Considering Deism

Sent in by Another Dave

My father was raised in a Deist household with fervent views against organized religion. When my Dad met my mother he started attending her evangelical church and became a devout believer. My cousins on my Dad’s side always made fun of me because of my devout Christian beliefs. I hated to be around them but on the other hand it felt good to be persecuted for my beliefs.

To make things worse, my younger sister became very chummy with my cousins and adopted their hatred of religion. Of course, she still went to church and pretended to believe. She sometimes made fun of my devotion to Christianity. When she started college though, she started hanging out with some secular humanists and her attacks became more constant.

I used to happily think about the shock my sister and cousins would experience when they died and found out that Christianity was true after all. Then they would suffer for their rejection of the truth and their persecution of me.

After Thanksgiving dinner at my Dad’s parents’ house - my mother grudgingly agreed to have dinner at their house every other year – my cousins once again started picking on me. One said out loud for my benefit that the Christian religion was founded on an act of fornication. Mary and Joseph fooled around and then insisted that it was God’s child to get out of trouble. I was furious.

A few days later, I told a good friend of mine who was studying to be a pastor about this. He was very interested in studying the history of the Bible. He told me that my cousins were completely wrong. In fact, he said the virgin birth was first mentioned by Matthew. He was trying to prove to the Jews that Jesus was in fact their promised Messiah. So, he went to the OT to find prophecies relating to the promised Messiah and then made it seem that Jesus had fulfilled those prophecies. Matthew used a Greek translation of the OT, which mentioned a virgin giving birth to the Messiah. The original Hebrew actually said young woman.

(Isaiah 7:14 (Contemporary English Version)

14But the LORD will still give you proof. A virgin [a] is pregnant; she will have a son and will name him Immanuel. [b]

Footnotes:

Isaiah 7:14 virgin: Or "young woman." In this context the difficult Hebrew word did not imply a virgin birth. However, in the Greek translation made about 200 (B.C. )and used by the early Christians, the word parthenos had a double meaning. While the translator took it to mean "young woman," Matthew understood it to mean "virgin" and quoted the passage (Matthew 1.23) because it was the appropriate description of Mary, the mother of Jesus.)


I was really shocked by his candor because he was a very devout Christian. He then made some comment about Matthew doing the wrong thing for the right reason. I was confused and asked if that meant the virgin birth never occurred. My friend responded that Mary gave birth to God’s son. The actual circumstances were not relevant.

I then asked why church officials and Bible scholars who are aware of this mistranslation did not make it openly known to all believers (the above footnote is an exception). He replied that some people may not have enough faith to withstand the knowledge that some aspects of the Gospels were fabricated. I said then that the Bible must not be 100% the word of God. My friend replied that yes it is because God guided Matthew to write what he wrote.

Well, my faith was not strong enough to withstand this fabrication. I found it troubling that a major part of Christian belief was a shoddy attempt to convince Jews that Jesus fulfilled OT prophecy when in fact he had not. What else was a fabrication? I had always ignored the obvious contradictions in the Gospels and the Epistles (especially Paul saying you are saved by faith alone and good works don’t count and Peter saying faith without good works is useless) but now I openly questioned.

In my anger, I approached my parents without any thought of consequences. My mother and I got into a raging argument but my Dad remained quiet. That night he came to visit me and told me he had lost his faith several years before but that he pretended to believe for the sake of keeping the family together. He and my mother separated a few days later. My sister and I are also estranged from my mother because she chose her religion over us.

I have explored Deism a little but I mostly don’t bother with religion anymore.

33 comments:

Anonymous said...

Sorry to hear that you experienced the sarcasm of your cousin's smart-ass remarks when all of you got together. Unfortunately, unbelievers can be as rude as the Christians in their obnoxious, overbearing manner that they are right in their irrational belief system. It's also sad but not uncommon that your mother has chosen to distance herself from her own children over her Christian beliefs. Just another example of how Christianity really doesn't bring people together once some of them decide to use evidence and not feeling to prove their beliefs. Hang in there.

infidel666 said...

Hey Dave,
Sorry to hear your mother chose an invisible, imaginary friend over her own family.(very sad)
Unfortunately that is just one of the ugly twists in a brainwashing religion. She destroyed her family life for nothing.At least you had the smarts to realize something was very wrong before you became as far gone as your mother.

huesnlight said...

holy crap. i'm really sorry to hear that. i never really knew my father, but to have a mother choose her religion over her family and marriage is definitely disheartening. best wishes.

Anonymous said...

I was raised in a Deist household and have fervent views against organized religion. When I started attending a so-called evangelical truth church and became a devout believer. a lot of people always made fun of me because of my devout beliefs. I hated to be around them but on the other hand it was alright to be persecuted for my beliefs, really even today I could care less what people think of me or my beliefs, I really don't know why I should even be concerned about it. They did percecute Christ, and had Him murdered, we are all a breath away from death, so whats the big deal?

I do rely on the living God whom is the saviour of all mankind period. "especially them that believe" But not exclusivley them that believe. "He says He is the saviour of "all".
I believe what He says!

celestials1938@MSN.COM

boomSLANG said...

I do rely on the living God whom is the saviour of all mankind period. "especially them that believe" But not exclusivley them that believe. "He says He is the saviour of "all".
I believe what He says!


.......::yawn::.......

The Celestial Energizer Bunny™......stillllll goingggg.

Dave said...

celestials1938@MSN.COM

You missed the point of what I was saying. The point was not that my relatives made fun of me. It was that the virgin birth was a fabrication. Go to biblegateway.com and type virgin in the search. You will find no mention of Jesus being born to a virgin other than in Matthew and Luke. Neither Peter nor Paul or other contemporaries of Jesus mentioned this. It was made up about 200 years later. If it had happened don't you think everyone would have been talking about it?

Bentley said...

Considering that a God can make the entire universe in just six days including over 125 billion galaxies that we have no way of communicating to.

What would you do, say if you were God?

Let's see, if you were God and the two people that you put in charge of grooming the garden of Eden and they were running around naked and having a great time, since that was their sole purpose...to have fun and keep the garden dressed up.

Would you be stupid enough or evil enough to put a snare in the garden to catch them doing something that you told them not to do?

And if you caught them disobeying you would you send eternal torment for all mankind to answer to?

Would you a God, wait four thousand years, as many thousands upon thousands who have lived and lost their place in Heaven because you haven't thought up or devised a good enough plan that people would need a endless amount of faith to believe in a most grandiose, outlandish, most unbelievable, outside of common sense and reason virgin-birth story.

I mean, if you God, can create the entire universe in just six days with billions of Suns that shine light with thousands of degrees hot, and you cannot come up with a more believable way of being forgiven for things that the original innocent people that(you God) planned all along and knows all things past future and present.

Can a God be that stupid?

Is the Bible God a mentally insane retard?

Are we supposed to be as stupid and ignorant as this God, and call ourselves honorable christians and a follower of God?


" He then made some comment about Matthew doing the wrong thing for the right reason."

The Bible writters had an agenda, to control, to sway, to influence, to deceive, to instill needless fear in the ignorant masses to make them conform to the church and to swindle them out of their possessions, it's still going just as strong today if not even more strong, people have more possessions and money than ever in history.

If preachers can convence people that they are getting something, a reward later on, then so what if none of it is true, they would have aleast made someone think that they were getting a reward while they get their monetary reward now.

Religions and beliefs = deception, slight, falsehoods and lies.


Dave, welcome to common sense, reason and truth.

jfraysse said...

Another Dave: You are right not to bother with religion. What happened to you really sucks, but be glad you got out. You were strong enough to leave and in this you should take solace. Continue to be true to yourself and I promise you, it will get better. Hang in there, man!

All the Best, John Fraysse

SpaceMonk said...

Hi Dave,

I was going to say your deconversion was a 'Xmas miracle' ;), ie. the virgin birth being behind it and all, but it wasn't a happy ending for you...

I sort of know how you must feel.
I can't understand how my parents can still worship the god they believe is going to burn their son for eternity.
They really would choose god over family if I backed them into a corner on it.
I don't get it.

Anonymous said...

Get "Evidence Demanding a Verdict" by Josh MacDowell - A close unbiased look at the Bible, and how we got it should convince you that it is legit.

As for contradictions - Paul said you are saved by faith not works.
James said that faith without works is dead faith. Its not a contradiction - the type of faith that doesn't have works is not a saving faith, but a counterfeit. If you look at Paul's life he did many good works.

I'm sorry your mother had to seperate with your dad over an issue of faith - she wasn't doing what the Bible teaches, rather doing her own thing. The Bible teaches not to get married to an unbeliever in the first place - but it does explicitly state to stay with an unbelieving spouse if you are married.

I've only known Jehovah's Witnesses to seperate like this and try and justify themselves over it (whether its their official way or not, I don't really know)

PS. I'm not a Christian because I grew up in it, I did the Sunday school thing, then chucked it all in. Became a Deist of sorts (real fruit salad mix of ideas). Then found that the God of the Bible is real - so I'm not a disciple of Jesus for utility sake, to feel better, or to impress anyone: I just know these things to be true.

Warnepiece said...

To the Anonymous poster above;

SO MANY CHRISTIANS...

SO FEW LIONS.

Harlequin said...

Quite how anyone is convinced by dear old Josh, other than someone programmed from birth (which Anonymous was) is beyond my limited comprehension...

for an eye bleedingly bad time

http://www.josh.org/apologetics/

It would be amusing if some many people didn't live and die by this tripe!

jim earl said...

PS. I'm not a Christian because I grew up in it, I did the Sunday school thing, then chucked it all in. Became a Deist of sorts (real fruit salad mix of ideas). Then found that the God of the Bible is real - so I'm not a disciple of Jesus for utility sake, to feel better, or to impress anyone: I just know these things to be true.

To the non-signer of the above: No, you just believe these things to be true. Please share the evidence you have that you could KNOW they are true. I'd bet you have NONE. It's called BLIND FAITH for a reason.

To Celestials:

You say you believe what he says. What you really mean is you believe what the writers of the bible say he says. Get it?

To Dave:

Sorry you had to suffer in order to find the truth. But you will find that the truth is worth the suffering. Nothing is better than being free of religion. Welcome to the real world.

As for anyone choosing religion over real flesh and blood, I can say that I can understand that better than most. My spouse has told me that if I write anymore letters to the editor of our local paper, she would leave me. I may test her one day and see. Stay tuned for more.

Don O'Connor said...

Glad to hear that you are finally free of that garbage. Religion demands absolute blind faith in doctrinal orthodoxy at the expense of reason and mankind's better nature. Maybe some day your mother will see that and will love you again. If not, I am sorry, but this experience will serve to teach you, no doubt, firsthand the barbarity thinly veiled as morality that religion pushes upon people.

Stay strong!

Dave said...

Anonymous,

"Then found that the God of the Bible is real"

First, how exactly did you find that the God of the Bible is real?

If the God of the Bible is real, we must conclude that the Bible is in fact his creation. If it is then why all the fabrications.

The virgin birth never happened. The Christmas story never happened. Matthew told us that Jesus was born in Bethlehem because his parents had to go there to do a Roman census. This was to fulfill an OT prophecy that the messiah would be born in Bethlehem. Yet no record has been found of a census occuring anytime even close to when Jesus was born. The Romans were good record keepers. Also, Rome did not require people to travel to their ancestral towns to complete a census. It is a complete fabrication.

We are told in the Bible that King Herod killed thousands of young boys in an attempt to kill the newborn "King of the Jews." Yet Herod was actually dead for several years before Jesus was born. Again, a lie to attempt to fulfill an OT prophecy.

Now why would God allow his holy book to be filled with lies, contradictions (yes, you are saved by faith alone and faith without works is useless are contradictions no matter how you try to spin it) and fabrications? Why did God not send a messiah that actually fulfilled the prophecies he himself had previously given? Why did he have to have Matthew make things up a couple of hundred years later to convince rightly skeptical Jews? And why didn't he use a Gospel writer who actually knew Hebrew, so he could do the job of lying properly?

I lost my faith within days of learning that the virgin birth was a fabrication for a simple reason. Fabrications invalidate the Bible. If the Bible is not true, then the God of the Bible is not real. This is not to say no God(s) exist. It's possible. It just means that the Biblical God doesn't exist.

Jim Arvo said...

Hi Dave,

It should also be noted that Josephus is completely silent on the slaughter of the innocents. This would be inexplicable if the event actually took place, as Josephus detested Herod's cruelty and meticulously recorded his ghastly crimes. Interestingly, Josephus does record that Herod murdered his own two sons whom he perceived to pose a threat to his authority. This could have been the grain of truth behind Matthew's fanciful midrashic story.

Lorena said...

Dave,

It always gets me when a True Christian&trade resorts to hatred in the name of Jesus.

They proclaim love and yet their response is usually hate. For a mother to give up her family in the name of a loving god is beyond comprehension.

But then, their religion is beyond comprehension as well. Their "sweet Jesus" did say that he couldn't be followed if people were not willing to leave their father and mother.

What a testimony to a screwed up belief system.

I have considered Deism, too, but I prefer to have my very own belief system. That way I never have to comform to anyone's points of view. I have my own and I can change it anytime I please.

Be well.

P.S. Sorry for my previous partial post. It would be nice if it were deleted. txs.

Anonymous said...

Celestial
There are Messianic prophecies in the O/T about a coming savior but Jesus never fulfilled them. You need to do your homework on this. Is it better to believe or is it better to know the truth? Contrary to what you may have been told the whole world is not marching in lock step trying to disprove Christianity. Christianity has the best game in town if it were true, it is not. Christianity and all organized religions are rejected not because of animosity but because fantastic tales demand fantastic evidence which is lacking.

Mateo said...

Hey Anonymous...

Josh Mcdowell is very good at arguing. his position is that which seems rational, yet really isnt. Look at chapter one. All he discusses is the uniquenss of the bible.

Bottom line: unique is not a criterion of truth. all his scholar quotes do is that of a defense lawyers "character" cross examination of a particular witness. it establishes nothing for purposes of evaluation.

as for all the geological evidence he cites (ie talmud, etc), jesus isnt explicit in those writings. its a figure that could be, but it isnt defining. if it was a courtroom, there would be reasonable doubt.

but regardless of what mcdowell says (its a lot to refute, bc he has a lot of ink on paper), i can answer it with an overview: scriptural issues are apriori to historical ones. this is true bc even if historical evidence proves he existed, the theology has to back it up where it counts. so grant all his args for all i care, its a secondary issue.

the primary concern is that of jesus. he has to have david's blood (romans 1:3, acts 2:30. this is a reference to a covenant with david, that his seed will bring forth the temple of god in the flesh...) yet is born of a virgin. cool, but she has no relation to david (hint: joseph is. look at matthew 1 and luke 3)
either they had sex or they didnt. essentially, the only way for the prophesy to be true is if mary was related to david (bc if they had sex, the other prophesy in the OT about messiah from virgin isnt fulfilled). this is not true, as they come from different homes, and the fact is that only joseph is related.

if you somehow manage to escape that paradox, just look at the resurrection accounts in the 4 gospels. try to tell me what happens. its impossible. why? there are contradicting accounts, in terms of time of day, who was there, whether the tomb was opened or closed, what was said, etc.
the resurrection is the single most important event to christianity, and is the most inconsistent. wait a sec...if this is true then christ couldnt be savior. that makes me scared that all the theology i was taught was wrong. but 2 timothy 1:7 says "For God didn't give us a spirit of fear, but of power, love, and a sound mind"

if thats true, then i shouldnt be confused by the contradictions surrounding christs birth and resurrection. i should be empowered with the truth, and experience the love of christ as a result...

as you can see, doctrinal issues far outweigh historical backgrounds. mcdowell can argue all he wants though, but theology always trumps.

btw, he is wrong on a lot of things. there are several sites that have published refutations of his writings. take:

http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/jeff_lowder/jury/

but all that refutation is secondary to theological argumentation

Anonymous said...

My name is mateo. i am not the anon user that posted stuff before.

Hey [to that]Anonymous...

Josh Mcdowell is very good at arguing. his position is that which seems rational, yet really isnt. Look at chapter one. All he discusses is the uniquenss of the bible.
Bottom line: unique is not a criterion of truth. all his scholar quotes do is that of a defense lawyers "character" cross examination of a particular witness. it establishes nothing for purposes of evaluation.

as for all the geological evidence he cites (ie talmud, etc), jesus isnt explicit in those writings. its a figure that could be, but it isnt defining. if it was a courtroom, there would be reasonable doubt.

but regardless of what mcdowell says (its a lot to refute, bc he has a lot of ink on paper), i can answer it with an overview: scriptural issues are apriori to historical. this is true bc even if historical evidence proves he existed, the theology has to back it up where it counts. so grant all his args for all i care, its a secondary issue.

the primary concern is that of jesus. he has to have david's blood (romans 1:3, acts 2:30. this is a reference to a covenant with david, that his seed will bring forth the temple of god in the flesh...) yet is born of a virgin. cool, but she has no relation to david (hint: joseph is. look at matthew 1 and luke 3)
either they had sex or they didnt. essentially, the only way for the prophesy to be true is if mary was related to david (bc if they had sex, the other prophesy in the OT about messiah from virgin isnt fulfilled). this is not true, as they come from different homes, and the fact is that only joseph is related.

if you somehow manage to escape that paradox, just look at the resurrection accounts in the 4 gospels. try to tell me what happens. its impossible. why? there are contradicting accounts, in terms of time of day, who was there, whether the tomb was opened or closed, what was said, etc.
the resurrection is the single most important event to christianity, and is the most inconsistent. wait a sec...if this is true then christ couldnt be savior. that makes me scared that all the theology i was taught was wrong. but 2 timothy 1:7 says "For God didn't give us a spirit of fear, but of power, love, and a sound mind"

if thats true, then i shouldnt be confused by the contradictions surrounding christs birth and resurrection. i should be empowered with the truth, and experience the love of christ as a result...

as you can see, doctrinal issues far outweigh historical backgrounds. mcdowell can argue all he wants though, but theology always trumps.

btw, he is wrong on a lot of things. there are several sites that have published refutations of his writings. take:

http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/jeff_lowder/jury/

but all that refutation is secondary to theological argumentation

Anonymous said...

If I was her I wouldn't want to live my life around a bunch of pessimistic assholes either.

Don O'Connor said...

To the anonymous poster above. You would attempt to justify that woman's actions by lazily labeling without proof those of us who disagree with christian theology and fundamentalism? Perhaps that says more about you than it does us. Then again, chances are you have never actually studied the Bible with a view to learning the truth, or anything for that matter.
Is your foundation of belief so fragile that you can't but lash out in fear?

Anonymous said...

Hey,

Im not sure if I should even write this as I know this website isnt really meant for me-- I am a Christian. Sadly, I sometimes don't like to even say the word Christian, because I dont always like the company that comes with that word. What I mean is, there are so many people out there with so many conflicting beliefs and actions all claiming the same faith. What I would prefer to say to define my faith is that I am a follower of Jesus. It makes me sad that you have had such a tough situation with your family and Im sorry you have had to struggle through it for so long. As for the argument about Jesus' birth not being the immaculate conception, the only thing I can tell you is that I compliment you for looking into the word and seeking the truth. Its my belief that that is what God wants for us. But its not always easy, and i dont think you can find the right answers from one friend, or bloggers on the internet. I would just encourage you to keep seeking the truth, wherever that journey may lead. The Bible is a HUGE historical and theological thing to tackle and there are so many scholars and studies out there, not all of them accurate. I feel that Christianity is the truth, though it has been exploited by human beings throughout history. That is not Christ's fault-- that is not what He meant for it to become. He did not even come to start a religion. He came to start relationships-- to bring people to God and to show us the only love that is REALLY true-- true to the very core. and thats what i live for and try to show others, when i can. i mess up and i would not want people to base their faith in my life, because i would dissapoint so many people, but I know i am saved by Grace, and that is what the faith is all about. good luck in your journey and i hope its blessed with joys and challenges that make you grow-- I also hope that your family will be blessed and strengthened and will overcome this tough time. thanks for being so real.

Anonymous said...

to the 4:17pm anonymous, Thank you for your response. I believe those words were right from your heart. You are right we must search and seek God's word to find complete answers.

My friend I am praying for you and your family.

.:webmaster:. said...

Christianity [...] has been exploited by human beings throughout history. That is not Christ's fault-- that is not what He meant for it to become.

Matthew 16:18 And I say also unto thee [...] I will build my church...

I guess HE's not such a good mason.

Anonymous said...

The bible is Bullshit and Jesus was a friggin asshole.

Luke 19:27

no gods, no masters

Anonymous said...

Dear Another Dave,

For virgin birth (and other fabrications), I suggest you to read CHRIST CONSPIRACY (released 1999 by Acharya). For excerpts, just click www.truthbeknown.com/christ.htm
and you will find these sentences below;

HORUS OF EGYPT
Horus was born of the virgin Isis-Meri on December 25th in a cave/manger with his birth being announced by a star in the East and attended by three wise men.
At age 12, he was a child teacher in the Temple, and at 30, he was baptized, having disappeared for 18 years.
Horus was baptized in the river Eridanus or Iarutana (Jordan) by "Anup the Baptizer" ("John the Baptist"), who was decapitated.
He had 12 disciples, two of whom were his "witnesses" and were named "Anup" and "Aan" (the two "Johns").
He performed miracles, exorcised demons and raised El-Azarus ("El-Osiris"), from the dead.
Horus walked on water.
His personal epithet was "Iusa," the "ever-becoming son" of "Ptah," the "Father." He was thus called "Holy Child."
He delivered a "Sermon on the Mount" and his followers recounted the "Sayings of Iusa."

And read also SUNS OF GOD (released 2004 by Acharya). For excerpts, just click
www.truthbeknown.com/sunsofgod.htmand you will find these sentences below;

VIRGIN MOTHERS OF GODS AND HEROES
The list of pre-Christian gods, heroes, kings and queens who were said to have been born of a virgin includes the following:
Krishna
Buddha
Horus
Ra and Apis
Egyptian queen Hetshepsut
Persian "prophet" Zoroaster
Melchizedek, biblical High Priest and King of Salem
Persian king Cyrus
Plato, "the divine" and "son of Apollo"
Julius Caesar
Apollonius of Tyana, Greek sage
Taliesin, Merlin and Llew Llaw of the British Isles
Chinese philosophers Fohi and Lao-Kium (Fuxi and Lao-Zi)

CW said...

To: Celestials1938

You must not be too confident in your faith, because if you are, why are you hanging around on this website reading all these stories from ex-christians? Are you doubting what you believe, and that's why you come on here reading all these stories from ex-christians?

Don't you know that most christians would tell you to stay away from a site like this?

You must be having doubts about what you really believe so therefore that's why you come here, because deep down you know your faith and your christianity are nothing but lies.

CW said...

Celestials1938 Said:

<< I do rely on the living God whom is the saviour of all mankind period. "especially them that believe" But not exclusivley them that believe. "He says He is the saviour of "all".
I believe what He says >>

Really? Your God told you that? WOW!

Can you provide either an audio or video tape of your God saying that?

I look forward to your hard evidence. Damn, they may have to shut this site down once you produce this evidence!

Mick said...

To Webmaster ; Matthew 16:18 And I say also unto thee [...] I will build my church...

He is building His church, i am part of it and it is growing every day.

Check: www.trf.org.au for details.

Mick.

doh said...

I go and build my church for you.

And the length of it shall be three hundred cubits, the breadth of it fifty cubits, and the height of it thirty cubits, and I shall bring forth pairs of every sort of Christian, two by each denomination, two by their confession, two by witness, two by unclean Christian, and two by clean Christian, and two by hypocrite Christian.

And I shall build it out of thin air and it will be therfore invisible for all not to see, just like no one can see me now, so shall the walls of heaven be also. amen

CW said...

<< He is building His church, i am part of it and it is growing every day. >>

First of all Mick, are we supposed to be impressed by your comment?

Second, nobody is impressed with the number of people in your church. Just because your church is growing in numbers does not mean that all of those people are true christians.

90 percent of people who go to church are a bunch of hypocritical self-righteous assholes anyway, who are no better off than we are,and the only reason why most people go to church is so they won't feel so bad and guilty for the way they really live during the week.

Even when I was a christian, I was never impressed by how big a congregation was, and the number of people who got saved. I have found that 90 percent of people who come forward to get saved, are never truly converted.

Anytime someone gets saved, I think this in my mind, "Let's wait a few months and see if this person truly is saved. Let's watch the way they live, and see how long their conversion lasts. Let them prove they are truly saved."

Most of the time these poor fools go right back to the sinful lifestyle they were living before.

Your statements and your church do not impress me or any other agnostic or atheist on this website.

I find you comment to be very weak, and it presents no challenge.

Your church sucks, and is nothing but another stupid religious social club.

You christians crack me up with you stupid weak minded statements.

Royal Snow said...

Christians really bother me. They come to this site to be persucuted. Do they think that justifys thier silly messed up lives. Its sick to think that so many people dont even live thier lives. they are to busy worrying about the afterlife. It keeps me up at night.... not really fuck those idiots who follow blindly

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