My spirit is still reaching

Sent in by Gloria

Having dismissed the former fairy tale

Now standing on my own

I find myself searching still

For a system of belief

Somewhere to direct my spirit

In connection with others

With souls of compassion, understanding,

Acceptance, and good will.

What I got from religion before

Was not the answers

To life's tough questions

Nor hope for eternal life,

I received connection, direction

For love and giving

Until the rules and condemnation

And exclusion of

So many good souls

Pushed me away.

It became harder and harder

To find a like-minded

"Christian" because I found

that I am not one at all.

But I do still have a need

To connect somewhere

Beyond myself

With mankind and life

And death and

Something universal,

Something much greater

Than myself.

And the Bible holds

No answers for me,

The church has grown cold,

Yet my spirit is still reaching

For me to find something

To give it direction

Beyond my own life

Again.

27 comments:

Stephen B said...

Gloria describes my experience exactly. Thank you Gloria.

Laura said...

Thank you Gloria! This is exactly how I feel also. I still want that "group" feeling, that comfort that comes from "belonging" somewhere.

Cousin Ricky said...

I hear ya!

That’s the one thing i miss about religion—the sense of community.

skeptic said...

Thanks for this. While I usually felt distant from the community and warmth at Christian churches--I tried to connect with it, but knew, deep down, that I didn't buy into the Christian beliefs--I, too, feel this desire for a cosmic belonging. My thought is that we are all, actually, connected, but our strong sense of separateness--which Christianity strongly reinforces--prevents us from being aware of it.

Gia said...

Try meetup.com. There are so many non-religious groups that get together. I go to a freethinkiners group where I live in So Cal.
If there isn't a group in your area, it's free to start one.

Look at ffrf.org. Subscribe to their newspaper. You'll love reading that and may pick up on a freethinkers community near you.

On Yahoo.com, there are email groups. Look there. If there isn't anything start one. Then everyone can plan to do things together.

There is really a lot out there if you look.

We have all been trained to be on our knees praying. Well, it's time to get off our knees and make our lives what we want them to be.

Complaining and hoping will get us nowhere. Do something. Make changes. Start a community. There are others out there in your area who feel exactly like you do. You can do it! And once you've done it you will see the rewards of making a difference does for the world, your world.

Anonymous said...

Try meetup.com. There are so many non-religious groups that get together. I go to a freethinkiners group where I live in So Cal.
If there isn't a group in your area, it's free to start one.


Great idea, except that it isn't free to start one. It cost $72/6 months or $19/month.

Perhaps you think it's free because your organizer doesn't mind dishing out the money.

Anonymous said...

Complaining and hoping will get us nowhere. Do something. Make changes. Start a community. There are others out there in your area who feel exactly like you do.

Yes, doing something is much better than doing nothing. However, in my experience, most free thinkers who go to those groups are lifetime atheists who have a hard time understanding an ex-Christian who still longs for connection. Much like the lifetime atheists on this blog ;-)

But it is better than nothing.

Natedog said...

My family joined a community pool which helps during the summer months, and does provide a sense of community. They have work days, and movie nights which provide a sense of belonging without religion. I don't have to interact with people too much since I am an introvert, but can still feel accepted by others.

Rich said...

For Lorena,
My experience meeting atheists for the last 6 years does not jibe with what you wrote. True all the atheists I met lived in California so you might have to factor that in. What I experienced was a broad range of people. Some wounded by a religion and trying to recover, but many who spent a lot of time researching and learning about religion (principally Christianity) and therefore were quite knowledgeable about exactly what they were rejecting and the reasons why. I say meet freethinkers and atheists with an open mind and you may be surprised that much of the stupid propaganda about us is manufactured lies to keep believers in the fold. You don't need religion to lead a happy and fulfilled life. That is rubbish.

Anonymous said...

Rich,

Please note that I qualified my statement. I spoke of individuals who've never been religious.

Obviously, whatever I wrote does not jive with the people you know. Here, in Canada, we have lots of people who've never been exposed to religion. And note that I never said they were bad, or mean, or difficult to get along with.

All I said was that they HAVE A HARD TIME UNDERSTANDING AN EX-CHRISTIAN WHO IS STILL LOOKING FOR CONNECTION.

But I knew I would be misunderstood. It is quite common on this blog. Because some just can't understand the heart of an ex-Christian: the excruciating task of leaving the faith. They expect a person to overnight leave the church and become a hard-core atheist. Very little respect is shown for THE PROCESS of de-conversion which takes time and is often painful.

xrayman said...

I find my sense of community and belonging at my workplace. I work directly and indirectly with about 50 people whom I spend a considerable amout of time. So far, as an added bonus, I have discovered six other atheists hiding within, besides myself. Their has to be just a shitload of silent atheists hiding among us. Obviously if I can uncover six at my workplace without trying too hard, they are everywhere.

Rational said...

Now, I'm an atheist and don't go to any kind of church, myself, but since you miss the comeraderie of church, maybe you should check out some Unitarian Universalist gathering nearby.

At first, I thought it was something like Bahai, in that they basically believe that God is reflected in most major religions, but on Wikipedia, it has a breakdown of what Unitarian Universalists call themselves, and here it is:

Humanist - 54%
Agnostic - 33%
Earth-centered - 31%
Atheist - 18%
Buddhist - 16.5%
Christian - 13.1%
Pagan - 13.1%

So maybe that would be a good place for you. Note again that I have absolutely no experience with this group.

Rich said...

Maybe Lorena is right. Maybe atheists and freethinkers don't understand what Christians miss when they leave the herd. The fact is, if community to you means human contact, warmth, passion and understanding there are thousands of secular organizations that will provide that. For example, if you are concerned about the environment, how about joining the Sierra Club, or The Nature Conservancy, or the World Wildlife Fund. Mad about our furry little cousins? -- join PETA or your local SPCA. Go to your local volunteer placement organization and find a volunteer position in your community and meet other volunteers that share your passion. If Lorena means that exChristians are still trying to find some magical mystical supernatural spiritual connection, then no, freethinkers are not going to understand that and most will certainly not indulge this kind of thinking. Religious people are brainwashed into believing they cannot possibly exist without religion. Break out of that insidious lie and you can finally face the universe as a free person. Once you do, you may find there is no need to keep longing for what does not exist. You have not lost anything so you don't need to waste time searching. You just need some new secular friends.

Cousin Ricky said...

Rich wrote: “If Lorena means that exChristians are still trying to find some magical mystical supernatural spiritual connection, then no, freethinkers are not going to understand that and most will certainly not indulge this kind of thinking. Religious people are brainwashed into believing they cannot possibly exist without religion. Break out of that insidious lie and you can finally face the universe as a free person. Once you do, you may find there is no need to keep longing for what does not exist. You have not lost anything so you don't need to waste time searching. You just need some new secular friends.”

I’m not looking for anything mystical. However, we ex-Christians have left a community. I am not looking for a new religious community. But there is a loss, and speaking for myself only, i am inexperienced at finding or developing secular communities.

I naturally can’t understand what it’s like to be a life-long freethinker, but i have had discussions with my nephew, who never bought into the bullshit. I have been explaining the religious mind to him, from the point of view of someone who’s been there, but can see clearly with the benefit of hindsight; and i try to understand from him what it’s like never to have been there.

Shaggy Maniac said...

As an ex-Christian, I can relate to the feeling of loss that you express. For me the feeling is most associated with missing the experience of music in the context of worship. Even as I was doubting the subject of the music, there was something rather sublime at times when singing and listening, especially as part of a group. While I can fully appreciate that the effect of music is quite independent of the subject, it is an experience that I miss nonetheless. I still find myself signing familiar hymns and anthems that were a part of my religious past.

Anonymous said...

Rick,

There is no reason to wonder what I mean. It is very clear on my post.

I mean that it takes a while for the brain washing to completely leave a person, and at the beginning stages, it is completely normal that someone may be still looking for, even, mysticism.

It takes a while, Rick, it takes a long time. Now, if you can't understand that, I am glad you weren't around when I had just left the faith.

Like with any other loss, at the beginning the person is dizzy, disoriented, out of sorts. Then a hard-core atheist comes around to bang you over the head because--horrible--you still have god delusions.

Well, let people be. They will get there. It just takes a while. If you are normal, that is. Now, for those with a denying, macho-like attitude, it happens in an instant. But hey, we are all different.

Still Looking For More said...

Thank you, Gloria, for a beautiful expression of moving beyond Christianity.

I've only been visiting this site for a few weeks now for much the same reason that you express. I'm still looking for more.

I believe most of the people on this site are here for much the same reason. But there are a few who don't seem to recognize that we also have a spiritual nature. We all recognize the physical, mental, emotional, etc. But until they've contemplated eternity and have realized that this treadmill existence of life on earth can not be all there is, they will not appreciate why we continue to reach.

I came to this site hoping to find some positive discussion about what this life might really be about. But all too often some well-meaning (but misinformed) Christian jumps in to recruit us back and things turn negative.

I'd like to continue with your wonderful post and add a few thoughts of my own.

Perhaps we are all here by coincidence, and life is nothing more than randomness molded by Darwinian evolution. But I don't think so. When I considered the enormity of time and space and the incredible complexity of each cell of my body, I began to develop a very different perspective. So I ask why I am here now. Of course, I don't know. But I'm on a journey to explore the possibilities.

I was a practicing Baha’i for 7 years. I've attended Unitarian/Universalist services and functions. I've read Charles Templeton, Karen Armstrong, Deepak Chopra, and Thich Nhat Hahn, and I've studied the Christian doctrine. Many would have us believe that our purpose in this life is to develop our spiritual nature while contributing to an ever evolving civilization.

But I wonder what is different about this existence from what will follow. Some would say nothing follows. But that doesn't track with this life where we look back on the good times and bad and we look forward to more good times. So I believe there will be something that follows. Whatever it is, it seems like it will be free of the limits of our bodies and our five senses. So perhaps the purpose of this life is to enjoy the limits of our bodies and our five senses and not to be always trying to overcome them as seems to be the point of some of the Eastern religions.

Perhaps this life is little more than a cosmic vacation from understanding everything. Perhaps after this life, we’ll find that our minds are part of a corporate consciousness that will re-integrate with all other forms of intelligence. If so, then maybe this is a chance to experience the wonder of contemplating without fully knowing, of reaching for more and for others without knowing whether we’ll get there.

As you can probably tell, I make a living with computers and analysis rather than with words. And I haven’t read nearly as much as I like. So I’d really like to hear other ideas of what life might be about.

One last note—I live within a mile of New Life Church and am still trying (like most of us around here) to make sense of the killings of this past Sunday. While I cannot believe that the God of all creation would confine us to the box of Christianity, I now believe that trusting in Christianity is better than not trusting in anything at all. I know that most people on this site have experiences and beliefs much deeper and more profound than Christianity, and I’d like to count myself among you. Since this site is for Ex-Christians, it makes sense to use Christianity as a point of reference or a point of departure. But please don’t just bash Christians; most are simply too busy running on the treadmill to take the time to understand why they’re running at all. And many simply don’t have anything better to believe in.

Still Looking For More (Spiritualist)

Cousin Ricky said...

Still Looking For More wrote: “I believe most of the people on this site are here for much the same reason. But there are a few who don't seem to recognize that we also have a spiritual nature. We all recognize the physical, mental, emotional, etc. But until they've contemplated eternity and have realized that this treadmill existence of life on earth can not be all there is, they will not appreciate why we continue to reach.”

We do best not to speak for each other on this site. All we have in common is that we used to be Christian, and are no longer. For many of us, the same process that led us out of Christianity has also convinced us that we have no transcendent spirit. But one doesn’t have to retain a belief in dualism to feel a loss. (Losing the belief in dualism is itself a loss!) For me, the struggle is not satisfying that imaginary spirit, but finding (or building) some sort of social replacement for the community I left behind. Just as the lifelong unchurched may not appreciate or understand my struggle as an ex-Christian, I, as a non-dualist, may not understand yours.

How did you come “realize” that this life isn’t all there is? I don’t see the connection between contemplating eternity and the conclusion that we ourselves are eternal.

SLFM wrote: “But I wonder what is different about this existence from what will follow. Some would say nothing follows. But that doesn't track with this life where we look back on the good times and bad and we look forward to more good times. So I believe there will be something that follows.”

Nor do I understand your logic here; it sounds like wishful thinking to me.

SLFM wrote: “Perhaps we are all here by coincidence, and life is nothing more than randomness molded by Darwinian evolution.”

I’m glad that you understand the “molded” part. We get too much of the “randomness” straw man around here. But my perspective is that, although there is no intrinsic meaning in the evolutionary process, the process has given us the means—and the desire—to create meaning on our own. Many people who have had their meaning spoon-fed to them by their religions believe that god or eternity are the only sources of meaning. This is not true; as easily as a child can imagine a rabbit in a cloud formation, we can create whatever meanings we desire to our short lives.

boomSLANG said...

Still looking'...I believe most of the people on this site are here for much the same reason. But there are a few who don't seem to recognize that we also have a spiritual nature.

Until you qualify what you mean by "spiritual nature", in my view, what you have is nothing more than metaphysical lingo for "wishful thinking".

Still looking'...But until they've contemplated eternity and have realized that this treadmill existence of life on earth can not be all there is, they will not appreciate why we continue to reach.

FYI, I've "contemplated"
the concept of "eternity", and what I've come up with is that perpetual, unchanging, neverending self-awareness is way more likened to being on a "treadmill", than a finite existence. Call me "cRaZy".

BTW, your statement that this "existence of life on earth cannot be all there is"...is affirming the consequence, and your conclusion that, therefore, some people cannot "appreciate" why other people "continue to reach", is fallacious argumentation. I can surely appreciate why people "continue to reach". Whether I appreciate such a thing, or not, has no baring on whether or not this sought-after "thing" has a referent in reality.

Still looking'...I now believe that trusting in Christianity is better than not trusting in anything at all.

Good grief...'heard of a false dichotomy???? That's what you've got, there. How about trusting in one another; how about trusting in humanity?

Still Looking For More said...

cousin ricky,
You’re right; I shouldn’t try to speak for others on this site. I didn’t recognize that I had assumed another false dichotomy (as boomslang points out) that people either come here to reach for more or they come here to argue. I’m sure there are many other reasons for visiting this site, and I know that one reason certainly does not exclude participating in the others. But what made you think I was a dualist? One of my many reasons for leaving Christianity was recognizing the dualism as polytheism and not being willing to resolve the contradiction as Christians do. I’ll admit I don’t have a coherent answer for this issue, but I guess I’m somewhere between Deist and believing we create our own mud puddles (with a healthy dose of randomness and interference from other peoples mud puddles thrown in). And though I see your point that “Losing the belief in dualism is itself a loss,” I believe this emphasizes the point I was trying to make which is that leaving something without finding something else (or at least searching for something else) is often counterproductive. My youngest brother is Mormon with a beautiful family and a strong, supportive community. I have studied Mormonism and have even read the Book of Mormon from cover to cover. I don’t recognize any validity to Mormonism, but I will not try to convince him to leave his faith because it works for home, I have nothing better to offer, and I don’t see any harm in it.

The reason I believe something follows this life may very well be wishful thinking. Obviously, I don’t know anything for sure. And as I try to understand why I believe something follows I recognize many of the Christians arguments that I’m sure you've heard. And though I recognize the insignificance of this life relative to eternity, it still seems very short-sighted to believe this life is all there is. We seem to recognize the value of heroism to the point of giving ones life for a greater good. But if nothing follows then there is no greater good for the individual than prolonging this life. Again, I’m sure I’ve just assumed another false dichotomy, so feel free to provide alternatives.

Your notion that “we can create whatever meanings we desire to our short lives” is very intriguing. And it is certainly compelling when trying to make sense of “senseless” tragedies, etc. Many of us recognize this life as little more than a treadmill existence so we try to try to imagine a greater meaning, but that doesn’t mean there is any. I will flatly reject the Christian argument that I should believe in Jesus “just in case”. But perhaps that argument has some relevance here. What if there is something beyond this life. Then “creating whatever meaning we desire” may miss the real meaning. So I guess I’ll keep looking for more. That’s not to say I haven’t already found meaning in this life or even that if I get hit by a beer truck tomorrow I’ll die wondering “what else”. Perhaps then (if I may modify your notion) we perpetually create higher meanings for our lives while we live. Thanks!

Boomslang,
I guess what I mean by ‘spiritual nature’ is the drive to find significance beyond this life. Any conclusions we come to may be wishful thinking, but the drive seems quite real (though like so many other things is relative and may not be as strong in some of us as it is in others). I agree that “that perpetual, unchanging, neverending self-awareness is way more likened to being on a "treadmill", than a finite existence”. But that appears to be a false dichotomy in itself. First, ‘perpetual’ and ‘neverending’ appear to be redundant, and second, I don’t believe our self-awareness would be unchanging. Christians suggest that God is unchanging but refuse to recognize that after Noah God said He would never kill by flood again. That sounds like change to me, and if we have an eternal spirit, then I believe it is always learning (which I recognize is a contradiction to my own notion of “life as a cosmic holiday from understanding everything”). Perhaps then this life is more like a cosmic course in a never ending school.

Yes, I have heard of a false dichotomy, though I had to look it up to remember what it meant. And yes, I obviously have gotten sloppy in my logic. But it should be equally obvious that there is no false dichotomy in this situation because my own choice would be one of many implied options. I guess I need to be more specific and detailed about ‘trusting is Christianity’. What I mean is that many people trust in the precedence of Christianity and the education and concern of their Christian leaders to teach them to do what’s best for their immortal soul. If you don’t believe in an immortal soul or eternal spirit (which I equate but others may not), then Christianity doesn’t have much meaning. But if you do believe in an eternal spirit, then trusting Christianity for answers to the unknowable might be preferable to dropping out of society to search for the unknowable (not to imply another false dichotomy).

I’d like to know more about your notion of ‘trusting in humanity’. I don’t understand how that could have much bearing on an immortal soul. For what are you trusting in humanity (consistency, security, community, income, well-being)?

SLFM

boomSLANG said...

Still looking...I guess what I mean by ‘spiritual nature’ is the drive to find significance beyond this life. Any conclusions we come to may be wishful thinking, but the drive seems quite real.

By this statement, you are implying that there is no "significance" in this life, and thus, assuming that there must be some greater significance in a "next life", which again, this type of reasoning boils down to affirming the consequence. This is fallacious argumentation. The "drive" to look beyond this natural, temporal, existence, doesn't necessarily mean there is something beyond it. By the same token, for someone who isn't driven to look beyond it, it doesn't necessarily mean that there is not something beyond it. In other words, whether the "drive" is "real", or not, is irrelevant. What is relevant, is evidence---and so far, the only things that point to such a post-mortem existence, is hearsay-evidence, and yes, "wishful thinking".

Still looking...I agree that “that perpetual, unchanging, neverending self-awareness is way more likened to being on a "treadmill", than a finite existence”. But that appears to be a false dichotomy in itself.

Oh? And how is that? Existence exists.....it is either finite, or infinite....it cannot be both at the same time. Feel free to elaborate.

Still looking......‘perpetual’ and ‘neverending’ appear to be redundant

So? Whether I use one word to describe "never ending", or twenty words---that fact is not relevant to my conclusion, which was/is, that the analogy you used in an attempt to illustrate how our temporal earthly existence is like a "treadmill", is much better suited to the idea of a non-temporal, never-ending "spiritual" existence. Ironic.

Looking...and second, I don’t believe our self-awareness would be unchanging[in an infinite existence]

To my understanding, we either have self-awareness, or we don't. The only example I can come up with where it goes from one to the other, is when we sleep. Yet, I cannot reasonably conclude that "sleep" would be useful, necessary, or even possible, where time presumably doe NOT exist. Sleep is a temporal act; it is necessary because our physical bodies require it. Feel free to hypothesize on this dilemma, because I'm curious now.

Still Looking...if we have an eternal spirit, then I believe it is always learning

What you have is a contradiction. There can be no limits---in this case, on "knowledge"---in a presumably "limitless" existence. Remember, there IS no "time", thus, there is no past, present, or future..in which case, you can only already know all possible knowledge. Think about it.

Still looking...Perhaps then this life is more like a cosmic course in a never ending school.

Considering the fact that "never ending school" is, again, a contradiction---maybe the simpler explanation(see Occam's Razor) is that we eventually cease to exist, just like every other living thing in the natural universe. 'Ever considered that? I know it's a tough pill to swallow, but that doesn't mean it isn't true.

Still Looking...if you do believe in an eternal spirit, then trusting Christianity for answers to the unknowable might be preferable to dropping out of society to search for the unknowable.

Essentially, what you just described is taking the path of least resistance. In other words---laziness.

Still Looking...I’d like to know more about your notion of ‘trusting in humanity’. I don’t understand how that could have much bearing on an immortal soul.

Um, it doesn't have ANY bearing on it, nor should it. And BTW, whAT "immortal soul"?!?!? Again, you are affirming the consequence. As far as "humanity"---if religious folk would take just half of all the energy they spend on getting into "the next life", and spend it on their friends, family, etc..in other words, on the things that they KNOW they have in THIS life, I believe the world would be a better place. That's what I was alluding to.

Rich said...

Lorena wrote:
"It takes a while, Rick, it takes a long time. Now, if you can't understand that, I am glad you weren't around when I had just left the faith."

This is a good discussion and I need to explain that I come here because I am interested in learning what apostates like Lorena and Gloria experience, and what eventually led them out of their delusion. I do understand that atheists can come across as hard edged and impatient with leavers that just cannot seem to bring themselves all the way out. Yes, I follow you when you say it is a process and that for some the process goes fast and for others not so fast. Perhaps some people should even consider seeking professional help with a therapist that specializes in de-programming cult members (I wonder if such specialists are soft or hard edged). Or, perhaps there are self-help groups out there one can join. You need not struggle alone. Find someone to lean on temporarily if needs be, but in the end you must face the fact that leaving religion means you finally and completely have to stand on your own two feet. Hard to swallow if you have been coddled and spoon fed the lie that there is a creator god and that he/she made our vast swirling cosmos just for your personal benefit. We all hate the feeling that comes over us when we realize we've been duped. Maybe at some level this is why apostates cling to the hope of finding a transcendent meaning in their lives.

not the me you want me to be said...

Rich, you said:

"This is a good discussion and I need to explain that I come here because I am interested in learning what apostates like Lorena and Gloria experience, and what eventually led them out of their delusion."

I really miss "saving" people. Having this huge mission to save people from the world, from their addictions, from their depression, from Hell ultimately, but from themselves mostly. I don't know why I miss that. We were all working together to reach out and help people however we could, by fist meeting physical needs, such as groceries or ride sharing, and emotional needs such as friendship, forgiveness, acceptance. It was a great feeling to have the "answers" no matter what the problem, b/c in Christianity, the answer is ALWAYS the same. "Let go, let God."

I became a Christian on my own with a little influence from my family. My family professes Christianity, but only my grandmother and an aunt and uncle attended church regularly. I started asking my grandma to take me when I was about 5 or 6. When we moved away from her church, I would ask to go with friends, and eventually in high school I found my own church. My life was difficult, and being Christian made it easier because I didn't HAVE to understand (after all, god's ways are higher than our ways), it didn't HAVE to make sense, and even if my entire life sucked, there would be rewards awaiting me in heaven.

I grew up in a very small town, almost all white, and almost all Christian. It was growing up that made me finally question... going out into the world, making friends with gay people, atheists who were doing good in the community, buddhists, wiccans, etc. All of these GOOD people, living good lives, bettering the lives of the people around them, being good fathers, mothers, friends, neighbors, and my bible, my instruction manual for life, telling me that these people were going to hell. Well, that's just not freakin' fair. IT doesn't make sense. Wasn't the god in my bible supposed to be the most fair and just, better than any man? how could men have more compassion for each other than god did? I just couldn't live with it.

so, it started with me still believing in god but just not giving a shit if i was going to hell b/c i couldn't serve a god so cruel as to allow the creation of multitudes of people that he already knew were going to spend a eternity in hell. why allow us to all keep living, keep making babies knowing that most of them will never "get it" and will just be thrown away at the end of their life on earth.

but i kept reading, kept studying my bible. i've read it cover to cover several times, and the inconsistencies started to get to me, the way the bible contradicts itself, and how everyone who reads it takes something DIFFERENT away from it. so, i came to the conclusion that it's all just BS. men controlling other men by saying their words and ideas came from god. a way to explain things that science could not explain to them then.

and i miss the simplicity of it. life is much easier when the goal is to remain ignorant and all of your choices are already made for you.

not the me you want me to be said...

Guess I could have signed my name.

-gloria

Still Looking For More said...

boomslang,
Thanks very much for your explanations. I'm going to take some time to think about them and to see Occam's Razor. I agree with virtually everything you've said from recognizing that I am affirming the consequence to Christians taking the path of least resistance to believing that if we didn't spend so much time worrying about the next life we'd have more time for this life.

But I can't swallow that bitter pill yet. I've heard it said that because we can dream it there must be some truth to it. I recognize this is affirming the consequence but I can't come up with a better argument yet. I dream (call it wishful thinking) about having just some of the answers someday. And I don't expect it to happen in this lifetime. So, though I can imagine the monotony of perpetual, unchanging self-awareness, I will continue to dream of getting some answers someday. Surely, it needn't be all or nothing (oops, more affirming the consequence).

BTW, Christian laziness is what allows most of them to spend plenty of time with friends and family. And if your end is correct it really doesn't matter anyway.

Thanks again.

SLFM

boomSLANG said...

Still looking...And if your end is correct it really doesn't matter anyway.

To the contrary. If my "end is correct"; if, when we die, there is only the abyss.... then Christians, and all other people of religious faith, will have wasted precious time---time that could have been spent tending to the existence that we are sure, exists.

In any event, nice chattin' with ya.

freethinker05 said...

Still looking, you said that you've heard someone say, "if you can dream it, there must be some truth to it". Well, I hope whoever said that, is wrong, because I swear to god last night I dreamed that my dick was in the place were my big toe is supposed to be.

I ain't lying, it was a fucked up dream, and when I awoke this morning, I quickly looked down at my foot.

I have stupid dreams all the time like this. I just hope to shout something like this ever comes true, Sheesh, Peace, Roger...A/A

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