Former Fundamentalist Turned Atheist After 8 Years of Belief

sent in by Chris Campbell

Ever since I was a young child, I believed in the Christian god. I remember from an early age my mother bought me a childrens' Bible, and I thumbed through it but didn't really understand it. Over time, I somewhat forgot about this god.

My home life wasn't all that great. A product of a broken home, and a neglectful alcoholic mother, I turned to religion in my late teens. I ended up going to a church a couple of times with a girl I was dating, but really didn't follow through with it.

I ended up joining the Navy at age 18, and prior to getting out, I picked up a Bible and started reading. I willingly believed everything in it, "knowing" it was true. Upon coming back to California, I immediately enrolled in a Bible study/fellowship group, and fell head long into eight long years of fundamentalist Christianity. I swalled it hook, line, and sinker.

Throughout my journey as a Christian, there were periods of "falling away" and doing my own thing. I was always fiercely independant. The whole time, I still believed in a diety. I ended up coming back to it a couple of years later, having an emotional breakdown in the process of "re-conversion".

I pursued Christianty for another year or so, and then fell away again for a couple more years. After two years of guilt and self condemnation, I decided to end the question once and for all about whether or not what I believed was true. I ended to trying to break through the wall of my mind by asking myself very basic, inductive questions. It wasn't long thereafter that I hit and devoured internet sites like "Infidels.org". I read everything I could get my hands on, and from that point on Christianity collapsed like the house of cards it is.

I have never looked back, and never will. I know for certain that Bible god doesn't exist. Every law of nature, the question of evil (to mention of couple of things) militates against any loving sky daddy existing. To me, it's common sense.

Since my deconversion, I have pursued all sorts of interests and studies: Evolution vs. Creationism, science, and the study of world religions just to name a few. I have come to the conclusion that all religions are nothing but dogma and bunk, especially the monotheistic ones.

I am so glad to be rid of Christianity and the prision that binds the mind, once and for all.


Sex: Male
City: Fair Oaks
State: California
Country: USA
Became a Christian: How old were you when you became a christian?: 20
Ceased being a Christian: How old were you when you ceased being a christian? 28
Labels before: Calvary Chapel, Fundamentalist
Labels now: Atheist/Free Thinker
Why I joined: Wanted to be closer to "god".
Why I left: I wanted to challenge what I believed, to see if it held up to the light of reason. Also, I didn't see why god would give us the ability to reason if he didn't intend for us the use it.
Email Address: deathsheaddivision at yahoo dot com

33 comments:

Anonymous said...

May God help u all wether u believe fire exist or not u still get burned, whether u believe gravity exist or not u try jumping off a 10storey building..whether u believe God exist or not one day u'll face him..one day. N for those who say they were christians n turned and fell n bla bla...the bible says that many on that day (judgement day)will say Lord didn't we prophcey in your name and cast out demons? u know what it says ya ofcourse u guys do ...another one i like too is not every man that says Lord Lord shall enter into heaven...not because he has preferences but because of their unbelief...u explain this too me guys everyone knows the world has a design it doesn't take a brain to know that...and behind every design theres a designer. and power isn't in chrisitianity without Jesus.....oh an sex is given to man by God but again it has its place and outside Gods place there's always conflict ...1man 1woman...not like sheep or dogs who got no choice we're men we can choose...may God open your eyes

Anonymous said...

Anonymous 12/07/2005 9:17 PM: "oh an sex is given to man by God but again it has its place and outside Gods place there's always conflict"

I forgot to pick up my "sex" from supply, perhaps I should go stand in line. Oh, and the sex is okay in gods eyes if its conducted in the right place, sounds like an alibi used by a pedophile priest who always conducted business in church, and while you're here giving sex-ed classes, what is so holy about trying to ravish a woman with unbridled passion, seems to me its a bit more than a holy act. if not, then throw in, a male penis thrusting inside a woman in an effort to eject hormonal fluids, is that more holy.

I suppose next, you're going to suggest that your god gives a rats ass regarding how a person buries their natural shit.

Deuteronomy 23:13-14 - "And thou shalt have a paddle upon thy weapon; and it shall be, when thou wilt ease thyself abroad, thou shalt dig therewith, and shalt turn back and cover that which cometh from thee: For the LORD thy God walketh in the midst of they camp, and deliver thee, and to give up thine enemies before thee; therefore shall they camp be holy: that he see no unclean thing in thee, and turn away from thee."

Psalms, 23:

1: The Poop LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want.

2: He maketh me to lie down in squating pastures: he leadeth me beside the still paddles.

3: He restoreth my corncob bucket: he leadeth me in the paths of pooplessness for his name's sake.

4: Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of poop, I will fear no poop: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy holy paddle they comfort me.

5: Thou preparest an outhouse before me in the presence of mine enemies: thou anointest my butt with oil; my bowels runneth over.

6: Surely clean sandles and corncobs shall follow me all the days of my life: and I will dwell in the outhouse of the Poop LORD for ever.

Well, there appears to be all kinds of shit in the bible these days.

cdmon said...

Well first off it would be nice if you learned to spell.

anonymous said: "May God help u all wether u believe fire exist or not u still get burned"

I disagree, why? Because for the past 18 years I have been a firewalker. This means I walk barefoot over a 1300 degree bed of hot coals. I do this barefoot and guess what sunshine? I do not get burned. Now ask yourself what terror would I have of a literal hell that is supposed to burn my immaterial soul forever if I can walk on hot coals with my material body and not get burned. NO FEAR whatsoever.

anonymous said: "whether u believe gravity exist or not u try jumping off a 10storey building.."

I have friends who sky dive and base jump.... So what's the point?

anonymous said: "whether u believe God exist or not one day u'll face him..one day."

Okay anonymous no-name, How about we face him now? Where is your gawd? I'd like to meet him, but I'm not going to take your word for it or anyone else's. That is blind faith. Just accepting something as if it were true without proof.

When I was a child it took me years to get over the lies my parents told me about Santa Claus. It has also taken me years to get over the lies church taught me about gawd and jeezus. Unless you have tangible proof I can see for myself I will decline your words as nothing but rhetoric.

anonymous said: "N for those who say they were christians n turned and fell n bla bla...the bible says that many on that day (judgement day)will say Lord didn't we prophcey in your name and cast out demons? u know what it says ya ofcourse u guys do ...another one i like too is not every man that says Lord Lord shall enter into heaven...not because he has preferences but because of their unbelief..."

Perhaps you have missed the entire point here. Many of us were xians, just like you. We believed and had blind faith, just like you. Unlike you, we read the buy bull... We didn't just take some preachers word for it. We studied the buy bull and found it to be contradictory and not gawds word, but the word of man.

We found that no matter what the denomination was that xians everywhere are just as screwed up as non-xians. If jeezus is supposed to change people's lives, why do they still do things that are just plain evil? Obviously it doesn't work. It just makes you act self righteous and that in itself is enough to turn most people off. So as far as unbelief goes, what have you done that might change my mind? So far not so good.

anonymous said: "u explain this too me guys everyone knows the world has a design it doesn't take a brain to know that...and behind every design theres a designer."

Proof? Where is it? The problem isn't that we don't believe this, the problem is the burden of proof is on you. You are here trying to sell us on this idea, your claims cannot be tested scientifically. So ID is not a science it is a philosophy, your philosophy. It could only be made fact if it can be tested... so far it has come up short.

anonymous said: "and power isn't in chrisitianity without Jesus...."

First it is spelled Christianity, and please show me this so-called power. The only power I've seen is the mass delusion you xians all have bought into. It is a power based in fear of hell fire, Which as I have previously explained does not impress me.

Let me ask you a question... Would be a xian if you were not afraid of hell? Please be honest with yourself.

anonymous: "oh an sex is given to man by God but again it has its place and outside Gods place there's always conflict ...1man 1woman...not like sheep or dogs who got no choice we're men we can choose..."

Here goes the anti-homosexual rhetoric. Science has proven that there is a homosexual gene. And most homosexual people would never choose to be gay. Especially because there are so many intolerant bigots out there who make life miserable for them.
Knowing that homosexuality is genetic, and if you believe that your intelligent designer designed everything, he totally screwed up. Because then it was he who designed a gay gene. And your comment about dogs and sheep not having a choice is totally ludicrous, gay people also do not have a choice. So perhaps a little understanding on your part might make you a better person than your gawd. Because if he made that gay gene and then hates them for being gay, wouldn't you say that is supremely unjust? Sorry your logic doesn't work.

Anonymous: "may God open your eyes"

My eyes were opened when I saw the truth about the buy bull and the xian charade you call xianity.

Read about the history of xianity and the buy bull... perhaps it might open your eyes too.

Anonymous said...

am i suppose to be impressed by your fire walking? and all your plasters for every sore? got a smart but stupid answer for everything then u talk about contradiction? ur smart mouth or your great ideas wont work with God...u asked if i would still be a christian if hell wasn't for real? emm do u think thats my reason for being a christian? well its not. U have never experienced Gods Holy spirit ...no u wouldn't know what i'm talking about...cause its foolishness unto u...christians r in the minority n numbers decreasing r u so blind? the bible says narrow is the way few they r that find it Broad is the way to distruction what do u call that? chance? luck? i got allot more if u think its luck n story making...but God isn't all about burning people up and making people scared...n christians making up stories to start a movement like u guys do no we don't need to do that...k leme try to answer some of your comments...the first guy i wouldn't even respond to him the second guy or whoever...ok u want proof that God exist1 since there is a universe it must have been caused by something beyond itself. evolution lol ya sure billons and billion of years huh don't insult me by bringing that up please.2 the law of causality , which says that every limited thing is caused by something other than itself. The universe needed a cause at its begining and it needs a cause right now to continue. anything that has a begining has an end.again design...asked for evidence to support this arguement ...i look around and see with my two eyes. everything that the Bible says will happen in the last days r coming true u explain how that is possible u explain how blind men are made to see again and the lame made to walk and cancers being healed n doctors have nothing to do with it not years ago NOW in our age still. but i mean i'm just giving a tip of the iceberg allot of stuff i'm not mentioning.....
And having Jesus in my life doesn't make me feel i'm a good boy. the more i learn about God the worst i feel about myself cause i recogniced what he did for me a lill cocroach...and homogenes n ur arguement about men not having choices u need to read how people who were gay etc when they accepted Jesus how he turned their life around so don't give me gene talk. so if theres a homo gene we stil got choice just like some people got fat genes doesn't mean they have to be fat.

freeman said...

anonymous,
The universe has always existed and will always exist. It is called expansion and contraction. It is an endless cycle, no beginning and no end. Your silly god has a beginning, that is man made it up and hence the beginning of god!

Anonymous said...

expantion and contraction ..nice terms do u even know what they mean? and :O the world has no end? Hmm ok science could prove that it is n lets say evolution we suppose to be better? i don't see things getting better...the bible says that there will be no peace until Jesus returns the second time...sorry to pop your bubble

freeman said...

Anonymous,
Yes I know what the two terms mean. Hell, I can even spell them! LOL

Pop my bubble?! The bible and jesus are fake, make believe items for illiterate people like you who are too dumb to learn and therefore easier to control.

Anonymous said...

whats with the personal attacks? say something that would make me believe ur big bang theory. or your so called homo genes.have u ever seen a gene? n no matter what i say u wont believe because most of u atheist are just bitter i mean lets face it within u know there's a God but u prolly asking why God did u do that, How could God allow that to happen? ya so who wants to be honest now?

Dave8 said...

anonymous 12/08/2005 5:41 PM: "whats with the personal attacks? say something that would make me believe ur big bang theory. or your so called homo genes.have u ever seen a gene?"

Obviously, no one is here to prove to you anything. Therefore, you can leave, and let the virtual door hit ya', where Nature split ya'...

On genetics, people are physiologically created, and have naturally unique features. A person can act naturally based on their genetic disposition, or they can choose to "not" act on their genetic disposition. Its still a choice.

Biologically speaking, a male who weighs 300lbs of solid muscle and is genetically molded in that manner, doesn't have to engage in a career that requires his muscles, because he has a "choice"... that doesn't mean he won't do a good job at what he does, however, he is "still" naturally predisposed to be naturally gifted with physical strength... So, there is a body composition starter for you...

Into Sexuality;

Hermaphroditism - "Congenital condition in which external genitalia and internal sex organs have both male and female characteristics.

Androgyny - Showing characteristics of both sexes
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

Klinefelter's Syndrome - Normally, men are born with one X chromosome and one Y chromosome (the chromosomes which determine gender). Klinefelter's syndrome is a genetic condition that occurs when a man is born with two or more X (female) chromosomes. Approximately 1 in 850 men have Klinefelter's syndrome. Symptoms of Klinefelter's syndrome include longer legs, a higher voice, a thinner beard than average men, smaller than normal testicles, and the inability to produce sperm (infertility). Men with Klinefelter's syndrome also have lower levels of androgens (male hormones) and higher levels of estrogen (female hormones).

People, are born with natural traits. They can either naturally accept those traits, or they can attempt to "modify" those traits in order to "fit" into the social mold. The question is, "why" should someone "have" to fit into a mold, in order to be treated with respect. Religions require people to conform, and if one is "out of the norm", then they aren't accepted as part of the social group. Its not about respecting the natural state of a persons' being, religion is all about assimilating people, to be what they "want" everyone to become, and have no problem destroying people psychologically in order to get them to undergo surgery, etc., to 'change' themselves.

Anyone can make a choice in life to be either gay or not gay, but if a male is predispositioned naturally, with a feminine essence with physiological attributes, who gets to tell them, they're wrong for making a decision based upon their "own" natural disposition. Who gives religion, the right, to say, this or that person isn't "genetically" right, and seems gay, therefore, they can't be a preacher... How do you tell a child who has had to undergo surgery as a child, with both reproductive organs of a male and female, if they made the "right" decision, I mean, they are obviously "gay" no matter which way they go. If they choose to be male, then they're really a lesbian who allowed themselves to keep their male organs, I suppose that would make them a dyke... If they choose to be a female, then they're really a homosexual who allowed themselves to keep their female organs, its obvious they had an attraction to males which led them to the decision...

Anonymous, there's your education on the "homo" gene... its called chromosomes, and physiological changes... Why not overwhelm us with your erudition, and tell us why you believe a homosexual is immoral... and if there is ever a reason a person could justify being a homosexual... without going to hell... Remember, if a child is born with a deformaty, are they predestined to hell, or should they just keep their sexual affairs off of the market, and lead a repressed life... like yourself...

Anonymous said...

HERMAPHRODITE
Accepted definition: A person born with both male and female sex organs.This is a vague, confusing and inaccurate definition. There are 3 labels of Hermaphrodites: True, Male pseudo and Female Pseudo. All are equally genuine.

TRUE
A person born with both ovary and testicular tissue, this could be 2 seperate gonads ( one of each) or a combination of both in one (an ovotestes). The genitalia can vary from completely male or female, to a combination of both or even ambiguous looking. The chromosome (karotype) compliment can be XX (female), XY (male), XX/XY (mosiac) or even XO (extremely rare). Those XX with female genitalia are raised female ( some have even given birth). Those XY with male genitalia are raised male ( a few have fathered children). The children born XX/XY or XO (with genitalia male or female are raised in the sex they look most like) ,Those born with ambiguous genitalia have many medical tests for the doctors to determine which sex they should be assigned. Doctors then recommend early surgery to make the child look physically like the sex assigned to them.

CAUSES
The causes are not known, The medical community does know this is a very rare condition but do not have accurate figures to how many people have this condition (depending on the literature between 350-450 known cases).

FEMALE PSEUDO
A person born XX with normal female internal organs but with "masculanized" genitalia. They can appear more male then female or a combination of each.

CAUSES
The most common is Congenital Adrenal Hyperplasia (CAH) it occurs approximately 1:14,000 births.This is when the adrenal glands overproduce testosterone. It also has been recorded that some persons with this disorder had been exposed to progesterone-like drugs before they were born.

MALE PSEUDO
A person born XY with testes (usually in the abdominal cavity). The external genitalia are usually female but can be ambiguous.

CAUSES
The most common cause is Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome (AIS). This is when the body doesn't respond to the androgen being produced. There are different variations: Complete (CAIS) , and Partial (PAIS). This condition has a variety of names and occurance rates..... is a type of intersex condition in which the person actually has a male/female mix at the genetic (sex chromosome) level and at the gonadal level. This is extremely rare and very few members of our group are in this situation. The old term for this situation is a hermaphrodite. Note however that a hermaphrodite, in the sense understood by most of society, is a purely mythical creature from ancient literature, one that supposedly has a complete working set of both male and female internal and external organs (such that the individual can, in theory, impregnate itself). This is not humanly possible. Unfortunately medicine took over this literary term in the days before genetics was understood and employed it as a medical term, to refer to these individuals who have both ovarian and testicular tissue internally (an ovo-testis) and who, as a result, can have ambiguous external genitalia...look it makes no sense i'm sending this to u'll or keep responding cause u need an excuse to be gay y do u need one? cause u have a conscience, who put it there? the questions u should be asking ur not asking...i know where i'm going the question is do u? what about those people with out body experiences some talk about fire some talk about glory...i mean there's so much proof but u can't see it...i'm out

cdmon said...

Well, well anonymous no-name, back for another taunting… And I see you still haven’t learned to spell.

Anonymous said: “am i suppose to be impressed by your fire walking?”

Yes you are! Why? Because you fear the fire. The only difference between me and you is I do not fear the fire, I commune with it.

You, on the other hand would run away sacred. If you can’t handle a mythical hell fire that would only burn an immaterial soul, how would you handle walking across the real thing?

Anonymous said: and all your plasters for every sore?

No sores whatsoever. I already explained to you it doesn’t burn.

Anonymous said: “got a smart but stupid answer for everything then u talk about contradiction? ur smart mouth or your great ideas wont work with God...”

Smart but stupid? And my smart mouth and great ideas won’t work with gawd? Your words are a contradiction… I don’t fear your gawd either.

Anonymous said: u asked if i would still be a christian if hell wasn't for real?

No, I asked you, would you be a xian if you were not afraid of hell? I don’t believe hell is real, so why would I ask if hell wasn’t for real. Please don’t put words in my mouth. How very fundie of you to twist my words.

Anonymous said: “emm do u think thats my reason for being a christian? well its not. U have never experienced Gods Holy spirit ...no u wouldn't know what i'm talking about...cause its foolishness unto u...”

You are assuming that I have never experienced gawd’s holey spook. You really know nothing about me other than I firewalk and I am an Ex-xain. I used to be a tongue talking pentecostal. So perhaps it is you who does not know what you are talking about. And for the record, YES! I do believe that is your reason for being a xian.

Anonymous said: “christians r in the minority n numbers decreasing r u so blind?”

No, Actually I agree that xians numbers ARE decreasing. Here’s why, people are waking up and seeing that it is the greatest bullshit story ever told. So if you still believe in it you are blind.

Anonymous said: “the bible says narrow is the way few they r that find it Broad is the way to distruction what do u call that? chance? luck?”

First I call it bad spelling. It is spelled destruction... And you dare call me stupid? Obviously you are not very educated are you? And I explained in my last post that the buy bull is man’s word, NOT gawd’s. Quoting scripture to me doesn’t change that. I have heard it ALL before. Not impressed!! YAWN!!

Anonymous said: “i got allot more if u think its luck n story making...but God isn't all about burning people up and making people scared...n christians making up stories to start a movement like u guys do no we don't need to do that...k

Well they got YOU didn’t they?

Anonymous said: [from the previous post] “u explain this too me guys everyone knows the world has a design it doesn't take a brain to know that”

It also doesn’t take a brain to be a xian… The minute you become one your brain gets turned off and you start thinking with another part of your anatomy. I think for that you are the poster boy! It does take a brain to figure out that there is more to life than the buy bull and being a dumb little cockroach.

Anonymous said: “leme try to answer some of your comments...the first guy i wouldn't even respond to him the second guy or whoever...ok u want proof that God exist1 since there is a universe it must have been caused by something beyond itself. evolution lol ya sure billons and billion of years huh don't insult me by bringing that up please.”

Your logic does not prove the existence of gawd. Just because the universe was caused by something, doesn’t necessarily mean that it was your gawd that created it.

Anonymous said: “2 the law of causality , which says that every limited thing is caused by something other than itself. The universe needed a cause at its begining and it needs a cause right now to continue. anything that has a begining has an end.again design...asked for evidence to support this arguement ...”

The law of causality actually says: “Every effect must have a cause; the same cause always produces the same effects.”

Unless you are rewriting these laws it mentions nothing of every limited thing. Of course you twisted this to exclude your gawd, who if he existed must also have a cause. So this begs the question who created gawd? And thereby debunking your hypothesis…

Anonymous said: “i look around and see with my two eyes. everything that the Bible says will happen in the last days r coming true u explain how that is possible”

I don’t think it is possible, I think it is a huge scam. Your jeezus told his disciples he would return within their lifetimes. He didn’t!! So he is a false prophet. Again debunking your buy bull and all other so-called prophecies that you wish were being fulfilled.

Your buy bull is so open to interpretation any event however minute can be misconstrued as a fulfilled prophesy.

Anonymous said: “u explain how blind men are made to see again and the lame made to walk and cancers being healed n doctors have nothing to do with it not years ago NOW in our age still. but i mean i'm just giving a tip of the iceberg allot of stuff i'm not mentioning.....”

The human body is an amazing thing. It can heal itself. Don’t need a gawd for that. Medical science is pretty amazing too.

Anonymous said: “And having Jesus in my life doesn't make me feel i'm a good boy. the more i learn about God the worst i feel about myself cause i recogniced what he did for me a lill cocroach...”

You see you have proven my point, your religion IS based on guilt and fear. These are things the xianity wants you to feel. So you go on ahead and be a blind little cockroach. Give 10% of your money to a church. It’s your right to do so. But it is my right NOT to.

And it is you who are coming to an Ex-xian website trying to butt heads with people who already have been where you are now. You are totally out of your league.

I firewalk because if it is possible for me to do this, what else is possible? Human potential is great. We can do a lot of things that would normally be considered impossible. I prove this to myself every time I firewalk. I believe being a mere human is NOT so mere. Don’t need a tribal gawd or a dead man on a stick for this.

Anonymous said: “and homogenes n ur arguement about men not having choices u need to read how people who were gay etc when they accepted Jesus how he turned their life around so don't give me gene talk. so if theres a homo gene we stil got choice just like some people got fat genes doesn't mean they have to be fat.”

My dear anonymous, what a twisted world view you have. I have friends and family who are gay. One who is trying to live life as a xian, but still struggles day after day with it. He has a hard time just accepting who he is. And yes, I have read about gays who have undergone a gay deprogramming treatment. Small wonder they have such a high rate of failure.

As far as jeez turning people’s life around I have NOT seen any evidence of that. I have seen people who claim to have been saved and turn their life around, but the only noticeable change I see is that they become self-righteous and act like they are better than everyone else. They still do evil things. They hate people who are different… gays, witches, pagans and non-xians.

You know anonymous, you are really only here for our amusement… That’s all. Have great day, you have given me a good belly laugh... Thanx for that.

Cheers

Dave8 said...

anonymous 12/08/2005 10:34 PM: "look it makes no sense i'm sending this to u'll or keep responding cause u need an excuse to be gay y do u need one?"

You were the one who said that there is no such thing as a homo gene, its obvious you stuffed your entire leg in your mouth, there is in fact, naturally occurring chemo-biological processes that directly influence the behaviors of a child... The religiously ignorant, have this blocked cognition going on, they're neurological separatists, and seem to totally remove themselves from determinism... Okay, determinism, is the philosophy, that everything has a cause-effect relationship...

For example; a determinist will look at a homosexual person, and conclude that there were direct physiological and environmental nurturing factors which led to the behavior of a child, to wit; claiming themselves gay... just the same as a child who becomes heterosexual... yes, I know, anonymous, must be hard to believe that you too could have been gay... Well, if you don't believe this, then you must not believe that pregnant women don't have a direct influence on their fetus' physiological characteristics, to include neurological factors... here's an example...

"Fetal alcohol spectrum disorder is an umbrella term used to describe fetal alcohol syndrome (FAS) and the less noticeable, but sometimes equally serious, fetal alcohol effects (FAE). FAS and FAE are permanent, and often devastating, birth-defect syndromes caused by maternal consumption of alcohol during pregnancy."
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fetal_Alcohol_Syndrome

Ya' think that a child who is born of a parent who overdid their drinking might possibly have "different" challenges, in life, and perhaps, may make decisions differently than the mainstream... In short, a child who is shunned because of their physiological state of being (oh, no, I'm sure we don't pick out our mates based on physical looks), may look to "anyone" who cares for them, or provides them comfort, and thus bond...

A religionist doesn't see determinism, like yourself obviously, you see a child growing up, just like your bible... in a perfect "state", not formed, developed, changed, evolved, etc., no, no, the bible hit the earth at once in a perfect godly state, and so does every persons' body become perfect when they are born, no anamolies, or "differences"...

You justify homosexualism as being a Sin and Evil, because you feel that "everyone" has equal choices in life, and those who don't choose your way, are obviously "wrong"... To you, there are those who choose to live in "sin", and those who choose to "remove" themselves from "sin"... Well, isn't that special. So, dichotomous, in your view of the world... Totally removed from the possibility that our Natures are "determined" by physiological factors beyond our control, and environments in which we grow up in, that are for the most part of our early lives, beyond our control...

You just think, everyone is the same, because we all came from this dude Adam, and are all so Intelligently Designed, to include those with birth defects, and anomalies... I suppose you have to think this however, I mean... if you actually allowed for the potential that there are "legitimate" reasons for people to be "different" and behave "differently", or Individually, then there would be no "standard" in the "sin" pool... I mean, it just wouldn't be fair, for one person to be gay legitimately, and then curse someone to hell a pew over for being gay... Ah, the art of assimilation, and Absolute standards, there are never exceptions to the rules... everyone "must" be the exact same...

Well, since you don't have a deterministic view pre-birth, obviously, how do you determine those who are "evil" and "gay"?

Hmmmmm, "what makes someone gay?" Sodomy? Well, that makes all male heterosexuals who have committed that act with a female gay then... What other discriminator are you going to come up with? Oh, lets see, two same genders live together, well, studly, there are plenty of heterosexual same gender couples living together, I suppose that won't be the test... Oh, wait, I've got it... You believe that a male who has sex with another male is "gay", what about male rape victims? Oh, well... possibly, but only if the male enjoyed the rape?

Well, that kind of puts a wrench on women who are raped, and orgasm, I suppose they were willing rape victims. I don't know anonymous, why don't you just go ahead and define a homosexual for me that is Absolute... Perhaps, you will find a perfect Absolute definition, so tight knit, that I can't possibly find an exception, I mean, is that possible... by definition, its someone who is attracted to someone of the same gender, I mean, be a little more definitive, can that be a non-sexual attraction? Does it have to be a sexual attraction? Can two people emotionally bond, without sexual encounter, or do you believe that is sinful? Do you call this people gay, if they are of the same sex? Well, lets hear it from the peanut gallery, I'm sure you'll come up with something, don't disappoint me...

anonymous 12/08/2005 10:34 PM: "cause u have a conscience, who put it there?"

Who "gave" me a conscience, well, if I were born with a birth defect, would I have a conscience? No. However, you probably see a conscience as synonymous with "soul"... Well, hate to break it to you, I don't have a 'ghost' running around in my body, I know, its really alarming, I am totally animated without holy ghost puppet strings... I know, right from wrong, based on my "nurture", oh, remember that thing, where one grows up and learns what their Values are from their caregivers... Its true, a caregiver could teach a child that stealing is perfectly normal, and a child could grow up, and think everyone else in society just has it wrong... kind of like religious indoctrination...

anonymous 12/08/2005 10:34 PM: "the questions u should be asking ur not asking...i know where i'm going the question is do u? what about those people with out body experiences some talk about fire some talk about glory..."

Been there, had that experience, nothing but sheer bliss, kind of makes me want to be a gnostic with a pure pneuma which escaped the material hell my body is trapped within... Personally, I chalked my experiences up to nerulogical wet dreams, you know, the neurological processes which releases chemicals to regulate neurological homeostasis, yeah, that process... Why someone feels fire, and others don't, well, ask them, however, how do "you" know what they felt? I suppose, you'll have to take "their" words on "faith"... Kind of like the bible all over again, right...

anonymous 12/08/2005 10:34 PM: "i mean there's so much proof but u can't see it...i'm out"

There's so much proof about what? You are stuck on the 'big bang', homosexuals, and now NDEs, and the only topic you seem to have engaged in with any clarity is on the homosexual topic... What about the big bang, vs. creationism, I suppose you have proof that creationism is the true cosmological origins theory...

Well, here's a scary thought, regarding evolutionary biology, perhaps our brains formed first, and the exoskeleton later, and our nerve centers are all still growing and branching outward to the external parts of the body, "not" inward, "outward" stretching for "growth"... Well, like the expanding and contracting Universe, so is your life anonymous, you will stretch physiologically and cognitively for "x" years, and peak, and then, you will start regression, physiologically losing mass, and muscle tone, until you contract back to dotage... its just a matter of looking around your environment, but perhaps you need to peel blinders off, in order to see the systems/process symmetry between the varied fields of science... I know, you're out of here... well, its been good listening to yet, another person who has yet to "prove" anything... thanks... I'd suspect, like the male sperm, that it took a long time, to just hit the sweet spot, that causd our neurological synapses to explode in formation, however, if we were at the beginning again, I'm quite confident, your guy wouldn't have made the cut... have a great day...

Passerby said...

Hey Anonymous @ 12/08/2005 10:34 PM,
If you're going to plagiarize people's work, at least provide the source for your information. Oh, wait, I forgot, Christianity is a plagiarized religion. Christian's just pick up bad habits from their imaginary big sky daddy and book of blunders called the Bible.


And Anonymous, when you stare at your Christmas tree, the wreath, or mistletoe this holiday season---remember, they were all symbols of early religious customs that Christianity stole and made their own.


Oh, and speaking of symbols and female reproductive organs, I'm sure you are familiar with the fish(ICHTHUS; vesica pisces).
<>< <><
Yep, another plagiarized symbol the Chrisitans stole from early religious customs. Did you know this religious symbol used to depict female genitalia? How many Christians know this fact? LOL


May Jealous bless you this winter solstice.

Anonymous said...

look nothing i can say to u u will accept not because i don't have evidence but because of the hardness of your hearts. I'm a christian n allot of people say they r but they are just hypocrites. not only because of their life style but because of their hearts so that answers to most of your questions...people only when u die will u realise what i'm talking about but then it'll be too late n please don't respond don't waste ur precious time

cdmon said...

Come on anonymous, what did you expect? You are on an ex-xian website. You are here trying to save us when you can't even save yourself.

It is those of you who just can't help regergitating that stuff you learned in church. Stuff we've heard over and over again.

And if we are so hopeless why waste your time with us? I know there are numerous other websites out there with xians that believe the same you do, and will not challenge your beliefs.

You presence here is only fodder for our laughter. We do not take you seriously at all. And this because of the generalizations you've made, and your bigoted outlook.

You are here spouting that we're all going to be judged by a gawd you have failed to prove the exisitance of.

You know, anonymous. I doesn't matter to me if you live for jeezus or not. That's up to you, I will not lose sleep over it either way. I'm not trying to save you.

The problem is that we already know what you believe, after all whether you know it or not we used to believe the same way. And many of us were just as hard headed. I know I was.

You say we can't accept it because our hearts are hard. You really don't know the condition of anyone's heart.

We don't accept xianity because it is false. But you know what sunshine? We are very capable of loving, being loved and having a joyous life. And you don't have to be afraid of the fire, because if you study the bible there really is no literal hell.

The original word for the "Lake of fire" is gehenna. Gehenna is a place on earth. It means belonging to Hinnom. There is a place in the valley of Hinnom where babies were sacrificed the idol of Moloch. It was a huge metal idol that would be heated up with a huge fire, and they would put there babies in it's arms as the would burn to death.

Pretty gruesome!! But there is no evidence of an eternal torment after you die.

If you are dead you cannot feel pain, pain can only be felt by neural receptors. If you were to burn, the human body only contains a finite amount of fuel, so therefore could not burn forever.

If you could get past that fear you might understand that the xianity has used fear tactics for many years to try to control people. Take away the fear of hell, and xianity loses it's power over the flock.

Even the vatican has recently reduced hell to a separation from gawd.

So the only white throne judgement that I see happening, is when I sit upon my toilet with my laptop in hand answering your uneducated drivel.

As you have said, and I agreed that your numbers are declining. Small wonder.

cheers

cdmon said...

Passerby, Great post!!

And the cross was originally a phallic symbol.

The Ankh contains both the fish and the cross, and it symbolizes the union of both the male and female aspects. It is also known as the Egyptian cross of life.

I especially love the part about Jealous!!

cheers

cdmon said...

Dave8,

A little off subject but...

I am curious what your take is on PEAR research being done by Dr. Jahn at Princeton University?

Cheers

Anonymous said...

something u shock u atheist, this isn't a new movement started years ago...A fool have said in his heart that there is no God...this was written YEARS ago...Like in the days of Noah many will not believe but once again God will reveal his mighty power.

south2003 said...

Anonymous said: "A fool have said in his heart that there is no God..."

And your bible warns you not to call anyone a fool...you'll be in danger of hell fire. Ahh but you loosely toss out empty threats about burning...watch your back! If you believe your buybull to be in fact the word of a god, then you need to follow the letter.

Anonymous said: "oh an sex is given to man by God but again it has its place and outside Gods place there's always conflict ...1man 1woman...not like sheep or dogs who got no choice we're men we can choose"

Anonymous, you are a suspect. Church folks are the most sexually repressed and undercover sex addicts I have ever met. The reason is they try so hard to hide their nature to point that it’s laughable.

Anonymous said: "Like in the days of Noah many will not believe but once again God will reveal his mighty power."

I hope that when you get off that ark, you'll be greeted by the stench of your family and friend’s rotten corpse. According to the Noah's Ark story, only 8 made it in. Don’t forget to take a sheep with you.

cdmon said...

Anonymous said: "something u shock u atheist, this isn't a new movement started years ago..."

First off I am not an athiest... I am a Pagan. But I certainly agree with athiests on matters of xianity.

And one thing can be said about the xian movement, and THE ONLY reason it has sustained for the past 2 millenia... Boils down to one very simple statement...
So listen very closely... There's a sucker born every minute. You just happen to be one of them.

Anonymous said: "A fool have said in his heart that there is no God...this was written YEARS ago..."

Many things were written years ago, doesn't necessarily make what was written true. Unless you can show me a document that was written by the jeez himself, under his own pen, I don't put much stock in it. Even if the buy bull were inspired by gawd. It fails because the words were filtered through the finite mind of men prior to being commited to the scrolls.

Anonymous said: "Like in the days of Noah many will not believe but once again God will reveal his mighty power."

We're waiting....Yawn!!

So anonymous, the burden of proof is still upon you to prove your allegations that your gawd will show his mighty power. Do you realize how 2nd grade that sounds?
Kind of like a children's action cartoon.

Don't you realize if that were true don't you think we would have seen any conclusive and empircal evidence of this for the past 2000 years?

Your gawd has been awfully quiet lately, otherwise you would not have to resort to blind faith (pretending) in order to believe he exists.

I have a question for you anonymous... Do you hate your parents or your family?

Luke 14:26 If any [man] come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.

So according to this you cannot be a true follower of the jeez unless you hate your parents and family. Well, anonymous I am awaiting your answer...

I find it so amazing how you all state that your gawd is a loving gawd and your jeez demands that you hate your family in order to follow him. He taught hatred and intolerance. And I see you guys spewing it all the time. And you guys have the balls to say you serve a loving gawd? GET REAL!!!

south2003 said: "Anonymous, you are a suspect. Church folks are the most sexually repressed and undercover sex addicts I have ever met. The reason is they try so hard to hide their nature to point that it’s laughable."

This is true and HAS been proven. All one needs to do is look at the plethora of articles on this site about priests, pastors and other clergy being charged for their molestation of innocent children or for seducing members of their flock. And many are getting away with it as their churches sweep it under the carpet as not to bring reproach upon mother church... These so-called men of gawd have violated the sacred trust as so-called spiritual leaders.

These incidents were copied from newspaper articles from around the world. And happen very often. Proof enough that xians are sexually repressed... and many are closet case homosexuals and pedophiles. So tell me where do you fit in?

So far I see far more evidence that proves your gawd DOES NOT change peoples lives... except for possibly making them MORE perverted and self righteous.

You're starting to bore me.

cheers

cdmon said...

ps. The question, Where do you fit in? Was meant for anonymous.

Sorry if that causes any confusion.

cheers

Anonymous is stupid... said...

I don't know about you guys, but reading this whole thing left me in hysterical laughter. It really does make me wonder, how in this day and age there are still primitive shit head losers like 'Anonymous' that can believe this so called religion. One would think that the human race has come further than that, they really are uneducated pawns. EVERYTHING anonymous has said, has had absolutely no evidence to support it. I love that about christians, the way they can just accept something like the bible because it was supposedly written by some one who live around the same time that Jesus did. What makes what they say true?

And with the homosexual thing, you homophobic loser fuck. Sounds like Priest Johns called you to confession one too many times. The homosexual gene has been PROVEN, being christain and all the words PROVEN or PROOF probably mean jack shit to you, but in this case it means you are wrong. Everything you say is wrong. And don't ever try to tell me anything about myself, I have a hard heart, I'm bitter? Go eat a dong you loser, you wouldn't know the first thing about me, or anyone else on here.

And cdmon, you're a smart dude, I enjoyed reading your comments, I don't think there was anything he said that you didn't address and prove wrong. Good work ;)

John said...

Ya'll seem pretty intellegent. Look at just the past 100 years, all the change that has taken place compared tp the thousands of years before. Everything is getting faster and faster. For what?

in the making said...

i'm a christian wondering about my faith as well. after reading your account, i would like to ask if you did experience God in your walk with Him when you were a Christian, and whether you did receive Him into your life as Lord and Saviour. not trying to attack or disagree, but just questions i have. cheers.

Anonymous said...

Walk with God!!! Just what is a walk with God???? How can one walk with God??? If God is invisible how do you know which way he's walking???? How do you keep from bumping into the invisible God????

If fundies could only see how freaking pathetic their mind games are...totally stupid!!!!

boomSLANG said...

Fundonymous: "i'm a christian wondering about my faith as well."

Hmmm..you're wondering about you're faith, but let me guess, you're not wondering if you worship the correct God, right? Yes, you take your Jesus' existance on "Faith", but you somehow "know" you worship the right God. Just to be safe, you should be going to THOUSANDS of different churches weekly---one for every type/sect/denomination.

Fundonymous: "i would like to ask if you did experience God in your walk with Him when you were a Christian."

And I would like to ask---how do you "walk" with a non-material/non-physical entity? Please explain.

Fundonymous(asking): "and whether you did receive Him into your life as Lord and Saviour."

Yes, we "received" biblegod--the same way we "received" Santa Claus when we were kids, only, we grew up and now think like reasonable adults. Give it a try, won't you?

Fundonymous: "not trying to attack or disagree, but just questions i have."

You're guilty of both by association---this is an EX-christian website. If you want to "win" us back, provide evidence for a deity, then provide evidence that THAT deity is "Jesus". In other words, provide evidence that your belief is anything more than just that---a "BELIEF".

Waiting.

Anonymous said...

Science and the rules of science are relative to only the rules we were given of what we know. We know about gravity, we know about natural elements, we know about energy, and we know about space. Scientists use these rules to debunk any thoughts of anything beyond what they already know. This within itself seems pretty stupid. Why? Where did gravity get it's rules? What tells gravity how to work? What programmed its rules? They say matter is created from energy originating back to the big boom, but where did energy itself originate from? What told energy how to work and the rules it must follow? What exists beyond the reaches of space itself and within what did the big boom itself exist within? If the big boom created existence, then what lay before existence?

Simple. It is eternal. The rules of Science itself have no definable origin. Our human minds do not comprehend any true answers. Scientists think they comprehend by utilizing science's rules, but in the end, they actually know very little. They were given , without any definable origin, a set of rules to play by. In the end it kind of sounds like science works by undefinable magic, huh? Very ironic. For every scientific rule it seems there must exist an anti-rule to create it.

No matter how much we discover, it's only a small, easy-to-understand fraction of a concept that is beyond our ability to comprehend.

Jim Arvo said...

No-name said "Scientists use these rules to debunk any thoughts of anything beyond what they already know."

That is patently false. Science can only speak to what is objectively observable and testable. If something cannot be observed (e.g. some supernatural world), then science can neither appeal to it nor "debunk" it. It is simply not within the ken of scientific discourse (except, perhaps, as a tentative hypothesis, such as the idea of multiple causally disjoint universes).

No-name continues "This within itself seems pretty stupid."

I agree that it's a stupid characterization of science.

No-name: "What tells gravity how to work? What programmed its rules? They say matter is created from energy originating back to the big boom, but where did energy itself originate from? What told energy how to work and the rules it must follow? What exists beyond the reaches of space itself and within what did the big boom itself exist within? If the big boom created existence, then what lay before existence?"

While this is not strictly true, let's just say that none of these questions have any scientific explanation as yet. In other words, I'll reply to each of your questions with "I don't know". Just because I don't know it does not mean that you do. In fact, I posit that you are completely clueless. If you disagree, I look forward to hearing your lucid explanations, along with how you arrived at them.

No-name: "Scientists think they comprehend by utilizing science's rules, but in the end, they actually know very little. They were given , without any definable origin, a set of rules to play by. In the end it kind of sounds like science works by undefinable magic, huh? Very ironic."

Science operates on induction from observation. It has been the most spectacularly successful endeavor ever undertaken by humans. Is it perfect? Of course not. But at least it is generally self-correcting. This alone makes it infinitely more useful than religion.

No-name: "For every scientific rule it seems there must exist an anti-rule to create it."

Science does not purport to explain metaphysics, as it would be nothing but blue-sky conjecture without any possibility of confirmation or refutation. Religionists, on the other hand, continually embroider enormous and fantastic just-so stories that are completely unfounded and untestable.

No-name: "No matter how much we discover, it's only a small, easy-to-understand fraction of a concept that is beyond our ability to comprehend."

You do not know this. Nobody does.

boomSLANG said...

Anony: They say matter is created from energy originating back to the big boom

Big "boom"??? lol! Are you callin' me fat?? = /

Anonymous said...

Hey everybody, I didn't read the whole list of comments here. I only needed to read a few to get the general jist of it.
Basically anonymous I hate you. At the end of the day we all have a personal choice, almost wholly based upon external stimuli. What you choose to believe or disbelieve is based on the interaction between your genetic disposition I.e intelligence, and the external factors that you face throughout life. Hence born again christians, fallen christians, atheists turned christians etc. So... what about these people who are born, and live in a vegetative state througout the duration of thier lives. Could you imagine them finding god? They weren't even given a choice, this so called free-will that has become the safety net of christianity.

I personally find it difficult to believe in a god, but I will say that the basic moral guidelines of christianity are a good thing.

We cannot know our true capacity, whilst bound by falseity.

The LTG.

AthestToothFairy said...

Anonymous wrote:
"They say matter is created from energy originating back to the big boom, but where did energy itself originate from?"
---
Hey Anon,

Oh gosh, I never thought about this before.
Surely this new revelation of yours must mean your god created the energy.

How could I have been so blind not to realize that something a million times more complex than energy itself, must have created it.

Oh gosh, now I have to stop my mind from wondering what created the much more complex god being instead.
What a quandry you've handed my soul

IDIOT!!

ATF

Anonymous said...

"Those born with ambiguous genitalia have many medical tests for the doctors to determine which sex they should be assigned. Doctors then recommend early surgery to make the child look physically like the sex assigned to them."


Pretty big words for a person who doesn't even know how to spell.
But regardless, isn't it amazing how the person with the double genitalia doesn't get to decide what gender to live with?

That's Christianity for you. They treat you as if you had a lobotomy and couldn't think or decide.

twincats said...

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