On that note, I remember my Sunday school teacher teaching us that Christianity was the only legitimate religion because "we have the bible to stand on."

Todd said...

And, to make matters worse...while I attend college and work I still live at home with my mom.
Grant it, my mom and I have a very good relationship...
BUT, living room television set is constantly on the hate filled station Trinity Broadcast Network.

If I have to listen to another John Hagee, "Everyone is going to hell, except him..." sermon I'm going to scream and pull my hair out by the roots.

boomSLANG said...

Brother Harper's other Bumbling Buffoon said:

"Hey Todd, Seek The Lord Your God and You will Find Him!"

That's very enthusiastic, Numbnuts..... but check this out---The guy said he was "gay"---did you not read his testimony? And according to your ancient hand-book, being "gay" is an abomination in the eyes of your Lard, remember? So even presuming that your crock-o-shit religion is true---why would anyone want to seek out and "find" a "God" who would judge his or her character as a human being based on what gender they're attracted to? It doesn't get more pathetically shallow than that. Get lost!

BTW, wouldn't sticking your nose up a deity's ass be considered "sodomy", too? lol

Brother Harper's other brother said...

You EXchristians seem like very bitter people. You should call this www.bitterchristian.net.lol. You need to come back to God. Your still a bunch of quitters in my book.

Bill said...

Total manipulation is the name of the game.

When people use the biblical cliché's seek ye this, seek ye that invite Jesus, god, etc., they are saying I got fooled and I want you to be fooled like me.

Todd you've got to get away from your parents, they are dead in christ, and they are not changing, you cannot live under religious tyranny, at least a sane person cannot.

I cannot find any fault in you, and I do not condemn you, so I must be more loving than the make believe god, so what? you're gay, it just means that you're happy just the way that you are. Get away and as far away from your family as soon as you can. There's no help for them, they will go to their grave worshipping a false image, implanted in their brain by their own fear and ignorance.

Todd you already know all this, live your life for Todd, not for others.

There's a saying "Live your own life, because you die your own death." TC, Bill

Dano said...

Posted by Brother Harper's other brother to =Harper Brothers Publishing= GOLDIE!

Todd said...

I agree Bill. I have one more year before I complete my degree and after that I'm high tailing.
Grant it, I still love my family...But we have completely ideologies now.
So basically, I just keep a low profile now.

To The Real Quitters - Fundamentalists said...

BHOB: "You need to come back to God. Your still a bunch of quitters in my book."

There is a difference between quitting and searching for evidence. I personally haven't quit searching for evidence, however, I find it ironic that many religious people have stopped searching, and they haven't got one iota of evidence to support their belief. The real quitters, are the ones who refuse to acknowledge the possibility that they don't have all the answers, dare I say fundamentalists fit that picture much better than many who don't follow religion.

boomSLANG said...

B.B.B.I.(Bumbling Brother Buffoonery Incorporated said):

"You EXchristians seem like very bitter people."

LOL!.....that's good stuff, Brother Buffoon!.... but is your malfunction really because we seem "bitter"?...or is it because we disagree with your play-school belief in Jebus Crust? I wonder...?

B.B.B.I. then said:" You should call this www.bitterchristian.net.lol."

That's cute....but I think "www.comebacknpostwhenyougetaneducation.fundy" would be a good alternate address for this website. D'oh!!! lol!

B.B.B.I. said: "You need to come back to God."

' Tell ya what......provide evidence that your "God" is real?... THEN, finally, I can call him a wuss-bag to his face!

Buffoon: "Your still a bunch of quitters in my book."

You haven't even STARTED to live your life yet--that's because you're to busy brown-nosing your non-existant deity's ass, so don't tell us about "quitters"....'k fundy? Now BEAT IT!

Got Jesus said...

My Friend, Go ahead and lose your religion you need to expierence Jesus, not religion. I would say that is what happened to you. If your preacher is a child molester, then he could not be preaching Jesus. The church is dead, it is full of enemic people, people who want God to give them a ticket to heaven to get out of hell. That is all wrong. God is the Creator,He created man in his own image to praise Him the creator. But He gave us one thing that is our's. Is is our choice (or our will.) He gave us that so we could choose to serve (praise) Him (God). And the first man and woman choose to be selfish and disobedient to God. So therefore all men after that has that sin nature in them, so we are born sinners, who are selfish. WE ARE NOT SINNERS BECAUSE WE SIN, WE SIN BECAUSE WE ARE SINNERS. (It helped me to understand that.) So God said I need to give these people a way of escape, I will send My only Son to be a Savior for them. But he will need to be a real live human being like them "US". Since he is God He impregnated Mary with his Holy Spirit. It was not a sexual relationship, it is God, Just the same as He spoke the whole world and space into being,He did that. So Jesus is born, but He lived a perfect life in the same world that we live in. Because he had power (relationship) with His Father, God. But he (Jesus) had to die to take all of our sins away, to clear our account with God. (For God so loved the world that he GAVE His only begotten son, that whosoever believeth IN Him should Not perish, but have everlasting Life. John3:16) The whosoever believeth part is our choice again, we have to choose that we want our sins taken away. We have to give them up willfully, He not going to just grab it from you unwillingly. Alright he didnt just die, but God raised him from the dead, thats power now. So when we willingly give up what we want for what God wants, then He gives us the power to live above the old selfish way that we used too. Then we will want to praise Him, with all our hearts, soul, mind, and strength,that is the same relationship Jesus had with his Father. Thats how we get out of going to hell.

Anonymous said...

Wow Todd,

I can understand why your belief in Christianity has been shaken. You have witnessed a lot of contradictions in people's lives who say they are believers. I feel like I want to encourage you as a person who went from being an atheist to a believer in Christ, and also as a person who used to be bisexual that God does not hate you because you have feelings for other men. In fact God doesn't hate you at all. I know this might not be what you would expect to see or read on a website like this, but I want to pray for you. I don't understand everything the Bible says, but I also know that God did not make us to be all these things that the Bible says are wrong. This may be where you have felt judged by Christians, like you are worse of a person because of a particular type of sin in your life. But this is not the case at all. We all need God's forgiveness regardless of what our particular sins are, and God does offer us forgiveness of sin and also will work in us himself to bring about change in our lives, we may never be perfect, but it isn't about being perfect, it's about being in a relationship with our creator, that's what Jesus' death was all about. Perhaps the Christianity you've seen is crap, but perhaps that doesn't mean that Jesus himself isn't legitimate. Here's a website you might be interested in checking out. God Bless you. experiencerestoration.org

J.T. Finally Free said...

wow the ignorance of some of these self righteous Robot Christians never ceases to amaze me. If leaving a mind numbing cult makes me a "quitter" then so be it. Hey Jackass we're no longer Robots in here!! OK!! I just think your jealous because we had the balls to leave this madness you call christianity and you can't. Let me tell you If there is a God Brother Harper he will give me the opportunity in life to someday bitch slap you!!!

J.T. Finally Free said...

Hey anonymous and got jesus, If the Holy Spirit seriously lived in people especially in Texas then I'm quite sure that our friend Todd would never have been exposed to this crap christianity Right???? Give it a break already. Your not saying anything new just the same old lies and christian BS!! This young man needs real encouragement in life. Life is not easy especially being a young gay man in Texas. That is probably very hard on him and he does not need a bunch of self righteous know it alls telling him how messed up he is and how perfect christians are. Gees Man give it a rest already! Just Stop shit already. Haven't you christians caused enough violence and hatred toward gays in our society?? Oh I get it those people like Falwell and them weren't real christians like you are!! Ok we get it. Enough with your nonsense!!

Bible God Is Vengeful said...

Hey, Got Jesus, the god you are describing didn't come from the bible. Where did you learn of this new loving and compassionate god. It obviously wasn't from a holy book, so it must have been from another person, who is supposed to be prone to error and sin, just like everyone else.

J.T. said...

Hey Got Jesus You sound like a fat bald got saved know it all Baby Boomer who finally found Jesus. Well great keep your shit to yourself you goddamn know it all. First you guys were hippies now your all a bunch of bible thumping Holy Roller Robots! I swear to God your generation damn near killed this country!!! Give Me a f'ing Break!!!

Anonymous said...

Bill said...
"Until someone comes back with first hand knowledge of a hell, I would not worry to much about it."

and concluded by saying, "There is no soul, god, jesus heaven, hell, angels, miracles, spirits, ghosts...period."

Based upon your own admission of someone coming back, How can you be so sure there isn't Heaven, Hell, Jesus and angels in a spirit realm? No one has returned and said there wasn't. What's good for the goose...yaddy yadda

.:webmaster:. said...

Anony said: "No one has returned and said there wasn't."

That's not how it works friend. Using your "logic" (I use the term loosely in this case) then it is up to you to come back with pictures disproving the Loch Ness Monster, Atlantis, and fairies at the bottom of the pond for me to say, "Those things don't really exist."

If you're not following me yet, try this little story: There is a giant spaghetti monster that lives in a parallel universe. When we die, our souls travel to this parallel universe. We are eaten by this giant spaghetti monster, digested for a thousand years, and pooped back out into this universe again. Here in this universe it's called being born.

Pretty fantastic claim, wouldn't you say? Now, the problem is, no one remembers this experience (luckiliy). So, until the doubter can present me someone who remembers something different happening between their incarnations on this globe, I'll have to stick with my monster story. After all, I've been taught this story all my life, so it must be true.

I think it's reasonable for you to doubt this story and even tell me there is no such thing as a spaghetti monster in a parallel universe that will eat my soul and poop me out after a thousand years. It would be reasonable for you to assume that I just made it up. It's a silly, ridiculous story.

Well, likewise, it is a ridiculous story that a god, filled with unconditional love for his little creations, would decide, out of love, to condemn untold millions and even billions of human beings to eternal, agonizing tortures in unimaginable pain because they just didn't believe, for one reason or another, in a bleeding man god on a stick.

Think about it.

south2003 said...

Todd,

Welcome to EX. I understand quiet well what you have been through.

The church had led me to believe that everything that happens to man was god's way of teaching us a lesson and showing his love.

On or about a year ago (a year prior I became an unbeliever), a few friends and I were just sitting around and enjoy the southern weather. As girlfriends, we all shared our hurts and pains with relationships, childhood memories and talked openly about how we were treated as girls in our family. My molestation came up and so did the other girls (which was not surprising) they too were molested to some degree – and oh my - of course we talked about religion. Yuk!

You see, all was well until I brought up the fact that I am disgusted with this god concept that I was brainwashed with for 18 yrs into believing. One of the girls in the group, (who is a REGULAR church attendee and a bible thumping hypocrite who drinks like a fish (just wanted to point that out)), thought she could un-warrant my unbelief with saying “maybe” god made my molestation happened for a reason. You see Todd, I had to make a choice and I had to think quickly – I knew I was angry enough to leap for that bitch’s neck – yea that would shut her up , but then I thought - just let her talk and make an ass of herself, while the rest of the girls look on in disgust wondering what kind of a god she worships – which in turn will lead them to start thinking about their so-call “faith” and what they ‘believe in.’ I chose the latter and it worked! It was good. I wasn't laughing back then, but now I do - a lot!

Anyhow, the sad part about that fiasco is that she was also molested and of course she is at the point where now the church has led her to believe her molestation was god’s way of teaching her a lesson. I wonder how she is doing.

I hope you see the correlation. It doesn’t matter what you do and how you live…Christians will never be satisfied. They have so many conflicting teachings including in their blood book that is impossible to find two sects that agrees. Therefore, it is left up to us to value who we are and so - FUCK ‘em!

Todd said...

Thank you everyone for your replies. This thread is really making me think...

First of all I would like to address "Got Jesus."
Got Jesus, I have done every single thing you have said in your entry, ad nausem.
I went to church, I believed TRULY in the power of Jesus Christ. I believed that I was "saved" and I believed that if I prayed, believed, and tried hard enough I could change from gay to straight.

I tried for years and NOTHING worked. I finally came to the conclusion that this is what I am. It is not a choice.
I am losing my religion simply because my religion will not accept me--how I believe--the creator(whomever you believe it to be)made me. I am gay. I have a reason and a purpose just the way I am and I don't want to change it either.

On that note I have to ask about all the biblical scenarios you provided.

For onething, why would a just and loving God toy so ruthlessly with his creations? God created Adam and Eve in a world of blissful harmony...HOWEVER, he places the serpent in the Garden AND a tree that they could not eat from.
In my opinion Adam and Eve were complete and total innocents. They were like children. They had no concept of death and sin.
So why did god even expect them to know what death is?
Furthermore, he pit two guiless innocents against the father of lies himself. That is like putting a four year old--who has never been out of the house--in a room with a jaded pedophile. The pedophile is going to succeed each and everytime...Yet, a loving and benevolent god left them alone with the serpent and just watched as they fell...
Furthermore, if God created man in his own image...to be like HIM...Why did he punish man for aquiring knowledge, thus becoming like HIM(or them, because god refers to himself in plurality throughout genesis)?

I just don't get it anymore, and "JUST BELIEVING" is not good enough. I am not a child, and I feel so patronized by preachers and churches who expect me to just swallow all of that.
At this point I don't agree with approximately 90% of the bible, and that percentage could increase sooner than later...

I have always been taught that god is perfect and flawless. Well, the god of the bible is completely flawed! Infact, he reminds me of many humans who are enraged.

Furthermore, why would a loving and benevolent god play such a cruel and sadistic joke on Abraham. Abraham was going to kill his son, Isaac, just to show god how much he adored him. And right when he was about to deliver the coup de grace god says, "Stop...I was just joking. I just wanted to see if you were going to do it." Well, not in those words but you get my point.
That is the kind of god I have been praising my entire life...

It isn't just about not liking church and my sexuality...IT is so many things that I have been questioning for so long.

I still believe in a divine entity, but I am not so sure about the Judeo Christian god.

For once I would like a real answer from someone and not Bible scriptures and Christian catchphrases...

I am disenchanted with the entire thing, because where I grew up in church everything was about an image. Who could pray the loudest and the longest, who could testify the most, and etc...etc...
Christianity is so disjointed. There seems to be less and less cohesion...However, they are all unified on hating me because of my sexuality, simply because some guy wrote, in a book, over 2,000 years ago, with no scientific data, that I'm going to hell.
Frankly, I am sick and tired of being scared of going to hell. I am tired of feeling like if I have a bad day I am commiting a mortal sin or letting the devil control my thoughts...Sometimes people are sad and pissed off. That is just human nature.
I am sick of trying to be a Christian robot.

Well, sorry for ranting. I just had to get that off my chest.

Jay said...

Hi Todd, I completely understand what you're talking about. I think that the reason most ex-christians hate the church is because the churches have stolen our love and acceptance away from our parents.

I am 35 years old and I have never once heard my father say to me that he loves me. But he will stand up in front of a church and tell everyone how much he loves the lord and jesus and he does not even know if either one exists. But I know for 100% sure that I exist, but yet our parents will praise and devote a lot of time worshipping an invisible myth and the preacher.

Religions offer conditional love, as long as you'll kiss the church members and the preachers asses they will love you, but if you tell them it's all a crock of shit, then they will hate you and ostrasize you.

freedy said...

Brother harper's other brother,..
Bitter?,...some of us are a little bitter of being manipulated,
conned,lied too,ripped off(money &time),preached down too etc...,

Quitters?,...yea!,maybe you should consider quitting a false belief system that decieves people robs them of their intellect and
freedom to think for themselves!

Hey you make a great point Bro!

Anonymous said...

Interesting read. First off, YHVH does condemn any sexual immorality. Have you ever heard of "love the sinner but hate the sin?" YHVH doesn't hate the homosexual but the act of homosexuality. He even says that if a person or people were willing to repent then He would except them back. Reason being, YHVH is like a consuming fire. Have you ever wonder why YHVH haven't shown himself to a world of sinners?

The problem with modern Christianity is that they only want to see a loving YHVH, a merciful God. In addition, they like their ears tickled. That's why many fall into the deceptions.

May I ask you, how many Christians do you know that have read the Bible and understood it? How many truly have the Holy Spirit? How many truly understood what they practice?

.:webmaster:. said...

Wrong, wrong, wrong...

God HATES the SINNER!

Click Here

Todd said...

Interesting read. First off, YHVH does condemn any sexual immorality. Have you ever heard of "love the sinner but hate the sin?" YHVH doesn't hate the homosexual but the act of homosexuality. He even says that if a person or people were willing to repent then He would except them back. Reason being, YHVH is like a consuming fire. Have you ever wonder why YHVH haven't shown himself to a world of sinners?

The problem with modern Christianity is that they only want to see a loving YHVH, a merciful God. In addition, they like their ears tickled. That's why many fall into the deceptions.

May I ask you, how many Christians do you know that have read the Bible and understood it? How many truly have the Holy Spirit? How many truly understood what they practice?
___________________________________


This kind of lunacy is EXACTLY what I am talking about.

The "Love the sinner hate the sin" jargon is complete and utter Bullshit as far as I'm concerned. That makes me so angry.

First of all, sexuality is not a sin. It is completely natural...And please don't compare my sexual preference for the same gender to pedophilia and beastiality.

If my sexuality is so SINFUL then why did god create me--and millions of others--with it? So, a just and loving god who loves everyone and everything automatically condemned us to a fiery hell, from birth?

I have no intention of becoming a celibate monk. I want to have a loving and intimate relationship...If God had meant for me to chaste he wouldn't have given me a libido.

This is the primary reason I feel myself drifting away from the Christian church. On onehand you have these people preaching the love of Jesus Christ...BUT, in the next breath God will condemn you to a fiery hell...

It makes NO sense to me anymore.

Lastly, I am surrounded by nothing but Christians. It has been that way my entire life. And what I see are a bunch of people who put up a facade in order to not be themselves. I refuse to live in a lie. Yeah, I could easily go out, get married, and have kids...But eventually I am going to pursue my urges, just like all the other preachers out there do...

I have come to the conclusion that the bible was written by men who did not draft up a proper story outline to avoid plotholes.

Anonymous said...

Anyway, this is just a comment section so let's not start something big here. Forums anybody?

Also, that was a good read. It'll be off topic if I post something here ya know. The quote of Pat Robertspon was quite eye-straining though. Got some good points but it was one mainly sided though.

t.f. said...

I did not have the time to read thru all the comments to see if someone else mentioned this about hell:
Hell is a Greek idea, not a Hebrew one. In reading about the Maccabean revolt and about the history of "sheol", "hades", "tartarus", and "gehenna", you will learn a lot about what these concepts mean and how the afterlife (within Judaism AND Xianity) has evolved over time within religious beliefs--thus it is a meme.

I'm glad you are filled with peace and feel complete now...I can relate.

boomSLANG said...

Anonymous fundy intruder # 7,000,003 said:

"One reason I became a follower of Christ is because He actually DOES do stuff."

Dear guest, aside from the improbable, yet, fully possible coincidences that happen this universe, please name the "stuff" that your God has done that shows there is >>> OBJECTIVE <<< evidence for "His" existance. In other words, please provide evidence that your God can DO THE IMPOSSIBLE. Subjective experience DOES NOT count. Thanks.


"If you wait, God will bless you, I'm certain."

Wait a minute, you're not even "certain" that your god exists(see above), so please stop with this non-sensical and misleading BS. Again, if I'm wrong, then please provide >>>OBJECTIVE<<< evidence that your god exists. Thanks.

"I wouldn't mess with His guidelines of a beautiful life if I were you."


I wouldn't go to an EX-Christian website spewing such idiotic statements without being able to provide >>>OBJECTIVE<<< evidence that your god exists, "if I were you".(and thankfully I'm not)

Dear Fundy guest(s)--Either provide objective evidence that your god exists, OR BEAT IT! Thanks.

.:webmaster:. said...

The irritating, condescending, anonymous post was deleted for its abject self-righteous insensitivity and rudeness.

'Bye fundie.

boomSLANG said...

.....and here's a quarter, now go call all of your fundy friends.

J.T. Finally Free said...

MY RESPONSE TO THE PREVIOUS POST!! Hey Todd It's me Got Jesus> Hey I didn't mean to throw all that Christian self righteous crap back into your face its just that I'm a non thinking,self righteous, brainwashed Robot and I don't know any better!!! DUH!! LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL!!!

Anonymous said...

I don't know if anyone will ever read this, but what you have said and what was said on this whole site has touched me deeply. I feel very say (not toward you though), but that you have been treated shamefully, and that christianity has become some tramp that people have strung up their own way and forced onto others. I seriously am near the point of tears. I can identify with what you are saying, I myself am a Christian. Though I haven't been dealing with homosexuality, I have a huge issue with sexual purity, it has made me feel like trash many times. It's even harder when people act like its my works which are going to save me, that when I sin, i'm spewing God's wrath on myself. When every one acts like it's their own merrit to be pure. It's something thats not good at all. Don't think I'm Mr.Righteous because I'm not, I really can't restrain my "impulses" to sin (It's got to be the hardest battle, in which I fight so weakly). But I understand what pushed you away from God. What saddens me most is that Christianity is no longer what it was ment to be. Man has tried to turn it their own way. God (through Christ) is no longer someone to have a TRUE relationship with, but something we serimonaly pray to and visualize; not someone who we can meet.

I hope this means something to someone.

Steve said...

"You EXchristians seem like very bitter people. You should call this www.bitterchristian.net.lol. You need to come back to God. Your still a bunch of quitters in my book."

Although bitterness would be highly appropriate after what Christianity did to me and others here, I can only feel joy at escaping.

pault said...

I think you will find that all practicing Gays eventually lose their faith.

Its impossible for a practicing Gay to keep it?

You cant help but noticing how most christian boards there are on the web.That are awash with gays mocking Christ,because of their feelings of contradictions in their bodies? Their conscience tells them that homosexual sex is wrong! yet their bodies tell them otherwise?

I bet heaven is empty of Gays?

Even though they might have been reassured dozens of times by one or two of those Leftist.Liberal.Communist.Effeminate.Stormtroopers of the so called gay liberation army? You can spot them a mile away! Their ROBES give them away.the brighter they are the more gay they seem to be?

Yes! Some of those self-appointed ministers within the gay church movement know how to dress.I'll give it to the women.The Lesbian priests dress more soberly than the males.

SpaceMonk said...

Anonymouse: "...I have a huge issue with sexual purity, it has made me feel like trash many times. ...I really can't restrain my "impulses" to sin (It's got to be the hardest battle, in which I fight so weakly)."

Stop feeling guilty.
It's not natural.
Yes, they are impulses - no need for the quotes - they aren't temptations of the devil or anything else.
It's how all species stop from going extinct!

If there was a commandment against breathing could you hold your breath - for eternity?

If the bible had a law against eating could you fight back your impulses to grab some food and enjoy it?
Hardly.

Of course hyper-ventilation and over-eating are not healthy.
Just find your own personal balance and forget rules made up by other people /"holy" books.

I hope this means something to you.

Dave8 said...

SpaceMonk: "Of course hyper-ventilation and over-eating are not healthy. Just find your own personal balance and forget rules made up by other people /"holy" books."

WoW, Yep, unfortunately, there are many people who just aren't capable of separating out natural laws from common laws. Religious leaders, impose their "common" beliefs, onto "natural" law & order, and it creates unnecessary anxiety for the individual in society. take care...

constant seeker said...

"You EXchristians seem like very bitter people. You should call this www.bitterchristian.net.lol. You need to come back to God. Your still a bunch of quitters in my book. "

___________________________________


Oh, yeah, that is a very Christ like attitude. I'm sorry I don't remember Christ ever saying you are all just a bunch of quitters. Actually, the only times I remember Christ getting angry at anyone it was the religious Pharisees. Strange. Jesus yelled at the religious people and hung out with the hookers and thieves.

constant seeker

Jeffe said...

Todd,

I've left a comment on your blog before, and I am a Christian. You seem to have this impression that because I'm a Christian I hate you. I am curious as to exactly why this is? Because I don't hate you, and I honestly don't see where the Bible tells me that I should or that God does.

Dave8 said...

Here you go JeffE:

Duet 22:23-24: Kill rape victims if they fail to cry out loud enough.

Psalms 2:1-11 Kill the heathens?

Psalms 58:1-11 Wow - the righteous get to wash their feet in the blood of the non-religious.

Matthew 5:6-7 Pray in private not in public Jesus says. So, why do we need to have a National Day of Prayer. Why force public schools to have group prayer.

John 8:44 Here's where Jesus calls the Jews the sons of the Devil.
**Wasn't Jesus a Jew himself? That makes him king child of Satan I suppose. Just more hate speech.

Numbers 15:32-36 Violate the Sabbath (a.k.a. the 3rd commandment) and the penalty is death by stoning.
**Jesus himself, did not keep the Sabbath day holy, according to the bible.

Joshua 6:20-21 Kill all the people of Jericho, man and woman, ox, sheep, ass, with the edge of a sword. Why? Just because God wanted more land for Israel?

Duet 23:1-2 "No man with crushed testicles shall come into the congregation of Jehovah, nor an illegitimate child."
**Just an observation, but wasn't Jesus a Bastard child himself.

Ephesians 1:4-5,11 Again, we are supposedly pre-ordained at birth to our destiny. Nothing we can do about it.

There, just a few of the hundreds of contradictions and outright hate passages that exist in the bible. If you need more, let me know, or... here is a link to an online bible.

http://etext.virginia.edu/frames/bibleframe.html

Anonymous said...

Todd,
Please don’t lose your faith. And don’t be swayed by inaccurate statements by people who really never read the Bible. The Bible never teaches that you don’t get to Heaven if you’re gay. Jesus message is only peace and love. The Bible teaches that no one is without sin (doesn’t take a rocked scientist to figure that out). You can use john8’s example from John 8 “Here's where Jesus calls the Jews the sons of the Devil”. Actually what that statement was about was when a few teachers of law and Pharisees drug a woman caught in adultery in front of Jesus and tried to trick him with their law that someone caught in adultery would be stoned to death. Jesus said "If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her." If any church or so called Christian judges you because you’re gay they are who Jesus would call “sons of the devil”.
Find a church of true believers where all are accepted with open arms. It took me a long time to find this myself but they are out there. Following Christ is not about playing church. It’s not being righteous on Sunday then being a creep the rest of the week. I’m sure that’s why some of you in here are discouraged. I assure you there are evil people in any group Christian, Atheist whatever. If you get sucked in with people like that you will be doomed in any endeavor. In the Bible Jesus shed his blood for our sin. As Christians we believe that Jesus is God and our main objective is to have a unique personal relationship with him. Once you find this you have found God and will never turn back.
The best to you Todd whatever path you choose.

Anonymous said...

That last post from Annonymous made zero sense whatsoever. Obviously he's christian, so that is expected. But then I found that if I cut and paste his entire post into Wordpad and convert it to wingdings, it makes total sense! Ha! Go figure!!

Anonymous said...

Ha! Wingdings!! Now it looks just like the bible! Haha!!

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